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Adakah ini sejarah asal islam yang telah di manipulasi oleh bangsa arab?

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Author: FOTHERMUCKER2       Show all posts   Read mode

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Post time 2-11-2018 09:36 PM | Show all posts |Read mode
Edited by FOTHERMUCKER2 at 4-11-2018 07:55 AM



Thread ni untuk @sam1528!

Zakir Naik bagi tau tohan hindu hanya satu sahaja jika mengikut original VEDAS.. tetapi lebai samdol pandai pandai bagi tau forumer bahawa tohan hindu ada banyak beribu ribu
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ROhEs09ifE0

1)
silakan tengok sampai habis. Bangsa arab pun sudah confuse dan bangsa arab juga tidak menafikan bahawa di mekah hanyalah padang pasir yang tiada apa apa...tidak sama apa yang di klim dalam quraan, jadi.. Apa itu dan dimana sebenarnya Mecca dan arah mana sebenarnya kiblat?
Sila ambil masa..documentari lebih kurang 1jam 25minit.
Ini sangat interesting memgenai sejarah islam >>>>> https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qOnGvzVceVo


2)
Didalam quraan banyak menceritakan kisah kisah di becca ataupun Petra jika di bandingkan dengan Mecca di arab Saudi yang hanya sekali disebutkan.
TENGOK VIDEO NI https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GTJX-zuK974


3)
Every Qibla for every mosque up to and including 706 AD was facing Petra! Yet Muhammad died in 632 AD, over 70 years earlier!After 706 AD, some began facing another direction, directly between Petra and Mecca, suggesting these were making a politial statement.

TENGOK VIDEO NI https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZKcpDEEJnA

4)
Rarely are we told that everything we possess on Muhammad's life and saying do not come from anyone who was living at that time (i.e. eyewitness account) but was only written down between 200 C 240 years after the fact, by people who never knew him, nor even lived in the same country he lived.
TENGOK VIDEO NI https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jn3hRQNcvy


For more discussion mengenai islam kamu boleh search di youtube.. Al Fadi dan Jay Smith.



Di bawah ni response DAN G dia kepada king. Kena lihat dua belah pihak.Saya tidak panggil dia penipu kerana research dia juga berdasarkan dari banyak aspect.
Jikalau kamu malas nak tengok documentary by Dan G tu..kamu boleh tengok YouTube 2-4 setiap discussion lebih kurang 30 minit. Didalam quraan banyak berkisahkan tentang petra di Nabatean Jordan . Penerangan yang cukup bagus.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/321708416_Response_to_David_King_with_attached_article_from_httpmuslimheritagecomarticlefrom-petra-back-to-makka_It_basically_argues_that_Dr_King_did_not_challenge_the_my_data_nor_my_research_but_simply_denies_





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Post time 2-11-2018 10:02 PM From the mobile phone | Show all posts
kau pon kena ban jua? koh3... patutla aku rase mcm dok dlm kelas pandai, sume baik je ngan sopan koh3
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 Author| Post time 2-11-2018 10:11 PM | Show all posts
kedaikain replied at 2-11-2018 10:02 PM
kau pon kena ban jua? koh3... patutla aku rase mcm dok dlm kelas pandai, sume baik je ngan sopan koh ...

Siapa ni?

Saya belum diban lagi.
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Post time 2-11-2018 11:36 PM From the mobile phone | Show all posts
Tak sangka u masih research ttg isu ni. Gigihnya u
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Post time 3-11-2018 12:01 AM From the mobile phone | Show all posts
Sketsa selingan

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 Author| Post time 3-11-2018 12:22 AM | Show all posts
Gingerly replied at 2-11-2018 11:36 PM
Tak sangka u masih research ttg isu ni. Gigihnya u

Well, lelobaies 2 abdol tu arrogant sangat!
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Post time 3-11-2018 09:59 AM | Show all posts
Ha ha ha ha .... he he he he ... tak cukup ke ko malukan diri sendiri FOTHER-MUCKER?

Sampai skg si Dan Gibson (yg hanya ada sekadar entry level qualification in theology) tak mampu bagi tau apa teknik dia gunakan utk determine macamana mesjid tersebut kononnya mengadap Petra
6. Dr. King then noted that Gibson claims that King claims  that early Qiblas were wildly
inaccurate. OK, I concede this point. Dr. King calls them approximate solutions. I used the
words wildly inaccurate.
Dah banyak kali ditanya soalan tersebut ... jawapan masih yilek

Kot2 dia hanya gunakan 'google earth' aje .... this is very poor lah tambi

Research dia (kononnya research lah) has caused extreme embarrassment in the Christian Missionary Community pasal they are now the laughing stock sampai Zwemer Centre pon dah tulis refutation (Is Petra the Islam's true birthplace or Mecca?) terhadap Dan Gibson oleh Mark Anderson :
Revisionists variously claim the following evidence supports their theory:
• The textual and cartographic data
• The Qurans geographic data
• The hadiths picture of Mecca
• The archeological record
• Al-Tabaris historical record
• Meccas geographic conditions    ......



Revisionists must reckon with two other facts which argue strongly against Islams Nabatean or northern origins:
• Quranic references to the pagans practices of idol worship and animal sacrifice
• The presence of no less than 200 Amharic and Ethiopic loanwords in the Quran6 ......


