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[Pelbagai] [Content Warning] Connection To God

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Author: KILL_NANCY    From the mobile phone    Show all posts   Read mode

Post time 12-2-2019 04:14 PM | Show all posts
KILL_NANCY replied at 12-2-2019 08:02 AM
mudah ke kalau tersasar nak patah balik?

thanks dila sudi join thread saya.

dosa kita setinggi langit pun...Allah tetap akan ampunkan ..nak dengan tidak je kita ni nak  mintak ampun

doala baik baik so kita akan sedar..banyak ni tersasar



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 Author| Post time 12-2-2019 04:30 PM From the mobile phone | Show all posts
adila39 replied at 12-2-2019 04:14 PM
dosa kita setinggi langit pun...Allah tetap akan ampunkan ..nak dengan tidak je kita ni nak  minta ...

Allah tu maha pengampun lagi maha penyayang, memang benar selagi kita tak syirik, Allah itu akan ampunkan dosa kita .... tapi bila kita dah kembali balik ke jalanNya.bukankah taufik dan hidayah itu milik Allah?senang ke nak kecapinya dila?

lagi satu dosa dari bumi ke langit tu dosa syirik dila.dosa setinggi langit itu metafora tak masuk akta dalam taubatan nasuha.

bila dah cerita pasal taubatan nasuha ni, maka kita akan berbalik pada yang Satu.syirik dah tak wujud, sebab kita dah rasa kemanisan taufik dan hidayah tu.isunya di sini, semudah mana nak dapat hidayah tu?

apa pun jangan pernah mencuba.kalau ikut kitab ihya ulumiddin tersasar tu maksudnya sangat berat.tersasar itu diintepretasikan sebagai murtad keluar daripada agama.boleh baca pada kitab2 kuning dan rujuk pada guru yang bertauliah.



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Post time 12-2-2019 04:31 PM | Show all posts
  The Practice of Sati (Widow Burning)

by Linda Heaphy May 02, 2017


Suttee by James Atkinson, 1831, in the India Office Collection of the British Library (c) British Library Board 2009

In this age of ascending feminism and focus on equality and human rights, it is difficult to assimilate the Hindu practice of sati, the burning to death of a widow on her husband's funeral pyre, into our modern world.  Indeed, the practice is outlawed and illegal in today's India, yet it occurs up to the present day and is still regarded by some Hindus as the ultimate form of womanly devotion and sacrifice.

Sati (also called suttee) is the practice among some Hindu communities by which a recently widowed woman either voluntarily or by use of force or coercion commits suicide as a result of her husband's death.  The best known form of sati is when a woman burns to death on her husband's funeral pyre.  However other forms of sati exist, including being buried alive with the husband's corpse and drowning.
The term sati is derived from the original name of the goddess Sati, also known as Dakshayani, who self-immolated because she was unable to bear her father Daksha's humiliation of her (living) husband Shiva.  Sati as practice is first mentioned in 510 CCE, when a stele commemorating such an incident was erected at Eran, an ancient city in the modern state of Madhya Pradesh.  The custom began to grow in popularity as evidenced by the number of stones placed to commemorate satis, particularly in southern India and amongst the higher castes of Indian society, despite the fact that the Brahmins originally condemned the practice (Auboyer 2002).  Over the centuries the custom died out in the south only to become prevalent in the north, particularly in the states of Rajasthan and Bengal.  While comprehensive data are lacking across India and through the ages, the British East India Company recorded that the total figure of known occurrences for the period 1813 - 1828 was 8,135; another source gives the number of 7,941 from 1815 - 1828, an average of 618 documented incidents per year.  However, these numbers are likely to grossly underestimate the real number of satis as in 1823, 575 women performed sati in the state of Bengal alone (Hardgrave 1998).

Historically, the practice of sati was to be found among many castes and at every social level, chosen by or for both uneducated and the highest ranking women of the times.  The common deciding factor was often ownership of wealth or property, since all possessions of the widow devolved to the husband's family upon her death. In a country that shunned widows, sati was considered the highest expression of wifely devotion to a dead husband (Allen & Dwivedi 1998, Moore 2004).  It was deemed an act of peerless piety and was said to purge her of all her sins, release her from the cycle of birth and rebirth and ensure salvation for her dead husband and the seven generations that followed her (Moore 2004). Because its proponents lauded it as the required conduct of righteous women, it was not considered to be suicide, otherwise banned or discouraged by Hindu scripture. Sati also carried romantic associations which some were at apparent pains to amplify. Stein (1978) states "The widow on her way to the pyre was the object (for once) of all public attention...Endowed with the gift of prophecy and the power to cure and bless, she was immolated amid great fanfare, with great veneration".  Only if she was virtuous and pious would she be worthy of being sacrificed; consequently being burned or being seen as a failed wife were often her only choices (Stein 1978).  Indeed, the very reference to the widow from the point at which she decided to become a "Sati" (Chaste One) removed any further personal reference to her as an individual and elevated her to a remote and untouchable context.  It is little wonder that women growing up in a culture in which they were so little valued as individuals considered it the only way for a good wife to behave.  The alternative, anyway, was not appealing.  After the death of a husband an Hindi widow was expected to live the life of an aesthetic, renouncing all social activities, shaving her head, eating only boiled rice and sleeping on thin coarse matting (Moore 2004).  To many, death may have been preferable, especially for those who were still girls themselves when their husband's died.

Over the centuries, many of India's inhabitants have disagreed with the practice of sati.   Since its very foundation the Sikh religion has explicitly prohibited it.  Sati was regarded as a barbaric practice by the Islamic rulers of the Mogul period, and many tried to halt the custom with laws and edicts banning the practice.  Many Hindu scholars have argued against sati, calling it "as suicide, and...a pointless and futile act"; both abolitionists and promoters of sati use Hindu scripture as justification of their position.  At the end of the 18th Century, the influx of Europeans into India meant that the practice of sati was being scrutinised as never before; missionaries, travellers and civil servants alike condemned official Raj tolerance of the "dreadful practice" and called for its end (Hardgrave 1998).   In 1827 the Governor-General of India, Lord Bentinck, finally outlawed the custom in its entirety, claiming it had no sound theological basis (James 1998).  James also notes that the outlawing of sati practice was considered the first direct affront to Indian religious beliefs and therefore contributed to the end of the British Raj.  However the common people felt about it, many Indian rulers of the 19th century welcomed its abolition (Allen & Dwivedi 1998).

