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Author: WonBin

[MERGED] Apa Sebenarnya Terjadi Selepas Melaka Diserang Portugis ?

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Post time 27-1-2006 07:01 PM | Show all posts
Originally posted by SangSaka at 27-1-2006 02:56 PM

Apa yang berlaku selepas Portugis menewaskan Melaka ialah..........Memurtadkan penduduk Islam kepada Kristian dan berusaha menjadikan Melaka sebagai pusat penyebaran kristian di rantau timur, termasuk menjemput paderi terkenal, St. Francis Xavier.

...


Sori, hmmmmmmmm............lagi :hmm:

Kalau benar......dah tentu setengah Melayu Melaka-Muar-Pagoh blah blah (dah lupa) dah jadi Kristian kan? So, apa agaknya yang terjadi sebenarnya..??
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 Author| Post time 27-1-2006 07:32 PM | Show all posts
Itu hari saya ke melaka untuk berjumpa orang2 Portugis......saya sangkakan mereka ini amat cantik dan jelita seperti pelakon telinovela Mexico dan Venezuela. Bila sampai di sana, saya terperanjat mendapati mereka sebenarnya ialah seperti orang India !! Kulit sawo matang.

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Post time 27-1-2006 07:48 PM | Show all posts
Originally posted by WonBin at 27-1-2006 07:32 PM
Itu hari saya ke melaka untuk berjumpa orang2 Portugis......saya sangkakan mereka ini amat cantik dan jelita seperti pelakon telinovela Mexico dan Venezuela. Bila sampai di sana, saya terperanjat m ...


My dear WonBin kalau hang nak jumpa yang macam telinovela dirantau ni hang kena pergi ke Melabuh Aceh kerana disitu, mengikut cerita  ada kacukan Fahringgi hasil kelasi yang terdampar disitu. Tetapi lepas tsunami munkin tidak banyak lagi..I wish you good luck..
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Post time 27-1-2006 07:52 PM | Show all posts
Originally posted by hamizao at 27-1-2006 07:01 PM


Sori, hmmmmmmmm............lagi :hmm:

Kalau benar......dah tentu setengah Melayu Melaka-Muar-Pagoh blah blah (dah lupa) dah jadi Kristian kan? So, apa agaknya yang terjadi sebenarnya..??


Munkin genersi kita yang sudah jadi Cardinal diVatican. lol
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Post time 27-1-2006 07:59 PM | Show all posts
Originally posted by thamrong at 27-1-2006 04:47 PM


HangPC2!
Aceh berdiam diri saja bila Melaka dilanggar oleh Portugis kerana Aceh mengambil kesempatan dari kejatuhan Melaka. Itu sebab Pasai naik jadi pusat perdagangan apabila Melaka Jatuh. Or ...


kalo  tak  silap  saya,  Portugis  gak  pernah  membina kubu di  Pasai ....cuba  check sejarah permulaan kerajaan  Acheh
tapi  Acheh  berjaya  mengalahkan Portugis  dan  menakluki  Pasai ...
ini  terbukti  Acheh  jugak  mempunyai  kekuatan  ketenteraan  

Kalo  silap  tolong  betul...

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 Author| Post time 27-1-2006 08:22 PM | Show all posts
Originally posted by thamrong at 27-1-2006 07:48 PM


My dear WonBin kalau hang nak jumpa yang macam telinovela dirantau ni hang kena pergi ke Melabuh Aceh kerana disitu, mengikut cerita  ada kacukan Fahringgi hasil kelasi yang terdampar disitu. T ...


