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SAMDOL TELAH DIBOGELKAN DI THREAD ¡°Adakah ini sejarah asal islam" & SAMDOL JUGA DITIPU OLEH PTOLEMY POSTING #105

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Author: FOTHERMUCKER2       Show all posts   Read mode

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 Author| Post time 10-11-2018 11:47 AM | Show all posts
Edited by FOTHERMUCKER2 at 10-11-2018 11:50 AM
sam1528 replied at 10-11-2018 11:28 AM
Ha ha ha ha ... lobai mat slow v2 boleh tanya apa problem ko kalo arah Qibla ditukar dari Jerusale ...

Apa yanh lobai samdol @ lobai estate @ mashimaru  ni tiada point lansung. Betul betul menunjukan yang kamu tu terlalu bodoh dan lemah untuk berfikir.  Kemudian tanya apasal dalam quraan tak cakap arah kiblat di alihkan dari petra ke Mecca? Kenapa dari Jerusalem? Hahaha...betul betul bodoh punya soalan dari lobai samdol @ lobai mashimaru. Dah terang terang arab nak manipulasi tentang petra..  Sebab itu mereka copycat nama bakkah..bacca Jordan untuk digunakan di mecca arab Saudi.
Sebab itu tiada nama Mecca dalam peta arab Saudi sehingga 9CAD. Sebab Mecca tak pernah wujud pun sebelum tu.

Sebab itu saya kata otak lobai samdol @ lobai estate @ lobai mashimaru terlalu lemah untuk berfikir.

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Post time 10-11-2018 04:23 PM | Show all posts
Edited by sam1528 at 10-11-2018 04:40 PM
FOTHERMUCKER2 replied at 10-11-2018 11:47 AM
Apa yanh lobai samdol @ lobai estate @ mashimaru  ni tiada point lansung. Betul betul menunjukan y ...

Ha ha ha ha ... lobai mat slow v2 is soooo detached from reality

Apa yg ko bagi , langsung tak ada backup dgn bukti maupon rujukkan
Apa yanh lobai samdol @ lobai estate @ mashimaru  ni tiada point lansung. Betul betul menunjukan yang kamu tu terlalu bodoh dan lemah untuk berfikir.  Kemudian tanya apasal dalam quraan tak cakap arah kiblat di alihkan dari petra ke Mecca? Kenapa dari Jerusalem? Hahaha...betul betul bodoh punya soalan dari lobai samdol @ lobai mashimaru. Dah terang terang arab nak manipulasi tentang petra..  Sebab itu mereka copycat nama bakkah..bacca Jordan untuk digunakan di mecca arab Saudi.
Sebab itu tiada nama Mecca dalam peta arab Saudi sehingga 9CAD. Sebab Mecca tak pernah wujud pun sebelum tu.

Sebab itu saya kata otak lobai samdol @ lobai estate @ lobai mashimaru terlalu lemah untuk berfikir.

Isu skg ko dah kantoikan diri ko dgn terhina sekali ttg Qibla yg ko mati2 klaim kat Petra adalah terawal.

No such thing tambi ... tu pasal any scholar worth their salt will call this 'revisionist history'

'Bacca jordan' lah ... 'tiada mecca dlm peta arab saudi sehingga 9CE' lah ; bila mintak bukti / rujukkan , ko tak mampu bagi

Yg ko hanya mampu bagi sebagai alternatif utk bukti / rujukkan ko adalah teriakkan :

ko bodoh ... ko bodoh ... ko bodoh

This is sooo poor lah tambi

Ni rujukkan dari ko tau : post#133
[size=26.66666603088379px]إِنَّ أَوَّلَ بَيْتٍ وُضِعَ لِلنَّاسِ لَلَّذِي بِبَكَّةَ مُبَارَكًا وَهُدًى لِلْعَالَمِينَ
Asad:Behold, the first Temple ever set up for mankind was indeed the one at Bakkah:75 rich in blessing, and a [source of] guidance unto all the worlds,Note - 75All authorities agree that this name is syronymous with Mecca (which, correctly transliterated, is spelt Makkah). Various etymologies have been suggested for this very ancient designation; but the most plausible explanation is given by Zamakhshari (and supported by Razi): in some old Arabic dialects the labial consonants b and m, being phonetically close to one another, are occasionally interchangeable. The mention, in this context, of the Temple in Mecca - that is, the Ka'bah - arises from the fact that it is the direction of prayer (qiblah) stipulated in the Qur'an. Since the prototype of the Ka'bah was built by Abraham and Ishmael (see 2:125 ff.) - and is, therefore, much older than the Temple of Solomon in Jerusalem - its establishment as the qiblah of the followers of the Quran does not only not imply any break with the Abrahamic tradition (on which, ultimately, the whole Bible rests), but, on the contrary, re-establishes the direct contact with that Patriarch: and herein lies the answer to the second of the two Jewish objections mentioned in note [73] above.
Apa cerita tambi? Lu sudah kantoikan diri sendiri ... nak cakap apa lagi?

Kalo tidak ko dok suruh tonton video si Dan Gibson (yg hanya ada sekadar entry level qualification in theology)

Ada harga ke video tersebut?

Kalo sampai skg dia tak mampu bagi technique yg digunakan utk kononnya konfom yg mesjid2 tersebut menghala ke Petra , bermakna he doesn't know what he is talking about.

Tu pasal tak ada , none , zilch , nada university yg took his so called research seriously melainkan si missionary & non scholar Jay Smith

Ko tak ada apa2 pon melainkan maki hamun

Maki hamun doesn't make you right , however it gives us a glimpse of your upbringing ... very poor

Kah kah kah ... lobai mat slow v2 tak berpijak kat bumi nyata
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 Author| Post time 10-11-2018 07:00 PM | Show all posts
Edited by FOTHERMUCKER2 at 10-11-2018 07:14 PM
sam1528 replied at 10-11-2018 04:23 PM
Ha ha ha ha ... lobai mat slow v2 is soooo detached from reality

Apa yg ko bagi , langsung tak  ...

Lol apa yang kantoi nya?
Sepatutnya lobai estate @ lobai samdol @ lobai mashimaru yang perlu merasa malu...
Kau tu tak faham kerana terlalu bodoh hina otak saiz burung! Betulah apa yang saya bagi tau ni..