Most recorded instances of sati during the 1800's were described as "voluntary" acts of courage and devotion (Hardgrave 1998), a conviction that sati advocates continue to promote to this day. At the very least, women committing sati were encouraged by priests (who received the best item from the women's possessions as payment), the relatives of both families (who received all the women's remaining possessions and untold blessings) and by general peer pressure. However it appears that at least in some recorded cases the women were drugged. In "An Account of a Woman Burning Herself, By an Officer," which appeared in the Calcutta Gazette in 1785, the observer describes the woman as likely under the influence of bhang (marijuana) or opium but otherwise "unruffled." After she was lifted upon the pyre, she "laid herself down by her deceased husband, with her arms about his neck. Two people immediately passed a rope twice across the bodies, and fastened it so tight to the stakes that it would have effectually prevented her from rising had she attempted".

Once the reality of burning to death became obvious, many women tried to escape their fate.  Measures and implements were put into place to ensure that they could not. Edward Thompson wrote that a woman "was often bound to the corpse with cords, or both bodies were fastened down with long bamboo poles curving over them like a wooden coverlet, or weighted down by logs."  These poles were continuously wetted down to prevent them from burning and the widow from escaping (Parkes, 1850).  If she did manage to escape, she and her relatives were ostracised by society, as is related by the redoubtable Fanny Parkes, wife of a minor British civil servant during the early 1800's, who gives a frank eyewitness account in 1823 of a sati burning and the consequences:

A rich baniya, a corn chandler, whose house was near the gate of our grounds, departed this life; he was an Hindu. On the 7th of November, the natives in the bazaar were making a great noise with their tom-toms, drums, and other discordant musical instruments, rejoicing that his widow had determined to perform sati, i.e., to burn on his funeral-pile.

The [English] magistrate sent for the woman, used every argument to dissuade her, and offered her money. Her only answer was dashing her head on the floor, and saying, 'If you will not let me burn with my husband, I will hang myself in your court of justice.' The shastras say, The prayers and imprecations of a sati are never uttered in vain; the great gods themselves cannot listen to them unmoved.'
If a widow touches either food or water from the time her husband expires until she ascends the pile, she cannot, by Hindu law, be burned with the body; therefore the magistrate kept the corpse forty-eight hours, in the hope that hunger would compel the woman to eat. Guards were set over her, but she never touched anything. My husband accompanied the magistrate to see the sati: about five thousand people were collected together on the banks of the Ganges: the pile was then built, and the putrid body placed upon it; the magistrate stationed guards to prevent the people from approaching it. After having bathed in the river, the widow lighted a brand, walked round the pile, set it on fire, and then mounted cheerfully: the flame caught and blazed up instantly; she sat down, placing the head of the corpse on her lap, and repeated several times the usual form, 'Ram, Ram, sati; Ram, Ram, sati;' i.e., 'God, God, I am chaste.'

As the wind drove the fierce fire upon her, she shook her arms and limbs as if in agony; at length she started up and approached the side to escape. An Hindu, one of the police who had been placed near the pile to see she had fair play, and should not be burned by force, raised his sword to strike her, and the poor wretch shrank back into the flames. The magistrate seized and committed him to prison. The woman again approached the side of the blazing pile, sprang fairly out, and ran into the Ganges, which was within a few yards. When the crowd and the brothers of the dead man saw this, they called out, 'Cut her down, knock her on the head with a bamboo; tie her hands and feet, and throw her in again' and rushed down to execute their murderous intentions, when the gentlemen and the police drove them back.

The woman drank some water, and having extinguished the fire on her red garment, said she would mount the pile again and be burned.
The magistrate placed his hand on her shoulder (which rendered her impure), and said, 'By your own law, having once quitted the pile you cannot ascend again; I forbid it. You are now an outcast from the Hindus, but I will take charge of you, the [East India] Company will protect you, and you shall never want food or clothing.'

He then sent her, in a palanquin, under a guard, to the hospital. The crowd made way, shrinking from her with signs of horror, but returned peaceably to their homes: the Hindus annoyed at her escape, and the Musulmans saying, 'It was better that she should escape, but it was a pity we should have lost the tamasha (amusement) of seeing her burnt to death.'

Had not the magistrate and the English gentlemen been present, the Hindus would have cut her down when she attempted to quit the fire; or had she leapt out, would have thrown her in again, and have said, 'She performed sati of her own accord, how could we make her? It was the will of God.' ... 'What good will burning do you?' asked a bystander. She replied, 'The women of my husband's family have all been satis, why should I bring disgrace upon them? I shall go to heaven, and afterwards reappear on earth, and be married to a very rich man.' She was about twenty or twenty-five years of age, and possessed of some property, for the sake of which her relatives wished to put her out of the world.

As a result of being outlawed, sati began to decline in the 19th Century but persisted in parts of India, particularly Rajasthan, a state with one of the lowest literacy rates in India.  Chimnabai, wife of Sayajirao Gaekwad III, Maharaja of Baroda from 1875 to 1939, was a tireless campaigner for the rights of Indian women.  In 1927 in a speech at the first All-India Women's Conference she called sati a curse, but also noted that the practice no longer posed a great risk to Indian women, unlike the practices of girl-child marriage and the institution of purdah.

The Wife Burning Herself with Some of her Husband's Property,
etching by Solvyng 1799

In the late 1950's, a royal sati took place. Performed in Jodhpur by Sugankunverba, the widow of Brigadier Jabbar Singh Sisodia, her act of self-immolation occurred illegally and supposedly in secret.  The Maharani Padmavati Gaekwad of Baroda, her close friend, provided this account of her death in 1984:

About a month before he died she stopped eating and drinking. She went about her household chores, looked after her husband and nursed him, but without letting on she got together all the things required for the last rites. I used to go to their house to cheer them up and one evening just a little before sun-down as I drove into the compound, I heard this very deep chanting of Ram-Ram as if coming from a deep, echoing chasm. He had passed away two minutes earlier and she had already announced that she was going to commit sati when he was cremated at sunrise. While they attended to his body she went to her bathroom, had a bath and put on the brand new clothes that she had stored in her trunk. For sati we don't wear widow's clothes but wedding clothes, with the ivory bangles and everything. The colour she chose was a sort of light pink called saptalu, which none of the wives of the Sisodias can now wear because they now do puja to that colour. When she had dressed she sat with her husband's head on her lap all night. Twice his body perspired and twice she wiped it down saying, 'Why are you so impatient, I am coming with you. Be calm. The sun's first rays are still to come.' Morning came and her devar arrived, her husband's brother who was going to perform the last rites. When he doubted her intentions she got up and sat over the lamp which they kept burning near the dead body. She fanned the flames with the hem of her sari and sat there for five minutes until he said, 'I'm satisfied.' Now normally when a sati goes to the pyre she is accompanied by a procession, but the word had spread like wildfire through the whole city and people started gathering. So she said, 'We can't walk, bring cars and a truck,' and in this way they avoided the police who were waiting at the entrance to the big burning ghat. She had sent for me, but I didn't get the message and got there late and by that time the flames had got too high for me to see her - but I heard her voice saying 'Ram-Ram', which never stopped for a second until she died. She is worshipped today not only by Rajputs but by everybody and so many artis and bhqjans (devotional songs) have been composed about her, and her funeral pyre burnt for almost six months non-stop with all the coconuts that people kept putting on it.

