|
|
oh God
Originally posted by blastoff at 4-2-2009 09:21 AM 
Ironik kan , walaupun kajian2 sains are plagued with experiments that produce uncertain results due to the observer effect , tapi masih ramai saintist barat yang sanggup tolak kewujudan Tuha ...
this is about how reliable and valid an instrument / tool is...
hmm... i nak solat ..then i kena go to fac. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Originally posted by mbhcsf at 4-2-2009 01:30 PM 
would you like to explain a little bit more on those italics words?
Rasanyer ish ..kita tak boleh lagi kot dapat total comprehension on the law of nature and by the mentioning of the word FLAWLESS kat situ - well actually .. i am bit vague there...would you like to reiterate that statemnet sikit ker, please ?( merah muka dia ni aah tak faham ...ekekkek)
Let's see the quote first
Originally posted by blastoff at 4-2-2009 08:38 AM
I don't think creating the fuzzy logic would be a suitable word for it , lebih kepada applying a fuzzy logic system that's flawless based on a comprehensive understanding of the law of nature , and applying this understanding to the fuzzy "If-Then" rules , so that the final product would be an invention that's highly efficient , designating superior performance that can wow us all . So its the undestanding of how nature really works that's so important in this case .
Its what the scientists and innovators are trying ( struggling more like it  ) to achieve , for example Asimo .  Well now that Honda is struggling with festering economic woe that has crippled some of its activities , may be Asimo's developement will be stunted for a while until Honda can breathe a fresh profitable air once again , almost all major corporations are choking , including the auto industry 
I give you a clue , the sentence in black is the key to understand the italic one , can you figure it out dear ? Let me know what you think it means ok 
That's the main problem faced by those who try to understand the verses of the Quran actually, they got hung up on certain words in a verse without realizing the fact that they must focus on the many verses before and after it in order to understand what the certain words in the verse really mean , read within context is the key here  |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Originally posted by saden at 4-2-2009 12:42 AM
kalau ikut maksud satu hadis tu, orang C ni dipanggil org yg ajaib iman dia...pasal dia beriman walaupun tanpa bukti dan tanpa melihat nabi.. iman dia langsung tak goyah atau was-was.
was-was adalah kerja syaitan yang 24/7 devising plan after plan to divert people from His way , so no one can tell syaitan not to do something only God has the power to do that . So whether we like it or not , the feeling of was-was will come from time to time dalam hati kita , but we are not at fault la if we don't succumb to it , its how we devise a plan to fight it aje la kan yang pentingnya tu , counterattack ....
It's within human nature to seek for proofs , looking for a way to make certain the things that they can't see with their own eyes . Sebab tu lah Allah letak macam - macam mukjizat dalam Al Quran dan Hadis , the more we comprehend and realize the miracles of the Quran and Hadis , the more our faith will be strengthened , itu lah salah satu fungsi mukjizat pun , kan Allah tak mengadakan apa pun melainkan bersebab , kita dikurniakan otak oleh Allah untuk fikirkan sebabnya la kan kalau kita tak boleh fikir lagi sekarang , tak semestinya sebab tu tak ada langsung , kita aje yang tak nampak lagi sebab tu due to our own limited knowledge
[ Last edited by blastoff at 4-2-2009 08:44 PM ] |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Originally posted by saden at 4-2-2009 12:42 AM
banyak lagi kisah lain di mana perintah Allah yg turun goes against all logic, tapi bila ikut di situlah kejayaan.
contohnya .... |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Originally posted by saden at 4-2-2009 12:46 AM
hehehehe langsung tak masuk book dalam kepala aku. kalau sains buktikan Quran/hadis tak benar secara saintifik, aku tak teragak2 drop sains dan tetap berpegang pada Quran hadis.
aku suka sikap kau ni , May God bless you  |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Originally posted by mbhcsf at 4-2-2009 01:38 PM
this is about how reliable and valid an instrument / tool is...
nope , observer effect is about a reaction to an action actually .
________________________________________________________________________________________________
Quantum Theory Demonstrated: Observation Affects Reality
ScienceDaily (Feb. 27, 1998) —
REHOVOT, Israel, February 26, 1998--
One of the most bizarre premises of quantum theory, which has long fascinated philosophers and physicists alike, states that by the very act of watching, the observer affects the observed reality.
