What role does a muslim woman take in Islam?

DARSITA

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Darsita

Sephiroth

by KENNKID

- what else can you say?...Its all written by Hindus, anyway  

It is the first time on the Net where a Muslim can pretend to be a Hindu (or Buddhist for that matter) to corrupt others. Remember Kalki Purana which was created to link Muhammad to Kalki?

There you go. Now you come to the real crux of your whole belief - that human beings are divided into castes ~ low, medium and high. Traitors to India? How absurd.  

Humans being are separated by the duties which they formed by their own choices. That's what is written in Hindusm.

No one is born better than another. If one thinks he is better, then he is a egoistic person and in Hindusm, a egoistic person is someone who will NEVER return to God no matter what penance and great sacrifice he makes.

Originally posted by Sephiroth at 2004-9-6 02:07 PM:

It is the first time on the Net where a Muslim can pretend to be a Hindu (or Buddhist for that matter) to cor ...

Really? Did you read this part?

'Oh You Hindu Awake' by Dr. Chatterjee was originally published by Indian Patriots Council, in Dr. Babasaheb Ambedkar Comemoration Issue, April 1993, free from any copyright. This substantially improved edition has been written by Hadwa Dom for Dalitstan Journal, Volume 1, 1999 Issue 1 (August 1999), and like the original, is published free from any copyright.

Who is Hadwa Dom?

http://www.dalitstan.org/books/mohr/mohr1.html

Humans being are separated by the duties which they formed by their own choices. That's what is written in Hindusm.

No one is born better than another. If one thinks he is better, then he is a egoistic person and in Hindusm, a egoistic person is someone who will NEVER return to God no matter what penance and great sacrifice he makes.

If the caste system is so ideal as you theoretically try to project it to us, there wouldn't be any inter-caste rivalry and war in India...If it is truly a system to bring peace and harmony then it would just bring out the positive. The caste system is not practised among Hindus in Malaysia like in India, probably because the majority come from more or less the same caste. As such, the Hindus in Malaysia are free from such segregation (the so-called segregation "of their own choice")
It is the least of problems among Malaysian Hindus.

Its not the same as what I see in the streets of Calcutta or Mumbai.
_______________________________________________________

"The positive side is self-help within castes, the negative side is domination by elite castes (and now also by the creamy layer of lower castes). We need to devise new systems which discourage the negative part, but encourage the positive one."


The above  is from this good article:

http://www.swaminomics.org/articles/20000604_harnesscaste.htm

[ Last edited by KENNKID on 6-9-2004 at 04:10 PM ]

Originally posted by FaithHealer3 at 5-9-2004 06:11 PM:


You have no right over another human being... Wife have a right to visit her daddy anythime she wishes.
If i dislike my wife from doing something, i would just inform her and if she still does what i dislike then i will just accept it, it her prerogative.

i should:tq::tq::hatdown::hatdown:

it's hard to find person like u:nana:

[ Last edited by cekpoin on 6-9-2004 at 04:23 PM ]

Sephiroth

by KENNKID

Really? Did you read this part?

I have read plenty of Muslim propaganda before.

Matter a fact, I still remember the fear on my Muslim teacher's face (she was teaching Sejarah Islam Tingkatan 6 and we just entered the chapter where Islam entered India) when she taught us about the Mogul Empire.

Hmph ... if Muslims here fear Indians for what they have did, they try imagine what it must be for Muslims there in India. They must be living in fear everyday. For that, they must devise a plan to disunify Hindus or at least make Hindus weak (by promoting tolerance to Muslims) which is where this sort of theory comes from.

The Internet had made it easier for ball-less people to talk when they do not have courage to talk face to face.

If the caste system is so ideal as you theoretically try to project it to us, there wouldn't be any inter-caste rivalry and war in India...If it is truly a system to bring peace and harmony then it would just bring out the positive. The caste system is not practised among Hindus in Malaysia like in India, probably because the majority come from more or less the same caste. As such, the Hindus in Malaysia are free from such segregation (the so-called segregation "of their own choice"  

There isn't any wars or rivalry as there is today about 1,000 years ago. Do you know why? Because each caste lived their own ideal lives in small sub-community which supported each other.

Farmers continue to farm and produce food. Merchants continue to gather wealth which is used to promote developments.

Food and Wealth is then given (partically) to the Warrior caste who protected the Kingdom and the people very much like the Knights of the Old days in Europe and Samurais in Japan did. This Warriors also govern the land to ensure laws and order is followed and there is no threats from internal or outside influences and wild animals.

Brahmin community lived within the society and they were like researchers. They were experts in medicine, astrology, knowledge of Gods and Rituals and they served to remind the rest of the public on what to do ritually and to reach God.