There are many interesting points about this particular sati event.  The woman was obviously deeply attached to her husband and devastated at his death.  However no attempt was made to dissuade the woman from committing suicide; indeed her brother-in-law was concerned only with whether she would go through with it on the day and not bring shame to the family name.   While several thousand people manage to catch wind of the event and attend the immolation, the authorities did absolutely nothing to prevent it, despite its illegal status.  And at least up to the mid 1980's when this account was recorded, Sugankunverba was still regarded as a martyr, idolised in poems and songs and worshiped as a saint by the women of her family.  If the Indian authorities were serious about stamping out sati altogether, then well publicised voluntary satis such as this one did nothing to remove any lingering glamour associated with the act.

In today's India, sati is rarely discussed openly.  Ostensibly, it is considered a shameful practice, particularly by the burgeoning middle class, long outlawed and of interest only as a minor historical footnote.  And yet the practice continues, particularly in rural areas of India, with over forty documented cases occurring since the 1950's (The Team, 2006), approximately one recorded incidence per year, with some anecdotal evidence to suggest that there are a much greater number of successful and unsuccessful sati attempts (Shiva 2008).  Indeed, pro-sati advocates, generally men, demand the right to commit, worship, and propagate sati (Parilla 1999).  One well documented case, that of 18-year old Roop Kanwar, occurred in 1987 at the village Deorala in Rajasthan.  Eyewitness reports of the incident present conflicting stories about the voluntariness of her death: that she was dragged from a shed in which she had been hiding, that she was sedated, that she herself told her brother-in-law to light the pyre when she was ready.  Several thousand people managed to attend the event, after which she was hailed as a "pure mother".  Devotees from all over India flocked to her shrine to pay homage, bringing huge revenues and status to the village.  The event produced a public outcry in urban centres and served to pit a modern Indian ideology against a very traditional one.  After Kanwar's death, the Sati Dharma Raksha Samti or Committee for the Defence of the Religion of Sati was formed (Hawley 1994), run and supported by educated young Rajput men who stated that sati was a "fundamental part of their traditions; a refusal to legitimize sati, they said, was a deliberate attempt to marginalize the Rajputs" (Kumar 1995).  Kanwar's sati led to the creation of state level laws to prevent the occurrence and glorification of future incidents and the creation of the central Indian government's The Commission of Sati (Prevention) Act 1987.  However, of the 56 people charged with her murder, participation in her murder or glorification of her murder during two separate investigations, all were subsequently acquitted.

Other incidents of sati continue to take place.  Fifty-five year old Charan Shah's self-immolation in 1999 at Satpura village in Uttar Pradesh is shrouded in mystery as witnesses refused to co-operate with official investigations.  Shah's suicide is notable because it led to the publication of a vitriolic article apparently justifying the practice of sati and demanding the repeal of the Commission of Sati (Prevention) Act, by a respected female academic, Madhu Kishwar (published in Manushi, Issue 115).  In May 2006, Vidyawati, a 35-year-old woman allegedly jumped into the funeral pyre of her husband in Rari-Bujurg Village, Uttar Pradesh. In August 2006, Janakrani, a 40-year-old woman, died on the funeral pyre of her husband in Sagar district. In October 2008, a 75-year-old woman committed sati by jumping into her 80-year-old husband's funeral pyre at Checher in Raipur.

Following public outcries after each instance there have been various reforms passed which now make it illegal even to be a bystander at a sati event.  Other measures include efforts to stop the glorification of the victims, including the erection of shrines over their ashes, the encouragement of pilgrimages to the site of the pyre and the derivation of any income from such sites and pilgrims.However, it must be recognized that the tradition of sati in India is very complex indeed.  Despite the existence of state and country-wide laws prohibiting the act and its glorification, incidents continue to occur every year and may be on the increase.  As one Indian feminist notes, these occurrences confirm that deeply held and deeply cherished norms cannot be changed simply by enacting laws (Shiva 2008).

Burning of A Hindoo Widow, by James Peggs

References and further reading
Allen, Charles & Dwivedi, Sharada 1998.  Lives of the Indian Princes.  Arena Edition, Mumbai.
Auboyer, Jeannine 2002.  Daily Life in Ancient India: From 200 BC to 700 AD.  Phoenix Press, London.
Hardgrave,Robert L, Jr 1998.  The Representation of Sati: Four Eighteenth Century Etchings by Baltazard Solvyns. Bengal Past and Present, 117: 57-80. Reprinted here http://www.laits.utexas.edu/solvyns-project/Satiart.rft.html Accessed on 1 August 2010
Hawley, John Stratton 1994.  Sati, the Blessing and the Curse: The Burning of Wives in India.  Oxford University Press, New York.
James, Lawrence 1998.  Raj: the Making and Unmaking of British India.  The Softback Preview, Great Britan
Kishwar, Madhu (date unknown) Deadly Laws and Zealous Reformers. Manushi Issue 115 and reprinted here http://www.indiatogether.org/manushi/issue115/madhu.htm Accessed on 2 August 2010
Kumar, Radha, 1995.  From Chipko to Sati: The Contemporary Indian Women's Movement.  In The Challenge of Local Feminisms: Women's Movements in Global Perspective. Amrita Basu, ed.  Westview Press, Boulder.
Moore, Lucy 2004. Maharanis: the Extraordinary Tale of Four Indian Queens and Their Journey from Purdah to Parliament.  Penguin Books, India.
Parrilla, Vanessa 1999.  Sati: Virtuous Woman Through Self-Sacrifice.  Reprinted here http://www.csuchico.edu/~cheinz/syllabi/asst001/spring99/parrilla/parr1.htm Accessed on August 2010
Parkes, Fanny 1850.  Wanderings of a Pilgrim in Search of the Picturesque, during Four-and-Twenty Years in the East; With Revelations of Life in the Zenana.  Pelham Richardson, London.
Shakuntala Rao Shastri 1960.  Women in the Sacred Laws - The Later Law Books.  Reprinted here http://www.hindubooks.org/women_in_the_sacredlaws/ Accessed 25 July 2010.
Shiva, 2008.  Widow Burning. India Facts http://india-facts.com/news/women-abuse/2008122152/widow-burning-sati/ Accessed 2 August 2010
Stein, DK 1978.  Women to Burn: Suttee as a Normative Institution. Signs 4 (2): 253-268.  University of Chicago Press.
The Team, 2006SATI resurfaces in MP.  Published in A different stroke of news views from India Accessed 2 August 2010.
WikipediaSati (practice) Accessed on 25 July 2014