The Byzantines had forbidden both idol worship and animal sacrifice long before Muhammads timeincluding in their province of Arabia Petraea.7 Yet the Quran repeatedly refers to idolatry as a contemporary practice, calling the unbelievers to forsake their idols, which they look to for protection (e.g., Q 2:256-57, 16:36) ....

If the Qurans early suras were given in Petra, one might expect more Coptic than Amharic and Ethiopic loanwords since Nabatea had a much closer cultural connection with Egypt than with Ethiopia. Yet Amharic and Ethiopic words in the Quran stand in a 20:1 ratio to Coptic words. (Aramaic and Syriac, on the other hand, exerted major influence on the entire region, even far-off Yemen.) Thus, from both these perspectives the Hijaz is the more likely location of Islams emergence. And while the Quran mentions Mecca by name only once, it never mentions Petra at all.


Third, since the hadith clearly exaggerate in glorifying Mecca, we must take their hyperbolic descriptions of its grandeur and lush vegetation for what they are.9


Hadith sources consistently disagree when hyperbolizing. It is where they consistently agree that we should pay attention. And they consistently make Mecca Islams birthplace.

...revisionists make relates to early mosque orientation. Writer and documentary filmmaker Dan Gibson claims close agreement in the qibla, or prayer direction,of most of Islams earliest mosquesbut to Petra, not Mecca.12 Frankly speaking, however, this is impossible since their builders used conflicting methods to determine the qibla

Of the proposed answers to this question, two call for our consideration. Gibson puts forward a highly implausible hypothesis that Muslims formerly called Petra Mecca, a hypothesis endorsed by Christian apologist Jay Smith. This would mean there were two Meccas, the first being Petra, the second being the Kaabas current home in Saudi Arabia. Gibson bases this theory on the testimony of a 9th-10th century Christian historian named Thomas Artsruni, who wrote that Muhammad had preached in Mecca, located in Arabia Petraea Paran. According to Gibson, Thomas locates Mecca in Petra, in southern Jordan.18
However, Thomas locates Mecca, not in the city of Petra at all, but only in the Byzantine province of Arabia Petraea, specifically in its Paran regionin Sinai. Two things explain Thomass mistake
Too bad lah tambi , the above bit part extract adalah dari geng christian sendiri yg kantoikan si Dan Gibson (yg hanya ada sekadar entry level qualification in theology)

Ni conclusion dari artikel tersebut :
By my reckoning, then, the score is Mecca 7, Petra 0. Muslims do not mistakenly face the wrong direction when they pray. All the available evidence points to Mecca as Islams true birthplace.

Apa cerita tambi?

LOL , artikel2 yg jadik rujukkan aku adalah dari real scholars not some two bit person yang hanya sekadar entry level qualification in theology , ie. Dan Gibson

So far :
- Dan Gibson (yg hanya ada sekadar entry level qualification in theology) tak mampu jawab teknik apa dia gunakan utk klaim mesjid menghadap Petra
- Semua poin yg digunakan utk argue Islam dari Petra dikantoikan oleh Mark Anderson

Macam Mark Anderson kata : The score now is Mecca 7 , Petra 0

Ko hanya dapat kosong lah tambi ...

Zakir naik kata tuhan Hindu satu aje ... only correct to a point pasal Brahma adalah bapak kepada several prajapathis


Pasal apa ko hanya cakap pasal 'half truth'?

Kah kah kah .... FOTHER-MUCKER kantoi lagi .... bila lagi nak maki hamun - potong credit tau ... ngak ngak ngak


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 Author| Post time 3-11-2018 10:20 AM | Show all posts
Edited by FOTHERMUCKER2 at 4-11-2018 08:34 AM

Oleh kerana kamu raja google forum CARI..cuba google nama nama ni
1) Dr John Wansborough (SOAS: Quranic studies, Sect. Milieu)
2) Dr Gerald Hawting (SOAS: 1st c. of Islam)-
3) Dr Patricia Cröne (Princeton: Meccan trade, 15 languages)
4) Dr Andrew Rippin (Calgary: Muslims, Their beliefs/Practices)
5) Dr Robert Hoyland (Oxford: Seeing Islam as Others, 18 lang.)-
6) Dr Yehuda Nevo (Jerusalem: Crossroads to Islam, inscriptions)
7) Dr Gunther Lűling,
8) Dr Gerd-Rdiger Puin,
9) Dr Hans-Caspar Graf von Bothmer,
10) Dr Karl-Heinz Ohlig (Germany, earkt Qur'anic MSS)
11) Professor John Healey

Memalukan diri sendiri?
MASIH NAK NAME CALLING? Saya tiada hall! Nanti kamu juga yang sentap seperti pondan!

(Dah banyak kali ditanya soalan tersebut ... jawapan masih yilek Kot2 dia hanya gunakan 'google earth' aje .... this is very poor lah tambi)
UNTUK PENGETAHUAN KAMU DAN G TIDAK MENGGUNAKAN GOOGLE EARTH, DIA BUKAN TARAF KAKI GOOGLE DAN DUDUK DEPAN SCREEN COMPUTER SEPERTI KAMU SAMBL SAMBIL PERASAN TERLALU CERDIK PANDAI...TAPI YILEKKKK..NOTHING.. KAMU HANYALAH SEORANG SAMDOL SAHAJA!

ARGUMENT YANG SANGAT LEMAH DAN CHILDISH DARI KAKI GOOGLE!
(Ko hanya dapat kosong lah tambi ...)

