What, why and who's God.

thamrong

I walked out of the 'Ceramah Agama after performing my evening solat at, if my memory is still in a perfect working order, Mesjid India Jalan Datuk Klana Klang about 10 years ago. I took my decision for reason that I do not want to have anything to do with the defination of God given by the speaker. Its too superficial and simplistic. The speaker was merely ' al-loyer burok' worst then any devil you can imagine. He allogorically potrayed God as Mighty Being or Beast sitting on high rostrum  with power emminating from him ruling the universe and all the beings within.....this is heretic  because it gave the impression that  God  looks like the Norseman king in the movies of Conan the Babarian........What say you? What is God? Why there is God and Who is God?   So let the search begin.....

seribulan

I can count on God when I am troubled...trouble is God is counting on me...

hamizao

Y. Masih surmised in his book that man cannot know God. Through his reasoning he may know so much only that  God exist.......but not what He is. Human intellect can know Him through sensible objects in so far as they, the objects manifest him or mirror him.

As for Philo, he espoused that God, the absolute, is beyond ordinary thought.....above human knowledge and virtue...We may know him through inner illumination and revelation. Through his intelligence he may know that He is, but not what He is. Remember "I am that I am"?

Howisthat for starter?

pendakwa

Praise is due to Allah whose worth cannot be described by speakers, whose bounties cannot be counted by calculators and whose claim (to obedience) cannot be satisfied by those who attempt to do so, whom the height of intellectual courage cannot appreciate, and the divings of understanding cannot reach; He for whose description no limit has been laid down, no eulogy exists, no time is ordained and no duration is fixed. He brought forth creation through His Omnipotence, dispersed winds through His Compassion, and made firm the shaking earth with rocks.

The foremost in religion is the acknowledgement of Him, the perfection of acknowledging Him is to testify Him, the perfection of testifying Him is to believe in His Oneness, the perfection of believing in His Oneness is to regard Him Pure, and the perfection of His purity is to deny Him attributes, because every attribute is a proof that it is different from that to which it is attributed and everything to which something is attributed is different from the attribute. Thus whoever attaches attributes to Allah recognises His like, and who recognises His like regards Him two; and who regards Him two recognises parts for Him; and who recognises parts for Him mistook Him; and who mistook Him pointed at Him; and who pointed at Him admitted limitations for Him; and who admitted limitations for Him numbered Him.

Whoever said in what is He, held that He is contained; and whoever said on what is He held He is not on something else. He is a Being but not through phenomenon of coming into being. He exists but not from non-existence. He is with everything but not in physical nearness. He is different from everything but not in physical separation. He acts but without connotation of movements and instruments. He sees even when there is none to be looked at from among His creation. He is only One, such that there is none with whom He may keep company or whom He may miss in his absence.

seribulan

Can we use 'He' for God? I am always skeptical to use any pronoun.

hamizao

5# seribulan

Well of course........

thamrong

I would prefer to look the definition of God through 'idea and concept'  with a touch of mental abstraction. Beginning with the Plato's theory of  'form and idea' and God as the ultimate beauty the neo-Platonic philosopher extended the idea that God as an uncaused cause. Wow! That is awesome  and very clever. Its reminds me of the 'law of causality and the First Cause”. Any takers?

This concept dominated the Christian theological thinking until 12th Century.
During the Dark Age the Muslim scholars mastered the work of Aristotelian translation in Arabic. The Muslim scholar used and adopted the Aristotelian logics and structured arguments in the study of Islamic theology. Superior commentaries were produced by scholars like Abu Sina and Averroes.  Aristotelian complete corpus finally managed to make inroad into the Christian world in the 13th Century after translation from Arabic to Latin.
Thomas Aquinas, the famous Christian theological philosopher in  his ' Summa Theologiae' applied this idea in trying to explain how God should be understood. He argued that God:
1.He does not have body
2.He is not a composition of matter
3.He is one with His essence and nature
4.He is not only his essence but also his existence
5.He is not as a cause
6.He is one

ZamZamAlaKazam

...we need God, but God doesn't need us...

pendakwa

Can we use 'He' for God? I am always skeptical to use any pronoun.
seribulan Post at 18-7-2009 20:59

I feel the same way too, but the word him does not indicate male or female.
There are commands from god in the quran which quote "kami" but does not means many.
It is merely terms of respect.

pendakwa

7# thamrong

That explains the quote earlier.

hamizao

8# ZamZamAlaKazam

If so, why does He create us? I didn't ask to be born...no?

ajinomotonosuga

God exist in silence

mbhcsf

8# ZamZamAlaKazam

If so, why does He create us? I didn't ask to be born...no?
hamizao Post at 19-7-2009 12:29

to worship him...

do good

ZamZamAlaKazam

11# hamizao

...that's a chicken and egg question.

A light shines in all direction.
Rivers flow to the sea.

thamrong

Everyone, since the infancy stage 'jumps into the leap if faith' we accept God as some strong overpowering force as mentioned by mom and dad, teachers and may be some idiot on the high street. The mind never transcends beyond that but transgression for sure we will be punishe..we fear God and ghost equally. Slowly but surely we crave to meet or to have personal experience with Him. But He is never to be found and we feel abandoned by our own creator and feel cheated...we seek the  answer and question his accountability.
Old Scriptures, the Bible and Koran tell us abundantly  about Him the all benevolence and all merciful but to seek him is futile and useless....we move to different plane and seek tounderstand Him instead.

hamizao

to worship him...

do good
mbhcsf Post at 24-7-2009 10:39

Why does he need to be worshipped? Doesn't he have enough angels that worship him all the time? Why does he need the miserable man?

mbhcsf

16# hamizao

well, He does not need us actually  in fact he is FREE of all wants..so he JUST Telling us to worship HIM, why not , He created us , gosh the universe too...He is GREAT , right ? yes indeed He is.

hamizao

15# thamrong

"Everyone, since the infancy stage 'jumps into the leap if faith' we accept God as some strong overpowering force as mentioned by mom and dad, teachers and may be some idiot on the high street. ......."

Yes, some  religious beliefs are simply a matter of faith independent of evidence. To some, faith is more of a matter of feeling and emotions rather than a matter of reason and evidence. As such, it has to be a matter of personal (free) decision and commitment.

pendakwa

Post Last Edit by hamizao at 25-7-2009 16:34



Why does he need to be worshipped? Doesn't he have enough angels that worship him all the time? Why does he need the miserable man?
hamizao Post at 25-7-2009 16:32

I guess this is absolute good question and I'm not sure if you satisfy with the answer given.
The fact is, if god created mankind that he knows majority are going to do evil things, than why create at the first place?

joe1983

50.16. It was We Who created man, and We know what dark suggestions his soul makes to him: for We are nearer to him than (his) jugular vein.

55.33. O ye assembly of Jinns and men! If it be ye can pass beyond the zones of the heavens and the earth, pass ye! not without authority shall ye be able to pass!

90.4. Verily We have created man into toil and struggle.
5. Thinketh he, that none hath power over him?

50.30. One Day We will ask Hell, "Art thou filled to the full?" It will say, "Are there any more (to come)?"

41.28. Such is the requital of the enemies of Allah,- the Fire: therein will be for them the Eternal Home: a (fit) requital, for that they were wont to reject Our Sings.
29. And the Unbelievers will say: "Our Lord! Show us those, among Jinns and men, who misled us: We shall crush them beneath our feet, so that they become the vilest (before all)."

10.44. Verily Allah will not deal unjustly with man in aught: It is man that wrongs his own soul.