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Post time 12-2-2019 04:46 PM | Show all posts
KILL_NANCY replied at 12-2-2019 08:30 AM
Allah tu maha pengampun lagi maha penyayang, memang benar selagi kita tak syirik, Allah itu akan a ...

harap harap kita semua dijauhkan sebagai golongan yg syirik ni. nauzubillah.

saya bukan arif sangat..yg tau hanya yg basic basic je kill...yg i tau...Allah tu maha pengampun. Dia tahu apa dalam hati kita tu ikhlas ke tak bila mintak ampun. So on this point i suka untuk berdoa dan serah pd Allah

Bab yang syirik ni, moga Allah berilah hidayah kpd mereka. Dan nak dapat hidayah ni bukan mudah , rahsia Allah ni...DIA je tahu...sbb tu kadang kita tengok satu gansgter ni..jahat giler.....tetiba berubah...haa tu kuasa Allah. Sebab hidayah ni Allah yang akan berikan...kita ni hanya boleh dan mampu untuk berdoa je...semoga Allah berikan kita hidayah, paling tak kita mintak Allah...ya Allah lindungi aku dari terus melakukan perkara yg tidak baik..bimbingla aku ya Allah. Ayah i selalu kata...cakap je la bahasa apa pun Allah akan faham x ckp apa pun Allah akan tetap tahu...so the issue is kita...cth dila ni sendiri hendak ke tidak nak menjadi baik ke tidak...so kenalah push diri sikit baca benda baik baik tengok benda baik baik dan menjadi lebih baik ni is a process ...utk org mcm dila ni...kenalah praktis dan push diri sikit...

semakin kita cuba, satu hari nanti Allah akan mudahkan...i trust on this.

Infact...i think life is prety simple..u do or u dont so for me. i am trying slowly but hopefuly consistent..but again so many things yg masih lopong lopong takpelah cuba la lagi...

same to u kill...have a blessing day and yeah...enjoy la being young.



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Post time 12-2-2019 04:51 PM | Show all posts
12 worst ideas religion has unleashed on the world: Conflict, cruelty and suffering -- not love and peaceOur shared moral/spiritual core matters. But religion has also promoted some of the worst ideas humanity has known

Valerie Tarico) Some of humanitys technological innovations are things we would have been better off without: the medieval rack, the atomic bomb and powdered lead potions come to mind. Religions tend to invent ideas or concepts rather than technologies, but like every other creative human enterprise, they produce some really bad ones along with the good.

I've previously highlighted some of humanitys best moral and spiritual concepts, our shared moral core. Here, by way of contrast, are some of the worst. These twelve dubious concepts promote conflict, cruelty, suffering and death rather than love and peace. To paraphrase Christopher Hitchens, they belong in the dustbin of history just as soon as we can get them there.
Chosen People CThe term Chosen People typically refers to the Hebrew Bible and the ugly idea that God has given certain tribes a Promised Land (even though it is already occupied by other people). But in reality many sects endorse some version of this concept. The New Testament identifies Christians as the chosen ones. Calvinists talk about Gods elect, believing that they themselves are the special few who were chosen before the beginning of time. Jehovahs witnesses believe that 144,000 souls will get a special place in the afterlife. In many cultures certain privileged and powerful bloodlines were thought to be descended directly from gods (in contrast to everyone else).

Religious sects are inherently tribal and divisive because they compete by making mutually exclusive truth claims and by promising blessings or afterlife rewards that no competing sect can offer. Gang symbols like special haircuts, attire, hand signals and jargon differentiate insiders from outsiders and subtly (or not so subtly) convey to both that insiders are inherently superior.
Heretics C Heretics, kafir, or infidels (to use the medieval Catholic term) are not just outsiders, they are morally suspect and often seen as less than fully human. In the Torah, slaves taken from among outsiders dont merit the same protections as Hebrew slaves. Those who dont believe in a god are corrupt, doers of abominable deeds. There is none [among them] who does good, says the Psalmist.

Islam teaches the concept of dhimmitude and provides special rules for the subjugation of religious minorities, with monotheists getting better treatment than polytheists. Christianity blurs together the concepts of unbeliever and evildoer. Ultimately, heretics are a threat that needs to be neutralized by conversion, conquest, isolation, domination, orin worst casesmass murder.
Holy War C If war can be holy, anything goes. The medieval Roman Catholic Church conducted a twenty year campaign of extermination against heretical Cathar Christians in the south of France, promising their land and possessions to real Christians who signed on as crusaders. Sunni and Shia Muslims have slaughtered each other for centuries. The Hebrew scriptures recount battle after battle in which their war God, Yahweh, helps them to not only defeat but also exterminate the shepherding cultures that occupy their Promised Land. As in later holy wars, like the modern rise of ISIS, divine sanction let them kill the elderly and children, burn orchards, and take virgin females as sexual slavesall while retaining a sense of moral superiority.
Blasphemy C Blasphemy is the notion that some ideas are inviolable, off limits to criticism, satire, debate, or even question. By definition, criticism of these ideas is an outrage, and it is precisely this emotionCoutrageCthat the crime of blasphemy evokes in believers. The Bible prescribes death for blasphemers; the Quran does not, but death-to-blasphemers became part of Shariah during medieval times.

The idea that blasphemy must be prevented or avenged has caused millions of murders over the centuries and countless other horrors. As I write, blogger Raif Badawi awaits round after round of flogging in Saudi Arabia1000 lashes in batches of 50while his wife and children plead from Canada for the international community to do something.

