Abdullah bin Saba

Gravedigger

Originally posted by Mat Kampong at 1-7-2006 09:40 PM
Untuk makluman semua..........

Jawapan thread penggalikubur ni ada kat sini:

http://al-firdaus.com/buku_syiah/Siri1/cover.htm

Baca jangan tak baca! Lepas tu boleh buat kesimpulan sendiri berdasarkan kekelentongan yang ada ataupun kalau benar inginkan kebenaran maka carilah orang yang ahli dalam bidangnya.

Seronok juga aku baca bab dialog antara Ja'far al Shiddiq dengan seorang syiah. Kenal ker orang-orang Sunni siapa Imam Ja'far al Shiddiq tu? Alahai....nak sebut nama Imam tu pun dah tak betul beb! Bukan Ja'far al Shidddiq lah...tapi Imam Ja'far al Sadiq AS. Mungkin nak samakan dengan Abu Bakar as Sidiq kot??
Lepas tu kan...dikatakan nama rawi tidak dinyatakan dengan jelas tapi tak mengapa sebab bla..bla...bla.

Hehehehe...mudahnya lagi kena kelentong!

Originally posted by Gravedigger at 2-7-2006 10:38 AM

Hehehehe...mudahnya lagi kena kelentong!  ...

Hehehehe...:nerd:

Gravedigger

Originally posted by carikubur at 3-7-2006 11:23 PM


Hehehehe...:nerd:

Dah abis modai ka???

Gravedigger

Abdullah bin Saba menyembunyikan dirinya di zaman pemerintahan Umar. Ia tidak berani keluar dan menjalankan konspirasinya kepada massa kerana diketahui Umar mempunyai kelebihan-kelebihan membaca firasat-firasat tertentu. Cerita seperti ini disamakan seperti cerita Nabi menyeru pertolongan dari jauh kepada Ali ketika peperangan Khaibar dulu. Umar lagi hebat dari nabi kerana dari atas mimbar di masjid saja dia boleh menyeru kepada tentera Islam supaya mencari perlindungan di atas bukit ketika mereka hendak di serang hendap oleh tentera kafir dalam satu peperangan. Memang hebat Umar ni tapi malangnya dia tak nampak musuh yang menikam dirinya sendiri.

Justeru kehebatan Umar ini membuatkan Abdullah bin Saba mendiamkan diri saja. Ia juga sedar bahawa jika ia tersilap kata  bermakna kepalanya akan bercerailah dengan badannya. Umar diakui seorang yang keras kepala dan berperwatakan keras. Hukumnya terletak di hujung pedang saja dan keputusannya muda....pancung saja. Abu Hurairah seorang yang lemah lembut pun selalu kena ugut dengan Umar sampaikan dia sendiri di warning oleh Umar supaya berdiam diri....jika tidak mahu kena ketuk atau dibelangkung oleh Umar.

Abdullah bin Saba menyepi diri.  

whale

sepi dan terus menyepi macam penggali.....:nyorok:

shaikh

Salam Selawat keatas Nabi Muhammad dan Ahlulbaitnya...

Ramai orang menfitnah bahawa Abdullah b Saba' adalah ketua ajaran syiah...beliau ini dari keturunan yahudi telah menimbulkan banyak kekalutan...maka saya sarankan agar jangan termakan racun ini carilah penawar yang dipercayai....kaji janganlah terimnya bulat2....

Wassalam

Laxamana.

Abdullah bin Saba' dikatakan Yahudi cerdik yang bertujuan memecah-belahkan Islam dan menubuhkan Syiah. Gerakan ini dikatakan dimulakan oleh dia di zaman Khalifah Othman. Kenapa di Malaysia ustaz-uztaz termasuk di radio mewar-warkan bahawa Abdullah bin Saba' ini yang mengasas Syiah? Adakah dakwaan ini benar dan sah? Di mana pula kedudukan Khalifah Ali sebagai pejuang utama agar kekhalifahan kekal kepada Ahlul Bait?

