Tragedi MH17 V4 : Kemungkinan MH17 ditembak jet pejuang Sukhoi?

GincuPurple

mnm77 posted on 12-8-2014 04:09 AM
Yang ni, jangan terkejut la...

Lori tu bawa BUK312... yang kena interview oleh polis Ukraine, s ...

Exactly! Lori yg bawak BUK312 tu sebenarnya convoy tentera Ukrain. Ukrain kantoi besar lagi. Tapi bak kata abg zainmahmud, 'kita tunggu siasatan'. Sejauh mana siasatan tu telus, ada siapa boleh jamin?

GincuPurple

zainmahmud posted on 12-8-2014 08:19 AM
Right, nk tengok jugak apa mesia boleh buat bila dh tau siapa dalangnya, x kira la rusia ka, ukrai ...

Memang senang kita nak cakap "bawa dalang ke pengadilan". Senang berkata dari dilaksana. Macam yang mnm77 kata, kalaupun kita tau siapa dalangnya (mungkin kerajaan kita dah tau?) bukan senang kita nak ambil tindakan. Dalam hal ni, negara kecil kita yang tak seberapa kekuatan tenteranya jika di bandingkan dengan kuasa2 besar perlu berhati2 dalam memberi kenyataan dan mengambil tindakan. Silap langkah/gopoh, rakyat yg terima akibatnya. "apa mesia boleh buat...", kata zainmahmud. Msia sekarang cuba untuk mencari jalan tengah supaya keadaan tidak menjadi lebih buruk!.

xdielzx

biggirlduncry posted on 12-8-2014 05:43 PM
Terkini: 16 mayat warga Malaysia sudah dikenal pasti - Tiong Lai

KUALA LUMPUR: Menteri Pengangkut ...

semalam dah ada briefing dengan keluarga mangsa yg dah dikenalpasti.. they will be flying immediate relatives to Amsterdam soon..

GincuPurple

kentutmanis posted on 12-8-2014 10:22 AM
netherland tu pon awal2 dah kate rusia bsalah, so how.. nmpk sgt da pro western jugak

itu lah yg gincu kata pada abg @zainmahmud, boleh percaya ke keputusan siasatan profesional walaupun belanda yang buat. kalau belanda pun pro allies, ingat diorang tak boleh ubah keputusan siasatan? amerika pun kata (bila ukrain dah banyak kali kantoi), tak kira la sapa tembak kapalterbang tu yg bersalah tetap rusia.

GincuPurple

mnm77 posted on 12-8-2014 03:08 AM
Ok i'll answer politely to you... hope you can answer me some of my queries as well...

1. I did ...

Good one!!!

kelana36

image post


Ni untuk sokong statement by @mnm77 yang MH17 lalu atas ruang udara Ukraine kena memalui 3 controlling centres, UKLV, UKBV, and UKDV. masa kena shot down, under control by UKDV atc, Dnepropetrovsk .and untuk tak bagi tergeliat lidah, atc communication guna Dnipro control jer, sama la macam Kuala Lumpur control, guna Lumpor control jer...  

GincuPurple

zainmahmud posted on 12-8-2014 03:52 AM
Good for you to hv that judgement. As far as im concerned,  i tried my best not to put any james b ...

Kadangkala tak cukup hanya kita menilai 'bagaimana dan bila perkara terjadi' dalam membuat analisis atau kesimpulan. Kita perlu lihat kepada sejarah, faktor antropologi, politikal dan aspek2 lain untuk mencari jawapan siapa yang paling berpotensi dalam kerja2 pembunuhan besar2an ni.
1)siapa yang memulakan/menganjurkan protes maidan di kiev?
2)apa latarbelakang presiden yang baru di lantik?siapa beliau sebenarnya?
3)siapa yang berhutang berbilion2 duit gas?
4)apa latar belakang orang2 donetsk yang diserang dan dibunuh? sebab apa mereka tidak bercakap bahasa mereka?
5)siapa yang selama ini sentiasa berusaha keras cuba provoke negara lain dengan membunuh bangsa mereka dan menghantar roket melepasi sempadan ke negara jiran?
6)siapa yang akan mendapat kelebihan apabila tenteranato datang memberi sokongan sekiranya negara jiran bertindakbalas kepada provocation?
7)siapa yang teringin sangat untuk membangunkan shale gas di wilayah timur ukrain dan mengaut keuntungan. Pembangunan Shale gas amat merbahaya kerana akan mencemar takungan air. kesan ini juga akan dirasai oleh negara jiran.
Soalan saya, apa yang rusia dapat jika mereka yang menjadi dalang?