Glorified suffering C Picture secret societies of monks flogging their own backs. The image that comes to mind is probably from Dan Browns novel, The Da Vinci Code, but the idea isnt one he made up. A core premise of Christianity is that righteous tortureif its just intense and prolonged enoughCcan somehow fix the damage done by evil, sinful behavior. Millions of crucifixes litter the world as testaments to this belief. Shia Muslims beat themselves with lashes and chains during Aashura, a form of sanctified suffering called Matam that commemorates the death of the martyr Hussein. Self-denial in the form of asceticism and fasting is a part of both Eastern and Western religions, not only because deprivation induces altered states but also because people believe suffering somehow brings us closer to divinity.

Our ancestors lived in a world in which pain came unbidden, and people had very little power to control it. An aspirin or heating pad would have been a miracle to the writers of the Bible, Quran, or Gita. Faced with uncontrollable suffering, the best advice religion could offer was to lean in or make meaning of it. The problem, of course is that glorifying sufferingturning it into a spiritual goodhas made people more willing to inflict it on not only themselves and their enemies but also those who are helpless, including the ill or dying (as in the case of Mother Teresa and the American Bishops) and children (as in the child beating Patriarchy movement).
Genital mutilation C Primitive people have used scarification and other body modifications to define tribal membership for as long as history records. But genital mutilation allowed our ancestors several additional perksif you want to call them that. Infant circumcision in Judaism serves as a sign of tribal membership, but circumcision also serves to test the commitment of adult converts. In one Bible story, a chieftain agrees to convert and submit his clan to the procedure as a show of commitment to a peace treaty. (While the men lie incapacitated, the whole town is then slain by the Israelites.)

In Islam, painful male circumcision serves as a rite of passage into manhood, initiation into a powerful club. By contrast, in some Muslim cultures cutting away or burning the female clitoris and labia ritually establishes the submission of women by reducing sexual arousal and agency. An estimated 2 million girls annually are subjected to the procedure, with consequences including hemorrhage, infection, painful urination and death.

Blood sacrifice C In the list of religions worst ideas, this is the only one that appears to be in its final stages. Only some Hindus (during the Festival of Gadhimai) and some Muslims (during Eid al Adha, Feast of the Sacrifice) continue to ritually slaughter sacrificial animals on a mass scale. Hindu sacred texts including the Gita forbid ritual killing, and most Hindus now eschew the practice because it violates ahimsa, or non-harm.  But it persists in some regions as a residual of folk religion.

Hell C Whether we are talking about Christianity, Islam or Buddhism, an afterlife filled with demons, monsters, and eternal torture was the worst suffering the Iron Age minds could conceive and medieval minds could elaborate. Invented, perhaps, as a means to satisfy the human desire for justice, the concept of Hell quickly devolved into a tool for coercing behavior and belief.
Most Buddhists see hell as a metaphor, a journey into the evil inside the self, but the descriptions of torturing monsters  and levels of hell can be quite explicit. Likewise, many Muslims and Christians hasten to assure that it is a real place, full of fire and the anguish of non-believers. Some Christians have gone so far as to insist that the screams of the damned can be heard from the center of the Earth or that observing their anguish from afar will be one of the pleasures of paradise.

Karma C Like hell, the concept of karma offers a selfish incentive for good behavioritll come back at you laterbut it has enormous costs. Chief among these is a tremendous weight of cultural passivity in the face of harm and suffering. Secondarily, the idea of karmasanctifies the broad human practice of blaming the victim. If what goes around comes around, then the disabled child or cancer patient or untouchable poor (or the hungry rabbit or mangy dog) must have done something in either this life or a past one to bring their position on themselves.

Eternal Life C To our weary and unwashed ancestors, the idea of gem encrusted walls, streets of gold, the fountain of youth, or an eternity of angelic chorus (or sex with virgins) may have seemed like sheer bliss. But it doesnt take much analysis to realize how quickly eternal paradise would become hellishan endless repetition of never changing groundhog days (because how could they change if they were perfect).
The real reason that the notion of eternal life is such a bad invention, though, is the degree to which it diminishes and degrades existence on this earthly plane. With eyes lifted heavenward, we cant see the intricate beauty beneath our feet. Devout believers put their spiritual energy into preparing for a world to come rather than cherishing and stewarding the one wild and precious world we have been given.

Male Ownership of Female Fertility C The notion of women as brood mares or children as assets likely didnt originate with religion, but the idea that women were created for this purpose, that if a woman should die of childbearing she was made to do it, most certainly did. Traditional religions variously assert that men have a god-ordained right to give women in marriage, take them in war, exclude them from heaven, and kill them if the origins of their offspring cant be assured. Hence Catholicisms maniacal obsession with the virginity of Mary and female martyrs.
As we approach the limits of our planetary life support system and stare dystopia in the face, defining women as breeders and children as assets becomes ever more costly. We now know that resource scarcity is a conflict trigger and that demand for water and arable land is growing even as both resources decline. And yet, a pope who claims to care about the desperate poor lectures them against contraceptionwhile Muslim leaders ban vasectomies in a drive to outbreed their enemies.

Bibliolatry (aka Book Worship) C Preliterate people handed down their best guesses about gods and goodness by way of oral tradition, and they made objects of stone and wood, idols, to channel their devotion. Their notions of what was good and what was Real and how to live in moral community with each other were free to evolve as culture and technology changed. But the advent of the written word changed that. As our Iron Age ancestors recorded and compiled their ideas into sacred texts, these texts allowed their understanding of gods and goodness to become static. The sacred texts of Judaism, Christianity and Islam forbid idol worship, but over time the texts themselves became idols, and many modern believers practiceessentiallybook worship, also known as bibliolatry.
Because the faith of Islam is perfect, it does not allow for any innovations to the religion, says one young Muslim explaining his faith online. His statement betrays a naïve lack of information about the origins of his own dogmas. But more broadly, it sums up the challenge all religions face moving forward. Imagine if a physicist said, Because our understanding of physics is perfect, it does not allow for any innovations to the field.

Adherents who think their faith is perfect, are not just naïve or ill informed. They are developmentally arrested, and in the case of the worlds major religions, they are anchored to the Iron Age, a time of violence, slavery, desperation and early death.

