theory of Dog...err GOD

Greenbottle3

I'm very fascinated by how human view god or gods....

primitive people and animists sees gods and ghosts in everything that looks forbidding...big trees, megaliths, stones, rocks, owls, other animals....

Hindus sees gods in all kind of menifestations...vishnu, shiva, brahma,krishna  etc..and the female counterparts ganesha, kalki, etc...and can even be manifested in animals...and sometimes even movie stars...but ultimately philosophically even hindus as I understand it believe all these manifestations come from one single godhead...Balinese call this single godhead  'Sang Yang Widi'...Indian hindus call it brahma...

Christian sees good like an old man ... if religious paintings is any indication christian god looks very much like Charles Darwin and Jesus has a rather confused role as partime  god, sometimes son sometime a jewish lad...

Buddhists do not view god(s) very highly...mere beings ..at least lower than Buddha...that begs the question who created the orignal Gautama?

Islam admits that it does not know what on earth god looks like (as described in surah al Ikhlas) but in a different verse stated that god sits on arash (the throne)...so does this means that 'physically and mathematically' the throne has bigger dimension than god?...Islam says do not question those things that are 'ghaib'....so we leave it at that....

Agnostics feels that human intellectual capacity are not good enough to fanthom this thing called god...there is a creator (s) but not neccessarily as described by the formal religions which are all human centric....

and athiests believe that this is all bosh...nonsense...what we need is just basic physical laws...laws of physics explains everything...

Karen Armstrong wrote a fascinating book called 'history of god'...nad she was very well versed in Islamic cosmology and ephistemology and wrote with good understanding how christian, jews and muslims view god over the ages...fascinating read...

fleurzsa

Salam,

My theory (of course,  based on my reading experience)..

In nature, human being need something that more powerful and have specific strongness as a place to get help or throw compaint.  All  human being  would be missing  a power that is beyond themselves.  Its a logic that not all jobs can be finish by themselves as human being.

Just think...

Why people of Buddha and Hindu, build temples with lots of moneys?  They r hoping for something miracle from outside themselves.

Same thing in Cristianity, Jew, animism and dinamism... all r finding something powerful that beyond themselves for them to plead on their good  faith.


ps.. I hope everyone can make some thinkings on my points here  more than my grammar he he he he

seribulan

Originally posted by Greenbottle3 at 19-10-2005 02:54 AM
I'm very fascinated by how human view god or gods....

primitive people and animists sees gods and ghosts in everything that looks forbidding...big trees, megaliths, stones, rocks, owls, other an ...

I've been thru miracles (3 times involving neardeath)...I do believe...
tingat lak lagu ni...how klise:cak:

When you Believe
(Whitney Houston/Mariah Carey)

Many nights we pray
With no proof anyone could hear
And our hearts a hopeful song
We barely understand
Now we are not afraid
Although we know there's much to fear
We were moving mountains long
Before we know we could
Oah yes
There can be miracles
When you believe
Though hope is frail
It's hard to kill
Who know what miracle
You can achieve
When you believe
Somehow you will
You will when you believe

Mariah:
In this time of fear
When prayer so often proves in vain
Hope seems like the summer birds
Too swiftly flown away
And now I am standing here
My heart's so full I can't explain
Seeking faith and speaking words
I never thought I'd say

There can be miracles
When you believe
(Whitney Houston: When you believe)
Though hope is frail
It's hard to kill
Who know what miracles

You can achieve
(Whitney Houston: You can achieve)
When you believe
Somehow you will
You will when you believe

(Both
They don't always happen when you ask
And it's easy to give in to your fear
Ohhhhh
But when you're blinded by your pain
Can't see you way safe through the rain
Thought of a still resilient voice
Says love is very near

There can be miracles
(Whitney Houston: Miracles)
When you believe
(Whitney Houston: When you believe)
Though hope is frail
It's hard to kill
Who know what miracles
You can achieve
(Whitney Houston: You can achieve)
When you believe
Somehow you will
(Whitney Houston: Somehow somehow somehow)
You will when you believe
You will when you believe
You will when you believe
You will when you believe
Just believe
You will when you
Believe

;) so many things that are 'ghaib'...;)the wind, the air, scent, smell, taste...
we can only put our faith, sense and thought on them...

Greenbottle3

I find it distasteful when some people try to prove the validity of their faith through means of MIRACLES...some claim that you can walk on fire without getting hurt..it's a miracle!... some believe that some saints can walk on water etc...some claims that stone statues of virgin mary shed tears... etc...

I think by saying that god  proves his existence  and truth through these 'magical' means  is rather insulting to god...why god need to choose such silly ways to prove his existence?... to me the existence of so much wonderful life in this world is the ultimate miracle... no need for other stupid pyrotechnics and magic mumbo jumbo...

but ah then again... do we need god to explain the existence of all these wonderful things??....
There is a very interesting concept that try to explain all these... which is  strangely enough  used by both creationists (people who belive in god) and evolutionists (people who believe in dog) to prove that their view is the right one.... it's called ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE... first stated by one oxford or is it cambridge? (always either one of these aren't they) philosopher by the name of Brandon Carter in the 1970s...