Brahmins especially did hold on to their powers and let their egos run wild, as what Gautama Buddha had experience and he came to teach the people about living a proper lives. Other than the rivalry between Buddhism and Hindusm around 2000 years ago, there is hardly any wars or fighting as far as I have studied in History.

And then, 1,000 years ago, Muslims came. They tried to conquer India but failed. Their attempt have failed over and over again because the society which they attack is uneffected.

Unlike most society they attacked, India society is more stable. ONLY the Warrior caste went to war and become some sort of sheild which made no attempt to allow Muslims into India.

Muslims tried to attack mentally by showng Islam but Brahmins who have studied Bhavagad Gita and the Puranas made it hard for them to influence the public in any way.

They tried to attack the core of the society - the farmers and merchants but that failed also. Farmers didn't care and Merchant do not see what use Muslims were.

ONLY available opportunity to attack India were the people outside the community who labelled as Low caste. Muslims spread Islam to them and made this people India's enemies. And using their help, Muslims finally gain access into India and corrupted the society from within.

neostream

lets read what MAHATMA GANDHI have to say about Nabi Muhammad (SAW)...

MAHATMA GANDHI Speaking on the character of Muhammad, (pbuh) said
"I wanted to know the best of one who holds today's undisputed sway over the hearts of millions of mankind.... I became more than convinced that it was not the sword that won a place for Islam in those days in the scheme of life. It was the rigid simplicity, the utter self-effacement of the Prophet, the scrupulous regard for his pledges, his intense devotion to this friends and followers, his intrepidity, his fearlessness, his absolute trust in God and in his own mission. These and not the sword carried everything before them and surmounted every obstacle. When I closed the 2nd volume (of the Prophet's biography), I was sorry there was not more for me to read of the great life."

DARSITA

In The Name Of Thy Lord, Most Merciful
"O ye who believe! Ye are forbidden to inherit women against their will. Nor should ye treat them with harshness, that ye may take away part of the dower [money given by the husband to the wife for the marriage contract] ye have given them, except where they have been guilty of open lewdness; on the contrary live with them on a footing of kindness and equity. If ye take a dislike to them it may be that ye dislike a thing, and God brings about through it a great deal of good. (The Noble Quran, 4:19)"

Men can not harm their wives!

"...Do not retain them (i.e., your wives) to harm them...(The Noble Quran, 2:231)"

"If a wife fears cruelty or desertion on her husband's part, there is no blame on them if they arrange an amicable settlement between themselves; and such settlement is best; even though men's souls are swayed by greed. But if ye do good and practise self-restraint, God is well-acquainted with all that ye do. (The Noble Quran, 4:128)"

This is a hadith from the prophet (Peace be upon him):
Narrated Mu'awiyah al-Qushayri: "I went to the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) and asked him: What do you say (command) about our wives? He replied: Give them food what you have for yourself, and clothe them by which you clothe yourself, and do not beat them, and do not revile them.

YOU CAN ONLY BEAT YOUR WIFE IF SHE DOES THINGS THAT ARE AGAINST ISLAM, AND YOU HAVE TO BEAT THEM LIGHTLY, ALSO IT SHOULD BE A LAST RESORT

"Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all). (The Noble Quran, 4:34)"

Women have equal rights for them and against them

"..and for women are rights equal to the rights against them but men have a degree over them (in the context of divorce) in what is just. (The Noble Quran, 2:228)"

Women have the right for the highest education, unlike what some Muslim fanatics claim

"The Prophet said, 'He who has a maid and teaches her good manners and improves her education and then manumits and marries her, will get a double reward; and any servant who observes Allah's right and his master's right will get a double reward.' (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Manumission of Slaves, Volume 3, Book 46, Number 723)"


"....Are those equal, those who know and those who do not know? It is those who are endued with understanding that receive admonition. (The Noble Quran, 39:9)"

Islam teaches that woman are different but equal but sadly there are a lot  of Muslims men that think they are Superior!

nightlord

Quote:
"Islam teaches that woman are different but equal but sadly there are a lot  of Muslims men that think they are Superior!"

This is the very essence of complaint by every muslim woman I have ever met.

Most all Malaysian Muslim men think they own their women like they own their cars.

Yet strangely, none of these muslim women ever voiced their distress publicly - unless forced to by an abusive husband.

What gives? Fear or loyalty?

Nightlord

kid

Originally posted by nightlord at 8-9-2004 12:59 AM:
Quote:
"Islam teaches that woman are different but equal but sadly there are a lot  of Muslims men that think they are Superior!"

This is the very essence of complaint b ...

I always believe that all men has their own self esteem, that a natural things, man in most aspect indeed stronger than woman, although not always true, all men think that they are the leader of their woman (family) regardless they are Muslim or not, which in fact is true in real life. Man always the leader in the family.
But superior in this matter doesn't mean men treat women as lower esteem object as what you had in your mind.