dopey

case of mistaken identity kowt..ac putin airforce one dia serupa mcm mh 777 .Ukraine konon nk buk ac putin or pakai fighter jets tertembak mh17. Itu agaknye pres ukraine ltak jawatn.Skrang ukraine kna lah tduh rusky!usa amik kesempatn tuduh rusky jgak.Belum ade bokti koncrete sapa buat ancaman.

FanTasyCreaTioN

@Muntz

@NIXAR

dah boleh katup dah thread ni

16 Malaysians identified from post-mortem of MH17 victims’ remains

Sixteen out of the 43 Malaysian victims on board Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 have been positively identified, Transport Minister Datuk Seri Liow Tiong Lai said today.

The Malaysian government was now working on having these remains repatriated home, Bernama reported today.

"We have been working closely and tirelessly with the Dutch government and other countries to identify the remains of the victims.

"We have informed the family members in Malaysia that the government will accord the victims full honours when the remains are brought back soon," he was quoted as saying in a statement, according to Bernama.

To honour the victims and out of respect for their families, the government will also discuss any plans for the reception of the remains in Malaysia with the families first to ensure their wishes are fulfilled.  

"It is our intention that this successful collaboration will be for the benefit of the next-of-kin while respecting the wishes of the family members and ensuring the dignity the remains must receive.

"The nation indeed mourns the loss of our brothers and sisters. We will need to stand together to help in the healing process during this grieving period, particularly for those who have lost their loved ones," he was quoted as saying by Bernama.

FanTasyCreaTioN

MH17: First crash report ‘in weeks’: Dutch investigators
11 August 2014 @ 9:30 PM

THE HAGUE: Dutch air crash investigators said Monday they expect to release an initial report into what brought down flight MH17 over Ukraine with the loss of 298 lives “in a few weeks.”

There were 193 Dutch citizens aboard the Malaysia Airlines 777 when it exploded over strife-torn eastern Ukraine on July 17 and the Dutch are in charge of victim identification and probing the cause of the disaster.

The West has accused pro-Russian separatists of shooting down the jet with a missile supplied by Russia. Moscow has accused Ukraine of shooting it down.

“We have sufficient information to compile a preliminary report,” said Wim van der Weegen, spokesman for the Dutch Safety Board (OVV).

“We hope that it will be ready in a few weeks,” he told AFP, announcing that international crash investigators had now returned to the Netherlands without visiting the crash site.

“In order to analyse the information... it’s not essential to remain in Ukraine,” Van der Weegen told AFP, saying the team will now be based in The Hague.

Ukranian air crash experts, who are taking part in the international probe, had been at the crash site shortly after the crash, before the Dutch were tasked with leading the investigation, Van der Weegen said.

The deteriorating security situation prevented crash investigators under the OVV’s leadership from reaching the remote site, although Dutch, Australian and Malaysian forensic experts did reach the area to look for body parts and personal belongings.

“Since we’ve taken over the investigation, there has been no new opportunity to get to the crash site,” Van der Weegen said.

The OVV said in a statement that it was only investigating what brought down flight MH17, not who was responsible.

Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte last Wednesday called off the search for body parts as a result of escalating fighting between Kiev and pro-Russian separatists.

Van der Weegen said enough sources were available including cockpit voice recorders, flight data recorders (black boxes), radar details and information from air traffic controllers.

“We have enough information (for a preliminary report), but we would like to return to the crash site to verify some of our findings and get additional information,” he said. -AFP

Credit To:
http://www.nst.com.my/node/22219

zainmahmud

GincuPurple posted on 12-8-2014 09:18 PM
Memang senang kita nak cakap "bawa dalang ke pengadilan". Senang berkata dari dilaksana. Macam yan ...