Dikisahkan oleb sebuah website seperti berikut mengenai Abdullah bin Saba' dan Syiah.

The Civil War
Othman's caliphate was marred by a terrible civil war. It led to the murder of the Caliph himself. Othman was a very gentle and soft-hearted man. He often overlooked the faults of others. This made the provincial governors and other officers overbold. Omar's stern hand had stopped his officers from adopting the undemocratic customs and practices of the courts of Iran and Byzantium. Othman's hand proved too weak to do the job. The result was unrest in the provincial capitals. It grew until it engulfed the whole of Islam.

Moreover, Othman was an old man when he took over. Clever people took advantage of his weakening grip on state affairs.

Abdullah bin Saba

Abdullah bin Saba, a clever Jew or Yemen, played a leading role in this drama. During Othman's calpihate, he came to Medina, and made a show of becoming a devout Muslim, but he had his own plans. He stayed for some months in Medina and studied things. He saw that Banu Hashim regarded the Caliphate their natural right. They thought that Ali, and not Othman, should have been the Caliph. Abdullah bin Saba determined to make capital out of this.

With great cunning, he set about his task. He made "love of the Holy Prophet and his relatives" his starting-point. Out of this, he spun a clever story. Every Prophet, he said, left behind a "Wasi." The Wasi must be a near relative of the Prophet. Aaron was the Wasi of Moses. In the same way, the Holy Prophet must also have a Wasi, to carry on his mission. Muhammad (peace be upon him) was the last of the Prophets. So, his Wasi, Ali, was the last of the Wasis. Being the Wasi, Ali was the only rightful man to be the Caliph. Othman, therefore had to be removed from the caliphate.

Abdullah bin Saba began to preach his views secretly. He visited important cities in the Muslim empire. In each city, he set up a secret society. He picked up men who lent an easy ear to what he said. These were generally the men who had some real or imaginary complaint against the officers. It was easy to tell these men that the Caliph was the real cause of all trouble.

When the network of secret societies was complete, Abdullah bin Saba set up his headquarters in Egypt. The secret societies rapidly increased their strength. For this they used the following method:

Their members made a great show of piety. They posed as the real well wishers of the people.

They invented complaints against Othman and his officers. Some of the complaints were no doubt real. Under cover of these, they also said things that did not exist.

A regular campaign was started against all officers. They were described as irreligions and inefficient.

Forged letters were sent from city to city. These letters talked of injustice and unrest in the city of origin. The Sabaites read out the letters to as many people as possible. Letters were also forged to show that Ali, Talha, Zubair and other noted Companions had full sympathy with the movement. This led people to think that there was widespread unrest and that the leading Companions wanted to remove the Caliph.

Laxamana.

Unrest in Provinces

Abdullah bin Saba's plan worked well. Basra was the capital of one of the provinces. Abu Musa Ashari was its governor. One day Abu Musa gave an address. In it he told the people how, in the early years of Islam, Muslims walked on foot all the way to the field of battle. He went on to explain what great reward such people had found from Allah.

After some days, Abu Musa had to goto a battle-front. He rode on a horse. This produced an uproar against him.

"Look at the Governor!" went round the story, "he says one thing and does another. Why does he go to the battlefield riding on a horse? Why does he not earn a greater reward from Allah by walking on foot?"

The agents of Ibn Saba played with the feelings of people. So much so, that the people get really angry with Abu Musa. A deputation marched to Medina. The Caliph foundh his hands forced to dismiss Abu Musa.

Abdullah bin Amir became the new governor of Basra. The Sabaites started a campaign against him too.

"He is a raw yougn man," they said, "moreover, he is a relative of the Caliph. Othman is filling all key-posts with his kinsmen."

Kufa in the Grip of Hooligans

Kufa was the capital of another province. Saad bin Waqqas was its governor. He was the conquerer of Iran. He took a loan out of public funds and could not return it in time. The complaint reached the Caliph and Othman dismissed him.

Saad was replaced by Wali bin Uqba. Walid was a strong man. He took quick action against mischief-mongers. Some of them one night broke into the house of a man. They took away all his money and killed him also. They were all arrested and put to death.