Apa yanh lobai samdol @ lobai estate @ mashimaru  ni tiada point lansung. Betul betul menunjukan yang kamu tu terlalu bodoh dan lemah untuk berfikir.  Kemudian tanya apasal dalam quraan tak cakap arah kiblat di alihkan dari petra ke Mecca? Kenapa dari Jerusalem? Hahaha...betul betul bodoh punya soalan dari lobai samdol @ lobai mashimaru. Dah terang terang arab nak manipulasi tentang petra..  Sebab itu mereka copycat nama bakkah..bacca Jordan untuk digunakan di mecca arab Saudi.
Sebab itu tiada nama Mecca dalam peta arab Saudi sehingga 9CAD. Sebab Mecca tak pernah wujud pun sebelum tu.

Sebab itu saya kata otak lobai samdol @ lobai estate @ lobai mashimaru terlalu lemah untuk berfikir.



Sebab itulah kau terlalu bodoh nak faham! Jadi Perlu ka saya nak layan orang terlalu bodoh seperti kamu ni? GANG LOBAI KAU TAK ADA OTAK PUN UNTUK BERFIKIR KENAPA BUKAN PETRA SECARA OFFICIALLY KIBLAT PERTAMA! lollll bodoh gila lobai estate @ lobai samdol ni. Sebab itu saya kata tahap pemikiran kamu terlalu lemah IQ terlalu rendah.
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Post time 10-11-2018 10:59 PM | Show all posts
Edited by mbhcsf at 10-11-2018 11:00 PM

tak terfikirkah awak  yg hanya kerana research report  on this, awak  nak menafikan tradisi keilmuan Islam yg dah  berjaya mencipta tamadun?

awak rasa org islam yg gemilang dalam tamadun zaman khalifah tu , bahas benda ni , ke? i mean , depa tu lebih deakt jarak masa dari laporan ini dibuat tapi ade ke manuscript?
tindakan awak ni tak lebih dari regression...i mean - kenapa tak pergi selidiki sumber islam ?

ini yg pelik,  bukan dia menilai pun , tapi ambik bebluat laporan itu.



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Post time 10-11-2018 11:08 PM | Show all posts
Apa yanh lobai samdol @ lobai estate @ mashimaru  ni tiada point lansung.


ada point Mashimaru bertanya tu , ada rasional or he has a point when he asked you that question.

Betul betul menunjukan yang kamu tu terlalu bodoh dan lemah untuk berfikir.  

Kemudian tanya apasal dalam quraan tak cakap arah kiblat di alihkan dari petra ke Mecca?


>>>ada point yg bagus MAshimaru tanya sebab Al Quran tu sejak zaman  people of the Cave, Nabi Musa AS pun Al Quran dah jelaskan so, kalau benda major ni tentulah ade , disebabkan
pada malam Israa dan Mikraj - solat umat islam hingga akhir zaman ditetapkan hanya 5 kali sehari  so...dan pada masa yg sama Rasulullah sebelum the nght journey solat dan imamkan para nabi dan rasul - 124 000 org nabi , 313 RASUL ...

so banyak taw rasul  dalam dunia ni , tapi yg waji diketahui 25 dan 5 adalah rasul yg ulul azmi.


Kenapa dari Jerusalem? Hahaha...betul betul bodoh punya soalan dari lobai samdol @ lobai mashimaru. Dah terang terang arab nak manipulasi tentang petra..  Sebab itu mereka copycat nama bakkah..bacca Jordan untuk digunakan di mecca arab Saudi.


aiyooo...itu speculation from a baseless fact.

cuba baca  Sejarah kaabah


http://www.islam.gov.my/images/e ... _bernama_kaabah.pdf
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Post time 11-11-2018 12:38 AM | Show all posts
Edited by sam1528 at 11-11-2018 12:53 AM
FOTHERMUCKER2 replied at 10-11-2018 07:00 PM
Lol apa yang kantoi nya?
Sepatutnya lobai estate @ lobai samdol @ lobai mashimaru yang perlu mer ...

Ha ha ha ha ... in other words , lobai mat slow v2 ... ko tak ada apa2 lah

Patut pon ko dok maki hamun pasal nak cover line yg habuk pon ko tarak
Lol apa yang kantoi nya?
Sepatutnya lobai estate @ lobai samdol @ lobai mashimaru yang perlu merasa malu...
Kau tu tak faham kerana terlalu bodoh hina otak saiz burung! Betulah apa yang saya bagi tau ni..

Apa yanh lobai samdol @ lobai estate @ mashimaru  ni tiada point lansung. Betul betul menunjukan yang kamu tu terlalu bodoh dan lemah untuk berfikir.  Kemudian tanya apasal dalam quraan tak cakap arah kiblat di alihkan dari petra ke Mecca? Kenapa dari Jerusalem? Hahaha...betul betul bodoh punya soalan dari lobai samdol @ lobai mashimaru. Dah terang terang arab nak manipulasi tentang petra..  Sebab itu mereka copycat nama bakkah..bacca Jordan untuk digunakan di mecca arab Saudi.
Sebab itu tiada nama Mecca dalam peta arab Saudi sehingga 9CAD. Sebab Mecca tak pernah wujud pun sebelum tu.

Sebab itu saya kata otak lobai samdol @ lobai estate @ lobai mashimaru terlalu lemah untuk berfikir.



Sebab itulah kau terlalu bodoh nak faham! Jadi Perlu ka saya nak layan orang terlalu bodoh seperti kamu ni? GANG LOBAI KAU TAK ADA OTAK PUN UNTUK BERFIKIR KENAPA BUKAN PETRA SECARA OFFICIALLY KIBLAT PERTAMA! lollll bodoh gila lobai estate @ lobai samdol ni. Sebab itu saya kata tahap pemikiran kamu terlalu lemah IQ terlalu rendah.

LOL , sendiri kantoikan argumen sendiri ttg kononnya Qibla pertama Islam di Petra adalah kantoi dimalukan dgn terhina sekali lah tambi

Ko sendiri buat argumen & kemudian ko bagi rujukkan yg kantoikan diri ko sendiri ... bagus lah tu

TQ aje lah kami geng muslim ucapkan ... ni lah dia argumen dari org yg bodoh sampai ke tulang

Lagi sekali aku tanya :
Apa technique yg digunakan utk kononnya konfom yg mesjid2 tersebut menghala ke Petra?