I see.....
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Post time 28-1-2006 11:05 AM | Show all posts
Kebanyakan Askar Melaka terdiri dari Askar Upahan Jawa betul ker??? teknologi meriam kecil adalah dari teknologi Dinasti Ming betul ker???
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Post time 28-1-2006 03:19 PM | Show all posts
اورع ملايو فاكي تومبك دان فارع سهاج٠مونكين مريم ﮐﭽﻳﻞ
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Post time 28-1-2006 03:29 PM | Show all posts
Ketika Malaka jatuh ke tangan Portugis, kembali Aceh bangkit dibawah
pimpinan Sultan Ali Mukayat Syah (1514-1528). Yang diteruskan oleh
Sultan Salahuddin (1528-1537). Sultan Alauddin Riayat Syahal Kahar
(1537-1568). Sultan Ali Riyat Syah (1568-1573). Sultan Seri Alam (1576.
Sultan Muda (1604-1607). Sultan Iskandar Muda, gelar marhum mahkota alam
(1607-1636). Semua serangan yang dilancarkan oleh Portugis dapat
ditangkis oleh Sultan-sultan Aceh ini.


Dsri akhir abad 17 sampai awal abad 19 keadaan Aceh tenang.

[ Last edited by thamrong at 28-1-2006 03:30 PM ]

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Post time 28-1-2006 03:46 PM | Show all posts
Originally posted by HangPC2 at 28-1-2006 11:05 AM
Kebanyakan Askar Melaka terdiri dari Askar Upahan Jawa betul ker???


Benar dan telah sy postkan. Yang lain2 ada juga Askar Upahan Turki dan Parsi.

Originally posted by HangPC2 at 28-1-2006 11:05 AM
teknologi meriam kecil adalah dari teknologi Dinasti Ming betul ker???


Elok juga kita singkap sikit sejarah senjata api ni ya?

Yang dapat sy kumpulkan ialah:

Pada abad ke-9, Cina (Dinasti Tang, Sung?) telah mereka gunpowder. Ada yang berkata Arab yang dahulu merekanya.....tak kesahlah. Sayapun takada detail ttg ni. Selepas itu mereka ada membuat bomb dan roket kebanyakan untuk bunga2 api. Ada juga bukti yg menunjukkan kegunaan meriam dalam peperangan melalui lakaran2 sami2 mereka akan tetapi mengikut rekod sejarah, pertama kali diguna dalam peperangan di Eropah dalam abad ke-13.

Pada 1304, Arab reka "gun" pertama yang boleh menembak panah. Saya ada terbaca mereka ada memanggil senjata api pertama mereka yg boleh di pegang(hand held) sebagai "Mifda" tetapi untuk diguna sebagai alat memburu. Saya kurang pasti sama ada mereka ada menggunanya dalam tujuan yang lain seperti dalam peperangan....belum dapat cari rujukan. Mungkin ahli militer lebih arif ttg hal ini....:hmm::hmm:

Idea2 ini di ambil oleh Eropah dan mereka menghalusi teknologinya lagi...kalau tak salah mereka  arqubuse, yaitu gun pertama yg mengguna trigger.

Itu sahaja input sy.

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Post time 28-1-2006 04:03 PM | Show all posts
Originally posted by mahathirGX at 27-1-2006 07:59 PM


kalo  tak  silap  saya,  Portugis  gak  pernah  membina kubu di  Pasai ....cuba  check sejarah permulaan kerajaan  Acheh
tapi  Acheh  berjaya  mengalahkan Portugis  dan  menakluki  Pasai ...
...


Peureulak, Pasai, Aceh and the Portugese



According to some historians, Aceh played an important role in Islamizing many parts of Indonesia, including Java, the most populous island. Islam came to Indonesia, and possibly all of Southeast Asia, through Aceh sometime around the eighth century.

The first Islamic kingdom in Aceh, Peureulak, was established in the early years of the ninth century, with Bandar Kalifah as its capital. Bandar Kalifah was described by some historians as a prosperous trading port in what is now Aceh.

Peureulak's prominent role in the Malaka Straits was carried on by the Samudra Pasai kingdom in the 13th century. According to historians, Pasai was formed through the merger of the Peureulak and Pase kingdoms.

The influence of Samudera Pasai, sometimes called Samudera Darussalam, was also felt on the Malaka Peninsula. Some historians say it was Pasai that Islamized the kingdom of Patani in southern Thailand.

Beside being the center of trade and Islamic studies in Southeast Asia, Pasai also exported its culture, and most importantly its language -- Jawi Pasai, more commonly known as Classic Malay -- to ports on a number of islands. Later, this language became the lingua franca among traders in what is now Indonesia and Malaysia. But in its development the language in Aceh grew differently, becoming more and more distinct from the common Malay.

