Dr.Cheah posted on 8-2-2004 12:28 AM

Alternative medicine : what is the evidence?

Our dearest Health Minister, Dato' Chua Jui Meng today once again pledged his support for alternative medicines. Although I agree that western and traditional or complimentary practices are getting more intertwined as the days go by, there are certain weaknesses in the system that need to be rectified first. On one hand, mainstream medicine is tightly regulated and its practitioners appropriately trained and the other, unregulated and on many occasions untrained practitioners. We are talking about evidence based medicine, be it allopathic or traditional.

Modern medicine does not shy away from evidence. For instance, ginkgo biloba has now been recognised as an agent for improving peripheral circulation after extensive studies show benefit. There has been many others as well. These "traditional" agents are now part of the armamentarium of modern medicine. However, there are many others whose claims are totally unjustified backed by only a few biased testimonials. Most of those that make those claims do not have appropriate training in their field and are mainly salespersons.

What puzzles me is that in our demanding society, we often want the best in modern medicine but on the other hand would succumb to dubious claims of cure! When doctors do not practise according to guidelines, the public complains. But when a herbalist tells them that this herb does this and that, they accept!

I suggest that the Dato' Chua improve the regulations pertaining to alternative medicine before throwing his weight behind it. Have a council that registers and regulates the practises of traditional practitioners. Do not rebuke an association (MMA) that only intends to regulate and maintain the integrity of its members and keeping them away from the evils of direct selling.

ps. I decided to remove my statement on Cancer Care after visiting their website, i was rather satisfied that this was not an exploitation but another avenue in support of cancer patients especially the terminally ill ones. See for yourself at http://www.cacare.com

[ Last edited by Dr.Cheah on 8-2-2004 at 05:11 PM ]

PajerO posted on 6-2-2004 03:50 PM

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Dr.Cheah posted on 6-2-2004 06:59 PM

cellfood : fact or fiction

I think some people may be intrigued by claims of miraculaous cures and "super" substance that can remove all ills. Once again before drawing judgement, i decided to do a little research on my own regarding this product.

first and foremost, Everett Storey was instrumental in the development of the hydrogen bomb. His invention of fusing the hydrogen and oxygen atoms released so much energy that proved destructive. So his theory that the splitting of the molecule was also possible. But if you know physics, then it would also require a huge amount of energy equivalent to that needed to fuse it!!!. So our CELLFOOD guys have claimed that there is a secret substance that can do the job at a molecular level to release oxygen to body tissues.

First and foremost, my search of medline proved futile. ie no studies have been done to prove its claims.. If there is no proof, then how can they possibly claim that it can cure or the least correct whatever imbalances in our body??.. how on earth did they come to that conclusion

Even nuscience a producer of CELLFOOD wrote on their website and i quote "these statements have not been evaluated by the FDA. THis product is not intended to diagnose,treat, cure or prevent any diseases." That sums it up doesn't it??

Even so called scientific articles that were produced were questionable.. There is a study done by the sports department of the University of Pretoria to prove that cellfood improves the performances of marathon runners. HOwever, there was no analysis of data provided in the study. The conclusions were also vague and probably unscientific.

Once again we have been beset by unscrupulous "healers" preying on the vulnerabilities of our society's ill health for personal gains. SIGH!!:onf:

[ Last edited by Dr.Cheah on 6-2-2004 at 10:14 PM ]

mbhcsf posted on 6-2-2004 11:00 PM

salam and greetings

agreed!!!

Acong posted on 7-2-2004 09:12 AM

yeap! :D

amorist posted on 8-2-2004 12:59 AM

I agree with you, Dr! There needs to be proper regulations regarding the so-called "alternative medicines" because there are too many wild claims being made out there.

At the same time, I wish that MMA would take a greater interest in the research that has been undertaken for herbs, and encourage doctors to prescribe them where possible, instead of relying on chemicals.

Take echinacea, for example. There is a lot of evidence in support of echinacea being an effective remedy for common cold among adults. But how many doctors suggest it to their patients?

I believe that there is a tendency for MMA and the medical profession to support chemical products manufactured by pharmaceutical companies, and there appears to be little desire among medical practitioners to promote herbs.

chempaka_ku posted on 8-2-2004 04:55 PM

Yes, quite unhealthy development indeed especially those purporting miracle cures.  It's pretty sad to see some of my friends spend thousands of dollars believing in so-called miracle water, air purifiers etc, just because of convincing testimonials and good marketing.

mbhcsf posted on 9-2-2004 10:34 PM

current modern medicine

i think i always prefer the modern medicine way of treatment or intervention for

it is

1) evidence based refer NICE , Cochrane etc...
2) drs all over the world could shared the same databases containing  1001 article reviews.They also able to share or vent opinions about a particular type of treatments etc..

