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Is God comprise of One, Two Or Three. One God BUT TWO
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Me hve not finished the twones yet and u coming with ur views, opinion and adding ur words to suit urs. me need verses to defend ur faith.
wait still me finished until the words THE END.
p/s: me will come with " God spoke to another Yaweh"
so pls bear with me for few days. |
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Originally posted by gateway at 1-7-2004 08:20 AM:
Lelaki saja kah....perempuan tidak..... Bukan begini kah......Manusia hidup bukan dengan roti sahaja...tetapi dengan setiap perkataanKu.......
Bible itu cuma landasan kehidupan saja.....bible tidak akan dapat mengubah sifat dan sikap manusia....Manusia biasanya memperolehi sikap dan sifatnya daripada keadaan sekeliling yakini kehidupan keluarga dan persekitarannya....Kau bukan lahir saja di dunia..terus boleh baca Bible....
Kerana Engkau adalah manusia sama dengan saya....jadi walaupun kau bijak mengkritik dan mentafsir isi kandungan Bible....Sifat dan sikap kau...tetap tidak akan berubah......manusia tetap ada perasaan marah kecewa....benci...dendam....danlain-lain..... .....ini kenyataannya.....
Kesimpulan saya......walaupun kau bermati-matian menuntut kebenaran tentang kepercayaan kau.......Sorilah.....kerana sikap kau....bukan seperti yang kau tuntut menurut kepercayaan dan tafsiran kau terhadap bible.....
p/s seorang pemimpin..tidak semestinya dapat memimpin dengan 100%.....oleh kerana dia manusia....tetap mempunyai keinginan untuk kepentingan diri sendiri......walaupun dia Padri...pastor...dan pemimpin dunia sekali pun.......kecuali.....Yesus Kristus.......
.... ...
agarnya u tak faham inggris saya...tak apa....i tulis dlm BM. saya minta anda bukan ketawa tapi memberi fakta berlandaskan ayat2 dari Bible. tapi lu kasi ayat2 itu tak masuk akal.
so, kalau nak defend u punya trinity.....di silakan ayat2 dari Bible. |
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Page 8 (cont)
can the Holy Spirit be a co-equal of the Father and the Son,
how can the Spirit be a Person ?
If anyone knew about how many persons there were in
the Godhead, IT MUST HAVE BEEN JESUS !
JESUS IS A WITNESS OF THE THINGS IN
HEAVEN (Rev. 1:5, 3:14).
What Jesus saw in Heaven, He witnessed to the people
and to His disciples (John 3:11). Jesus SAW ONLY THE
PERSON OF THE FATHER, and He constantly - over and
over again in the book of John - revealed and witnessed
ONLY the Father!
Those who preach to the world that the Holy Spirit is a
third Person alongside the Father and the Son have made
the Two Divine Witness - God the Father and God the Son
- out to be liars !
Jesus' relationship with the Father
The Bible speaks of a relationship existing between
God the Father and His Son, Jesus Christ. The Father talks
to His Son (Ps.2:7, 110:4, Mat.3:17, John 12:28). And
Jesus talks to the Father (Ps.22:l, Mat. 11:25, John 11:41-
42). There is communication, fellowship and rapport
between the Father and Jesus because THEY ARE TWO
DIFFERENT PERSONS !
However, you will never find anywhere in the Bible,
the Father talking to the Spirit, the Son talking to the Spirit
or the Spirit talking to Them.
cont'd/... |
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Page 9 (cont'd)
The Bible does not disclose a relationship between the
Father and the Spirit or the Son and the Spirit because such
relationship does not exist!
Jesus under the Father
Trinitarians have often stressed the absolute equalness
of the members of the Godhead. They teach there is no
distinction among the members of the Godhead. If we are
to go to strictly by the Bible - and that is what we must do
if we really love God and His truth - such understanding is
fallacious.
Because Jesus Christ is declared as the Almighty and
the Great God (see Rev. 1:8, Titus 2:13), He is equal to the
Father in ability, power, intelligence and knowledge.