Kalau setakat king sorang tu tak setuju ada apa hal? King tu lebih untuk menjaga sensitivitys orang islam sahaja. Tengok sahaja response Dan G pada king!

Dah terang terang dalam quraan dan hadis pun banyak memberitahu tentang becca ataupun Petra Nabatean di Jordan sana. ADA BERAPA BANYAK DALAM QURAAN SEBUT PASAL MECCA ARAB SAUDI?

Sewaktu pembanggunan semejak puluhan tahun dahulu dan masih dalam pembanggunan sekarang ni di Mecca arab Saudi ada ke dia orang jumpa artifact silam? Non hado!

Tengok sahajalah sejarah islam di YouTube tu dari jay smith dan al fadi. Nampak sangat kamu telah di putarbelitkan oleh bangsa arab! Sampai sekarang pun bangsa arab masih tidak berubah semejak ribuan tahun dahulu! Kekekek...masih nak percaya dengan bangsa arab?

Salah satu discuss al fadi dan jay smith! https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GTJX-zuK974

YouTube 1) Al Fadi dan Jay Smith>> https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jn3hRQNcvyE In March of 2018 Al Fadi invited Dr Jay Smith to his studio to record with him a number of videos on the historical problems concerning Islam's beginnings, and other areas of historical interest.In this series, they are discussing the problems with what we know concerning Islam's emergence onto the world stage.They begin this first episode by assessing the classical account of Muhammads life, his time in Mecca, his movement to Medina, and his reception of the Quran between 610 C 632 ADIt is this account that we are taught in our schools and universities, and the only account that Muslims are told to believe. Yet, few people have bothered to critique or question it...until now.Rarely are we told that everything we possess on Muhammad's life and saying do not come from anyone who was living at that time (i.e. eyewitness account) but was only written down between 200 C 240 years after the fact, by people who never knew him, nor even lived in the same country he lived.

YouTube 2) HISTORIAN NOW DOUBT HOW ISLAM BEGAN https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-JukhzRNB4k We now come to the very real problems with Islam's history, from the perspective of the historians themselves.
Since so much of what is classically known about how Islam began is derived from the 9th and 10th centuries, for what was happening in the 7th century (thus, around 200 - 300 years too late), historians are concerned by such a time discrepancy. So, they have decided to return to the 7th century, and find out what exactly the historical evidence tells us. And what they are finding is not very encouraging. For instance:-The first Arab inscription referencing Muhammad is in 691 AD, yet it should be from the time Muhammad lived, in 632 AD, or before.


Suggesting no Arab referred to Muhammad for 60 years following his death (Volker Popp-Ohlig & Puin 2010:53)-The first reference to the term Muslim is in the 690s. Prior to that time they were called: Saracen, Hagarene, Ishmaelite, Maghraye, and Muhajiroun (Chronicle of John of Niku C 1602, & Nevo & Koren, 2003:234)-The first reference to the term Islam is not until 691 AD (on the Dome of the Rock) (Volker Popp-Ohlig, & Puin 2010:71)-The first reference to Mecca is not until 741 AD, yet this is the city where Abraham supposedly lived in 1800 BC (see Surah and where Muhammad grew up (Crone 1987:134-136; Hoyland 1997:426; Holland 2012:303)-

The first biography of Muhammad within Islamic sources is not until 833 AD (Ibn Hisham & Al Waqidi)These findings are indeed damaging, and suggest that the classical account of how Islam began is not only false, but can not be supported when observing that which history affords us.The scholars who are doing this investigation involve some of the best minds in the Western world today, including:-Dr John Wansborough (SOAS: Quranic studies, Sect. Milieu)-Dr Gerald Hawting (SOAS: 1st c. of Islam)-Dr Patricia Cröne (Princeton: Meccan trade, 15 languages)-Dr Andrew Rippin (Calgary: Muslims, Their beliefs/Practices)-Dr Robert Hoyland (Oxford: Seeing Islam as Others, 18 lang.)-Dr Yehuda Nevo (Jerusalem: Crossroads to Islam, inscriptions)-Dr Gunther Lűling, Dr Gerd-Rdiger Puin, Dr Hans-Caspar Graf von Bothmer, Dr Karl-Heinz Ohlig (Germany, earkt Qur'anic MSS)

YouTube 3) ISLAMIC GEOGRAPHY & THE PROBLEM WITH MECCA https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4cOne46oN6g

YouTube 4) MECCA IS NOT A VERY OLD CITY https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EM6ukHF8eu8


Banyak lagi video jay smith dan al fadi...takut nantti kamu pergi semayam di hindu temple sebelum gantung diri pula bila tengok banyak sangat!

P/S jangan pula kata saya menghina..kerana ini yang kamu mahukan!

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Post time 3-11-2018 10:53 PM | Show all posts
Eh..wow siapa pula yang cuba copycat nivk saya ni?
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Post time 4-11-2018 12:25 AM | Show all posts
Edited by sam1528 at 4-11-2018 12:43 AM
FOTHERMUCKER2 replied at 3-11-2018 10:20 AM
Oleh kerana kamu raja google forum CARI..cuba google nama nama ni
1) Dr John Wansborough (SOAS: Qu ...