You never know apa malaysia boleh buat. Hihi
dont underestimate ur own country.
walaupon kecik n lemah, tapi hati besaq...
Instead of gincu purple, purple heart better. Hihi... Jgn marah na

mnm77

kelana36 posted on 12-8-2014 09:47 PM
Ni untuk sokong statement by @mnm77 yang MH17 lalu atas ruang udara Ukraine kena memalui 3 controlling centres, UKLV, UKBV, and UKDV. masa kena shot down, under control by UKDV atc, Dnepropetrovsk .and untuk tak bagi tergeliat lidah, atc communication guna Dnipro control jer, sama la macam Kuala Lumpur control, guna Lumpor control jer...

Terima kasih tuan kelana36 atas maklumat dan penjelasan yang membuktikan ada beberapa control tower termasuk UKDV di Ukraine.

Terima kasih juga pada @yaminz :

yaminz posted on 12-8-2014 03:00 PM
yup mmg betul la, ATC nei kawal area nie;

Dnipropetrovsk Flight Information Region (FIR) coves an airspace area over Dnipropetrovsk, Donetsk, Kharkiv, Luhansk, Zaporizhzhia and eastern parts of Poltava and Sumy regions  amounting  to 165 444 sq. km.

Harap tuan @zainmahmud dapat terima penjelasan yang dibentangkan

  

mnm77

yaminz posted on 12-8-2014 03:17 PM
Paling penting skali, US kata nak kasi data satelit findings, tp smpi skrg xkasi2... apa kes...

Kalau US bagi, kantoi la Ukraine.... so, yang paling selamat, US akan kata kami ada bukti (takat tu aja lah)

yaminz

mnm77 posted on 13-8-2014 09:09 AM
Kalau US bagi, kantoi la Ukraine.... so, yang paling selamat, US akan kata kami ada bukti (takat t ...

tu la pasal...

mnm77

kentutmanis posted on 12-8-2014 06:22 PM
netherland tu pon awal2 dah kate rusia bsalah, so how.. nmpk sgt da pro western jugak

Awal-awal memang Belanda terikut-ikut rentak media barat yang diberi arahan supaya pro kerajaan Ukraine... dan memang Belanda tu western ally

Tapi Belanda agak neutral dalam kes ni. Belum lagi official report dikeluarkan, Kiev dah buat kesimpulan kata MH17 dijatuhkan oleh surface to air missile (SAM), ditempelak oleh Belanda yang pertikai macam mana Kiev boleh tahu sedangkan official report belum selesai?

Nampak Belanda agak berhati-hati.... harap ada satu harapan di situ... kalau Belanda ditekan oleh US untuk membuat pertuduhan terhadap Russia, mungkin Rakaman Kotak hitam tu tak akan keluar lah.... dan kes ni akan jadi macam kes 9/11, pakar-pakar tahu siapa dalang (inside job)... cuma tak boleh lawan cakap US dan terpaksa telan maklumat dari media barat.

Kita hidup di zaman moden yang penuh dengan fitnah terancang....

They plan and plot, We (Allah) plan and plot.... tunggu masa...

mnm77

yaminz posted on 13-8-2014 09:26 AM
tu la pasal...

Nasi tambah...

The license plate of the BUK 312 transport vechile AE4483HE belongs to Dnepropetrovsk Military base controlled by the Azov Battalion of Israeli Oligarch Ihor Valeriyovych Kolomoyskyi.

Ukraine's Secret Weapon: Feisty Oligarch Ihor Kolomoisky

By
Alan Cullison
June 27, 2014 12:31 p.m. ET

Ihor Kolomoisky, a billionaire banking tycoon recently appointed governor of Dnipropetrovsk region in eastern Ukraine, has vowed to defend the country. Reuters

DNIPROPETROVSK, Ukraine—Leaning over a map of eastern Ukraine on his desk, Gennady Korban gripped a ballpoint pen and drew a squiggling blue line down its center.