Ironically, the mindset that our sacred texts are perfect betrays the very quest that drove our ancestors to write those texts. Each of the men who wrote part of the Bible, Quran, or Gita took his received tradition, revised it, and offered his own best articulation of what is good and real. We can honor the quest of our spiritual ancestors, or we can honor their answers, but we cannot do both.
Religious apologists often try to deny, minimize, or explain away the sins of scripture and the evils of religious history. It wasnt really slavery. Thats just the Old Testament. He didnt mean it that way. You have to understand how bad their enemies were. Those people who did harm in the name of God werent real [Christians/Jews/Muslims]. Such platitudes may offer comfort, but denying problems doesnt solve them. Quite the opposite, in fact. Change comes with introspection and insight, a willingness to acknowledge our faults and flaws while still embracing our strengths and potential for growth.

In a world that is teeming with humanity, armed with pipe bombs and machine guns and nuclear weapons and drones, we dont need defenders of religions status quowe need real reformation, as radical as that of the 16th Century and much, much broader. It is only by acknowledging religions worst ideas that we have any hope of embracing the best.

For Salon's 20th anniversary, we're highlighting some of our most popular stories from the archives.

Valerie Tarico



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 Author| Post time 12-2-2019 05:46 PM From the mobile phone | Show all posts
adila39 replied at 12-2-2019 04:46 PM
harap harap kita semua dijauhkan sebagai golongan yg syirik ni. nauzubillah.

saya bukan arif s ...

those polytheists who believe that a whole bunch of gods exist, therefore they can make ententes with their single favourite god in exchange for faith, sensation and miracle .... we don't choose god dila, HE chooses us.in islam, doing good in practice is the evidence of having the right belief in the heart .... yes!!!it is compulsory, all of us including me.

those who turn to Allah in heartfelt repentance, Allah will turn to them in forgiveness, insya Allah but please don't tersasar .... tiada siapa yang lebih tiada siapa yang kurang ....

thanks again dila.best wishes to your family.sampaikan salam saya pada your son.kata abang Kill kirim salam.abang errr.



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Post time 12-2-2019 06:15 PM | Show all posts

14 Brutal Human Sacrifice Techniques Throughout History
T L Perez

Humans have always had a dark side, and this list of brutal human sacrifice methods explores it in graphic detail. Maybe when you think human sacrifice, you picture grand and graphic Aztec or Mayan ceremonies. While civilizations such as these certainly did their share of brutal sacrificing, they were by no means the only ancient civilizations that participated in death rituals.
From ancient China to Ireland and Egypt, civilizations throughout history developed quite a few human sacrifice methods. Mostly, these were religious human sacrifices, though sometimes they were carried out as punishment, or on account of local traditions. Those who sacrificed humans used a number of brutal techniques to do so, including decapitation, strangulation, whipping, burning, cannibalism, and burying victims alive. If anything, this list demonstrates the disturbing creativity of human bloodlust.

Photo: Jacques Arago and N. Maurin/Public Domain

Dismembered: The ChinesePhoto: Xuan Che

One of the most powerful empires in Chinese history, the Shang Dynasty, lasted for more than 500 years, and is the first recorded period in ancient Chinese history. It was also home to brutal techniques focused on ripping apart the bodies of the those sacrificed.
Shang human sacrifice victims were disemboweled, split into halves, beheaded, or chopped to death. The most common ceremonies were pit, foundation, and internment sacrifices. For pit sacrifices, young men were ripped apart and buried without their possessions. Foundation sacrifices involved children and infants, while internment sacrifices focused on young women.
At least seven more brutal human sacrifice techniques were practiced during the Shang Dynasty. Some of the people sacrificed were prisoners of war, others criminals. The Shang also made sacrifices to river gods.
That's intense, but has nothing on this.

Stabbed and Burned Alive: The BritishPhoto: Thomas Pennant/National Library of Wales/Public Domain[size=4.5]
You'd be forgiven for thinking of the infamous desert hippie festival Burning Man when you hear "wicker man" and "burning." When they convene in the desert, attendees of Burning Man build and ignite a large humanoid wicker frame. This practice was taken from the movieWicker Man, which itself drew inspiration from ancient druidic practices of the British isles.
As it turns out, the ancient British left no written historical records of their own, so much of what we know about ancient Britain is based on Roman writings. Julius Caesar, for instance, wrote that Druids built massive wicker men, loaded them with human and animal sacrifices, and lit them on fire. Otherssuggest this is Roman hyperbole designed to make the British out as savages. From a logistical standpoint, how would you cram hundreds of people into something made of wicker and expect (A) the structure not to collapse and (B) the victims not to rip the thing to shreds and escape?
Whether or not human sacrifices actually happened in wicker effigies, evidence exists of human sacrifice in ancient Britain. Bodies found in bogs show evidence of ritualistic murder, and there may even have been cannibalism involved.

Hanged Upside Down and Beaten: The HawaiiansPhoto: Arman Manookian/Public Domain[size=4.5]
Early Tahitian invaders of Hawaii practiced a number of brutal human sacrifice techniques, victimizing descendants of the Polynesianswho initially settled the Hawaiian islands. Those sacrificed were mostly prisoners of war, though some were tribe members who broke laws or committed taboo acts. Sacrifice techniques "ranged from strangulation to bone breaking and removal of intestines." Ritualistic offerings to Ka (god of war) and Lono (god of agriculture) were hanged upside down upside down and beaten to death.

Buried Alive: The Ancient EgyptiansPhoto: tonimihaylova/Pixabay/CC0 1.0[size=4.5]
In the golden age of Ancient Egypt, pharaohs were buried with effigies of their retainers (servants and other followers), but pharaohs of the first dynasty (about 3218 to 2886 CE) were buried with their actual, living retainers, ina practice known as retainer sacrifice.
These servants (and sometimes high-ranking officials) were sacrificed in accordance with religious beliefs. According to these beliefs, servants were meant to continue serving their rulers after they died. Essentially,rulers were so important they needed an entourage in the afterlife.
As the first dynasty ended, retainers managed to convince pharaohs they could better serve if left alive, to continue carrying out the will of the pharaoh on earth.