He he he he .... apa lah ko ni FOTHER-MUCKER ... baru kena tampar sikit , dah hilang akai

Pasal apa ko tak gunakan 'FOTHER-MUCKER'? Takut kena potong credit lagi kot

Bermakna ko ni pengecut lah

Oooo , ko bagi the list of scholars .... cuba bagi apa depa cakap pasal Islam & Nabi Muhammad(saw) & bagi buku rujukkan mereka & apa depa cakap

Tak kan tak mampu kot .... hang hanya copy paste aje dari youtube description Jay Smith , who incidentally is a failed christian missionary kat UK & dah cabut balik ke US. BTW dia masih tak dapat PhD dia after more than 15 years ... a failed scholar = not a scholar lah tambi

Tu pasal Zwemer Centre amat malu dgn Jay Smith .... kesiannya , Christian scholars kat Zwemer kantoikan Jay Smith

Jay Smith is your hero eh? What an irony

Memalukan diri sendiri?
MASIH NAK NAME CALLING? Saya tiada hall! Nanti kamu juga yang sentap seperti pondan!

(Dah banyak kali ditanya soalan tersebut ... jawapan masih yilek Kot2 dia hanya gunakan 'google earth' aje .... this is very poor lah tambi)
UNTUK PENGETAHUAN KAMU DAN G TIDAK MENGGUNAKAN GOOGLE EARTH, DIA BUKAN TARAF KAKI GOOGLE DAN DUDUK DEPAN SCREEN COMPUTER SEPERTI KAMU SAMBL SAMBIL PERASAN TERLALU CERDIK PANDAI...TAPI YILEKKKK..NOTHING.. KAMU HANYALAH SEORANG SAMDOL SAHAJA!

ARGUMENT YANG SANGAT LEMAH DAN CHILDISH DARI KAKI GOOGLE!
(Ko hanya dapat kosong lah tambi ...)

Kalau setakat king sorang tu tak setuju ada apa hal? King tu lebih untuk menjaga sensitivitys orang islam sahaja. Tengok sahaja response Dan G pada king!

Jadik Teknik apa yg si mamat Dan Gibson (yg hanya ada sekadar entry level qualification in theology) guna?

Banyak kali dah tanya soalan ni tapi ko tak mampu jawab .... oops tak ada jawapan ke? tak ada jawapan lah tu


Senang aje pekena kan ko


Mamat Dan Gibson (yg hanya ada sekadar entry level qualification in theology) kot2 guna google earth aje

Ha ha ha ha ... Prof King sorang aje tak setuju ... hmmm , ko tau tak sapa kat Zwemer Centre tu? Oh yeah , ko kan katak bawah tempurung ... apa yg ko tau

No answers yeah ... kesian ... nak kata apa .... geng muslim bagi fakta , liberal macam ko hanya auta aje

Dah terang terang dalam quraan dan hadis pun banyak memberitahu tentang becca ataupun Petra Nabatean di Jordan sana. ADA BERAPA BANYAK DALAM QURAAN SEBUT PASAL MECCA ARAB SAUDI?

Sewaktu pembanggunan semejak puluhan tahun dahulu dan masih dalam pembanggunan sekarang ni di Mecca arab Saudi ada ke dia orang jumpa artifact silam? Non hado!

LOL , bila dah kantoi , mula lah ko buat assertion kureng cerdik Bakka dlm Quran adalah kat Petra

Pulak dah , sebelum ni mengaku pulak bakka = mekkah .... ko tak mabuk todi ye

You are just going in circles chasing your own backside lah tambi

Laaa ... pasal apa ko kitar semula youtube video ttg Mekkah & Petra tambi?

Kan dah bagi jawapan dari
- Prof King
- Mark Anderson

Ko jawab aje lah .... kitar semula isu yg dah kantoi is not addressing the issue

Kan Mark Anderson dah bagi ttg archeological records :
Fourth, revisionists make two claims about the archeological record. The first relates to the fact that we have no evidence that Mecca was inhabited in the seventh century. Due to the Saudi governments absolute dread of shirkroughly translated, idolatryit adamantly forbids all archeological study of Meccas historic sites. Indeed, the Saudis seem determined to obliterate the citys historic record in their rush to dwarf the Kaaba with skyscrapers. An estimated 95% of Meccas historic buildings have been demolished to allow for this building spree. Any remaining historic sites are treated with a strange combination of fear, contempt and scholarly avoidance, lest they be idolized.11 This leaves us with no archeological evidence whatsoever, either for or against Meccas being Islams birthplace

Gebg liberal macam ko yg appeal to these 'revisionist' selalunya tak pakai otak

Dok togok aje kencing org ... kan dah kena dgn scholar kristian ... 'peeek' , setepek tang dahi

No historical record of Prophet Muhammad(saw) till 691AD? Lu gila ka tambi?

Too bad for you :
Doctrina Iacobi Nuper Baptizati, 13C20 AH / 634C640 CE.Written by a Christian apologist, this anti-Jewish tract illuminates the story of the forced conversion of a Palestinian Jewish merchant named Jacob to Christianity. After reading the scriptures, instead of resenting his forced baptism, he recognises the truth of his newly found faith and is eager to share his experience with other Jews. Though it is quite clear this is a fictitious account designed for apologetic purposes, the historical details of contemporary events accurately recounted by the anonymous author reveals some quite startling information - the appearance of a new Prophet among the Saracens.
  
