Bible prophecy of the Arab world

greekgod

Originally posted by Debmey at 16-2-2005 03:24 PM:



So why are muslims building nuclear weapons? Is it islamic according top your logic?

yes!!!

surely.. how are we going to defend ourself, if we dont have weapon?
using stone?? while the enemy already has techno-weapon, stone will not save your ass!

Originally posted by Debmey at 16-2-2005 09:24 PM:



So why are muslims building nuclear weapons? Is it islamic according top your logic?

huh, what kind of logic debmey used here! Have you lose your sense now Deb?
What will you do if you're a leader, with a lot of money, and all the country around you have nuclear weapons and mass dectruction weapons, etc, etc, etc, and all these country attacking you constantly, will you 'peluk tubuh' je wait and see...mana la tau diaorg x serang. What nonsense!

From what you've say, it really shows that u do believe that somehow Islamic system will do make people better, that's why u send sentence like that. Dont shy shy la Deb nak ngaku!

Hehehe...newbie tompang lalu.
(My kucing gelak gila2 baca statement Deb)

greekgod

Originally posted by cleen_script at 16-2-2005 03:35 PM:


huh, what kind of logic debmey used here! Have you lose your sense now Deb?
What will you do if you're a leader, with a lot of money, and all the country around you have nuclear weapons and ma ...

betul tu cleen_script!

ntah haper2 si debmey tu, tak kukuh langsung reasoning!

Debmey

Originally posted by greekgod at 2005-2-16 09:31 PM:


yes!!!

surely.. how are we going to defend ourself, if we dont have weapon?
using stone?? while the enemy already has techno-weapon, stone will not save your ass!

So how can you say it is ungodly to make atomic weapons?

greekgod

Originally posted by Debmey at 16-2-2005 04:16 PM:



So how can you say it is ungodly to make atomic weapons?

because it creates (intentionally for destruction)...
but how do you justify self-protection?

if weapon (for protection, be it anything) is not necessary... then, can you tell any single country that do not have any arm forces on this world?

Debmey

So why do you people question the making of atomic weapons in the first place? Thats teh question yu need to answer here.

The Bible is true. Muslims are the troublemakers of this world. They don't solve problems, they create problems every where they go.

Originally posted by greekgod at 16-2-2005 06:51:

why people who hold to jesus build atomic bombs?
yet, everyday, the come out with new idea how to destroy people..

america for example, how many mass of destruction weapons has they created...

how many people has they killed?

how many people has they tortured?

well... one true thing about them is: they hold to christianity, they believe in jesus.. but that doesnt make any justification that they can kill somebody who is not christian...

endeviouring the cases of human-bombing... you have to know the situation in that place..

--------------->  (dont point your finger to moslem, when something explodes..
one good example of this, was the atlanta city hall bombing...
at first, the authority pin-point their finger to moslem, but later
god showed that a christian himself bombarded that place...) <-------------

therefore, my conclusion is: not every bad thing comes from moslem... think, that you might yourself make bad thing!!

Whoa, first of all, which so called god of yours said that it was a Christian who blew that place up?  And second, just because it takes place in the Western hemisphere, it doesn't mean that Christians are the one that blow things up.  Just because you see a crazy white guy blowing up buildings, you assume that he is a Christian?  Just so you know, I work with tons of whites and blacks along with other races in my workplace, and out of all of them, maybe 7 or 8 of us follow the Lord with our hearts.  Others said they don't believe in God, therefore putting them in the category of atheists.  So if one of my atheist co-workers blow up something tomorrow in Canada or the USA, you are going to say, "well a Christian did that"???  Wow.....great brains you guys got there.  

We know for a fact that 29 Muslims were in those airplanes on 9/11. We know that they were given instructions by the devil, Bin Laden, to hit specific targets.  They succeeded.  And when the USA and its allies started to point fingers at the Muslim world, everyone of the so called jihadist celebrated and even took responsibility for what they did.  Oh boy, and were the Muslims ever so happy to see the US suffer.  

We all know, that ISLAM is never a religion of peace.  Had it been peaceful, it wouldn't have instructed you to kill the Jews, Christians or others.  Instead of your so called holy book saying to kill others or become jihads, it should have said, pray for your enemies, and if they slap you on the left cheek let them do the same to the right cheek.  Have ISLAM ever done that? NEVER!