The death of this gang made Sabaites angry. A strong man like Walid bin Uqba was a real danger to them. So they brought a false complaint against him. They said that he was given to drinking. A deputation set off to Medina. Two men bore witness before the Caliph and his advisory council that they had seen their Governor drinking wine. Ali gave the ruling that the man was guilty. So Othman dismissed the Governor.

Walid was replaced by Saad bin As. The new governor received people at his house each night. He sat among them and discussed things with them. Everyone was free to drop in. The Sabaites came to these meetings in large numbers. Gradually, the started creating trouble. One night they came down upon a man and beat him in the presence of the Governor.

The Governor felt humbled. But he also felt helpless. The mischief-mongers were all-powerful. He could not lay hands on them. Things became so unbearable that the people wrote to the Caliph. They begged him to rid the city of the hooligans.

Othman wrote to the governor to send this gang to Muawia, in Syria. He hoped that Muawia would set them right. The Caliph's order was carried out. Muawia treated these people well. He tried to win them over with kindness. They began to be rude to Muawia. So Muawia wrote to the Caliph, telling him that he could do nothing to reform such bad men.

Othman next sent them to Abdur Rehman bin Khalid, the governor of Hims. Abdur Rehman was a stern man. He was really hard on these fellows. This brought them to senses. They repented for what they had done and promised to behave well in the future. Abdur Rehman informed the Caliph about it. Othman wrote back to him, telling him to send the men back to Kufa, if they really meant what they said. But once in Kufa they were as active in mischief-making as ever.

The Central Command

Abdullah bin Saba chose Egypt to be the center of his party. He did this for a number of reasons. In the first place, Egypt lay in the middle of the eastern and western wings of the empire. Secondly, Amr bin As, the former governor of Egypt, had been a popular governor. His successor, Abdullah bin Sarah, could not be equally popular. Amr bin As had been removed by Othman. This gave Saba ready ground to whip up discontent among the people. Thirdly, the North African campaign kept the new governor away from Egypt for more than a year. This gave Saba a free hand to work out his plans.

In Egypt Saba also had two powerful allies in Muhammad bin Hudhifa and Muhammad bin Abu Bakr. Both of them were against Othman. The former had been left an orphan and was brought up by Othman. When he grew up, he asked the Caliph to make him the Governor of some province. Othman did not see him fit for so high an office and turned down the request. This made Muhammad bin Hudhifa angry with the Caliph. He came over to Egypt and became active against Othman.

Muhammad bin Abu Bakr was also angry with the Caliph on personal grounds. He had been brought up by Ali. His mother, the widow of Abu Bakr, had married Ali, after the first Caliph's death. Muhammad bin Abu Bakr owed a debt to a certain creditor. He failed to pay back the money in time. The creditor complained to the Caliph. Othman was very impartial in his ruling. This offended Muhammad bin Abu Bakr. So he also came to Egypt and joined hands with the enemies of the Caliph.

Abdullah bin Saba took full advantage of these factors. The central command of the Sabaites in Egypt sent forth a flood of propoganda against Othman. Letters poured into each city, telling stories of the terrible plight of people in other places. Local Sabaite agents gave full publicity to these letters. Before long the people of each city came to think that theirs was the happinest lot. They came to believe that life was unbearable in other parts of the Mulsim empire. And they held the Caliph responsible for this all.

The means of communication being difficult in those days, people had no way of knowing the real truth about life in provinces other than their own. The Sabaites took full advantage of this situation.

The Socialist Companion

Since Omar's day, Muawia had been the governor of Syria. Muawia was a very wise and tactful ruler. He knew how to keep the situation in hand. So the Sabaite agents had no success in Syria.

Abu Dhar Ghiffari, a well-known Companion of the Holy Prophet, lived in Syria. He always kept aloof from the affairs of the world and its riches. He held that public income should be spent on the poor the moment it was received. He was against hoarding any money in the public treasury. "Public money is people's money," he said, "and should be spent on people the moment it comes in." Muawia was of a different view. He thought that public income could be kept in the treasury to meet unforseen public needs of the future. He called public money "Allah's money." He said that the ruler, as the agent of Allah, had a right to spend public money as he thought fit. Abu Dhar thought otherwise.