When the candidatus was killed by the Saracens, I was at Caesarea and I set off by boat to Sykamina. People were saying "the candidatus has been killed," and we Jews were overjoyed. And they were saying that the prophet had appeared, coming with the Saracens, and that he was proclaiming the advent of the anointed one, the Christ who was to come. I, having arrived at Sykamina, stopped by a certain old man well-versed in scriptures, and I said to him: "What can you tell me about the prophet who has appeared with the Saracens?" He replied, groaning deeply: "He is false, for the prophets do not come armed with a sword. Truly they are works of anarchy being committed today and I fear that the first Christ to come, whom the Christians worship, was the one sent by God and we instead are preparing to receive the Antichrist. Indeed, Isaiah said that the Jews would retain a perverted and hardened heart until all the earth should be devastated. But you go, master Abraham, and find out about the prophet who has appeared." So I, Abraham, inquired and heard from those who had met him that there was no truth to be found in the so-called prophet, only the shedding of men's blood. He says also that he has the keys of paradise, which is incredible.[18]
This source vies with the following two texts detailed below, viz., A Record Of The Arab Conquest Of Syria, 637 CE and Thomas The Presbyter, c. 640 CE, as being amongst the very earliest non-Islamic sources to mention Prophet Muḥammad. Furthermore, this is the earliest text to ascribe to his teachings an explicit religious motivation.[19]

Nak kena lagi? This follows the requirement laid by Wansbrough , Koren & Nevo :
Following the footsteps of Wansbrough, a different approach was taken by Judith Koren and Yehuda Nevo to study Islamic history. They contend that any Muslim source must be checked against a non-Muslim source (preferably material, e.g., archaeology, epigraphy, numismatics), and if the two sources conflict, the non-Muslim source is to be preferred.[7]  Concerning Muhammad, they claim:

Macamana skg? Ada rekod oleh non muslim pada CE634 ttg Nabi Muhammad(saw)

Ha ha ha ha ... he he he he ... this is only 2 years after baginda wafat lah tambi

Oops ... tambi FOTHER-MUCKER yg kureng cerdik kena lagi .... kan dah malu

LOL ... sumber ko hanyalah sorang missionary bernama Jay Smith. Ko tau tak mamat tu 15 thn pon tak mampu habiskan PhD dia. Oops , timeframe PhD dia pon dah lapsed.

Ertikata lain ... sumber referensi ko adalah dari a failed scholar , Jay Smith , failed scholar = non scholar


Kah kah kah .... geng muslim refer to real scholars , geng liberal macam FOTHER-MUCKER refer to a failed scholar macam Jay Smith .... oops failed scholar = not a scholar

Kesian nya .... nak kata apa , ko kan kurang cerdik , senang kena kencing

@Redskin
@sofea_uk
@mashimaru83

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Post time 4-11-2018 12:27 AM | Show all posts
FOTHER-MUCKER replied at 3-11-2018 10:53 PM
Eh..wow siapa pula yang cuba copycat nivk saya ni?

Aiiik ... sendiri bikin sendiri tanya ka?

Awat? Hang takut kena potong credil lagi ka

Ataupon ko dah malu gunakan nick sendiri


Maklum lah kena tampar kiri kanan


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 Author| Post time 4-11-2018 12:56 AM | Show all posts
Edited by FOTHERMUCKER2 at 4-11-2018 12:58 AM
sam1528 replied at 4-11-2018 12:25 AM
He he he he .... apa lah ko ni FOTHER-MUCKER ... baru kena tampar sikit , dah hilang akai

Pasal ...

Tarak testikal punya Sam ..minta bantuan kaum kau, tapi kaum kau tu sama sahaja seperti kau 2x5!

Problem dengan kau ni kau tak faham English!

Tahap darjah satu punya English pun kau tak boleh faham.

Sebagai contoh seperti yang kat bawah ni...

Tak pasti nak panggil kamu ni siapa sebenarnya?  The first house of worship making reference to the Kabah, Kabah itu dengan sendirinya adalah kiblat bagi orang islam.
Ataupun kiblat kamu bukan ke arah kabah?
Bagi tau saya kiblat kamu ke arah mana? Jerusalem? Batu cave?



The first house of worship
Making reference to the Ka'bah, Allah Almighty, tells us in the Quran that it was (what means):The first house (of worship) established for mankind was that at Bakkah (Makkah) C blessed and a guidance for the worlds.[Quran 3: 96]
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Post time 4-11-2018 01:12 AM | Show all posts
Edited by sam1528 at 4-11-2018 01:15 AM
FOTHERMUCKER2 replied at 4-11-2018 12:56 AM
Problem dengan kau ni kau tak faham English!

Tahap darjah satu punya English pun kau tak boleh  ...

Ha ha ha ha .... FOTHER-MOCKER dah kantoi dimalukan dgn terhina sekali

Tetiba lari kepada isu yg sekali lagi kantoi iaitu Mekkah & kaabah pada Quran3:96

Ni merepek ko :
Problem dengan kau ni kau tak faham English!

Tahap darjah satu punya English pun kau tak boleh faham.

Sebagai contoh seperti yang kat bawah ni...

Tak pasti nak panggil kamu ni siapa sebenarnya?  The first house of worship making reference to the Kabah, Kabah itu dengan sendirinya adalah kiblat bagi orang islam.
Ataupun kiblat kamu bukan ke arah kabah?
Bagi tau saya kiblat kamu ke arah mana? Jerusalem? Batu cave?