My mom once said that she was so lucky to have my father who understand and respect her as a woman and let her free to decide our internal home decision, and my father do not intervere with her decision.

One more thing, my family let my sister pursue higher education, and in fact higher than me although I'm a man and older than her, because our family dont believe that a man is superior than woman in this matter.

Hmm we are a happy Muslim family... :cak:

Sephiroth

by nightlord

This is the very essence of complaint by every muslim woman I have ever met.

Most all Malaysian Muslim men think they own their women like they own their cars.

Yet strangely, none of these muslim women ever voiced their distress publicly - unless forced to by an abusive husband.

What gives? Fear or loyalty?

Fear ... All women fears that they will be labelled as out of Islam thus cannot get a husband.

Furthermore, Muslim women usually do not study their own religion deeply because they were told that men are leaders of the family thus they expect men to know more about Islam than they do. I have went several forums where women asked why men do not know how to lead according to Islam and I remember the same threads here in Personal problems if not mistaken.

Take Valentine's Day and Mother's Day celebration last time. In both occassions, it is men who issues fatwa stating that Muslims shouldn't follow such tradition because it is not part of Malay culture (as if they are Malays) and not part of Islam. But when comes to Father's Day, no one made any fatwas or claims and such. WHY? Because women and men's pets. Anything men say, Muslim women will bow to them and agree.

I'm surprise the One Husband One Wife movement didn't come to a halt because some fatwa by men also. Women in Malaysia finally showing some backbones, which is a good thing. Because Muslim men are useless. You better off staying single rather than marry them, only to be left later with a child when he go look for another wife.

Originally posted by Sephiroth at 2004-9-8 08:32 AM:
by nightlord

This is the very essence of complaint by every muslim woman I have ever met.

Most all Malaysian Muslim men think they own their women like they own their cars.

Yet strange ...

Absolute rubbish!

nightlord

Great reply!



Nighlord:cak::cak::cak:

neostream

What are some of the rights given to women in Islam?

The Qur抋n also speaks of similarity in terms of creation. God tells us that He created a single soul and from it its mate, then He made countless men and women from those two (see Qur抋n 4:1). The Qur抋n does not contain the belief that the man alone is created in the image of God.

Because of this fundamental similarity between men and women, the Qur抋n declares that women have rights similar to the rights against them according to what is equitable (see Qur抋n 2:228).

In a time when women were devalued and female infants were buried alive, the Qur抋n raised the value of women and prohibited female infanticide. Due to the Qur抋n, this practice was abolished, but in recent times advances in the science of genetic selection has encouraged some unbelievers to practice a modern form of female infanticide.

The Qur抋n also abolished the practice whereby inheritance went to only the oldest male heir. Instead, a woman can inherit from her father, her husband, and her childless brother (see Qur抋n 4:7, 32, 176).

In Islam when a woman gets married she does not surrender her maiden name, but maintains her distinct identity. Some Muslim women have adopted the surnames of their husbands, but this is due to cultural influence, not Islam.

In a Muslim marriage the groom gives a dowry to the bride, not to her father. This becomes her private property to keep or spend, and is not subject to the dictates of her male relatives. Any money she earns or receives is similarly her very own.

Under Islamic Law a woman cannot be married without her consent. She has final approval on a marriage partner and she can repudiate a marriage arranged without her consent. She also has the right to initiate a separation from marriage if her rights under marriage are not being granted.

Widows have the right to remarry, and they are in fact encouraged to do so.

The Qur抋n places on men the responsibility of protecting and maintaining their female relatives. This relieves women of the need to earn their own living. It also means that a man must provide for his wife even if she has money of her own. She is not obligated to spend her money in the maintenance of her family. Incidentally, a woman is also not required to cook for her family, although she may do so out of love and compassion. The example of our noble prophet, on whom be peace, is that although he was such a great leader, he assisted in the housecleaning and mended his own clothes.

In return for the added responsibility, the Qur抋n gives men the degree of leadership (see Qur抋n 2:228; 4:34). This does not mean that men should dominate women, but rather that they should deal with them in kindness, mercy, and love (see Qur抋n 4:19; 30:21).

neostream

What does Islam say about domestic violence?

The prophet announced that men who beat their wives are not good men. The prophet also said,

Do not beat the female servants of Allah.

Allah knows that life is not always a bowl of cherries. And so He stipulates that a man must be kind to his wife even if he happens to dislike her (Qur抋n 4:19). Allah offers a good reason as to why men should not dislike their wives. Allah says that He has placed much good in women (Qur抋n 4:19).