In Syria Saba tried to take advantage of the difference of opinion between the Governor and Abu Dhar, the noted Companion. He went to Abu Dhar and said, "It is strange that Muawia calls public money, 'the money of Allah.' He means there by that people should have no say about the way public money is spent."

Abu Dhar easily fell into the Sabaite trap. He went straight to Muawia and said, "How is it that you call public money the 'money of Allah'?"

"Oh Abu Dhar?" replied Muawia mildly, "we are all the servants of Allah. So all our money is Allah's money."

The reply did not satisfy Abu Dhar.

"All right," siad Muawia, "in future I will call this money public money."

Now Abu Dhar raised another point. He preached that the rich had no right to amass wealth. Whatever was over and above their immediate needs, he said, should be given away to the poor. In support of this, he cited the following words of the Qur'an:

"They who hoard up gold and silver and spend it not in the way of Allah, tell them of a painful doom on the day when it will all be heated in the fire of hell. Then their foreheads, their flanks and their backs will be branded therwith. Here is what you hoarded for yourselves. Now taste of what you used to hoard."

Here again Muawia differed with Abu Dhar. He held that after a man had paid the poor-rate of two and a half percent, he was free to own health.

Abu Dhar's views made a great appeal to the masses. The great majority of people were poor. They wanted to share the comforts of the rich. Abu Dhar's movement began to gain ground rather rapidly.

Muawia wrote about this to Othman. The Caliph wrote back that Abu Dhar be sent to Medina, with all the honor due to him.

In Medina, Abu Dhar started the same movement. Othman called him and said, "O Abu Dhar, I will force people to pay whatever they owe to Allah and His Apostle. In return, I will grant them the rights they have over me. But I can force no one to give up the world."

"Well, then send me out of Medina," said Abu Dhar, "The Prophet of Allah told me to leave Medina when it had expanded up to Salah."

So Othman sent Abu Dhar to a small village away from Medina. He gave him some camels and also two servants to look after him.

Other Factors

It is true that Abdullah bin Saba and his men did much to stir up discontent against Othman. But it is equally true that under Othman several things did go wrong. Things were very smooth when Othman took over. In the years that followed, disturbing factors slowly crept in.

Gravedigger

Jika benarlah wujudnya Abdullah ibnu Saba ini maka kita bolehlah mengangkatnya sebagai seorang tokoh yang begitu hebat sehingga berjaya mengucar-kacirkan persatuan Islam malah sehingga dapat memperdayakan sahabat-sahabat nabi sendiri. Nampak juga seolah-olah Islam itu lemah dan bodoh sehingga tidak mampu menghadapi konspirasi cerdik daripada orang Yahudi.

Sayangnya golongan yang dikatakan hasil ciptaan daripada Abdullah Ibnu Saba itu sendiri tidak ada kesinambungan daripada peristiwa-peristiwa yang direka-reka oleh ahli sejarah tersebut.

Persoalannya siapakah pengikut atau anak murid tok guru Ibnu Saba ini yang telah berjaya mewujudkan satu mazhab baru dalam Islam? Jika syiah adalah hasil daripada pengikut Ibnu Saba ini maka amat heran kerana tidak ada langsung dalil-dalil atau hujjah-hujjah mereka dalam agama disandarkan atau bersumberkan Ibnu Saba. Mereka hanya dikaitkan kepada ahlul-bait as sahaja.

Kalau sekadar nak bercerita...sesiapa pun boleh menceritakan mengikut kehendaknya, lebih-lebih lagi kalau seseorang nak menceritakan tentang keburukan musuhnya.

[ Last edited by  Gravedigger at 18-10-2006 01:05 PM ]

Laxamana.