However, Jesus places Himself under the Father (1
Cor. 15:28). The plain words of Jesus in John 10:29 and
14:28 reveal He is subordinate to the Father. The Father -
the Most High - is the spiritual Elder, the Head, the Master-
Organizer of the Divine Family. The Father and the Son are
equal quantitatively but not qualitatively. Even among the
Godhead, a hierarchy exists : first, the Father, then the Son
- the Father has a higher rank than the Son. This is how it
has always been and will continue to be for eternity.
Since the Father is greater in position than the Son,
how can there be only one person in God and how can there
be three persons in God when the Holy Spirit does not
feature in the hierarchy of God ?
Man can only come to the Father through the express
permission of the Son (John 14:6). This makes the Son a
cont'd/.......
[ Last edited by Truth.8 on 1-7-2004 at 01:07 PM ] |
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page 10 (cont)
Mediator (Heb.9:15, 1 Tim.2:5). One Lord the Mediator
and One God the Father makes two persons !
The Divine Organization with a one High God and
one Mediator makes total nonsense of the doctrine that God
is three persons or one person with three forms.
Apostles teach two God-Members
Paul writes in 1 Cor. 8:6, " . . . . .yet for us (Christians)
there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things
come and for whom we live ; and there is but one Lord,
Jesus Christ through whom all things came and through
whom we live " {NIV).
Paul is inspired by Spirit of Christ to enhance the
Shema of Israel. The Shema of Israel declared " Hear, 0
Israel : The Lord our God, the Lord is one " (Deut.6:4,
NIV}. While the Shema was understood to be Unitarian in
nature by the majority of ancient Israel, the new Shema -
THE CHRISTIAN SHEMA - centres on ONE God, ONE
Lord. One God, one Lord does not mean three beings or
one being but TWO GREAT GOD BEINGS !
All the apostles promote a One God and One Lord
Theme in their writings. From the Book of Romans to the
book of Jude - and in 13 of Paul's epistles - the writers
invoke God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ only. The
epistles are like letters of love and instruction from the
Father and Christ to the family of God on earth. They
always begin with greetings from the Father and
cont'd/.....
[ Last edited by Truth.8 on 1-7-2004 at 01:16 PM ] |
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gateway This user has been deleted
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Originally posted by Truth.8 at 1-7-2004 12:53 PM:
agarnya u tak faham inggris saya...tak apa....i tulis dlm BM. saya minta anda bukan ketawa tapi memberi fakta berlandaskan ayat2 dari Bible. tapi lu kasi ayat2 itu tak masuk akal.
so, kalau ...
Tidak faham katamu...:lol.atau kau yang tidak faham bahasa malaysia....saya bukan macam kau.....suka mengkritik..kepercayaan orang lain...persoalannya...saya tidak suka membandingkan....perkataan dan kandungan bible...dan saya tidak suka mentafsir kandungan nya....sebab saya beragama bukan bertujuan untuk mentafsir ayat bible..untuk mengkritik kepercayaan orang lain...:lol.
Anda sudah sedia maklum..truth....kepercayaan anda tentang Jesus Christ..baru setahun jagung....
Kenapa RC semakin berkembang di dunia.....yang kau katakan menyimpang dari bible......:lol....berapa orang saja golongan yang sependapat dengan kau di dunia ini.....:lol...sikit.......ianya seperti perumpamaan tentang menabur biji benih...Kalau biji benih ditabur ditanah yang subur....pasti ianya akan tumbuh dan berbuah banyak...samalah perumpamaan ini dengan RC. Kau ni kan truth....umpama biji benih yang ditabur...di jalan raya....tak bererti langsung...:lol
Itulah harapan.... saya..semoga truth punya faith....akan menjadi pedoman kepada orang lain.....dan orang lain akan mengikuti jejak anda.....Good Luck..truth..dan Gereja truth akan berkembang di dunia....... |
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Originally posted by gateway at 2-7-2004 07:46 AM:
Tidak faham katamu....atau kau yang tidak faham bahasa malaysia....saya bukan macam kau.....suka mengkritik..kepercayaan orang lain...persoalannya...saya tidak suka membandingkan....perkataan dan kandungan bible...dan saya tidak suka mentafsir kandungan nya....sebab saya beragama bukan bertujuan untuk mentafsir ayat bible..untuk mengkritik kepercayaan orang lain....