Kalo tak mampu jawab & tiada jawapan bermakna you don't know what you are talking about lah tambi

Tersebut membuatkan video Dan Gibson (yg hanya ada sekadar entry level qualification in theology) just useless & in turn makes you worse than useless because you did not critically investigate his absurd claims.

Hmm , pulak dah dgn klaim :
Sebab itu tiada nama Mecca dalam peta arab Saudi sehingga 9CAD. Sebab Mecca tak pernah wujud pun sebelum tu.

Lagi sekali ko hanya ada klaim tanpa bukti / rujukkan

Well , you can read and start crying :
**************

Claudius Ptolemy (Born: 90 AD ¨C Died: 168 AD)
Claudius Ptolemy was a Greco-Roman writer of Alexandria, known as a mathematician, astronomer, geographer; is another person, centuries before Islam who makes mention of Makkah. He uses the name ¡®Makoraba¡¯ for Makkah.
In the Book: ¡®The New Encyclopedia of Islam¡¯, written by Cyril Glass¨¦ says that Ptolmey, in the second century mentioned Makkah. Here is what he wrote,
¡°Mecca (Makkah al-Mukarramah, lit ¡®Mecca the blessed¡¯). For thousands of years Mecca has been a spiritual center. Ptolemy, the second century Greek geographer, mentioned Mecca, calling it ¡®Makoraba¡¯. Some have interpreted this to mean temple (from Maqribah in south Arabian) but it may also mean ¡®Mecca of the Arabs¡¯.¡± [5]

Ilya Pavlovich Petrushevsky (1898¨C1977) was an Professor of History of the Near East at the University of Leningrad for twenty years, he also makes mention that Ptolemy in the second Century mentioned Makkah:
¡°On the caravan route from Syria to the Yemen, in the Hijaz neighbourhood, lay Mecca. Ptolemy, the Greek geographer, mentions it as early as the second century calling it Makoraba, which is derived from the south Arab word Maqrab meaning ¡®sanctuary¡¯. [6]

In the book ¡®A Comparative Study of Thirty City-state Cultures: An Investigation¡¯, by Mogens Herman Hansen; in Note 24 he makes it clear when Ptolemy mentioned the name ¡®Macoraba¡¯, that he meant Mecca:
¡°Ptolemy in Geographies refers to Mecca as Macoraba.¡± [9]

********************
Senang aje geng muslim bagi bukti / rujukkan yg kantoikan ko

Tak susah ... tapi ko akan susah nak cabar apa aku bagi

You actually have nothing lah tambi except hot air

BTW , maki hamun does not make you right ... it merely confirms that ko punya upbringing is very poor , probably from a dysfunctional family

Kah kah kah ... berpusing lah lobai mat slow v2 nak carik jawapan

Bukti / rujukkan tambi ... mana bukti / rujukkan ko?
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 Author| Post time 11-11-2018 01:09 AM | Show all posts
Edited by FOTHERMUCKER2 at 11-11-2018 05:18 AM
mbhcsf replied at 10-11-2018 11:08 PM
Apa yanh lobai samdol @ lobai estate @ mashimaru  ni tiada point lansung.

LOLLLL tak teruja lansung! Last last bagi bukti sepertimana apa yang semua orang dah tau dan di bagi tau yang mana ianya di tulis oleh bangsa arab.
Kalau penulis tu buat kajia secara fizikal dan menggunakan teknologi modern ok juga, Ini hanya ditulis sambil duduk atas kerisi berdasarkan dari buku buku dan menu script yang asalnya dari bangsa arab! Apa klass?

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 Author| Post time 11-11-2018 01:40 AM | Show all posts
Edited by FOTHERMUCKER2 at 11-11-2018 05:23 AM
sam1528 replied at 11-11-2018 12:38 AM
Ha ha ha ha ... in other words , lobai mat slow v2 ... ko tak ada apa2 lah

Patut pon ko dok mak ...
Senang aja kan untuk memperbodohkan lobai estate yang sememangnya bodoh, dah berapa puluh kali dah lobai estate kantoi tak faham English dan bahasa melayu. English yang mempunyai 5-6 patah perkataan pun lobai estate tak boleh faham...ini kan pula beribu ribu seperti ni


Lol lobai samdol @ lobai estate Patutlah teruja sangat rupanya baru jumpa nama marcoba!

BTW...lobai estate @ Lobai samdol @lobai mashimaru paham English ke? Sebab itu saya kata lobai estate hanya pandai copypaste sahaja kekononya nak tunjuk cerdik tetapi sebenarnya lobai estate adalah porumer terbodoh! Pembaca dan orang yanh buat kajian tentang Mecca dah lama tau tentang nama markoba tu, hanya lobai estate sahaja baru jumpa dalam google

Markoba kau! Cuba baca...itu pun kalau lobai estate paham English tapi ternyata lobai estate memang tak faham English kemudian bodoh seperti LEMBU! Samdol otak kau hanya mampu menyimpan 2 megabytes memori sahaja Sebab itu lobai estate teramat bodoh.

Where was Macoraba?
If we suppose that Macoraba is Mecca, there is a slight problem with its coordinates. Ptolemy puts it southeast of Yathrib; Mecca is southwest. Even before 1800 Konrad Mannert noticed that Macoraba was too far from the coast and offered a solution: Ptolemy¡¯s sources knew Mecca from the overland caravan route, and had never approached the town from the coast.

Of course, we don¡¯t know where Ptolemy¡¯s information ultimately came from; but even this solution may be too elaborate, because in general it seems that Ptolemy had more trouble calculating longitude than latitude, meaning that his towns are more accurately positioned north-south than east-west.

This had decisive consequences for his geography of Arabia. D¨±mat al-Jandal (Dumaitha) is indeed further north than Taym¨¡¡¯ (Thaima), which is further north than al-Ḥijr (Egra), Yathrib (Lathrippa), and Najr¨¡n (Nagara); but then Ptolemy puts Najr¨¡n way out east in the middle of the peninsula. The overall effect is to push towns away from the coast, crowding the heart of the peninsula and practically erasing the Empty Quarter of harsh desert in the southeast.