[ Last edited by mbhcsf on 9-2-2004 at 11:03 PM ]

syai_hanie posted on 9-2-2004 10:57 PM

I certainly have to agree on the topic...
While registered practitioners are being closely watched by the medical council, those traditional ones are free to prescribe anything they want without a lawsuit againts them if anyting were to go wrong.
But i do believe the council is trying (at least trying) to get traditional practioneres to register under medical council so their activities can be monitored.
It's definitely a great idea but the outcome is still not known. Anybody has an update?

mbhcsf posted on 9-2-2004 11:02 PM

Anybody has an update?

good question..where? the Lancet? NEJM? BMJ?

Dr.Cheah posted on 9-2-2004 11:32 PM

Regulation of traditional practitioners

Originally posted by syai_hanie at 2004-2-9 10:57 PM:
I certainly have to agree on the topic...
While registered practitioners are being closely watched by the medical council, those traditional ones are free to prescribe anything they want without a ...

Actually there is a body that registers traditional practitioners. Unfortunately it is not compulsory and therefore many do not.

I think the point is that the public needs to be more aware of such schemes that dupe susceptible persons into believing the efficacy of the product. In healthcare, there has to be evidence to prove that there is no harm done and the definite benefit from the medicine. It should no longer be acceptable for companies/traditional practitioners to claim benefit when there is no proof.

The Government should also be more strict when approving a drug for use in Malaysia. I do question certain procedures in new product registrations by the Badan pharmaceutikal kebangsaan. It is driven more by market forces than by the safety profile or efficacy of the medication. IN a recent report that was published in local dailies, alternative medicines contributes the most to new product registrations.

So let us be more vigilant. Dr Chua urged doctors to be more open minded. I think we are generally open minded but some things will need critical thinking beforehand.

syai_hanie posted on 10-2-2004 09:33 AM

Updates of local issues camni in MMA punye mag. but like dr cheah kata, tak compulsory, so siape ler nak register.

In the ideal situation, traditional medicine has to have proof that their mdicine/procedure is effective. But to have this proof, one would have to conduct clinical trial. And that of course takes time and hell lot of money. I don't think at the momment it is possible for our traditional practitioners to do such thing.
So in our goverment setting currently, how do we purpose them to proof traditional medicine works?

(last i heard UM was doing research on the daun pengaga. i'm sure other institute pun ada buat jugak. thumbs up for these people!)
(i've met the 'awal gamat' guy, prof what's his name. claims gamat works wonders. but tak tau ler..perhaps his is more for commercial purposes.)

enot03 posted on 10-2-2004 02:47 PM

Dr.Cheah,
Can i know your statement about CACare..because i'm their patient for almost 2 years..(breast cancer)..and i really believe  in alternative med.

Dr.Cheah posted on 11-2-2004 04:06 PM

Cancer Care

Originally posted by enot03 at 2004-2-10 02:47 PM:
Dr.Cheah,
Can i know your statement about CACare..because i'm their patient for almost 2 years..(breast cancer)..and i really believe  in alternative med.

I have no qualms about alternative therapy, but i think there ought to be regulations. These people can say and do what they like. Some without basis.

A visit to his website lately has seen a change.. He has brought in religion into the issue. But i was satisfied with the principles stated in their website. As a Christian myself, i do believe that sometimes miracles do happen in the right of circumstances. But the point is, it is more cruel to give false hope than no hope at all.

People with cancer are a vulnerable group. Because of this, there can be many people that will use this to exploit for financial returns. It is important to choose wisely. Because of paucity of research materials in alternative medicine, we cannot judge if it bears benefits or otherwise.

Ultimately, the decision lies with the patient him/herself.

I wish you continuing good health!

qhusyairie posted on 17-2-2004 11:37 PM

agree..and that's why it's called alternative medicine..
as an alternative for patient

but some of the practitioners do public advertisement illegally
they even claim that they can treat cancer!!!

more worse, some of them already construct a so call hospital for their patient..
they even train their own doctors..

this can be found in malacca..
i wonder, whut the local goverment l do..

whut do u think?

should alternative medicine management be included in medical school syllibus?

[ Last edited by qhusyairie on 17-2-2004 at 11:43 PM ]

cran posted on 20-3-2004 01:03 AM

"traditional and complementary medicine act" masih dalam proses penggubalan

not alternative because first line still medical doctor

Tok Pin posted on 30-3-2004 04:38 PM

Originally posted by qhusyairie at 2004-2-17 11:37 PM:
agree..and that's why it's called alternative medicine..
as an alternative for patient

but some of the practitioners do public advertisement illegally
they even claim that they can treat cancer!!!

They do advertisement illegally? Yer ker?:)
AIDS,CANCER + beberapa sakit berjaya di cured by alternative madicine. Tak sampai 1 bulan, OK!
Y? U don believe arr?


more worse, some of them already construct a so call hospital for their patient..
they even train their own doctors..

Worse?
Y?
Foer ur information they have World Congress for Complementary Medecine every year..
Jadi... Wot ur problem?....


this can be found in malacca..
i wonder, whut the local goverment l do..


Aiyaaaaa... That is College for Complementary Medecine la....


whut do u think?

should alternative medicine management be included in medical school syllibus?


Dun no...

Tuah posted on 10-7-2004 08:45 AM

Originally posted by PajerO at 6-2-2004 03:50 PM:
APA ITU CELLFOOD ?