Itulah... Ustaz2 di radio kita pun dengan mudah mengambil cerita Abdullah bin Saba' ni dan war-warkan kepada umum... akan tetapi tiada siapa yang benar-benar mahu melakukan pengkajian ilmiah berkenaan Mazhab Ja'fari atau Syiah ni, atau pun melihat akan benar atau tidak nya dakwaan Yahudi dsb nya... Kita perlu lebih telus untuk menjadi insan kelas pertama seperti kata Pak Lah...Saya pernah mendengar bahawa ustaz2 Syiah ada yang di ISA kan... Makna nya ada Special Branch atau apa-apa branch yang bertugas mengawasi Syiah lah...

sakinahmawaddah

Jejak rasul 12 juga menyebut nama ini
Abdullah bin Saba' muncul sebagai pemberontak di zaman Usman
diambil pula sirah yg dipapar dalam jejak Rasul dari buku sirah Ibn Hisham
jadi bagaimana?
malangnya buku sirah ibnu Hisyam ini tidak ada ditangan
dan bagaimana dengan kajian ilmiah mengenai Abdullah bin Saba' ni?
boleh dapat kat mana2?
dlm al-firdaus.com juga menyebut, dan mengesahkan wujud orang ini, tapi tidak dijumpai sebagai sumber periwayatan dalam hadis2
bagaimana Abdullah bin Saba' ini mempengaruh?

serihartatie

Originally posted by sakinahmawaddah at 20-10-2006 12:40 PM
Jejak rasul 12 juga menyebut nama ini
Abdullah bin Saba' muncul sebagai pemberontak di zaman Usman
diambil pula sirah yg dipapar dalam jejak Rasul dari buku sirah Ibn Hisham
jadi bagaimana?
mal ...

siapa Abdullah bin Saba tak penting...tapi Syiah yg mencela sahabat2 utama RSAW dan isteri2 RSAW itu yg perlu diperbetulkan iktikad mereka...

bila sahabat2 RSAW di kafirkan, mereka secara tidak langsung menghina RSAW.
bila isteri2 RSAW dicela, mereka secara tidak langsungmencela RSAW.

kemudian utk memperbetulkan perbuatan mereka, mereka bersandarkan CERITA2 SEJARAH dan hadis2 yg hanya diiktiraf dalam Syiah serta memPERGUNAKAN nama2 ahlulbait utk menguatkan hujah mereka,...

syiah oh syiah ...

Di mana logiknya kenyataan mereka bahawa mereka mencintai RSAW?

pipi

Originally posted by serihartatie at 20-10-2006 12:50 PM


siapa Abdullah bin Saba tak penting...tapi Syiah yg mencela sahabat2 utama RSAW dan isteri2 RSAW itu yg perlu diperbetulkan iktikad mereka...

bila sahabat2 RSAW di kafirkan, mereka secara ti ...

pandai pula mengatakan "watak utama dalam SYiah" tak penting... pandai betul pusing-pusing. Jika itulah iktiqad anda,

"Allah mengemukakan satu misal perbandingan (yang menyatakan tidak ada manfaatnya) bagi orang-orang kafir (berhubung rapat dengan orang-orang mukmin selagi mereka tidak beriman dengan sebenar-benarnya), iaitu: Perihal isteri Nabi Nuh dan isteri Nabi Lut; mereka berdua berada di bawah jagaan dua orang hamba yang soleh dari hamba-hamba Kami (yang sewajibnya mereka berdua taati); dalam pada itu mereka berlaku khianat kepada suami masing-masing; maka kedua-dua suami mereka (yang berpangkat Nabi itu) tidak dapat memberikan sebarang pertolongan kepada mereka dari (azab) Allah dan (sebaliknya) dikatakan kepada mereka berdua (pada hari pembalasan): Masuklah kamu berdua ke dalam Neraka bersama-sama orang-orang yang masuk (ke situ)" (Surah At-Tahrim: 10)

Lalu bagaimana pula dengan sahabatnya Isa yang berpaling tadah?