Under these constraints, Macoraba¡¯s location with respect to Mecca may be considered within a margin of error.
But we should be cautious. This margin of error is not itself evidence that Macoraba is Mecca; it merely opens the door for investigation. As this blog series will show, some of the ancient names that have been associated with Mecca are most likely in the region of the Sinai and the Gulf of Aqaba, or down by Oman and the Hadramawt. Macoraba has the virtue of at least being placed in the Hijaz, but imprecisely. We should heed Patricia Crone¡¯s advice: ¡°Naturally, [Ptolemy]¡¯s longitudes and latitudes are inexact; but if they are inexact, one cannot identify places on the basis of them alone.¡±

From Hugh Kennedy (ed.), Historical Atlas of Islam, s.v. ¡°Arabia According to Ptolemy¡±. Makoraba is in C3. Click to enlarge.


We are left with the problem that Macoraba is a different word from Mecca. It may seem odd to phrase it that way, but it needs saying and saying again: Macoraba is a different word from Mecca, and that is a problem if we want to identify them. It is not good enough to say that the first half of Macoraba sounds a bit like Mecca. We should either explain the difference or cut Macoraba loose. And there is a very long tradition of attempts to explain it.






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 Author| Post time 11-11-2018 02:20 AM | Show all posts
Edited by FOTHERMUCKER2 at 11-11-2018 03:40 AM

Lobai estate @ lobai samdol telah di bogel kan lagi kerana kebodohanya tarak paham english dan tak faham bahasa melayu sehingga menampakan kemaluanya yang terlampau. tetapi oleh kerana lobai samdol @ lobai estate tiada harga diri maka lobai samdol @ obai estate masih lagi cuba menunjukan kebodohanya tang terlampau di forum cari.


girl names that start with the letter o
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Post time 11-11-2018 07:39 AM | Show all posts
FOTHERMUCKER2 replied at 11-11-2018 01:09 AM
LOLLLL tak teruja lansung! Last last bagi bukti sepertimana apa yang semua orang dah tau dan di ba ...

awak, awak tahu tak dalam dunia research dan kesarjanaan tu ada method tertentu? dan dalam dunia kajian manuscript ada kajian analisis tertentu untuk menjawab persoalan kajian dalam pelbagai peringkat?

awak ingat research ni hanya teknik lab based ke?

dengan hanya berkata ' sumber arab' , ' apa kelas'?

awak ta bersifat objektif sebab tamadun barat bermula dari sumber sumber yg awak hina inilah.


makin lama , your argument does not hold water sebab - awak kutuk sumber dari arablah etc etc , kata dah tahulah tapi, ini bukan argument yg konkrit.
ini sentimen - based statements.
prejudice.


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Post time 11-11-2018 11:31 AM | Show all posts
Edited by sam1528 at 11-11-2018 11:39 AM
FOTHERMUCKER2 replied at 11-11-2018 01:40 AM
Senang aja kan untuk memperbodohkan lobai estate yang sememangnya bodoh, dah berap ...

LOL ... lobai mat slow v2 bulat2 copy paste dari anti Islam site without investigation

Lagi sekali ko togok bulat2 kencing depa :
Lol lobai samdol @ lobai estate Patutlah teruja sangat rupanya baru jumpa nama marcoba!

BTW...lobai estate @ Lobai samdol @lobai mashimaru paham English ke? Sebab itu saya kata lobai estate hanya pandai copypaste sahaja kekononya nak tunjuk cerdik tetapi sebenarnya lobai estate adalah porumer terbodoh! Pembaca dan orang yanh buat kajian tentang Mecca dah lama tau tentang nama markoba tu, hanya lobai estate sahaja baru jumpa dalam google

Markoba kau! Cuba baca...itu pun kalau lobai estate paham English tapi ternyata lobai estate memang tak faham English kemudian bodoh seperti LEMBU! Samdol otak kau hanya mampu menyimpan 2 megabytes memori sahaja Sebab itu lobai estate teramat bodoh.

Where was Macoraba?
If we suppose that Macoraba is Mecca, there is a slight problem with its coordinates. Ptolemy puts it southeast of Yathrib; Mecca is southwest. Even before 1800 Konrad Mannert noticed that Macoraba was too far from the coast and offered a solution: Ptolemy¡¯s sources knew Mecca from the overland caravan route, and had never approached the town from the coast.

Of course, we don¡¯t know where Ptolemy¡¯s information ultimately came from; but even this solution may be too elaborate, because in general it seems that Ptolemy had more trouble calculating longitude than latitude, meaning that his towns are more accurately positioned north-south than east-west.

This had decisive consequences for his geography of Arabia. D¨±mat al-Jandal (Dumaitha) is indeed further north than Taym¨¡¡¯ (Thaima), which is further north than al-Ḥijr (Egra), Yathrib (Lathrippa), and Najr¨¡n (Nagara); but then Ptolemy puts Najr¨¡n way out east in the middle of the peninsula. The overall effect is to push towns away from the coast, crowding the heart of the peninsula and practically erasing the Empty Quarter of harsh desert in the southeast.

Under these constraints, Macoraba¡¯s location with respect to Mecca may be considered within a margin of error.
But we should be cautious. This margin of error is not itself evidence that Macoraba is Mecca; it merely opens the door for investigation. As this blog series will show, some of the ancient names that have been associated with Mecca are most likely in the region of the Sinai and the Gulf of Aqaba, or down by Oman and the Hadramawt. Macoraba has the virtue of at least being placed in the Hijaz, but imprecisely. We should heed Patricia Crone¡¯s advice: ¡°Naturally, [Ptolemy]¡¯s longitudes and latitudes are inexact; but if they are inexact, one cannot identify places on the basis of them alone.¡±

From Hugh Kennedy (ed.), Historical Atlas of Islam, s.v. ¡°Arabia According to Ptolemy¡±. Makoraba is in C3. Click to enlarge.


We are left with the problem that Macoraba is a different word from Mecca. It may seem odd to phrase it that way, but it needs saying and saying again: Macoraba is a different word from Mecca, and that is a problem if we want to identify them. It is not good enough to say that the first half of Macoraba sounds a bit like Mecca. We should either explain the difference or cut Macoraba loose. And there is a very long tradition of attempts to explain it.


Ha ha ha ha ... ko quote Konrad Mannert? Ko tau tak Konrad Mannert mati dlm thn 1834. This is outdated scholarship lah tambi

Kalo ko notice aku bagi support dari Mogens Herman Hansen yg masih hidup sampai skg yg konfom Macoraba adalah mekkah with the latest information lah tambi.