Anda sudah sedia maklum..truth....kepercayaan anda tentang Jesus Christ..baru setahun jagung....
Kenapa RC semakin berkembang di dunia.....yang kau katakan menyimpang dari bible..........berapa orang saja golongan yang sependapat dengan kau di dunia ini........sikit.......ianya seperti perumpamaan tentang menabur biji benih...Kalau biji benih ditabur ditanah yang subur....pasti ianya akan tumbuh dan berbuah banyak...samalah perumpamaan ini dengan RC. Kau ni kan truth....umpama biji benih yang ditabur...di jalan raya....tak bererti langsung...
Itulah harapan.... saya..semoga truth punya faith....akan menjadi pedoman kepada orang lain.....dan orang lain akan mengikuti jejak anda.....Good Luck..truth..dan Gereja truth akan berkembang di dunia.......
...
kenapa asyik dengan ayat2 tapi tiada ada ayat2 dari Bible untuk defend u punya faith.
memanglah RC berkembang.....tak semestinya kalau rc berkembang kebenaran ada pada rc. bukan numbers thats counts but faith.
baca ini dari kitab Bible. Jeus berkata:
in last day only small group will keeping my truth. THIS IS ARE MY LITTLE FLOCK
maksud: hanya segelinitir umat aja mengamakan kebenaran pada hari terakhir. apakah RC "little flock"?? jadi bukan ramai macam rc di seluruh dunia tapi hanya sikit yg mengamalkan kebenaran. t
tidak kah Rc membawa malu keatas umat kristian dengan paderi dengan homosexual?? apakah ini benar???
[ Last edited by Truth.8 on 2-7-2004 at 12:21 PM ] |
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Page 11 (cont'd)
Just think, if the Holy Spirit were a person like the
Father and Christ, why is He not sending His greetings as
the Father and the Son do ?
In 1 John 1:3, apostle John writes, " our fellowship is
with the Father and with His Son Jesus Christ " {NKJV).
The word fellowship here means spiritual communion. This
verse quite clearly tells us we are to pray to and have a
personal relationship with only TWO PERSONS - the
Father and Jesus Christ!
It is obvious, the apostles and the true Church of the
first century knew of no Trinity in the Godhead. They
believed and taught a One God, one Lord creed.
This One God, one Lord creed did not renounce the
oneness of God because the Hebrew name used for God -
Elohim - is actually a plural noun. Thus Elohim is a
FAMILY NAME for God. There is ONE ELOHIM
FAMILY - ONE GOD - consisting of TWO PERSONS ; a
chief who takes on the family name of GOD and FATHER
and the other who takes on the mediatorial name of LORD
and CHRIST.
God and the Lamb
The Book of Revelation - the final revelation about the
things of God and the events at the end of the age - is the
place where all Christians must look into, to clarify and
confirm once for all whether there is one, two or three
persons in the God Family.
What does the book of Revelation reveal about God
cont'd/.....
[ Last edited by Truth.8 on 2-7-2004 at 12:17 PM ] |
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Page 12 (con't)
The first chapter reveals the glorified appearance of
Jesus Christ. He is declared as Alpha and Omega on
several occasions. This unveils His eternity - He was there
to start the creation and He will be there to complete the
creation. He is Yahweh, El Shaddai and Elohim !
Chapter Four briefly describes God the Father's
appearance. He is pictured as a Supreme Heavenly Ruler
sitting on the Throne controlling the entire universe. He is
called the Lord God Almighty and He is responsible for the
existence of all created things. He is the Supreme One !
The 7 lamps of fire burning before His Throne are not
a symbol of the Holy Spirit, but they are 7 spirits - 7 special
or elect angelic beings - who live close to God and who are
sent out by Him to accomplish important missions. Rev. 8:2
unveils these 7 spirits are actually 7 angels who carry out
God's final wrath on a sinning human race.