sakinahmawaddah

bagaimana standard menyintai Rasulullah tu Kak Seri?
dlm Quran~Mawaddah fi Qurba
explicit tu permintaan Rasulullah

tengok Syiah ni tak tau la taqiyyah ke mereka ni
bila sebut nama2 kerabat Rasulullah
berkaca-kaca biji mata mereka
belum lagi bercerita
berjujuran air mata

sakinahmawaddah

logik mudah je kak seri
kalau kita dapat membuktikan kebenaran susur galur Syiah dari Abdullah bin Saba munafik Yahudi
senang-senang je kita 'nullify'kan dema ni from the starting point
lagi senang, tak yah susah2 debate cerita cabang2 dn panjang2

vato

Dok perati dari jauh jer...nampak macam ASWJ dah tak der hujah2 yang menyengat lak...:geram:

Gravedigger

Originally posted by vato at 8-11-2006 02:27 AM
Dok perati dari jauh jer...nampak macam ASWJ dah tak der hujah2 yang menyengat lak...:geram:

Kalau ASWJ versi Abuya memang dah takder lagi kot. Lama dah kantoi lalu terusan nyepi diri.

vato

Tengah fikir lojik nie...:hmm:
Kalau Abdullah Saba tu Yahudi, macamana dia mendapat pengiktirafan dikalangan Arab yang terkenal dengan asabiyahnya. Tambahannya Islam pada masa tu masih kuat di negeri2 Asia Barat..:ting:
Nanti...tengah dok digest info lagi...:hmm:

ahmadi_bangi

Mempercayai kewujudan Abdullah bin Saba bukanlah sebahagian dari rukun iman...... terserah pada masing2 untuk menerima atau menolak... tak menjejaskan keimanan seseorg walau sedikit pun...ini berbeza dengan keghaiban imam yg dipercayai oleh golongan Syiah...... membuktikan wujud atau tidak Abdullah bin Saba' tidak memberi erti yg besar pada kesempurnaan islam ttp membuktikan kewujudan imam yg ghaib adalah lebih ptg untuk dibahaskan...

[ Last edited by  ahmadi_bangi at 13-11-2006 02:29 PM ]

serihartatie

Originally posted by ahmadi_bangi at 13-11-2006 02:05 PM
Mempercayai kewujudan Abdullah bin Saba bukanlah sebahagian dari rukun iman...... terserah pada masing2 untuk menerima atau menolak... tak menjejaskan keimanan seseorg walau sedikit pun...ini berbe ...

betul tu, awal2 lagi sy dah kata wujud atau tk wujud Abdullah Saba tu tk penting...kalau sakinahmawaddah nak ikut LOGIK dia, persilakan..tetapi sy bersependapat dgn ahmadi bangi dalam hal ini...so tk perlulah nak bertegang urat leher lak...boring lah...kak sakinah ooiii...

kak sakinah, satu lagi mana ler kak sakinah tau org ASWJ tk bercucran airmata bila sebut RSAW cam org Syiah dok tangis huhuhuhu tu, mungkin ASWJ tk huhuhuhu tapi airmata keluar tanpa esak tangis tanda kesedihan yg amat sgt, seperti juga RSAW menangis bila megenangkan nasib ahlulbait yg akan menerima bala bencana selepas pemergiannya...dan kerinduan RSAW kepada ikhwannya dan sedih kerana ikhwannya di akhir zaman akan ditimpa segala macam penderitaan walaupun semata-mata tujuan mereka utk menegakkan kembali agama Allah yg murni ini dimukabumi dan mengembalikan pemerintahan khalifah kepada keturunan RSAW.


org ASWj bukan sahaja menangis mengenangkan nasib ahlulbait tetapi juga kdg2 menangis sebab rindu sgt kat RSAW, rindu yg teramat rindu...menangis sebab terasa besar sgt dosa selama ini kerana tidak mampu dan tidak layak menjadi umatnya yg sejati..rasa besalah yg amat sgt kepada RSAW kerana dosa-dosa...dan berbagai - bagai lagi...

[ Last edited by  serihartatie at 13-11-2006 08:04 PM ]