Lagi sekali ko refer kat Patrica Crone : Kan dlm 1991 , dia dah tarik balik buku dia & mengaku yg dia tak tau apa yg dia cakap ... ini termasuk lah yg dia mati2 klaim macoraba bukan mekkah

He he he he ... lobai mat slow v2 bagi rujukkan yg dah kantoi ... you are behind time lah tambi

Sebenarnya rujukkan ko diambil kat sini : tapi ko nak bohong pasal ko hanya ambil part yg ko nak bagi aje. Kita tengok sebelum & selepas apa ko copy paste :
Sebelum paragraph copy paste ko :
Among the names is Macoraba ¨C Ptolemy spells it Makoraba in Greek, but Latin translations prefer Machoraba and Macoraba ¨C which Ptolemy puts in the west of the Arabian Peninsula.There is a consensus in academic scholarship that Mecca is Macoraba. The coordinates put it roughly in the right place, and the name seems roughly correct. Several etymologies have been proposed, but the preferred solution is that it comes from an Old South Arabian word like *mikr¨¡b,with the meaning ¡®temple¡¯. Macoraba was therefore a noteworthy centre of pre-Islamic religion as far back as the second century CE. When you encounter Macoraba in scholarly literature you are quite likely to find this etymology, and extremely likely to find the identification with Mecca.

Selepas paragraph copy paste ko :
We are left with the problem that Macoraba is a different word from Mecca. It may seem odd to phrase it that way, but it needs saying and saying again: Macoraba is a different word from Mecca, and that is a problem if we want to identify them. It is not good enough to say that the first half of Macoraba sounds a bit like Mecca. We should either explain the difference or cut Macoraba loose. And there is a very long tradition of attempts to explain it.

He he he he .... ha ha ha ha ... kesian lobai mat slow v2 , lagi sekali ko ditangkap cuba membohong

Pembohongan ko :
(1) Rujukkan ko dgn jelas catat :
There is a consensus in academic scholarship that Mecca is Macoraba. The coordinates put it roughly in the right place, and the name seems roughly correct.

(2) Ko tak paham apa ko baca - Konrad Mannert yg mati dlm thn 1834 tu tak paham yg spt diberi dari copy paste ko :
Ptolemy¡¯s sources knew Mecca from the overland caravan route, and had never approached the town from the coast.

ie. Ptolemy's calulation is from the caravan route lah tambi manakala Manning gunakan what is standard at that time
(3) Rujukkan yg ko copy paste dgn jelas catat :
there is a very long tradition of attempts to explain it.
Ini semua adalah dari blog post yg mati2 cuba nak kata macoraba bukan mekkah

Tapi on the available evidence and  consensus in academic scholarship : Mecca ia Macoraba

Kah kah kah ... lobai mat slow v2 kantoi dimalukan dgn terhina sekali menggunakan rujukkan ko sendiri ... eeeeew malunya ... tak tau mana lobai mat slow v2 nak letak muka ... sendiri punya rujukkan kantoikan diri ko
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Post time 11-11-2018 11:37 AM | Show all posts
Edited by sam1528 at 11-11-2018 11:41 AM
FOTHERMUCKER2 replied at 11-11-2018 02:20 AM
Lobai estate @ lobai samdol telah di bogel kan lagi kerana kebodohanya tarak paham english dan tak f ...

Ha ha ha ha .... lobai mat slow v2 kantoi dimalukan dgn terhina sekali

Ko merapu macam ni buat apa?
obai estate @ lobai samdol telah di bogel kan lagi kerana kebodohanya tarak paham english dan tak faham bahasa melayu sehingga menampakan kemaluanya yang terlampau. tetapi oleh kerana lobai samdol @ lobai estate tiada harga diri maka lobai samdol @ obai estate masih lagi cuba menunjukan kebodohanya tang terlampau di forum cari.


Rujuk post#31 dari aku

LOL ... ko kantoi dimalukan dgn terhina sekali dgn rujukkan ko sendiri lah tambi pasal ko hanya copy paste sebahagian aje & lepas tu nak bohong

Kalo kita baca paragraphs sebelum & selepas apa ko bagi , akan dapati yg ko cuba bohong :
Pembohongan ko :
(1) Rujukkan ko dgn jelas catat :
There is a consensus in academic scholarship that Mecca is Macoraba. The coordinates put it roughly in the right place, and the name seems roughly correct.

(2) Ko tak paham apa ko baca - Konrad Mannert yg mati dlm thn 1834 tu tak paham yg spt diberi dari copy paste ko :
Ptolemy¡¯s sources knew Mecca from the overland caravan route, and had never approached the town from the coast.

ie. Ptolemy's calulation is from the caravan route lah tambi manakala Manning gunakan what is standard at that time
(3) Rujukkan yg ko copy paste dgn jelas catat :
there is a very long tradition of attempts to explain it.

Terlampau senang nak kenakan ko pasal ko teramat amat kureng cerdik & kureng fasih english

Kah kah kah ... lobai mat slow v2 kantoi dimalukan dgn terhina sekali

Nampaknya aku betul lagi sekali & ko kantoi pasal cuba membohong .... ngak ngak ngak
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 Author| Post time 11-11-2018 11:41 AM | Show all posts
Edited by FOTHERMUCKER2 at 11-11-2018 11:51 AM
sam1528 replied at 11-11-2018 11:31 AM
LOL ... lobai mat slow v2 bulat2 copy paste dari anti Islam site without investigation

Lagi sek ...

Lol puas lobai estate nak memutarbelitkan fakta dalam map tu pun macoraba dah sah sah terlalu jauh dari Mecca. Kekononya nak tunjuk cerdik sangat lah semua orang salah, lobai samdol sahaja yanh cerdik kekononya , bodoh betul lobai estate ni.
English pun tak faham!

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Post time 11-11-2018 11:53 AM | Show all posts
FOTHERMUCKER2 replied at 11-11-2018 11:41 AM
Lol puas lobai estate nak memutarbelitkan fakta

English pun tak faham!