In the middle of the 14th century, Pasai was invaded by Majapahit soldiers from Java. Pasai was defeated after three days of battle. Sultan Ahmad of Pasai left the palace, and many Acehnese were transported to Java as prisoners of war. These people later played an important role in the Islamization of Java.

Historian Teuku Haji Ibrahim Alfian from Gadjah Mada University said a special relation between Majapahit and Pasai was formed after the Majapahit king married a daughter of the Pasai sultan. When his wife's brother paid a visit to Majapahit's capital in East Java, the king of Majapahit awarded his brother-in-law land in Ampel -- what is now Surabaya in East Java. Ampel became the center for the spread of Islam in Java. From Ampel, Islam spread to Gresik, also in East Java, Kudus and Demak in Central Java, and many other parts of the island, particularly along the northern coast.
In the early 15th century, the Malaka kingdom on the Malaka Peninsula became prominent among traders in the Malaka Straits. Malaka wanted traders from Java and other areas under Majapahit's rule to use Malaka ports in their trade, instead of exclusively using the Pasai ports.

According to historian Ibrahim Alfian, Malaka sent representatives to Majapahit, asking Javanese traders to dock in Malaka ports. But the Majapahit authorities told the representatives Majapahit had forged close relations with Pasai and would use Pasai ports for its trade. Malaka then sent representatives to Pasai to ask the Pasai sultan's permission to allow Javanese traders to use Malaka ports. Pasai honored the request, thus beginning the Islamization of Malaka.

Together, Malaka and Pasai grew strong and controlled trade in the straits. As time passed, Malaka's trading ports became more prominent and overshadowed Pasai. But Malaka fell to Portugal in 1511. This shifted the center of trade in the straits from Malaka to Pasai. As a result, Portugal invaded Pasai and conquered it in 1521. Portugal eventually built a fortress in Pasai, bringing to an end this kingdom.

In another part of Aceh, namely in Aceh Besar, a small kingdom named Lamurai grew bigger and bigger. Under the leadership of Sultan Ali Mugayat Syah (1511-1530), this kingdom grew strong and was renamed Aceh Darussalam. In 1523, Sultan Ali attacked the Portuguese in Pasai, killing Portugal military commander Horge de Brito. Sultan Ali managed to drive the Portuguese troops out of Pasai. After this defeat, Portugal attempted to conquer Aceh several times, but to no avail.

Aceh Darussalam continued the role of Samudra Pasai in spreading Islam throughout Indonesia, and also promoted the use of Jawi Pasai, or Classical Malay, as the lingua franca of traders.
Aceh continued to develop, growing strong and prosperous. Under the leadership of Sultan Iskandar Muda, Aceh reached its golden era, conquering numerous areas in Sumatra, including Natal Tiku, Pariaman, Nias island and Johor on the Malaka Peninsula. Aceh also launched several offensives against Portugal in Malaka. Although it never truly defeated Portugal, Aceh controlled trade in the straits.


[ Last edited by thamrong at 28-1-2006 04:09 PM ]

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Post time 28-1-2006 05:16 PM | Show all posts
selepas kesultanan acheh mendapat bantuan dari empayar uthmaniyah armada perang uthmaniyah & acheh mengepung lalu mengempur melaka tetapi gagal (tak ingat beraper kali percubaan menawan melaka). selain askar portugis mendapat bantuan dari Goa . pihak portugis juga mendapat bantuan dari Askar Upahan dari Jepun  Ronin yg  beragama kristian iaitu pengikut Francis Xavier

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Post time 29-1-2006 12:14 AM | Show all posts
Originally posted by HangPC2 at 28-1-2006 05:16 PM
selepas kesultanan acheh mendapat bantuan dari empayar uthmaniyah armada perang uthmaniyah & acheh mengepung lalu mengempur melaka tetapi gagal (tak ingat beraper kali percubaan menawan melaka) ...