In this regard the prophet Muhammad, on whom be peace, said that no believing man should hold a grudge against a believing woman. So what is a husband to do if he dislikes some things about his wife? This is bound to occur, since no human being is perfect. The prophet instructed that men should look for the agreeable traits in their wives rather than focus on their faults. (See Saheeh Muslim, chapter on advice relating to women).

The prophet also advised men that if they wish to benefit from marriage they should accept their wives as they are rather than try to straighten them out and thus end up in divorce.

In the following verse of the Qur抋n, Allah warns men that if they retain their wives in marriage it should not be to take advantage of them. The verse reads:

Retain them in kindness or release them in kindness. But do not retain them to their hurt so that you transgress (the limits). If anyone does that he wrongs his own soul. Do not take God抯 instructions as a jest (Qur抋n 2:231).

Once the prophet, on whom be peace, was asked what are the obligations of husbands toward their wives. He replied:

Feed her when you eat, and provide her clothing when you provide yourself. Neither hit her on the face nor use impolite language when addressing her (See Mishkat, chapter on the maintenance of women).

The prophet equated perfect belief with good treatment to one抯 wife when he said:

The most perfect believer is one who is the best in courtesy and amiable manners, and the best among you people is one who is most kind and courteous to his wives (see Tirmidhi, chapter on the obligations of a man to his wife).

Finally, the prophet, the best example of conduct said:

The best among you is the one who treats his family best.

Some of the last words of the prophet delivered during the farewell pilgrimage enjoins that men should hold themselves accountable before Allah concerning the question of how they treat their wives. Therefore his advice to all men, is as follows:

You must treat them with all kindness.

nightlord

Quite a lengthy thesis about how women SHOULD be treated.

SAD to say,not many followed.

Some simple examples.Though women are encouraged to further themselves in Islam seldom is it practiced.

AFGANISTAN - during the rule of TALIBAN most women were encourage not to pursue above primary education. Most rural women have NO EDUCATION.

PAKISTAN - most rural girls were married off at ages between 13 to 15 and onwards. Most of them stay ignorant of their rights.

Muslim AFRICA - the same. Women were seen as secondary to men. Education is seen as unimportant to women since they are more important as wifes,2nd 3rd wifes, and baby production machines.

Though there are AS many MUSLIM countries where women have grown into educated productive workforce, a lot are forced to leave work to take care of babies.

The role of women in Islam by experience is,

=Always below the status of a MAN
=Psycologicaly and physically restricted by laws created by QURAN and Man
=A lot times seen as less then MAN thus cornered in roles as wifes,bedwarmers,sex objects( incest happens in families where females are dehumanised to mere roles).
=Her marital status can be terminated any time by a MAN (if you check Malaysian divorce among muslim the rate is in 50% range).

And if any of you muslim guys do not agree that most times a MUSLIM WOMAN knows and understand the above yet say nothing is because they dont have a choice.

They cannot leave the religion or change it. They cannot marry a non-muslim without converting her spouse - if the other way = the only way out is through the apostate courts.

There is a current trend in Malaysia now where Muslim women are looking for husbands among the non-muslims. Why? Because non-muslim men (urban types) are more liberal at home and gives the woman more say in the marriage.

How do I know this, because muslim women talk to my girl friends and they talk to me. Why you muslim men dont know this? It is because of all the reasons above and for a muslim woman to ask a muslim man to change the rules is like trying to move a mountain with your bare hands.



Nightlord

[ Last edited by nightlord on 9-9-2004 at 01:50 AM ]

neostream

SAD to say,not many followed

Like you said, not followed.

so dont blame it on Islam.

neostream

How do I know this, because muslim women talk to my girl friends and they talk to me

wow , great proof

wira_melayu

Originally posted by neostream at 9-9-2004 02:40 AM:


Like you said, not followed.

so dont blame it on Islam.

Well said neostream,nightlord can't even understand what he writes,he blindedly assumes things which as a results of a total course of hysteria.

Just look at his post

Sephiroth

by neostream

Like you said, not followed.

so dont blame it on Islam.

What is the use of Islam IF Muslims do not follow it?

What is the use of the sign on the road if the drivers do not follow it?

Originally posted by nightlord at 2004-9-9 01:48 AM:
There is a current trend in Malaysia now where Muslim women are looking for husbands among the non-muslims. Why? Because non-muslim men (urban types) are more liberal at home and gives the woman more say in the marriage.

How do I know this, because muslim women talk to my girl friends and they talk to me. Why you muslim men dont know this? It is because of all the reasons above and for a muslim woman to ask a muslim man to change the rules is like trying to move a mountain with your bare hands.

I can say the same thing too. Many non-Muslim girls also say that Muslim men make very good husbands because they are very caring. Why? Because Muslim men (urban ones) are more liberal at home and gives the woman more say in their marriage.

Nightlord is generalising. A deduction and assumption based on his narrow outlook towards life.