Ha ha ha ha ... lobai mat slow v2 dah mati kutu

Aku dah kata , ko bukan cerdik sgt .... terlampau senang aje kenakan ko

Ko tau pasal apa ... ko kaki kencing tapi amat2 kureng fasih english

Ini dari site copy paste ko tau :
******************
Sebenarnya rujukkan ko diambil kat sini : tapi ko nak bohong pasal ko hanya ambil part yg ko nak bagi aje. Kita tengok sebelum & selepas apa ko copy paste :
Sebelum paragraph copy paste ko :
Among the names is Macoraba ¨C Ptolemy spells it Makoraba in Greek, but Latin translations prefer Machoraba and Macoraba ¨C which Ptolemy puts in the west of the Arabian Peninsula.There is a consensus in academic scholarship that Mecca is Macoraba. The coordinates put it roughly in the right place, and the name seems roughly correct. Several etymologies have been proposed, but the preferred solution is that it comes from an Old South Arabian word like *mikr¨¡b,with the meaning ¡®temple¡¯. Macoraba was therefore a noteworthy centre of pre-Islamic religion as far back as the second century CE. When you encounter Macoraba in scholarly literature you are quite likely to find this etymology, and extremely likely to find the identification with Mecca.

Selepas paragraph copy paste ko :
We are left with the problem that Macoraba is a different word from Mecca. It may seem odd to phrase it that way, but it needs saying and saying again: Macoraba is a different word from Mecca, and that is a problem if we want to identify them. It is not good enough to say that the first half of Macoraba sounds a bit like Mecca. We should either explain the difference or cut Macoraba loose. And there is a very long tradition of attempts to explain it.

He he he he .... ha ha ha ha ... kesian lobai mat slow v2 , lagi sekali ko ditangkap cuba membohong

Pembohongan ko :
(1) Rujukkan ko dgn jelas catat :
There is a consensus in academic scholarship that Mecca is Macoraba. The coordinates put it roughly in the right place, and the name seems roughly correct.

(2) Ko tak paham apa ko baca - Konrad Mannert yg mati dlm thn 1834 tu tak paham yg spt diberi dari copy paste ko :
Ptolemy¡¯s sources knew Mecca from the overland caravan route, and had never approached the town from the coast.

ie. Ptolemy's calulation is from the caravan route lah tambi manakala Manning gunakan what is standard at that time
(3) Rujukkan yg ko copy paste dgn jelas catat :
there is a very long tradition of attempts to explain it.

Ini semua adalah dari blog post yg mati2 cuba nak kata macoraba bukan mekkah

******************

Kah kah kah ... lobai mat slow v2 kantoi dimalukan dgn terhina sekali ... tak susah pon
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 Author| Post time 11-11-2018 03:41 PM | Show all posts
Edited by FOTHERMUCKER2 at 11-11-2018 04:00 PM
sam1528 replied at 11-11-2018 11:53 AM
Ha ha ha ha ... lobai mat slow v2 dah mati kutu

Aku dah kata , ko bukan cerdik sgt .... terlamp ...
Bullshittttt punya lobai estate.....One thing that is absolutely not arguable, is that obsolete and discredited wishful false presumption, will never be able to stand in for a completely absent 4500 year pre-4th century historical and archaeological record of Mecca. As even Saudi Arabia's museums confirm by an absence of the same.

Like in the Islamic Museum in Mecca. Or the National Museum of Saudi Arabia's page on the pre-Islamic era, where we find discussion of older habitation in northern Arabia, the Yemen area, and even Riyadh - but still no Mecca.
Samdol dengan kebodohanaya tidak boleh di pisahkan. Lobai estate terlalu bodoh lah untuk berfikir secara waras.
Samdol samdol. Manasatu lobai samdol nak percaya modern teknologi yang menggunakan satellite ataupun dan macam macam kecanggihan ataupun teknologi yang digunakan 100-AD yang mana dia pun hanya tau separuh sahaja dari kesemua globe dengan ukuran saiz bumi yang salah dan juga latitude yang salah?

[size=21.647058486938477px]The maps look distorted when compared to modern maps, because Ptolemy's data were inaccurate. One reason is that Ptolemy estimated the size of the Earth as too small: while Eratosthenes found 700 stadia for a great circle degree on the globe, Ptolemy uses 500 stadia in the Geography. It is highly probable that these were the same stadion, since Ptolemy switched from the former scale to the latter between the Syntaxis and the Geography, and severely readjusted longitude degrees accordingly. See also Ancient Greek units of measurement and History of geodesy.
[size=21.647058486938477px]Because Ptolemy derived many of his key latitudes from crude longest day values, his latitudes are erroneous on average by roughly a degree (2 degrees for Byzantium, 4 degrees for Carthage), though capable ancient astronomers knew their latitudes to more like a minute. (Ptolemy's own latitude was in error by 14'.) He agreed (Geography 1.4) that longitude was best determined by simultaneous observation of lunar eclipses, yet he was so out of touch with the scientists of his day that he knew of no such data more recent than 500 years before (Arbela eclipse). When switching from 700 stadia per degree to 500, he (or Marinos) expanded longitude differences between cities accordingly (a point first realized by P. Gosselin in 1790), resulting in serious over-stretching of the Earth's east-west scale in degrees, though not distance. Achieving highly precise longitude remained a problem in geography until the application of Galileo's Jovian moon method in the 18th century. It must be added that his original topographic list cannot be reconstructed: the long tables with numbers were transmitted to posterity through copies containing many scribal errors, and people have always been adding or improving the topographic data: this is a testimony to the persistent popularity of this influential work in the history of cartography.


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 Author| Post time 11-11-2018 03:44 PM | Show all posts
Edited by FOTHERMUCKER2 at 11-11-2018 04:14 PM
sam1528 replied at 11-11-2018 11:53 AM
Ha ha ha ha ... lobai mat slow v2 dah mati kutu

Aku dah kata , ko bukan cerdik sgt .... terlamp ...

To consider the Gospel with an Islamic perspective please visit IslamAndTheTruth.com

Besides Ahmed Deedat's Baca is Mecca exercise in dissimulation, by censoring the location pin provided in Psalms 84 as revealed on the prior page, it is amazing how many Muslims parrot other Muslims that advance a handful of out of context quotes that were gleaned from a few 18th or 19th century author's misunderstanding of an earlier historian or geographer, as if doing so could somehow take the place of an entirely absent 4500 year pre-4th century historical and archaeological record of Mecca! Compare that absence of evidence, to the historical and archaeological records of the Holy Land, where there are over a million artifacts just on display! Let alone the miracle of fulfilled Bible prophecy.

(URL) Historical fact intermingled with "tradition"

Muhammad's followers present links to publications like Encyclopedia Britannica, with suggestions that it proves that Abraham and Ishmael built the Kaaba, or that Mecca existed prior to the 4th century AD. Part of the reason for their being deceived is that many publications misleadingly intermingle Islamic so-called "tradition", with matters of Muhammad-era and later historical record, rather than creating a separate category for the unhistorical Islamic "tradition" that was created and put to the pen in the 7th to 10th centuries without reference to any actual historical record that preceded the 6th century AD.  