Burned Infants: The Ancient IsraelitesPhoto: Internet Archive Book Images/flickr/No known copyright restrictions[size=4.5]
The term "Ancient Israelite" is likely to conjure images of Biblical characters like King Solomon, and fables like Jonah and the Wale and David and Goliath. Or maybe call to mind far more brutal stories, such as when Abraham almostsacrificed his son, or this tasty nugget from the Old Testament: "Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys."
Considering this degree of savagery, it shouldn't be surprising that archeological evidence indicates Ancient Israelites ceremoniously burned infants. Such sacrifices were made by those who worshiped Moloch, a bull-god who some suggest symbolized the terrifying power of nature. The sacrifice of a child showed the lengths to which the power-hungry people will go to rid themselves of powerlessness.
Moloch, and the practice of child worship in his honor, stem from a Canaanite tradition. Israelites who worshiped Yahweh did not partake in this brutal practice.

Children Raised for Slaughter: The IncasPhoto: Nicolas Vollmer/[url=https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fileollections_africaines,_latino-am%C3%A9ricaines_et_oc%C3%A9aniennes_(8979825593).jpg]Creative Commons[/url][size=4.5]
Like fellow Mesoamericans the Maya and Aztec, the Inca were no strangers to human sacrifice. Not content with garden variety human sacrifice, the Inca kicked it up a notchwith child sacrifice. They believed a healthy child was the grandest gift a god could receive. Kids were sacrificed for the sake of increased wealth and good fortune.
Only healthy, strong, and attractive children were suitable sacrifices. The most common forms of sacrifice included, "strangulation, a blow to the head, or being buried alive." Some children were raised solely for the purpose of being sacrificed, and were very well cared for (up until the slaughter), to preserve the integrity and value of the sacrifice.

Stabbed in the Head: The MesopotamiansPhoto: Internet Archive Book Images/flickr/No known copyright restrictions[size=4.5]
Like the pharaohs of ancient Egypt, the royals of ancient Mesopotamia were buried with the rest of their household. This included some members of the royal court, such as soldiers, handmaidens, and servants. Human remains found at an archeological site in Ur (now Tell el-Muqayyar, Iraq) attest to more than 2,000 people being sacrificed this way.
In an innocent near-past, experts believed victims of sacrifices in Mesopotamia were poisoned peacefully before burial. Recent discoveries suggest a more brutal practice. According to skeletal remains, victims were stabbed in the head before burial.

Stomachs Ripped Open: The AztecsPhoto: Illustrator Unknown/British Library/[url=https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fileolossal_statue_of_Chaac-Mol,_from_page_38_of_%27A_larger_history_of_the_United_States_of_America_to_the_close_of_President_Jackson%27s_administration_..._Illustrated,_etc%27.jpg]Public Domain[/url][size=4.5]
A lot us go right to the Aztecs when we hear "ritualistic human sacrifice," and with good reason. Human sacrifice waswidespread in Aztec culture, and sacrificial techniques were brutal. Sometimes, victims had their hearts ripped out and offered to the sun god. Other times, stomachs were ripped open, after which victims were pushed from the top of temples.
Offerings to the rain god, Tlaloc, were made in the first month of every year in the Aztec calendar. Tlaloc required crying children, as it was believed their tears would ensure rain. All told, thousands of humans were brutally sacrificed each year by the Aztecs.

Strangled Widows: The FijiansPhoto: Internet Archive Book Images/flickr/No known copyright restrictions[size=4.5]
In ancient Fiji, indigenous tribes had theunfortunate habit of brutally strangling widows shortly after a husband's death. This ritual was carried out because Fijians believed all women should accompany their husbands in the afterlife. After a tribal leader died, all his many wives were also strangled.
These widows were called thotho, or "carpeting of his grave." What a positive view of women. Even more brutal: it was common in most tribes for the widow's brother to strangle her, or at least oversee the strangling.
Australian anthropologist Lorimer Fison supposedly overheard the following, between a sister and a brother, while studying the tribes in question:
[size=4.8]"O Matakimbau," [the wife] cried, "Malani is dead! Take pity upon me and strangle me to-day."
[size=4.8]"All right," her brother replied. "Go now and bathe yourself, and put on your ornaments. You shall be strangled by-and-by."

Mass Decapitation of Slaves and POWs: The DahomeyPhoto: Illustrator Unknown/Public Domain[size=4.5]
Xwetanu was an annual celebration in Dahomey, an old west African kingdom located in present-day Benin. The ceremonyconsisted of many things, including the sacrifice of slaves and prisoners of war to to honor living and dead kings. The preferred method of sacrifice was decapitation.
So many sacrificial victims were beheaded that the ceremony's name translates to "yearly head business." One source stated that nearly 7,000 people were sacrificed under the leadership of one king.

Tossed Into Pits: The MayansPhoto: Illustrator Unknown/Internet Archive/Public Domain[size=4.5]
The Mayans were very religious people known for hosting elaborate ceremonies. One of these ceremonies included the brutal practice of throwing human sacrifices into large limestone pits called cenotes, which typically have water at the bottom.
These huge sinkholes were believed to be portals to the spiritual realm, so people were pushed into them as divine sacrifices. Some claim those sacrificed were volunteers, but the majority of experts agree victims were violently coerced into participating in the ritual.

Honor Suicides: The JapanesePhoto: Rev RB Peery, AM, PhD/Public Domain[size=4.5]
The Japanese practiced a brutal (sometimes forced) self-sacrifice called seppuku. Also known as harakiri, this ritual was one of the many ritualized aspects in the life of samurai in feudal Japan. Samurai committed seppuku for a variety of reasons, be it to restore their honor and to show solidarity with a recently deceased lord.
The ritual had several steps. First, the warrior ate his favorite meal, dressed in his best robes, and would write, then recite, a death poem. Next, he would "plunge a short sword into the left side of his abdomen, draw the blade laterally across to the right, and then turn it upward."
Finally, a witness (usually a family member or close friend) would finish the sacrifice by decapitating the samurai.

Strangled with Handkerchiefs: The ThugsPhoto: Artist Unknown/Public Domain[size=4.5]
Over the course of hundreds of years, an organized gang of robbers and murderers known as Thugs,or Thuggee, brutally sacrificed more than 30,000 peoplethroughout India. Considered a cult of religious assassins by some, the superstitious Thugs found victims by following natural phenomena they believed to be omens, and would kill victims in a variety of ways, including strangling them with handkerchiefs. The sacrifices were meant to honor Kali, the goddess of creation, preservation, and destruction.
Thugs would disguise themselves as travelers, merchants, or soldiers to gain the trust of victims. Despite its murderous activities, the cult had a strict code of ethics. They were prohibited from sacrificing "fakirs, musicians, dancers, sweepers, oil vendors, carpenters, blacksmiths, maimed or leprous persons, Ganges water-carriers, and women." However, they would sometimes murder women if it was necessary to maintain the cult's secrecy.

