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[quote]Quote:
[quote]Quote: Originally Posted by SlaserX
[quote]Quote: Originally Posted by Iwanin
写輪眼の本当の力が |
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[quote]I would say this is a little wrong. It's true that when he talks about "この" he's talking about himself. BUT, here comes my point. うちはマダラの力 which means he isn't talking about うちはマダラ but about his power (力;).
like this sentence: さくらの木 (sakura no ki = cherry blossom tree), the sentence isn't talking about "sakura" but about the "tree" which is now explained as a "sakura tree" because of the "の".
Ok, we continue with my point. In a later picture you see his Sharingan. Could this mean that he's reffering (この, he's clearly talking about himself) to that he posseses the sharingan (力;) which orginates from うちはマダラ? (because it was うちはマダラ's power from the beginning)
PLZ tell me if you think it's wrong and why it's wrong. I'm still studying it here in Japan so ^^
He is indeed talking about "power" ... what were saying is that, in Japanese, as a rule of interpretation, when the name of a person follows "kono", that person is necessarily the speaker himself. "Kono person name" means, always "I, person name." Never will it mean a third person, ever, nor will "kono" modify any subsequent element in the sentence, such as power.
Thus, the way the sentence would look if you were to omit "Uchiha Madara" is not "Kono chikara", but "Watashi no chikara" - Watashi needed to replace "kono Uchiha Madara."
私　　　　　　　　　　　の　　力
このうちはマダラ　　の　　力
As to why この うちはマダラの 力 ( from which we get この　力 by omitting うちはマダラ;)is not possible as an interpretation, the most we can do to convince anyone is to point to the rule of interpretation above, and say, as Nihongaeri did, "trust us" - we're not making this rule up.
Hope this post helps.[/quote] |
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[quote]If Tobi just wanted to refer to the power of Uchiha Madara and not refer to himself as Madara, he would have left out "この" before his name.
うちはマダラの力 = Uchiha Madara's power (but not "my" power)
このうちはマダラの力 = I, Uchiha Madara's power (implying that he at least thinks he is Uchiha Madara).
うちはマダラの力 would have indeed conveyed a very different idea, i.e, Uchiha Madara's power.
The same idea would also be conveyed by "うちはマダラ　の　この ちから, |
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I totally agree with Hisshouburaiken. We should consider two points:
- The use of "kono" is typical of a boastful kind of speech, often found in villains. Tobi is saying he's Madara Uchiha. No doubt.
- The use of "ga" as a particle in the end of a phrase... If you have a fair amount of experience in translating japanese, you may have come across it quite often.
[quote]don't forget that kono is a combination of ko (right here) and no (one), so literally it could be translated into "The sharingan's true power,the one right here uchiha madara's power"
It's already been addressed in this thread (so please do read all the posts if you haven't), but this is not a possible translation. The "kono" in this case is not to be translated as "this", "this one right here" or any other such permutation (the "ko" from "kono", BTW, does not exist as a separate word in modern Japanese). It is instead something that is added before one's own name (or a first person pronoun) to add an air of arrogance or otherwise suggest that you are a "big deal".[/quote]
so kalo baca semua nie dan paham (kalo tak tau huruf2 hiragana tu cuba carik kt japanese to english translator yg free kt tenet), mmg Tobi adalah Uchiha Madara tanpa ragu2. Tapi nie tak disqualify kemungkinan Uchiha Madara adalah Obito lak. tapi bagi aku personally rasa Tobi dgn Obito adalah dua org berbeza dan tak sama. Tobi adalah Uchiha Madara tapi tak tau adakah Uchiha Madara Uchiha Obito???? tu kenalah tunggu sampai tiba masanya.... |
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anyway kalo yg mls nak baca atau cam kurang phm psl benda nie...
Tobi tu, bila dia ckp "This power, the power of Uchiha Madara" bukannya merujuk yg dia yg sedang memegang kuasa Uchiha Madara tetapi DIA sendiri adalah Uchiha Madara sbb cara dia ckp tu adalah cara belagak dan cara seorg villain biasenya ckp dlm bahasa jepun. senang ckp, dia sedang ckp diri dia from a THIRD PERSON PERSPECTIVE. rasanya korang mesti tau benda nie kan....ada sesetgh org yg cam blagak suka ckp diri mereka dgn menggunakan nama sendiri instead of guna "Saya" "Aku" dan sebagainya utk kata nama ganti diri yg pertama. Contohnya ada sesetgh artis barat ske guna cara nie cam Elton John, Mariah Carey dan Madonna kadang2. cara nie dianggap cam berlagak la sbb guna third person utk panggil diri sendiri. So Uchiha Madara tu cam berlagak la bila dia guna kata ganti nama sendiri utk ganti kata ganti diri yg pertama. |
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bagus ko nyer posting ler irving.