Wikipedia has the excuse of being vulnerable to any vandal that creates a login, but would it be asking too much to expect more care to be exercised by publications that promote themselves as being authoritative sources of factual information, that even proclaim hollow unctuous platitudes such as "truth matters"? Yet because they lump fact and fictional "tradition" together, under the category of "History", it creates a false illusion of Islamic "tradition" regarding ancient history as being historical. This exceedingly unscholarly approach is misleading, even though most publications carefully couch any references that suggest a pre-4th century AD Mecca or Kaaba, with qualifiers like "According to Islamic tradition...." or "According to legend....". Yet because historical fact and Islamic "tradition" are intertwined under the heading of "history" in these publications, young students and others with limited capacity for critical thought or those that are simply predisposed to believe unhistorical Islamic fables, fail to notice that those "qualifiers" are in effect disclaimers that if anything suggest an absence of historicity. In the end such articles wind up as little more than exercises in mind control, whether intended or not.

(URL) Antiquated Sources

It is important to note that available evidence suggests the Arabic language did not exist until into the Christian era, yet some go as far as to suggest similarities between names of places like that of 2nd century Ptolemy's "Macoraba" with "Mecca" (perhaps because they both begin with an "m"?).

Yet in spite of the fact that nobody can deny that such vain wishes are not evidential, we find an endless procession of those that try to rename Mecca, as if it were synonymous or interchangeable with "Macoraba" and even "Baca". Once again, the antiquated 18th to early 20th century dictionaries and encyclopedias are parroted without end, even by modern day encyclopedias!

When it comes to events that took place during the 18th to early 20th centuries, or even a century or two before the period the author was contemporary to, the information they pass along may well be reliable and historical. Indeed that is how historical record is developed. But when it comes to an 18th to early 20th century author passing along fables from unhistorical sources, regarding things that were supposed to have taken place thousands of years before them, they were obviously as information deprived as some modern day parrots choose to be, who regurgitate the same.

(URL) Edward Gibbon presumed Diodorus wrote about the Kaaba

The most commonly cited author on this subject, perhaps because Ahmed Deedat parroted the notion, is 18th century author Edward Gibbon's citing of 2nd century Diodorus' writing about Agatharchides work. Muslims quote from Gibbon's "Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire" regarding "...a famous temple, whose superior sanctity was revered by all the Arabians...", in which Gibbon parroted Diodorus' ".....is highly revered by all the Arabs", that by the 1700s Gibbon understandably presumed through Islamic folklore was the Ka'aba in Mecca. However Gibbon's area of interest was the Roman Empire, and he offers his readers ample warning regarding his relative disinterest in the subject of Arabia, by prefacing the passage that quote is lifted from with: "I am ignorant, and I am careless, of the blind mythology of the Barbarians: of the local deities, of the stars, the air, and the earth, of their sex or titles, their attributes or subordination." After which he goes on to parrot unhistorical Islamic "tradition" regarding the kaaba and Mecca. It should be no surprise that by the time the 1700s rolled around, an Englishman that had expressed a less than enthusiastic interest in Arabia would falsely presume that the "famous temple" written about by Diodorus was the Ka'aba, while the evidence suggests otherwise. By Gibbon's 18th century the Kaaba had been the only show in Arabia for more than 1,000 years, because Muhammad and his followers had destroyed all of the other places of worship during their ravaging rampage of the Arabian Peninsula.

However even Mohammed's own tribe the Quraish continued to go on pilgrimage to other temples twice a year, long after they built their Ka'aba in Mecca in the 5th century, indicating that the Ka'aba in Mecca was a less significant site of pagan Arabian Star Family worship.

Quran 106:1 For the covenants by the Quraish, 2 Their covenants journeys by winter and summer,- 3 Let them adore the Lord of this House,

One of the Quraish pilgrimages was to a Ka'aba in Taif where the sun goddess al-Lat was worshiped, who was the wife of what the etymology of the name would suggest was the Arabian pagan's moon god al-Lah. Which also helps us recognize the origins of the Islamic ritual of Ramadan.

Another pilgrimage was to the north. Quoting Dr. Rafat Amari "Agatharchides told about another temple close to Ilat in the Aqaba gulf area. It is in a land belonging to a tribe called "Batmizomaneis." Agatharchides emphasizes that the temple, in his own words, "is highly revered by all the Arabs." (1)

Thus we can understand why the Arabian expression "Allah Akbar" of pagans that worshiped 360 idols in Mecca before Muhammad was born, is an exclamation that Allah is the greater or greatest, of all the Arabian Star Family deities.

Yet another possibility for a famous Arabian temple, could be the one near al-Ula (formerly Dedan) where she-camels were taken to be sacrificed to the God Dhu Ghaibat, that is explored further down the page.

(URL) Macoraba was Mecca

A purely speculative, and as becomes increasingly obvious false, presumption, that is clung to in great desperation - as if it could take the place of 4500 year's worth of absent historical and archaeological evidence of a pre-4th century Mecca - is suggestion that Ptolemy's "Macoraba" was Mecca, even through claims of similarity between the two words (perhaps because they both begin with an "m"?), even though the Arabic language did not exist until into the Christian era.

For a 21st century information age presentation of Ptolemy's work, as opposed to parroted Islamic so-called "tradition" and dissimulation from obsolete sources, we urge you to visit this link to a paper titled Suggested Solutions for Issues Concerning The Location of Mecca in Ptolemy¡¯s Geography by Dan Gibson (2013) at academia.edu, for a well reasoned, computer enhanced, locating of Ptolemy's coordinates as adjusted to a modern map (if short on time please scroll to the summary on pages 11 to 14 at that link). To quote a few snippets:

"Over time the names of cities and villages change and ruins crumble and disappear, but river courses, while they may change slightly, are long lasting. Even though water may not flow year round, or perhaps even at all, the existence of the ancient river courses help provide us with several solid coordinates that we can use to bridge between Ptolemy and the globe as we know it today."

"There are a number of city locations on Ptolemy¡¯s map which are well known today. He correctly identifies the Yemeni ports of Muza, Aden (Emporiu Arabia), and Cane. This provides us with four rivers and three coastal cities that we can identify today."