Basically it says that the physical laws is just right to create carbon based intelligent beings (human)... veer a bit left or right we will not exist as we do today....creationists say who the hell create these laws then?... people like stephen hawking says ..nonsense.. no need for any god  to explain these physical laws....

you can read all about it by doing a simple search 'anthropic principle'...blow your brain out...

seribulan

Originally posted by Greenbottle3 at 25-10-2005 06:15 PM
I find it distasteful when some people try to prove the validity of their faith through means of MIRACLES

 have you ever experience them? Well, I might be a sceptic like you, too卛f I haven抰 experience them卆nd it抯 not a validity of faith卼here抯 no need to validate something that has a stronghold already卝ust that something unexplainable can sometimes make you began to explore more and deeper about your faith, beliefs

miss_sherlock

Yeah i heard of the anthropic principles. It is simply saying that the current
condition of nature like how everyting is just the right balance for us
humans to exist, then there must be a HIGHER authority that makes it such.
pretty cool. of course some ppl say that things exist just because they exist

I remember this one situation i read when i was in school..
the difference between a cat and a human is that if you throw a ball at a cat.
it will look at the ball.. but if you throw a ball at a human, he or she will
look at the source of the ball. So kita sebagai manusia tak boleh lari dari
fitrah semulajadi untuk mencari source kita..Kita sentiasa ingin bertanya
dan mencari assal kita

I read that most scientist actually secretly believes or feel that there is
a CREATOR tapi untuk prove secara thoroughly without a doubt is beyond us.
After studying the world, they feel the presence of a divine hand. Religion, like
science, ironically takes a great leap of faith

There is so much order in this world macam the cahnge of tides,
the change of seasons, the planetary motions, tapi at the same time there are also some disorder in it like human behavior.
Have you heard of the chaos theory? Given some initial conditions,
and a situation, it is hard to predict your outcome..
so some believe that this could be proof of how God
could intervene in situations.
"The flap of a butterfly's wing can cause a hurricane in the Amazon"..
something like that tak ingat sangat tapi macam how satu benda yg kecil kalau
kita tukar boleh lead to unknown things..pretty cool, huh?

I like one of Einsteins quotes "I want to know God's thoughts;
the rest are details."

and another one "Science without religion is lame,
religion without science is blind"

Apa2 pun its always good to question, ya? We are all here to learn be it religion or science

Greenbottle3

ms sherlock...

the way i see it...(may be wrong of course)...most  real scientists (esp physicists) DON'T believe in god...or at most agnostics...but there are many especially in USA who hedge their bets and retain both...they think that science and belief in god are compatible....there is a big debate right now for creationist version of how things come to being should be tought in schools (in addition to the usual theory of evolution etc...the scientific version)...

When Brandon Carter first put forward the idea of anthropic principle basically it is just stating the observed fact that we and all living things can not come into existence if the laws of physics (and the values of each scientific quantities eg energy in atoms etc) are even slightly different than what they are ...but some religionists claim that this is also the proof of the existence of intelligent being (God?) to make these laws...(but many scintists explain that this argument is fallacious...physical laws don't need the existence of supreme being to exist) ...

Brandon Carter was not pleased that this principle now become 'human centric'....there is in fact nothing special in human but for the fact that as you rightly say (the cat and ball analogy) human has the capacity to observe and think out things...but don't other animals esp the higher primates have their own ways of 'thinking' too??...

and to jump a bit to another issue...it is strange for god to make us human the most special being such a CRUELl species... we have to EAT LIVING things to survive!!!  ...we have to KILL animals...cows, chicken etc...for our sustenance?
don't we feel that these are NOT right?? are we better than the other carnivores, tigers lions etc?...why can't we be like plants...getting sustenance from inanimate elements...light, water and CO2?

It's imponderable...but I understand why some good people CHOOSE to be vegetarians...me?no I'm too weak...I'm a tiger....

miss_sherlock

oh okay.. i cant remember exactly where i read that . just interviews with some scientists that they secretly believes that there is a divine hand but to prove? Who knows ? the general perception is that scientists do not believe in a supreme being.
that is true, i'll give you that

I heard about the debate with intelligent design on how its not meant to be included in science because there is no reason behind it. it is as it is. To be honest, to me, it  is all politics. About the everlasting struggle for being right between the theist and the atheist.. there is always some religious body advocating some agenda to prove their point and there is always some atheists with their agenda to prove their point.
Which always happens with every scientific theory, every religious beliefs like your Brendan Carter example. It started out as his theory which gets blown to a "maybe there is a God in all this" Its highly entertaining because one would never accept the other! *Chuckles


Which brings me to my current thought, if science always is hell bent on finding the truth.. they ask what, how, when ...why is it that they stop at the why?
Things in science are supposed to be logical. And more often than not, when it comes to why .. the learning stops there. it is as it is. There is nothing more.

This is just my personal opinion, kay? i believe that science provides the means to prove things.. the what, when, how, but to understand why.. we need some faith. perhaps that faith could be religiion? well.. these are just my thoughts, ya?

concerning the cruelness of things.. i have not really given much thought to it.
I myself am a tiger. I will post back later.. right now im in the neck of things.. the struggle between procrastination and the deadline...

abcdotcom

God is God .Goat is Goat .End .