ISLAM is all about war.  Bin "QUEER" Laden purposely started this war, because he basicly opened the pandora's box, and wanted the whole world to be involved in this war.  The Bible already prophecies about use of weapons of mass destruction in the last days.  Iran, Syria and other Muslim countries all have WMD's.  I wouldn't be surprised that one day, Malaysia will also gain access to those weapons and blow up anyone they don't like.  The US does have nuclear weapons.  If they ever attacked Iran or these Muslim countries, the Middle East will wake up and say that a Christian country attacked them.  US have lots of devil worshippers, and lots of them run the Pentagon/CIA and the FBI.  Just because it is the US, it doesn't mean that they are a Christian country anymore.  They have left the moral/laws of God Almighty and turned away from Jesus.  In doing so, they will be punished.

So please don't give me this sweet talk about how ISLAM is a peaceful religion and all. It never has been and it will never be.  

Only way peace will ever abide on this earth is through Jesus Christ.  Not Muhamad, or the Sikh, Hindu, Buddhist and other dead gods.

There WILL be a World War III. Its already guaranteed to take place.  But before mankind annihilate each other in the Tribulation, Jesus will step in and stop this madness.

Billions will be killed.  You could be one of them.

Oreng

mY QUESTION NEVER ANSWERED BY CHRISTIANS HERE...From your perspective, what is the religion of Ishmael, Abraham and Hagar at that time ?

Oreng

Whose words is this ? :

"Behold, you are with child, and you shall bear a son, you shall
call his name Ishmael, because the Lord has heard your
affliction. He shall be a wild man; his hand shall be against
every man and every man's hand against him and he shall live
in hostility towards all his brethren" (Gen.l6:l 1-12).


Looks like the sentence referring specifically to Ishmael alone, and not his descendants.

If I am not mistaken, certain christians here deny that Ismael is the father of all Arabs...

Debmey

If you read the Bible carefully. Prophecies such as these often refer not just to the specific persons but to their descendents or the spirit of that person.

You are correct, there is no evidence to suggest that Arabs are the descendents Ishmael. The geneology provided by Muslims from Ishmael to Mohd is clearly a fabrication that has lots of age gaps.

In fact, the Bible shows that Arabs existed even before Ishmael did. But what Ishmael does have is the rebellious and carnal spirit of a religion that wants to persecute the true church that is birthed from the spirit and not from the flesh. which is expoused by Muslims today. Thats why we are talking about Muslims and not Arabs not being able to get along with others. Read carefully again.

Read Galatians 4:21-30
21Tell me, you who want to be under the law, are you not aware of what the law says? 22For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the slave woman and the other by the free woman. 23His son by the slave woman was born in the ordinary way; but his son by the free woman was born as the result of a promise.

   24These things may be taken figuratively, for the women represent two covenants. One covenant is from Mount Sinai and bears children who are to be slaves: This is Hagar. 25Now Hagar stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present city of Jerusalem, because she is in slavery with her children. 26But the Jerusalem that is above is free, and she is our mother. 27For it is written: 揃e glad, O barren woman,
      who bears no children; break forth and cry aloud,
      you who have no labor pains; because more are the children of the desolate woman
      than of her who has a husband.擺b]

   28Now you, brothers, like Isaac, are children of promise. 29At that time the son born in the ordinary way persecuted the son born by the power of the Spirit. It is the same now. 30But what does the Scripture say? 揋et rid of the slave woman and her son, for the slave woman's son will never share in the inheritance with the free woman's son.擺c] 31Therefore, brothers, we are not children of the slave woman, but of the free woman.


Understand that God already knew what was gonna happen in this world and let it be known to his people. Muslims read and repent.

[ Last edited by Debmey on 17-2-2005 at 10:17 AM ]

Originally posted by Oreng at 16-2-2005 19:45:
mY QUESTION NEVER ANSWERED BY CHRISTIANS HERE...From your perspective, what is the religion of Ishmael, Abraham and Hagar at that time ?

Abraham did not have a religion to follow in his times.  He only followed "the Lord God" who had not yet revealed himself to mankind at this point in time.  

Hagar on the other hand was an Egyptian who was the handmaid(or helper/servant) of Sarah, Abraham's wife.  