The first house of worship
Making reference to the Ka'bah, Allah Almighty, tells us in the Quran that it was (what means):The first house (of worship) established for mankind was that at Bakkah (Makkah) C blessed and a guidance for the worlds.[Quran 3: 96]

LOL , aku tau lah ko ni dah hilang akai

Ko tak tau apa yg ko dok merepek

Kehulu kehilir kaabah lepas tu kiri kanan 'first house of worship' lepas tu berpusing pasal Qibla

Cuba ko baca Quran3:96 , aku underline bagi ko

Cuba ko jelas kat aku apa dia apa maksud statement tersebut

Aku rasa2 lah ko ni kurang fasih english lah tambi

Buat malu aje ko mati2 klaim duduk kat UK

Aiiik! Cakap pulak ttg tarak testicles?

Tak kan benda lawak aku nak simpan sorang kot

Kena lah share dgn org lain .... depa pon boleh tumpang ketawa

Kah kah kah .... sikit kena tampar sudah hilang akai ka tambi


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 Author| Post time 4-11-2018 02:13 AM | Show all posts
Edited by FOTHERMUCKER2 at 4-11-2018 04:21 AM

Kekeke...jay smith tu hanya memberi Ulsan sahaja lah SAMDOL dari kajian nama nama seperti di bawah ni termasuk juga dari Dan G. Itu pun kau tak mampu nak faham ka? Patutlah SUSAH BERFORUM DENGAN SAMDOL LOW IQ Tahap budak tadika kampung pisang ni segala galanya FAILED..

By the way quraan dan hadis tak tipu kan? KERANA DIA ORANG BUAT KAJIAN BERPANDUKAN QURAAN DAN HADIS dan juga sejarah islam yang sedia ada,
1) Dr John Wansborough (SOAS: Quranic studies, Sect. Milieu)
2) Dr Gerald Hawting (SOAS: 1st c. of Islam)-
3) Dr Patricia Cröne (Princeton: Meccan trade, 15 languages)
4) Dr Andrew Rippin (Calgary: Muslims, Their beliefs/Practices)
5) Dr Robert Hoyland (Oxford: Seeing Islam as Others, 18 lang.)-
6) Dr Yehuda Nevo (Jerusalem: Crossroads to Islam, inscriptions)
7) Dr Gunther Lűling,
8) Dr Gerd-Rdiger Puin,
9) Dr Hans-Caspar Graf von Bothmer,
10) Dr Karl-Heinz Ohlig (Germany, earkt Qur'anic MSS)


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 Author| Post time 4-11-2018 02:27 AM | Show all posts
Edited by FOTHERMUCKER2 at 4-11-2018 05:04 AM
sam1528 replied at 4-11-2018 01:12 AM
Ha ha ha ha .... FOTHER-MOCKER dah kantoi dimalukan dgn terhina sekali

Tetiba lari kepada isu  ...

ture
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 Author| Post time 4-11-2018 04:08 AM | Show all posts
Edited by FOTHERMUCKER2 at 4-11-2018 04:47 AM
sam1528 replied at 4-11-2018 12:25 AM
He he he he .... apa lah ko ni FOTHER-MUCKER ... baru kena tampar sikit , dah hilang akai

Pasal ...

mungkin 1000 tahun dahulu arab tak pernah fikir pun bahawa selepas 1000 tahun manusia boleh menggunakan satelite untuk melihat bumi dari LANGIT.  dan mengali semula peninggalan sejarah sepertiman yang mereka sedang lakukan sekarang di becca ataupun petra.

by the way siapa jay smith? dia tiadalah samdol seperti kamu! bahasa english pun tak faham sekurangnya jay smith ada M.A islamic ...kau? hanyalah badut forum ci jewww. kalau lebai samdol nak tau dimana jay smith ambil master islamic dia..samdol boleh CLICK disini >> https://www.fuller.edu/academics/areas-of-interest/islamic-studies/

Smith was born in India to Brethren in Christ missionaries and attended Woodstock School in India. His grandparents were also missionaries.[1][2] He earned a B.A. from Messiah College and then a masters of Divinity from Eastern Baptist Theological Seminary in apologetics.[1][3][4] He has also earned an M.A. in Islamics from the Fuller Theological Seminary, and a PhD in apologetics and Polemics from the Melbourne School of Theology.
In 1981, while studying for his masters, Smith attended a seminar on Islam and noting that there were only 1,500 Christians ministering to Muslims worldwide, he decided to become a missionary to the Muslim world and pursued a second master's degree in Islamic studies from Fuller Theological Seminary.[1]

In 1987, Smith moved to Senegal as a missionary and in 1992, he moved to London[1] where he continued his education at the School of Oriental and African Studies[5][6] and the London School of Theology In 2001, he halted his education to concentrate on apologetics following a series of Islamic terrorist attacks, including the attack of September 11, 2001.[1]
In 2010, Smith resumed work on his Ph.D at the Melbourne School of Theology which he completed in March of 2017[1] He helped run the Hyde Park Christian Fellowship, which emphasises the use of Polemics with Muslims alongside Apologetics,[1][2] and has made appearances at Speakers Corner in Hyde Park, London[1][7][8][9] for over 24 years. Smith also engages in formal public debates with prominent Muslim apologists and scholars including Omar Bakri Muhammad, Azzam Tamimi[3], Shabir Ally[10][11], Anjem Choudary[4], Abdur Raheem Green[6] and Edip Yksel[5]and South African Muslim apologist Yusuf Ismail on peace and violence in the Qur'an and the Bible

Smith believes that although both Islam and Christianity include radicals, moderates, and liberals, it is radical Muslims that commit violence as they take the Quranseriously, while radical Christians who also take the Bible seriously serve others in love. He claims that radical Muslims model their lives on Muhammad, while radical Christians model their lives on Jesus Christ.[11] Smith believes the growth in radical Islam in Britain is due to disaffected Muslims, often minimally religious, returning to their Islamic roots.