Chapter 5 pictures a slain lamb before God's Throne.
He is worshipped and exalted and His Name is placed
along with the Lord God Almighty in heavenly benediction
(Rev.5:13,7:10).
The Lamb of course is CHRIST, and the Lord God
Almighty is the FATHER, these TWO PERSONS are
worshipped, praised, exalted, blessed and glorified.WHY?
Because these Two Individuals are ETERNALLY
LIVING ALMIGHTY BEINGS - THEY ARE GOD !
No revelation is given of the Holy Spirit, no
appearance described, no prayer of thanksgiving or praise
offered.
Why?
cont'd/.....
[ Last edited by Truth.8 on 2-7-2004 at 12:27 PM ] |
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Originally posted by Truth.8 at 2004-6-28 04:18 PM:
Page 4(con't)
not Trinitarian nor Unitarian but Binitarian (twoness) - if
one may use a modem secular term.
In His great prayer before His arrest and trial, ...
Jesus looks up to Heaven because He knows God is
bodily present there. He calls Him Father and claims to be
His Son. This means Jesus is not the Father and the Father
is not Jesus. They are separate persons, the Father is in
Heaven while the Son is on earth as a man. So simple to
understand and believe, yet there are people who believe in
the doctrine of oneness which says God is just one person
who acts as the Father, the Son or the Holy Spirit.
indeed god n jesus r 2 separate persons. god is god n jesus is man not god HIMSELF. yet u put 2 n 2 together makin assumptions these 2 persons make 1 god almighty. ur assumptions r not HARDproofs that god comprisin god n jesus. as it is, u have yet to produce the HARDproof that jesus is indeed god
n ONE N ONLY ONE GOD means jest that. the bible never says ONE N ONLY GOD acts as father son n holy spirit. uh huh. ur postin is cockeye 
peace |
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Originally posted by Truth.8 at 2004-6-29 10:57 AM:
Page 5 (con't)
- the Father - before Heaven and earth was made. So how
can there be a triune God ?
In another incident of the Gospels, Jesus made this
po ...
Jesus claimed perfect unity between Him and His
Father. He declared : " I and My Father are One." (John
10:30, NKJV). This does mean that Jesus and the Father are
one person because Jesus Himself testified : "I am not
alone, but I am with the Father who sent Me " (John 8:16,
NKJV}. Jesus is saying He is not the sole God-Being, He is
united with someone else - the Father.
ur posting discredit not only trinity but also twoness christianity. as usual u r assumin jesus is god when he said i n me dad r 1. so wots ur assumption when jesus says dad is greater than i? read in the real context not puttin 2 n 2
peace
john 10:29
My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
(Is Jesus God?)
10:30
I and my Father are one.
10:31
Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
10:32
Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
10:33
(How many gods are there?)
The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
10:34
Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
10:35
If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
10:36
Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
10:37
If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.
(Is Jesus God?)
10:38
But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.
10:39
Therefore they sought again to take him: but he escaped out of their hand,
10:40
And went away again beyond Jordan into the place where John at first baptized; and there he abode.
10:41
And many resorted unto him, and said, John did no miracle: but all things that John spake of this man were true.
10:42
And many believed on him there.
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Originally posted by Truth.8 at 2004-6-30 11:36 AM:
Page 5 (con't)
For the simple reason the Holy Spirit was not a person
existing among the Father and the Son.
Those churches clamouring for unity under the Trinity
need to explain wh ...
If the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are one, why
doesn't Jesus declare it ? Either the Trinity is a stupendous
lie or the the Son of God is a liar !
yup jesus never declares father son n holy spirit r 1. there goes trinity out of the window, stupendous lie
nonetheless when jesus says dad n i r 1, he also contradicts his socalled oneness when he says dad is greater than i. hence twoness christianity is also stupendous lie coz jesus son of god dont lie. all of us r children of god. we r god's creations thru sperms n eggs as much as jesus is god's creation thru miracle. god dont create himself
peace
[ Last edited by sonny~~ on 3-7-2004 at 11:24 AM ] |
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Originally posted by Truth.8 at 2004-6-30 11:45 AM:
Page 6 (cont)
used " three witnesses" instead of " two " when quoting
from Deut.l9:15. And if God were just one person - just
Jesus, the so-called oneness - then al ...