Where did Hagar come from and who was she?  She was the daughter of the Pharaoh.  She lived in the palaces of the Pharaoh in Egypt.  

Read Genesis 12.  When the famine hit the land/desert area, Abraham and Sarah moved south to Egypt where the famine had not hit.  

When they were in Egypt, Abraham told Sarah to lie to the people there that she was his sister, because she was so beautiful, and if she had said that she was Abraham's wife, they would've killed him and kept Sarah.  So this lie worked in Abraham's favour, and he was given lots of things by Pharaoh.  When God saw that Sarah was mixing with the wrong crowd, He plagued the land of Egypt, because of what Abraham did.  Egypt suffered greatly for that lie.

So in doing this, Pharaoh gave all he had to Abraham and told him to get out of his sight and to leave him alone.  In that process, Hagar was also a part of that deal.  So automatically, she became a servant/handmaid to Abraham's wife Sarah.  You see in this point of time, Abraham served his "LORD GOD", while Hagar the Egyptian, had just left her beliefs of her false idols and followed Abraham.  Abraham's family and all those that followed him were commanded to worship the "LORD GOD".  What did Hagar worship?  I don't know, but I do know that she did not serve the God of Abraham.

At their times, Abraham and his family/followers were only known as the followers of the LORD GOD.  They addressed God as "the Lord GOD of Heaven".  But then many years later, Abraham's grandson Jacob, was born by Isaac.  The LORD GOD then changed Jacob's name to Israel.  And Israel had 12 sons, being the 12 Tribes of Israel.  They all worshipped "the GOD of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob".

If you read book of Exodus, the 3rd chapter you will find your answer.  The LORD GOD revealed who He was to Moses in Mount Horeb.  

When the LORD GOD told Moses to go and speak to the Pharaoh to let His people go, Moses asked GOD, "and Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you, and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them?

And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you." Still at this point, these people had no religion, only a relationship with the LORD GOD.  God called Israel, children of Israel.  And Israel (Jacob) served the LORD GOD.

Where were Hagar/Ishmael at this point in time? NO CLUE!  Only to show up some 600+ years after Jesus Christ, and then creating a religion called Islam.

Any other question, do your research, and you might get the answer.

GOD BLESS YOU.

Oreng

Ah ah ah, Debmey say Ishmael is not the father of all Arabs. Meaning what Truth and Repent says about this particular prophecy is doubtful. Please lets 3 of you clarify among yourself about this prophecy.

Debmey

Didn't I say that Ishmael represents the spirit of rebellion in Muslims and not Arabs?

Yes, the prophecy does not apply to only Arabs, its applies to all muslims. Just as Isaac in Galatians 4 did not represent Jews, Ishmael also does not represent Arabs.

Oreng

Also, do 3 of you mean that between the period of Ishmael and Prophet Muhammad SAW, the world is all peaceful ? If I am not mistaken, christians were already fighting other people on earth..

Debmey

All people groups fight. But not as a much as Muslims, thats why they are singled out by God.

If you study history, the growth of Christianity for teh first 300 years was solely built on martyrdom of peacful Christians, no violence required on the part of Christians. Contrast this to Islam which was spread by the sword in its first 300 years.

Originally posted by Oreng at 16-2-2005 22:24:
Also, do 3 of you mean that between the period of Ishmael and Prophet Muhammad SAW, the world is all peaceful ? If I am not mistaken, christians were already fighting other people on earth..

Originally posted by Oreng at 16-2-2005 22:24:
Also, do 3 of you mean that between the period of Ishmael and Prophet Muhammad SAW, the world is all peaceful ? If I am not mistaken, christians were already fighting other people on earth..

First of all Christianity was not even existent in the time of Ishmael....the people then only served the LORD GOD.  And no, the world was never peaceful.  Between the time of Ishmael to prior to the birth of Jesus Christ, there were always wars.  Edom, Assyria, Babylon, all these countries purportedly descendants of Ishmael were on the hunt after the Israelis for over 1800 yrs.....in their attempt to destroy Israel, they always failed....

After Jesus came, died and rose again, the attempt by the descendants of Ishmael has begun again.  Only this time, Ishmael and his descendants, which have evoluted to the new Iran, Iraq, Syria, Turkey and Egypt are back with nuclear weapons in an attempt to wipe out the Jews and the Israelis.......Nice try...