He says that after reading the Islamic scriptures, (the Qur'an in conjunction with the hadith, tafsir, and sira), they come to the conclusion that the Salafi/Athari understanding is the true form of Islam.[2] Smith also believes that although Western actions in the Islamic world can instigate Muslim discontent, it is the Islamic scriptures that encourage the violence. He also rues the fact that moderate Muslims are not able to challenge the radicals using scripture because he believes the radicals have the scriptural authority.[2] Smith believes that ultimately Muslims and others will realize that the Muslim scriptures, coupled with the example of their prophet Muhammad are irrelevant to modern times.[2]
Smith's polemical approach has been praised by the likes of Salafi Omar Bakri Muhammad[10] who states:




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 Author| Post time 4-11-2018 07:28 AM | Show all posts
Edited by FOTHERMUCKER2 at 4-11-2018 08:16 AM
FOTHERMUCKER2 replied at 4-11-2018 04:08 AM
mungkin 1000 tahun dahulu arab tak pernah fikir pun bahawa selepas 1000 tahun manusia boleh menggu ...

Early Islamic Inscriptions from Danqur al-Khaznah at Becca/Petra Nabataean Jordan.  KALAU LEBAI SAMDOL NAK TENGOK DAN MEMBACA SEBAHAGIAN HISTORY ISLAMIC DI PETRA DENGAN JELAS PLEASE CLICK LINK DIBAWAH NI... itu pun kalau lebai samdol boleh faham lah!
http://www.academia.edu/1391820/Early_Islamic_Inscriptions_from_Danqur_al-Khaznah_at_Petra


Pre-Islamic Arabic Inscriptions
The pre-Islamic Arabic is often referred to as the "Old Arabic" by scholars. The most obvious characteristic of the Old Arabic is the use of the definite article ʾl-, the precursor of classical Arabic ʾal-. Old Arabic seems to have remained a purely spoken language until the late fifth / early sixth centuries CE which means that no specific script was associated with it before that period. Thus, on the rare occasions when it was written, the script associated with the local language of prestige was used: South Arabian in the southern half of the Peninsula; Nabataean at Ḥijr, ʿEn ʿAvdat in the Negev, and at al-Namarah; a form of eastern Aramaic at Mleiha on the Oman Peninsula; and early Arabic, mainly in Syria.

The Arabic script originated from the Nabataean script. T. Nöldeke was the first to establish the link between the Nabataean and Arabic scripts in 1865, which later confirmed against J. Starcky's Syriac thesis by Grohmann. The affiliation between Nabataean and Arabic scripts has now been fully documented by J. Healey. Following are the example of some of the inscriptions written in Old Arabic.

Although the inscription is in the "old" Arabic, it was written in the musnad script. This is the earliest known Arabic inscription written in the musnad script.

The inscription contains six lines; first four of which are in Aramaic and the last two are in Arabic, written in Nabataean alphabet. The Arabic portion is composed of verses of poetry. The inscription shows us that not only was Arabic poetry being composed around the turn of first/second century, but also that it was much like the poetry that was familiar to us from four centuries later. The Arabic part of the inscription consists of three hemistichs in al-tawil, the most commonly used of the classical meters.

Healey and Smith have hailed it as the earliest dated Arabic document. The salient point of this inscription is that it has diacritical points on the letters د، ش and ر.

This inscription is unique is several respects. It is the earliest inscription so far discovered in the classical Arabic language. Also it is the one of the two Arabic inscriptions written in Nabataean alphabet. This inscription is the only contemporary evidence we have in Arabic about the life of King Imru'l Qais. This inscription, therefore, is of great interest both to the historians as well as philologians.















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Post time 4-11-2018 09:06 AM | Show all posts
FOTHERMUCKER2 replied at 4-11-2018 02:13 AM
Kekeke...jay smith tu hanya memberi Ulsan sahaja lah SAMDOL dari kajian nama nama seperti di bawah n ...

Baaahwahwahwa .... FOTHER-MUCKER hanya mampu bagi list yg kononnya Jay Smith (si non scholar) to bagi

Lepas tu dok berkhayal yg kononnya macam ni:
Kekeke...jay smith tu hanya memberi Ulsan sahaja lah SAMDOL dari kajian nama nama seperti di bawah ni termasuk juga dari Dan G. Itu pun kau tak mampu nak faham ka? Patutlah SUSAH BERFORUM DENGAN SAMDOL LOW IQ Tahap budak tadika kampung pisang ni segala galanya FAILED..