1 John 5:6, NKJV)
This verse talks about the coming of God in the flesh -
He was not only born a human but He also died a human.
nope. u're lyin. god never says hes jest one person - jest jesus, the socalled oneness. no where in the bible that god specifically says hes jesus. uh huh. neither did jesus ever say hes god. u're makin assumptions
n god dont die. man can die but not god. when jesus died thats HARDproof hes no god. the bible never says god can die. if god can die then hes no more divine, no more almighty. hes like u n i - can die, can shit, can cry etc
peace |
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Originally posted by Truth.8 at 2004-6-30 10:23 PM:
Page 7 (cont)
(5). . .because they have not known the Father
nor Me (16:3).
Everyone should be able to see by now Jesus never
proclaimed a one-in-three or three-in-one God, He preached
a I AND MY FATHER GOD - and I AND MY FA THER are
TWO PERSONS !
boy o boy ure makin a mess of ur twoness christianity as u defraud trinity
as much as jesus never proclaims 1 in 3 or 3 in 1 god, he also never proclaims 1 in 2 or 2 in 1 god. he never preaches I N DAD GOD thing. ure merely assumin. otherwise jesus would have specifically said (in the bible) that he n dad is god. he always says dad is god. but he never says he himself is god. read the bible as it is, not readin the bible n makin assumptions
peace |
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Originally posted by Truth.8 at 2004-7-1 01:02 PM:
Page 8 (cont)
can the Holy Spirit be a co-equal of the Father and the Son,
how can the Spirit be a Person ?
If anyone knew about how many persons there were in
the Godhead, IT MUST ...
There is communication, fellowship and rapport
between the Father and Jesus because THEY ARE TWO
DIFFERENT PERSONS !
However, you will never find anywhere in the Bible,
the Father talking to the Spirit, the Son talking to the Spirit
or the Spirit talking to Them.
makin assumpitons agin. jesus talkin to god dont mean hes god. when u recite our father, u're talkin to god. right? that dont make us god. right? but indeed we're sons of god like jesus is. right? why we talkin to god dont make us god yet jesus talkin to god makes him god from trinity/twoness viewpoint?
peace |
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Originally posted by Truth.8 at 2004-7-1 01:06 PM:
Page 9 (cont'd)
The Bible does not disclose a relationship between the
Father and the Spirit or the Son and the Spirit because such
relationship does not exist!
Jesus under the Fath ...
Because Jesus Christ is declared as the Almighty and
the Great God (see Rev. 1:8, Titus 2:13), He is equal to the
Father in ability, power, intelligence and knowledge.
However, Jesus places Himself under the Father (1
Cor. 15:28). The plain words of Jesus in John 10:29 and
14:28 reveal He is subordinate to the Father.
there u go makin assumptions. trinity says god = jesus = holy spirit. nonetheless twoness says socalled god jesus wanna be subordinate to god the father.
inother words, trinity n twoness r fraud in plain english.
when jesus says he wanna be subservient to god, thats exactly wot he means ie he as man wanna be subservient to god as much as we as man wanna be subservient to god.
jesus prays to god before his crucifiction. right? god dont pray to another god n god dont pray to HIMSELF. right? hence jesus is man not god. trinity n twoness r mere assumptions by man
peace |
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btw TRUTH8, u should try rebutt me response. bro deb***sfe should also try rebutt TRUTH8 n SONNY with HARDfacts from the bible if he can :hmm: |
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the fact remain that Jesus is God according to Bible verses. U do not defend ur faith according to the Bibel verses.
anyway, will coming with my verse "God says to another Yaweh" TWO DIVINE BEINGS. |
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Post time 1-7-2004 12:14 PM
Author