The border, he said, marked the battlefront in his country's war with pro-Russia separatists. One side was stable, rid of "troublemakers," he said. On the other are "maniacs," he said. "Men without families, who don't want families, they just like war." If they cross over the line, he said, "we'll just have to kill them."
Related

    Europe, U.S. Give Russia Deadline on Ukraine

He called the border "Kolomoisky's line"—after his billionaire boss, who is emerging as one of the more unlikely protagonists to emerge from Ukraine's fight for survival.

When its high-profile conflict with Russia began, the fledgling government in Kiev was caught flat-footed, with an army with little fighting experience or funding. Enter Ihor Kolomoisky, a 51-year-old outspoken banking tycoon. Now recently appointed by the country's president as governor of Dnipropetrovsk region in eastern Ukraine, he has decided to dip into his fortune to bolster that army and defend the homeland.
View Graphics

So far, that has included buying tires, car batteries and fuel for army units, as well outfitting local militias. He also announced a program to buy up contraband weapons and offer a $10,000 bounty for any pro-Russia militant captured with a gun. Without disclosing numbers, Mr. Kolomoisky's deputies call the program a success, though they say a few drunks have tried to turn in some compatriots for reward.

Notable for having a massive shark aquarium in his office, Mr. Kolomoisky has arrived on the scene as the conflict with Russia drags into its fourth month. (On Friday, Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko extended a week-long cease-fire with pro-Russia fighters until Monday night.) Certainly the country, with a dire shortage of battle-ready troops, could use a billionaire's backing—and this particular one has no shortage of ideas. Earlier this month, he announced a plan to build a 1,200-mile electrified fence spanning the border of Russia and Ukraine.

But critics question Mr. Kolomoisky's motives, pointing out that he and other oligarchs in Ukraine may have more financial than altruistic reasons for maintaining the status quo. For years now, critics say, the oligarchs' powerful influence over many industries have blocked economic reforms in a country that has one of Europe's lowest average per capita incomes.

"These are precisely the opposite of the sorts of people would you want to appoint" as governors, said Mark Kramer, professor of Cold War studies at Harvard University. "It's hard for me to see why those who fought for change in Ukraine would want such people in charge."

To oversee military operations, Mr. Kolomoisky appointed Mr. Korban, who describes himself as a conflict manager in hostile corporate takeovers. In widely reported incidents, Mr. Korban narrowly escaped two assassination attempts during his career—when his car was machine-gunned and when someone planted a bomb under a table. "I know one thing, we can only win this war with a real army," said Mr. Korban. But, he said, until the army is ready for an offensive, he and Mr. Kolomoisky are taking temporary measures.

In a rare interview, Mr. Kolomoisky declined to say how much he is spending personally to build up what his aides call the "Kolomoisky army," but experts estimate it is about $10 million a month just to fund the salaries of militia and police units, some of whom technically report to Ukraine's army and interior ministry. His province now has close to 2,000 battle-ready troops in the field, his aides say. By comparison, Ukraine's army had only 6,000 through the entire country when Russia took control of the Crimean peninsula earlier this year.

For their part, Ukraine government officials say they are happy to have his help. Mr. Kolomoisky didn't address any specific criticism about him, but did say his job as governor has mainly hurt, not helped, his business interests. Still, Privat Bank, the bank he controls, could stand to gain from aid being pumped into Ukraine that will partly be used to recapitalize the country's banks regardless of the Russian threat. This spring, for example, the International Monetary Fund approved $17 billion in aid to Ukraine, and the World Bank and Group of Seven leading nations plan to pump in another $15 billion soon.

A rotund man who is fond of home-cooked meals, Mr. Kolomoisky said he had been directing his businesses from a home in Switzerland, but returned to Ukraine in March to take the governor's job. He said he is ready to quit it as soon as the threat of pro-Russia separatism subsides in Ukraine.

He took the governor's post, he said, on principle to oppose Russia's policy of bullying Ukraine away from closer ties to Europe. He said he believes along with most Ukrainians that the country must follow the development of European countries that had been under Moscow's heel as members of the Warsaw Pact. "It would have been possible to have warmer relations with Russia, but I'm not going to sacrifice my principles for it," he said. "I'm a die-hard European."