GOD will never allow that to happen...those that raise their hands against the Jews/Israel will be destroyed.....read the Bible and see what GOD did to Israels enemies.......

Originally posted by Oreng at 16-2-2005 22:24:
Also, do 3 of you mean that between the period of Ishmael and Prophet Muhammad SAW, the world is all peaceful ? If I am not mistaken, christians were already fighting other people on earth..

Originally posted by Oreng at 16-2-2005 22:24:
Also, do 3 of you mean that between the period of Ishmael and Prophet Muhammad SAW, the world is all peaceful ? If I am not mistaken, christians were already fighting other people on earth..

First of all Christianity was not even existent in the time of Ishmael....the people then only served the LORD GOD.  And no, the world was never peaceful.  Between the time of Ishmael to prior to the birth of Jesus Christ, there were always wars.  Edom, Assyria, Babylon, all these countries purportedly descendants of Ishmael were on the hunt after the Israelis for over 1800 yrs.....in their attempt to destroy Israel, they always failed....

After Jesus came, died and rose again, the attempt by the descendants of Ishmael has begun again.  Only this time, Ishmael and his descendants, which have evoluted to the new Iran, Iraq, Syria, Turkey and Egypt are back with nuclear weapons in an attempt to wipe out the Jews and the Israelis.......Nice try...

GOD will never allow that to happen...those that raise their hands against the Jews/Israel will be destroyed.....read the Bible and see what GOD did to Israels enemies.......

Originally posted by Oreng at 16-2-2005 22:24:
Also, do 3 of you mean that between the period of Ishmael and Prophet Muhammad SAW, the world is all peaceful ? If I am not mistaken, christians were already fighting other people on earth..

Originally posted by Oreng at 16-2-2005 22:24:
Also, do 3 of you mean that between the period of Ishmael and Prophet Muhammad SAW, the world is all peaceful ? If I am not mistaken, christians were already fighting other people on earth..

First of all Christianity was not even existent in the time of Ishmael....the people then only served the LORD GOD.  And no, the world was never peaceful.  Between the time of Ishmael to prior to the birth of Jesus Christ, there were always wars.  Edom, Assyria, Babylon, all these countries purportedly descendants of Ishmael were on the hunt after the Israelis for over 1800 yrs.....in their attempt to destroy Israel, they always failed....

After Jesus came, died and rose again, the attempt by the descendants of Ishmael has begun again.  Only this time, Ishmael and his descendants, which have evoluted to the new Iran, Iraq, Syria, Turkey and Egypt are back with nuclear weapons in an attempt to wipe out the Jews and the Israelis.......Nice try...

GOD will never allow that to happen...those that raise their hands against the Jews/Israel will be destroyed.....read the Bible and see what GOD did to Israels enemies.......

KaiserPheonix

Oh? Matryrdom of *peaceful* Christian... Perhaps you could tell me the story of Joan of Arc... condemned a heresy by her oen people, (later canonized and martyred as saint).

===========

Tell me about the Spanish conqueastadoras, who burned most of the Mayan hertiage and their customs, and kill most of the people in the name of your Lord? Then made the stupid condemnation of chocolate as the "snare of devil". You called that peaceful?

==========

How about the conquest of Christian gospel in India? They tried to best the Hindus, claiming "a saviour" from the "unicivilised customs and gods"? "Beban Orang Putih?

==========

And explain of the Christians' slaying on the name of the Lord during the Witchhunt (Massachusets, 1700)? Although not proven guilty, but they insist control on those poor people through "mouth-opening" ritual? Try to study about Matthew Hopkins-"Witch-Finder General"

========

Or perhaps you would like to hear about the Romans attacking the Holy Land after the Temple period, killing many Jews in the process?

========

You call that peaceful?

greekgod

Originally posted by Repent at 17-2-2005 02:31 AM:



Whoa, first of all, which so called god of yours said that it was a Christian who blew that place up?  And second, just because it takes place in the Western hemisphere, it doesn't mean that  ...

then, the same thing applies... not because some crazy muslim bombarded something, doesnt mean all moslem should take the responsibility to be blame right?

self-protection gitu!