HangPC2! Aha.Die ist sehr gute Informationen. Tq
.
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Post time 29-1-2006 04:03 AM | Show all posts
maybe melaka dulu tak ready utk perang besar2an mcm tu.. melaka tak mcm europe yg asyik2 perang sampai terpaksa bina mcm2 castle..

sekuat2 portugis dulu.. sekarang ni sepi aje..
nama portugal pun jarang2 disebut..

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Post time 30-1-2006 12:57 AM | Show all posts
nice info..macam2 sumber dan hujah........
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Post time 31-1-2006 12:19 PM | Show all posts
Originally posted by thamrong at 27-1-2006 06:23 PM


Conflict Islam-Kristian memang ujud dan saya tidak napikan. Ini dibuktikan dengan perang salib ke-1 hingga ke-4. Disini juga dipanggil  Muslim-Kristian encounters. Di Palestine akhirnya Kristia ...



Yea. Saya hanya memberikan pendapat yang menyangah pendapat awak bahawa kononnya Portugis menghormati agama Islam. Malangnya, pendapat awak itu terang-terang salah. Dan tujuan mereka untuk menakluk Melaka bukan sahaja kerana perdagangan, tetapi juga untuk menyebarkan agama Kristian. Tindakan pertama mereka ialah mengkritistian mana-mana tawanan perang, termasuk hamba abdi dari pahlawan yang ditawan. Tindakan kedua ialah mengahwinkan tawanan perang gadis/wanita dengan askar-askar portugis dan mengkristiankan mereka. Tindakan ketiga, ialah cuba menyebarkan kristian kepada sekliling kawasan di Melaka - dengan harapan ancaman untuk menakluk semula Melaka akan dapat dihapuskan jika mereka semua berjaya dikristiankan. Dan, Portugis gagal. Dalam satu catatkan sejarah, dilaporkan pernah penduduk yang beragama Kristian di Melaka berjumlah 7,000 orang.

Portugis tidak menyerang Melaka hanya kerana membalas dendam. Mereka MEMANG bertujuan untuk menguasai pasaran rempah dari asia tenggara. Dan Melaka, yang menjadi pelabuhan mengumpulkan barangan ini menjadi sasaran, disamping menjadi pusat penyebaran Islam dirantau ini.

Jadi, alasan bahawa Portugis menghormati Islam amat-amat melucukan.

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Post time 31-1-2006 01:30 PM | Show all posts
Originally posted by thamrong at 29-1-2006 12:14 AM


HangPC2! Aha.Die ist sehr gute Informationen. Tq
.


Belanda/German ????? tak paham

[ Last edited by HangPC2 at 31-1-2006 01:32 PM ]
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Post time 31-1-2006 01:37 PM | Show all posts
Originally posted by SangSaka at 31-1-2006 12:19 PM



Yea. Saya hanya memberikan pendapat yang menyangah pendapat awak bahawa kononnya Portugis menghormati agama Islam. Malangnya, pendapat awak itu terang-terang salah. Dan tujuan mereka untuk me ...


I thought this issue  is sattled or  may be you never read my posting ##40 or you ada mental lapses. You are harping on old issue of spices trading which even school kid knows about it. You told me you are a "scholar" who studied under the tutelage of Prof Khoo. Give us your best shot on what happened the days after...not a passing comments and garbage(Anmerkungen und Abfall).
:cak::cak:

[ Last edited by thamrong at 31-1-2006 01:40 PM ]
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Post time 31-1-2006 01:43 PM | Show all posts
Originally posted by HangPC2 at 31-1-2006 01:30 PM


Belanda/German ????? tak paham


German (Aha! That is a very good information)
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Post time 31-1-2006 01:55 PM | Show all posts
Thamrong... Contoh  paling dekat penduduk Asia Dikristian secara paksa ialah di Philipina asal nyer penduduk sana beragama islam selepas kalah kepada penjajah sepanyol dan memaksa penduduk Islam (Melayu Moro) berundur ke selatan Mindanao. Nama asal ibu negara Philipina ''Manila'' berasal dari perkataan arab iatu Maunullah

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