        Produk unik ciptaan Everett Lafayett Storey,seorang ahli mikrobiologi dan ahli kimia, yang menggunakan formula proprietary daripada mineral koloid pekat bertenaga.

...


i dah cuba cellfood untuk kencing manis, tapi tak jadi pun. bacaan masih sama ...

sk8er posted on 19-7-2004 01:09 PM

tuah,
dah baper lama u amik Cellfood ni?

DugongKota posted on 19-8-2004 07:08 PM

Ada orang give me a book about Cell Food.  Belum baca lagi,, Lepas dah habis baca nanti boleh ler i share information here..

siti7677 posted on 8-10-2004 09:49 AM

cam bagus jer..cellfood nie...:pompom:

anis710 posted on 21-10-2004 03:02 PM

Emm

Hangatnya debat Alternative VS Modern Medicine

Actually masing2 ada kekuatan dan ada kelemahan. Sebab tu Dr Chua sebolehnya nak combine kekuatan ALternatif dan Mordern Medicine so kita dapat yg terbaik.

Probem is, many Modern Medicine practioner are too proud to open to alternative medicine. China practiced both modern and alternative for long-long time. Their health problem are not like US who have FDA and all the hi-tech medical discovery, but the health problem rising every year!!

People use to say the bad things about alternative medicine, but, There are many bad side of mordern medicine too... the list is too long to discuss it here. How many times we hear a cancer patient was told that he got only 3 month to live...and if this victim swollow that input without getting 2nd oppinion.. he/she will die in 1 month because of depression. How many time we heard cancer patients who the refer themselves to alternative medication and could live longer and healthier life... some even says they are cured!! Some people say false hope... but i put it as 'some hope' is better the blantly telling them 'hey, you are going to die in 3 mth!'

Clinical studies!! Do you know that studies is studies.. but how interprete these studies ia another issue. Drugs company are power full.. Vioxx which was recalled by the FDA (approved earlier by FDA) has hit US$2billion in sales!! Means that million of people already consume this dammm drugs before they pull it..  Back to the clinical study, Drugs companies is the biggest fund contributor to all US Univercities... they can easily manipulate the interpretation of each studies to their favour.

Emmm.. i think that should be enough for now. To me both are important, i ve seen and enjoy the positive result of modern and alternative medicine.. i will evaluate my choice... but dont ask me to take any drugs cos' i know there are huge choice in alternative medicine.

End

aminah posted on 27-10-2004 02:51 PM

Originally posted by anis710 at 21-10-2004 03:02 PM:
Emm

Hangatnya debat Alternative VS Modern Medicine

Actually masing2 ada kekuatan dan ada kelemahan. Sebab tu Dr Chua sebolehnya nak combine kekuatan ALternatif dan Mordern Medicine so kita da ...

yeah...i totally agreed with u....alternative medicine did give patient hope to live longer....

raslank posted on 8-11-2004 10:38 AM

dua2 baik

apa nak gaduh2...cellfood baik...ubat doktor pun baik.
mcm aku sendiri pun pernah sakit migrain teruk, pakai ubat doktor dah macam2, tak dapat settle jugak. Pakai Cellfood, alhamdullillah terus baik sampai sekarang. Tapi aku tak tolak ubat doktor. Kalau demam, masih juga pergi jumpa doktor dan ambil ubatnya. Yang penting badan sihat dan kita boleh hidup dengan selesa dan ceria.

Kadang2 aku tak faham kenapa ada orang marah sangat dengan ejen yang perkenalkan produk macam ni. Diorg niat baik nak tolong bagi sembuh pada pesakit( of course le buat keuntungan...kita membuat keuntungan dengan mengambil kesempatan di atas kekurangan/kesusahan orang lain..). Tapi kalau doktor nak potong kaki sebab kencing manis, (siap bayar lagi ribu2 dan bagi izin pula pada doktor utk potong kaki sendiri), dia tak marah pulak pada doktor sebab doktor nak potong kaki dia. Tapi ejen produk datang offer produk puluh atau ratus ringgit, buntang biji mata tahan marah, siap ada kata penipu.

Kes macam ni tak ramai tapi aku rasa sedih le sebab tak open minded.

"Hanya yang pernah mengalami sakit serius sahaja tahu nilai kesihatan dibandingkan dengan wang ringgit"

[ Last edited by DARSITA on 21-11-2004 at 11:55 AM ]

PowerGiler posted on 18-11-2004 04:49 PM

penyakit

you all tau ker penyakit datang dari mana....
dari Allah dia datang dan menyembuhkannya ialah dari Allah jua....

kalau korang kata makan rumput boleh sembuh, minum air kenceng boleh sembuh pon aku percaya!!...

betul kata anis, masing-masing ada kekuatan dan kelemahan, tiada yang perfect!! ....

pucuk pangkalnya ikhtiar dan usaha, atas ilmu yang kita tahu kita pilih yang terbaik untuk kita, soal nak memburuk burukkan perubatan lain, ITU NAMANYA TAK BER ETIKA!!....

so...timbang-timbangkanlah....

wassalam :)
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