entah naper masih ader yg still harapkan tobi = obito.....sgt heran ler.... |
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Reply #1797 musangbuluayam's post
aku tk rase merru belagak ler.
die just nk luahkan pendpt die jer.
oh yer aku tk rase emak naruto tuh in akatsuki ler.
but will c about this. tapi aku yakin yg emak naruto bukan akatsuki. |
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erm... senang2 tunggu je cerita betul keluar nanti  |
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Reply #1808 pinguin's post
lagi btul kate ko ler.
aku dari dulu tk penah nk buat spekulasi nih...just wait n tunggu jer.
cz byk lg bende nk pikir ler. |
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tu lah asyik nak bertekak jer.. sabarlah sket.. tunggu je cerita sebenar keluar.. semua puas hati |
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 mane ko jupe explaination tu...
nk bace gk...
thanks for that irving....real happy to know the real translation of it.... |
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just wait and see...
kishi punya cerita tentu sukar dijangka persembahannya...
kita hanya boleh berspekulasi sahaja...
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In any case, even translator kat forum-forum sana pun masih bercanggah pendapat, tapi kemungkinan untuk Tobi itu sebenarnya Obito masih ada. Kishi is a genius, mungkin dia saja buat begitu supaya fans boleh continue to speculate sapa sebenarnya Tobi. Perangai Tobi yang sebenar hanya terserlah lepas dia guna dimensional transport untuk balik ke Land of Evil Rain straight dari tempat dia lepaskan diri dari suicide-bomb si Deidara.
Kalau ditengok balik, ada beberapa conversation anggota Akatsuki yang dorang sendiri tak tahu siapa Tobi. Masa Deidara suicide-bomb, diorang (tak silap aku Kisame ngan Zetsu) sembang kata "Tobi must have died from the explosion too." or something like that, kemudian "A man of his calibre can easily be found again out there".
"What a great loss, Tobi who can turn a gloomy organization like the Akatsuki to merrier one" or something like that, aku malas nak quote direct 
Jadi maknanya diorang sendiri pun tak tau apa sebenarnya capacity / capability Tobi (kecuali Itachi, dia diam saja masa tu). Kiranya, diorang anggap Tobi masuk untuk ganti Sasori saja sedangkan masa Tobi transport balik ke Land of Evil Rain tu Pein nampaknya dengar cakap Tobi. Masa tu baru kita perasan yang Tobi ni sebenarnya mungkin penasihat / atau ketua Akatsuki.
Either way, aku rasa kalau benar Tobi = Obito, it will be a very interesting twist indeed. Either way, aku tak tau apa motif Obito join Akatsuki (kalau Obito adalah Tobi) tapi aku rasa kemungkinan yang besar ialah dia rasa diri dia telah di betray oleh Konoha (ini cuma personal speculation aku saja).
[ Last edited by Santeira at 30-8-2007 03:13 PM ] |
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Reply #1815 Santeira's post
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atau cerita kishi akan berubah-ubah, mengambil idea dari forum |
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Reply #1816 munkyG's post
Ler, sebagai peminat Naruto, suka hati orang ler nak speculate. Speculations spark interest dan akan menambahkan minat orang-orang untk mengikutinya, bukan nak suruh Kishimoto ambil idea tu bulat2. Hang tak nak spekulasi, pergi buat benda yang hang rasa berfaedah. Untuk spekulasi atau tak itu hak masing-masing la. Janji tak hina orang tertentu.
Pendapat tu biasalah, lain orang lain pendapat. Tujuan thread dibuka adalah untuk masing-masing beri pendapat masing-masing atau kemukakan fakta. Kalau ini pun tak boleh, masing-masing tak payah berforum pun tak apa. This is just a forum after all. Kalau dak buat apa orang-orang putih tu semua bukak forum dan discuss? Kalau Kishi tak baca forum diorang, forum ni lagilah dia tak pandang, bukan dia faham bahasa kita pun. Tapi Melayu (bukan semua melayu) biasalah, tak boleh tengok orang kreatif sikit. Cepat betul dia nak tunjuk dia lagi bagus sbb dia tak mo speculate. To each his own lah, kawan.
[ Last edited by Santeira at 30-8-2007 05:57 PM ] |
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Reply #1816 munkyG's post
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mungkin dia akan ubah fikiran lepas baca speckulasi dari peminat |
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Reply #1819 narcolepsy's post
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Post time 29-8-2007 08:30 PM