He described the rise of oligarchs like himself in Ukraine as a natural stage in the transition of some countries to democracy, similar to the robber barons of the U.S. at the beginning of the 1900s. Today, a handful of tycoons control most of the heavy industries and media of Ukraine. But Mr. Kolomoisky said he hopes such oligarchs will ultimately disappear as a class.

Not one to mince words, the tycoon quickly drew attention when he took office, saying in his first local television appearance that Russian President Vladimir Putin was a "schizophrenic of short stature" and was "completely incapable, totally insane." Mr. Putin, who stands 5 feet 7 inches, shot back, calling Mr. Kolomoisky a "unique impostor" and expressing amazement that "such a scoundrel could be appointed governor." Russian authorities then put the Moscow subsidiary of Mr. Kolomoisky's Privat Bank under temporary administration, saying it was having liquidity problems. The unit was sold to a Russian company, protecting customers.

Mr. Kolomoisky's acquaintances say he never showed much interest in politics, but he did like to make money. In Ukraine's loosely regulated market, he thrived as a pioneer with aggressive takeover tactics such as getting obscure provincial courts to change a company's share registrar, or hiring armed guards to seize company offices, said Tom Warner, a former Ukraine analyst for Sito Capital, an emerging markets fund manager. Mr. Korban, the billionaire's takeover manager, says all of these tactics were legal. "In the rest of the world it's called mergers and acquisitions," he said.

About 10 years after founding with some friends Privat Bank, and expanding his empire into numerous businesses, Mr. Kolomoisky began in 2000 to think about raising his political profile. Dmitry Vydrin, a political consultant from Kiev, said Mr. Kolomoisky invited him for a chat in his office in Dnipropetrovsk, where the banking magnate listened, but also periodically pressed a button on a remote-control box on his desk that dropped crayfish meat to the sharks in his aquarium. "It was unnerving," said Mr. Vydrin.

Mr. Kolomoisky steered clear of open party politics, but did acquire a nationally broadcast television station and a news service. That "has more influence than having a party in parliament," Mr. Korban explained to a Ukrainian newspaper in 2007.

In the interview, Mr. Kolomoisky said he and his partners never offered any financial support to protesters before the president, Viktor Yanukovych, was ousted, but he did support them through his television channel. He said discussions about becoming governor started in January—the month before the president fled—but declined to say whom they were with.

By the time he arrived in the governor's office, pro-Russia groups were seizing control of government buildings in nearby provinces, and moving to do the same in Dnipropetrovsk. He moved quickly on several fronts, said a deputy governor, Boris Filatov.

Mr. Filatov said he was assigned to defuse tensions by holding meetings with various political groups and listening to their complaints. He and Mr. Kolomoisky met with veterans groups and promised more patriotic education in the schools, and with Communists, to whom he promised to pay respects to some historic monuments. Local fascists "wanted to do more sports," Mr. Filatov said. "So we gave them gyms."

As Mr. Filatov tells it, pro-Russia demonstrations in the city at first drew about 1,500 people, but soon their numbers dwindled to 500, then 300, "and soon there weren't any meetings at all."

Critics of Mr. Kolomoisky said there was a more brutal campaign behind the scenes. Viktor Marchenko led meetings of his local chapter of Union of Soviet Officers, clamoring for a return to Soviet borders, until some unidentified men punched him in the head at one event, he said. He blamed Mr. Kolomoisky, who is Jewish, and said "there will be consequences" for the Jewish community one day. The tycoon didn't discuss the incident in the interview.

Oleg Tsarev, a local pro-Russia parliament member, also led some meetings, but left Ukraine after he was beaten by a mob in Kiev. After decamping to Moscow he received a phone call from Mr. Kolomoisky, a recording of which was posted on the Internet.

In a conversation laced with invective, Mr. Kolomoisky told him that a Jewish soldier from the Dnipro Battalion had been killed in fighting and that members of the Jewish community had put a reward of a million dollars on Tsarev's head. "They will be looking for you everywhere," Mr. Kolomoisky said. "Don't go anywhere."