February 26 issue of Nature (Vol. 391, pp. 871-874), researchers at the Weizmann Institute of Science have now conducted a highly controlled experiment demonstrating how a beam of electrons is affected by the act of being observed. The experiment revealed that the greater the amount of "watching," the greater the observer's influence on what actually takes place.
The research team headed by Prof. Mordehai Heiblum, included Ph.D. student Eyal Buks, Dr. Ralph Schuster, Dr. Diana Mahalu and Dr. Vladimir Umansky. The scientists, members of the Condensed Matter Physics Department, work at the Institute's Joseph H. and Belle R. Braun Center for Submicron Research.
When a quantum "observer" is watching Quantum mechanics states that particles can also behave as waves. This can be true for electrons at the submicron level, i.e., at distances measuring less than one micron, or one thousandth of a millimeter. When behaving as waves, they can simultaneously pass through several openings in a barrier and then meet again at the other side of the barrier. This "meeting" is known as interference.
Strange as it may sound, interference can only occur when no one is watching. Once an observer begins to watch the particles going through the openings, the picture changes dramatically: if a particle can be seen going through one opening, then it's clear it didn't go through another. In other words, when under observation, electrons are being "forced" to behave like particles and not like waves. Thus the mere act of observation affects the experimental findings.
To demonstrate this, Weizmann Institute researchers built a tiny device measuring less than one micron in size, which had a barrier with two openings. They then sent a current of electrons towards the barrier. The "observer" in this experiment wasn't human. Institute scientists used for this purpose a tiny but sophisticated electronic detector that can spot passing electrons. The quantum "observer's" capacity to detect electrons could be altered by changing its electrical conductivity, or the strength of the current passing through it.
Apart from "observing," or detecting, the electrons, the detector had no effect on the current. Yet the scientists found that the very presence of the detector-"observer" near one of the openings caused changes in the interference pattern of the electron waves passing through the openings of the barrier. In fact, this effect was dependent on the "amount" of the observation: when the "observer's" capacity to detect electrons increased, in other words, when the level of the observation went up, the interference weakened; in contrast, when its capacity to detect electrons was reduced, in other words, when the observation slackened, the interference increased.
Thus, by controlling the properties of the quantum observer the scientists managed to control the extent of its influence on the electrons' behavior. The theoretical basis for this phenomenon was developed several years ago by a number of physicists, including Dr. Adi Stern and Prof. Yoseph Imry of the Weizmann Institute of Science, together with Prof. Yakir Aharonov of Tel Aviv University. The new experimental work was initiated following discussions with Weizmann Institute's Prof. Shmuel Gurvitz, and its results have already attracted the interest of theoretical physicists around the world and are being studied, among others, by Prof. Yehoshua Levinson of the Weizmann Institute.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/1998/02/980227055013.htm
[ Last edited by blastoff at 4-2-2009 05:11 PM ] |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
ahah.o ok i got you ...
Originally posted by blastoff at 4-2-2009 02:51 PM
Let's see the quote first
I give you a clue , the sentence in black is the key to understand the italic one , can you figure it out dear ? Let me know what you think it mean ...
i think and lemme try...
i think the message is :
the scientist ( of the West ) are trying their best in producing the finest quality of fuzzy system through out the years. However, the system they have created I guess, still inadequate if we compared to the flawlessly - coordinated - human being , and the most they could produce is ASIMO -well in a way it is still an achievement though. It may not be near perfection as yet but dear sooner or later , with passion, patience and great motivation i think they could reach near perfection. I guess in inventing something out of knowledge ,and as the knowledge itself it's pretty fluid you know, meaning it keeps on being updated, improvised in which the previously thought theory has been proven wrong/ or being refuted and more - hard - and - sound and proven theory / law lah kan? is being accepted. so I would say , in each and every invention, we could see the inidaction that the newly acquired knowledge being applied . Same goes with computers etc etc..the more we know, more improvement in the products thus indicating how "fluid" the current knowledge could be. Tey are struggling yes, of course as they i.e human is the one who built the robot / system out of what they currently understood. They need to at least first learn and acquire the knowledge. Allah Is MOST knowledgeable...HE is the OWNER of knowledge, kan? |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
hmm?