"We then decided to place Ptolemy¡¯s coordinates on a grid without any reference to any maps. Then we would try and match the rivers to see what Ptolemy had done."






"When we attempted to overlay these coordinates on a modern map many problems arose when trying to fit them correctly. (See below)"



     "The solution to this was to manipulate Ptolemy¡¯s coordinates until the rivers lined up. In order to do this we left two places on Ptolemy¡¯s map in the north. Egra (Hegra), known as Mada¡¯in Saleh today, and Gea Town which aligned with ancient Tayma. We then grouped the Beitius River and the other locations near to it and move them all southward until the Betius River was over Wadi Mawr. (The other grouped locations also moved southward). When we did this, many of the interior locations suddenly became apparent. In short, we matched Ptolemy¡¯s Rivers to the location of the rivers today to obtain a correct map of Arabia. In doing so it became apparent that Ptolemy was not aware of the vastness of the deserts in Arabia¡¯s interior, and that he plotted the locations in Yemen too far north.
     Once we had shrunk Ptolemy¡¯s map southward (with a small twist on the bottom to correct Ptolemy¡¯s angle) many of the locations on Ptolemy¡¯s map suddenly fit. Ptolomey¡¯s Centros Village became modern day Jazan, Tebe Town became AlLuhayyah and Macoraba became Al-Mahabishah. Mara was then positioned as Ma¡¯rib and Saudatha became modern day Sana¡¯a. Sapphar then fit over Zafar, and Mochura in the north became Yenbu. On the Indian Ocean coast Petros became modern day Salalah and Mosoha is what we know today as ancient Sumhuram."



If these excerpts interested you, please click on this link for additional information on the historical context, methodology and formulas used, aerial photos of the riverbeds and much more.

From Mr. Gibson's study we confirm that Macoraba was not only an interior settlement of Arabia by any measure (as posited by so many others), but as per Dr. Rafat Amari it was a relatively new settlement at the time that Ptolemy wrote about it, so even if Macoraba had been where Mecca was initially established (in the 4th century AD by the earliest estimates), it would only further confirm that Mecca was relatively new to the scene. From Dr. Rafat Amari:

"Studies by Classical Writers Show That Mecca Could Not Have Been Built Before the 4th Century A.D.

   From a practical standpoint, Ptolemy¡¯s criteria proves valuable when looking for other cities in the Middle East mentioned by him, or even by those in his own country, Egypt. Based on these facts, his work helps us resolve the location problem for some cities, such as Macoraba, which appeared in his generation.

   In book six, chapter seven, of his work titled Geography, Ptolemy documents the latitude and longitude coordinates of several landmarks in Arabia.[lxxxix]  By studying these locations and coordinates, we notice once again that the city of Mecca is never mentioned. In fact, Ptolemy doesn't mention any cities in the strip of land where Mecca was eventually built.

Macoraba was a city in the Arabian interior which was mentioned by Ptolemy. Some people wanted to assume that Macoraba was actually Mecca. Macoraba had appeared recently, with respect to Ptolemy¡¯s time. This assumption would result in the conclusion that Mecca was built around the middle of the 2nd century A.D. However, even if this were true, it wouldn't support the claim that Mecca was an old city existing from the time of Abraham. Upon further study of the facts concerning Macoraba, we can conclude with certainty that Macoraba cannot be Mecca, and we can refute the idea that Mecca was built in the 2nd century A.D. All the facts point to the historical argument that Mecca was constructed in the 4th century A.D. Since Macoraba is not pronounced like Mecca, the scholar Crone suggested that the location of Maqarib, near Yathrib, was actually Macoraba. Maqarib is mentioned by Yaqut al-Hamawi, an Arab geographer who lived from 1179-1229 A.D., in his geographical dictionary Mujam al-Buldan.[xc] This location is more acceptable than Mecca for the modern-day location of Macoraba, because Maqarib is closer in pronunciation to Macoraba than to Mecca. Another reason is that Maqarib, though it does not exactly fit the documented location of Macoraba, is closer to the location, according to the latitude and longitude of Ptolemy, than Mecca is to the documented location of Macoraba."

One thing that is absolutely not arguable, is that obsolete and discredited wishful false presumption, will never be able to stand in for a completely absent 4500 year pre-4th century historical and archaeological record of Mecca. As even Saudi Arabia's museums confirm by an absence of the same.

Like in the Islamic Museum in Mecca. Or the National Museum of Saudi Arabia's page on the pre-Islamic era, where we find discussion of older habitation in northern Arabia, the Yemen area, and even Riyadh - but still no Mecca.


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 Author| Post time 11-11-2018 04:12 PM | Show all posts
mbhcsf replied at 11-11-2018 07:39 AM
awak, awak tahu tak dalam dunia research dan kesarjanaan tu ada method tertentu? dan dalam dunia k ...

Apa dia akak kata? Tamadun barat bermula dari bangsa arab?
awak ta bersifat objektif sebab tamadun barat bermula dari sumber sumber yg awak hina inilah.


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Post time 11-11-2018 04:32 PM | Show all posts
HAVE YOU READ THE TRADITIONS CAREFULLY , first hand and mastering the arabic language?

NO, becaus e you  are relying on the secondary source.

THEY DO NOT EVEN KNOW HOW THEhadith , tradition works in islam.

ni  adalah isu golongn liberal dan atheist depa kononnya percaya saintifik method tapi PEJAMKAN MATA BAGAIMAN SARJANA ISLAM DULU AUTHENTICATE , atau keep the quality of tradition to be INTERNALLY AND EXTERNALLY VALID.

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Post time 11-11-2018 04:36 PM | Show all posts
Part of the reason for their being deceived is that many publications misleadingly intermingle Islamic so-called "tradition", with matters of Muhammad-era and later historical record, rather than creating a separate category for the unhistorical Islamic "tradition" that was created and put to the pen in the 7th to 10th centuries without reference to any actual historical record that preceded the 6th century AD.  


dalam sejarah ade sumber primer dan sekunder , ini sumber yg ahli sejarah pakai , so apa hak awak nak disqualify recorded and documented traditions?

kalau Snouck Hugronje punya manuscript percaya pulak ...
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Post time 11-11-2018 04:37 PM | Show all posts
sebab kalau tolak tradition  kebenaran dimatikan

kalau terima nampak sangat awak salah.
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