Mr. Kolomoisky confirmed the tape was real. Mr. Korban said there was nothing wrong with the phone call. "He was just giving him his opinion, he wasn't threatening him," Mr. Korban said.

Mr. Korban said business contacts from Privat Group, an informal nebula of companies controlled by Mr. Kolomoisky and his partners, have been useful in supplying the army and militia units, allowing him to contact heads of major local chains to cut deals for military supplies. The tycoon's team also funneled volunteers into a local militia, called the Dnipro Battalion, that were outfitted with gray SUVs and new uniforms. More lightly armed militias were cobbled together as well, to man checkpoints around the province.

Today the Dnipro Battalion has not only the 2,000 battle-ready troops, equipped with heavy weapons, but more than 20,000 in reserve. If any Russian soldier wants to die for Russia, said Yury Beryoza, the commander of the battalion, "they should come to Dnipropetrovsk, because here we will kill them."

The Dnipro Batallion saw its first major action when separatists took control of a police station in the port city of Mariupol, in an adjacent province. The station was burned to the ground with its occupants. In all, 54 volunteers from Dnipropetrovsk have been killed since the beginning of the fighting.

Mr. Korban said Dnipropetrovsk is expanding the borders of its influence, with regional militias taking over four regions inside the adjacent province of Donetsk and installing regional administration heads who are friendly to Mr. Kolomoisky. Mr. Korban called it a "buffer zone" and said they were prepared to take four more regions.

He said Mr. Kolomoisky has brought in Romanian and Georgian military advisers to help with the training of troops, who in the Dnipro Battallion until recently only had a week of boot camp. He also invited Georgia's former president, Mikheil Saakashvili, to visit and bring some of his former advisers to help them streamline the bureaucracy of the Dnipropetrovsk government.

Mr. Saakashvili, whose country was invaded in 2008 after years of cross-border altercations with Russia, said he spent two days in Dnipropetrovsk last month, and said the situation looked a lot like Georgia's before the war.

He said that Mr. Putin was able to seize Crimea and destabilize eastern provinces by acting quickly, but that Mr. Kolomoisky appears to have halted his progress by moving faster than anyone expected.

As an oligarch who has insulted Mr. Putin's height "he is really everything that Putin hates," said Mr. Saakashvili, who believes now that Mr. Kolomoisky's appearance is a bad development for the Russian leader. "I used to think that I was Putin's No. 1 enemy," he said, "but now I think an oligarch just pushed me aside."

http://online.wsj.com/articles/ukraines-secret-weapon-feisty-oligarch-ihor-kolomoisky-1403886665

scorpionkiki

mnm77 posted on 13-8-2014 09:27 AM
Awal-awal memang Belanda terikut-ikut rentak media barat yang diberi arahan supaya pro kerajaan Uk ...

Ya... I perasan sblm dpt black box dulu belanda mcm tuduh pemisah jugak tp sejak bekerjasama dgn malaysia post handling the bbox  on this incident, they have mellowed down on the accusation.... alhamdullillah dgn  dutch kita bekerjasama dan bukan uk.... kalau rakyat uk yg banyak, mmg tak ke mana I rasa investigation ni...

pumpkingirl

Takde sapa demand transkrip atc ke..kalau kes mh370 bukan main lagi semua kena dedah cepat2 siap kata kerajaan msia slow,lembab mcm2...ni data blackboard dah berminggu pun masih tak didedahkan lagi.

yaminz

mnm77 posted on 13-8-2014 09:32 AM
Nasi tambah...

The license plate of the BUK 312 transport vechile AE4483HE belongs to Dnepropet ...

mau tak senang duduk billionaire tu...

GincuPurple

zainmahmud posted on 12-8-2014 07:32 PM
You never know apa malaysia boleh buat. Hihi
dont underestimate ur own country.
walaupon kecik n ...

I know what Malaysia can do, to take wise action preventing further disasters and this is not simple and small. I am commenting on fact that we are small to take bold action physically but I believe our country is taking smart action. Is that consider underestimating? Let it be GincuPurple, I don't have to show my purpleheart.