By the way quraan dan hadis tak tipu kan? KERANA DIA ORANG BUAT KAJIAN BERPANDUKAN QURAAN DAN HADIS dan juga sejarah islam yang sedia ada,
1) Dr John Wansborough (SOAS: Quranic studies, Sect. Milieu)
2) Dr Gerald Hawting (SOAS: 1st c. of Islam)-
3) Dr Patricia Cröne (Princeton: Meccan trade, 15 languages)
4) Dr Andrew Rippin (Calgary: Muslims, Their beliefs/Practices)
5) Dr Robert Hoyland (Oxford: Seeing Islam as Others, 18 lang.)-
6) Dr Yehuda Nevo (Jerusalem: Crossroads to Islam, inscriptions)
7) Dr Gunther Lűling,
8) Dr Gerd-Rdiger Puin,
9) Dr Hans-Caspar Graf von Bothmer,
10) Dr Karl-Heinz Ohlig (Germany, earkt Qur'anic MSS)
Ini kes hayal pasal mabuk todi aje


Ha ha ha ha ... lepas tu dok copy paste (hanya dari descripsi youtube tapi bukan buku tau)
on Muhammad's life and saying do not come from anyone who was living at that time (i.e. eyewitness account) but was only written down between 200 C 240 years after the fact,
Tu pasal aku kata , ko ni kureng fasih english , kan aku dah bagi bukti/ rujukkan , post#10

***************


No historical record of Prophet Muhammad(saw) till 691AD? Lu gila ka tambi?

Too bad for you :
Doctrina Iacobi Nuper Baptizati, 13C20 AH / 634C640 CE.Written by a Christian apologist, this anti-Jewish tract illuminates the story of the forced conversion of a Palestinian Jewish merchant named Jacob to Christianity. After reading the scriptures, instead of resenting his forced baptism, he recognises the truth of his newly found faith and is eager to share his experience with other Jews. Though it is quite clear this is a fictitious account designed for apologetic purposes, the historical details of contemporary events accurately recounted by the anonymous author reveals some quite startling information - the appearance of a new Prophet among the Saracens.
  
When the candidatus was killed by the Saracens, I was at Caesarea and I set off by boat to Sykamina. People were saying "the candidatus has been killed," and we Jews were overjoyed. And they were saying that the prophet had appeared, coming with the Saracens, and that he was proclaiming the advent of the anointed one, the Christ who was to come. I, having arrived at Sykamina, stopped by a certain old man well-versed in scriptures, and I said to him: "What can you tell me about the prophet who has appeared with the Saracens?" He replied, groaning deeply: "He is false, for the prophets do not come armed with a sword. Truly they are works of anarchy being committed today and I fear that the first Christ to come, whom the Christians worship, was the one sent by God and we instead are preparing to receive the Antichrist. Indeed, Isaiah said that the Jews would retain a perverted and hardened heart until all the earth should be devastated. But you go, master Abraham, and find out about the prophet who has appeared." So I, Abraham, inquired and heard from those who had met him that there was no truth to be found in the so-called prophet, only the shedding of men's blood. He says also that he has the keys of paradise, which is incredible.[18]
This source vies with the following two texts detailed below, viz., A Record Of The Arab Conquest Of Syria, 637 CE and Thomas The Presbyter, c. 640 CE, as being amongst the very earliest non-Islamic sources to mention Prophet Muḥammad. Furthermore, this is the earliest text to ascribe to his teachings an explicit religious motivation.[19]

Nak kena lagi? This follows the requirement laid by Wansbrough , Koren & Nevo :
Following the footsteps of Wansbrough, a different approach was taken by Judith Koren and Yehuda Nevo to study Islamic history. They contend that any Muslim source must be checked against a non-Muslim source (preferably material, e.g., archaeology, epigraphy, numismatics), and if the two sources conflict, the non-Muslim source is to be preferred.[7]  Concerning Muhammad, they claim:

Macamana skg? Ada rekod oleh non muslim pada CE634 ttg Nabi Muhammad(saw)

Ha ha ha ha ... he he he he ... this is only 2 years after baginda wafat lah tambi

Oops .... malunya tambi FOTHER-MUCKER

Togok lagi lah kencing the non scholar Jay Smith

Dia dah kencing ko ttg rujukkan dia daaa ....

Patut pon ko tak berani bagi referensi buku2 yg ditulis oleh org2 tersebut

Kah kah kah .... FOTHER-MUCKER kantoi lagi pasal kureng fasih english ... lu tarak paham ka apa lu baca ka .... lu ada baca ka?




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Post time 4-11-2018 09:10 AM | Show all posts



@Maideen.    @FOTHER-MUCKER   @katowjo

Tiga badut yg tak kureng fasih english pasal tak paham apa korang baca

Mati2 parcaya pada revisionist history

LOL ... dah togok kencing the non scholar Jay Smith sampai mabuk
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 Author| Post time 4-11-2018 09:23 AM | Show all posts
Edited by FOTHERMUCKER2 at 4-11-2018 10:26 AM
sam1528 replied at 4-11-2018 09:06 AM
Baaahwahwahwa .... FOTHER-MUCKER hanya mampu bagi list yg kononnya Jay Smith (si non scholar) to b ...

Punya nak koner, last last cerita pasal nabi Muhammad?  Woi lebai samdol disini saya nak buktikan bahawa islam itu bermula di becca/Petra sebagai kabah asal bukanya Mecca di arab Saudi! Dah kantoi maka lobai samdol tukar subject? Ataupun lobai samdol terlalu lemah iq untuk faham? Kekeke....
Nampak sangat kamu ni terlalu bodoh tak faham subject! Betul betul bodoh jenis tak tau malu. Jay smith pun ada bagi tau bahawa nabi Muhammad lahir pada tahun 570 dan Meninggal pada tahun 632 dan jay smith juga percaya nabi Muhammad mempunyai 12 isteri dan 4 orang anak perempuan, tetapi kisah nabi hanya ditulis selepas kemangkatanya 100-200 tahun kemudian? kamu faham ka lobai samdol apa yang al fadi dan jay discuss tu?.


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