In physics, the term observer effect refers to changes that the act of observation will make on the phenomenon being observed. This is often the result of instruments that, by necessity, alter the state of what they measure in some manner. This effect can be observed in many domains of physics.
if an instrument keeps on altering the state of the entity it is measuring
i just wondering what would the effect would be in terms of its validity and reliability? |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
but then , contih satu tool/ instrument ni , kan....
it could always be reliable as it is measuring what it is suppose to measure lah kan ? irrespective of how much "similar" disturbances in state it has caused but as long as the instrument will only affect one aspect of state alteration, it would then be considered ok?
yer ker ni?
kalau dia affect satu energy level but then later dia affect mass secara tak konsisten , then of course the reliability of this instrument would be questionable , right? |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
well, any comment on this
CERN certainly, basically dia give us upper limit of accuracy. maksudnya, katalah ada salesman nak jual an equipment yg very accurate (sampai melebihi uncertainty principle), hold on tightly to your LV purse la .. accelerator tu bukan quantum physicist punya fetish, tapi particle physicists . basically particle physicist ni, kalau teori ada lopong aje, terus dia create an imaginary particle to plug the hole in the theory. contohnya graviti, particle physicist kata two bodies exhibit gravitational attraction pasal ada particle yg bernama graviton exchanging between them. sedangkan relativiy pulak kata gravity tu akibat dari space-time curvature. anyway, lepas tu dia buat accelerator tu to prove or disprove the existence of the particle la.
.. just out of curiousity , kan ?
why they always said in quatum world the rules of the conventional / law of conventional physics doe snot apply?
why?
any comments on this ?
pssst ...post script : I do not have an LV purse just a black Purse from Mark and Spencer bought in 1999....dah lusuh dah ni ..
[ Last edited by mbhcsf at 5-2-2009 12:48 AM ] |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Originally posted by mbhcsf at 4-2-2009 01:33 PM
actually kan by thementioning of the word Night Journey ni Isra' & Mikraj ni , iamjust thinking of how fast is that entity kan? yg Prophet Muhammad SAWrode on his way up there?
My father said it has something to do with changing of "dimension" .Baginda needs to transgress the dimension actually in order to catchup with the Timing / temporal dimension in human world .
your dad is very VERY clueful! i have my own theory about the nature of dimensions of this physical world. yg tu boleh buat thread lain la kot. but anyhow, if it is still the physical world, it is still under the same physical laws (maximum speed of c, etc.), tapi bila dah citer israk mikraj ni, dah bukan physical world lagi dah, so all physical laws don't apply. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Originally posted by blastoff at 4-2-2009 03:12 PM
[quote]banyak lagi kisah lain di mana perintah Allah yg turun goes against all logic, tapi bila ikut di situlah kejayaan.
contohnya .... [/quote]
imagine this... u are surrounded by a lot of snakes. in your hand is a stick. if someone were to advise u to do something, what would be a logical advice? hit the snakes with the stick? or throw away your stick? |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Originally posted by mbhcsf at 5-2-2009 12:31 AM
if an instrument keeps on altering the state of the entity it is measuring
i just wondering what would the effect would be in terms of its validity and reliability?
itu pasal kena jadi engineer instead of scientist ... engineering = the art of approximation ... it is valid; up to a certain extent. it is reliable; up to a certain extent... and learn to live with the uncertainty... |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Originally posted by mbhcsf at 5-2-2009 12:44 AM
but then , contih satu tool/ instrument ni , kan....
it could always be reliableas it is measuring what it is suppose to measure lah kan ? irrespectiveof how much "similar" disturbances in state it has caused but as longas the instrument will only affect one aspect of state alteration, itwould then be considered ok?
yer ker ni?
kalau dia affect satu energy level but then later dia affect masssecara tak konsisten , then of course the reliability of thisinstrument would be questionable , right?
i think i understand what u are saying, but i'm not too sure.
then u picked an unfortunate example of measurement which affect both energy and mass. at the subatomic level, energy and mass dah not quite orthogonal; meaning they're not independent. well, at that level, energy and mass dah senang sangat nak bertukar bentuk with each other (energy mass equivalence), so if u measure energy, it will affect mass. if the mass is moving close to the speed of light, then it also affects time... D'OH! (bak kata homer simpson), not just that, the energy that u supply to the mass to accelerate it to near c would be converted into...mass! (due to the speed limit c) D'OH! lagi...
so, at that level, any measurement of something would affect everything else! |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| |
Category: Belia & Informasi
|
Post time 4-2-2009 01:38 PM