Chopped Up Albino Children: The Tanzanians
Video: YouTube[size=4.5]
The brutal Tanzanian practice of chopping up albino children is especially disturbing because some still try to practice it in the 21st century. Such sacrificial ceremonies are typically conducted by witch doctors as a black magic ritual.
Since albinos are relatively rare, they are viewed as sacred, and their bodies are thought to be powerful magical ingredients. Therefore, witch doctors use their chopped up parts for potions and spells. Some Tanzanians even eat the flesh of sacrificed albinos to gain strength and good fortune.


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Post time 12-2-2019 07:34 PM From the mobile phone | Show all posts
connection to God

bila kita fikir ajaib nya kejadian manusia, kejadian alam dan segala benda yang wujud dalam dunia ni..bagi saya, ni pon salah satu connection to God

tak perlu tunggu nampak awan yang membentuk rupa sekian2, urat daging yang berupa kalimah sekian2 baru kita nak mengakui kebesaran Nya..bernafas pon kita boleh berhubung dengan tuhan jugak dek kerana kompleks nya kejadian sistem pernafasan manusia itu, kalau kita berfikir secara mendalam, tentu kita TER connect secara sendiri nya dengan yang Maha Mencipta



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Post time 12-2-2019 11:33 PM | Show all posts
Yes, no need to be a fake person...



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Post time 13-2-2019 12:26 PM From the mobile phone | Show all posts
KILL_NANCY replied at 11-2-2019 08:58 AM
terima kasih kak pah.

No problem. Takde sambungan, kalau sambung, post tu tak layak masuk sini dah

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Post time 13-2-2019 10:16 PM From the mobile phone | Show all posts
Edited by chesfa at 13-2-2019 02:21 PM

Sky Burial (Penguburan Langit)

Buddhism serves no God, jadi tak de perhubunga n dengan kerajaan langit. Tapi, diorang percaya, kehidupan yang baik di dunia sekarang, menjamin kelahiran semula yang baik selepas itu. Hubungan baik sesama manusia, not selfish, serve others, tak terikat terlalu bergantung dengan hal-hal duniawi, belongness - konsep self tu creates misery, we tend to grasp at things that are 'ours' (dalam Islam, zuhud kan...dan Allah dah cakap, semua tu hanya pinjaman, dan akan kembali kepada Dia)

Di Tibet, pengikut Buddhism melakukan sebuah ritual suci yang aneh. Mereka menyebutnya sebagai Jhator atau Sky Burial. Mereka percaya bahawa badan orang yang sudah mati tak perlu dipertahankan, diletakkan dalam keranda, atau dikuburkan kerana mengikut kepercayaan reinkarnasi, selepas mati, roh orang yang meninggal tu sudah bergerak ke alam berikutnya

Mayat dari orang yang sudah meninggal akan dibawa ke tanah terbuka dengan ketinggian yang sangat tinggi. Mayat ini akan dijadikan sedekah bagi pemakan bangkai, seperti burung bangkai. Untuk membuat ritual ini dijalankan dengan cepat dan mayat tu habis dengan cepat, mayat tersebut akan dipotong kecil-kecil dan disebarkan untuk dimakan oleh vultures

Mengikut doktrin utama Buddhism, anatta yang membezakan mereka dengan Hinduism, there's no soul, they don't recognise the concept of soul, yang ada MIND. Baik mind anda, baik lah kehidupan anda di rebirth yang lain. Divine karmic rebirth

Jadi, mereka yang disebarkan atas bukit tu, masa tu diorang tak de soul, will reach another realm, this is where and when rebirth takes place, cepat burung tu makan diorang, maka baik lah kehidupan mereka di reinkarnsi lain tu

* Outsiders tak boleh tengok, nanti kacau reinkarnasi tu. Tapi sekarang dah jadi tarikan pelancong, whatttt the betul

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Post time 13-2-2019 10:31 PM From the mobile phone | Show all posts
Sambungan kepada post FLG..tumpang thread ni lol. Maaf TT. Ada kaitan juga sikit2

Jadi, adakah Falun Gong ni sebenarnya sebuah kultus atau ajaran sesat?

Sedikit - sebanyak,YA!

Mereka sangat berpegang teguh dengan pendirian anti-parti, semangat anti-China serta pendirian politik mereka

Perubahan berlaku apabila kerajaan China mula melarang FLG di China. Kita bahagikan kepada dua bahagian, sebelum dan selepas FLG, perubahan itu mempunyai latar belakang sejarah yang sangat panjang untuk diterokai

Bahagian I - Apabila FLG di China

Bahagian pertama, sebelum perubahan itu berlaku, dapat diikuti hingga ke Revolusi Kebudayaan (Culture Revolution) yang berakhir pada tahun 1976

Selepas Revolusi Kebudayaan, seluruh masyarakat Cina di negara itu mengalami kejutan, most of them berpecah kepada dua ideologi yang besar. Satu adalah liberalisasi (untuk sosialisme yang melampau), satu lagi konservatisme (untuk ideologi asing yang melampau, komunisme, sedikit menyerupai fundamentalisme tetapi tidak begitu teruk)

Liberalisasi itu membawa kepada Protes Dataran Tiananmen 1989, dan kerajaan China selepas itu berjaya mengawal proses liberalisasi sehingga berkembang dalam kelajuan yang terkawal up till now. Jadi, proses rebound tu membawa masyarakat kembali semula ke fahaman konservatism, yang sesuai dengan tradisi China

Tetapi, tradisi masyarakat Cina, terutamanya circa 90-an, tidak mudah untuk dipengaruhi oleh anasir asing. Pegangan tradisional mereka terhadap sistem sosial kuat, tak boleh diubah dengan mudah pada masa itu. Apa-apa tradisi, jika ingin diperkenalkan dan diikuti dengan baik, memerlukan kajian mendalam dan panjang, seperti ajaran Qigong (senaman tai chi termasuk dalam fahaman ni)




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Post time 15-2-2019 02:17 AM | Show all posts
this thread is triggering my existential crisis

apepon, thanks mod kill.. very thought-provoking.

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 Author| Post time 15-2-2019 12:12 PM From the mobile phone | Show all posts
dani-rox replied at 15-2-2019 02:17 AM
this thread is triggering my existential crisis

apepon, thanks mod kill.. very thought-provoki ...

thanks dani sudi hadir ke thread ni.


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