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Sunni's oldest Koran copy?

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Author: Adm_Cheng_Ho       Show all posts   Read mode

Post time 8-12-2004 06:48 PM | Show all posts
Originally posted by snipersnake at  03:43 PM:


buddy..i went there..exmuslims=non believers=christians
furthermore 100% of your arguments are based one website..get out more..meet real people..get a life..



even if we going meet up , they will be  blurrr.

i ask them once:

truth8:  why sabbath was swicted to friday?

muslims : muhammad last messenger and allah say so.

truth8: how come? all prophets b4 muhammad observed sabbath, this show muhammad could not be real prophet. infact we and peoples of the book rejected him.

muslims:  we should not argue.

truth.8: is that ur answer? then i am sorry, i believed in sabbath not friday. God  did not made mistake by changing sabbaht to friday. it was muhammad and that "things' in cave of hira made friday as holy.

sorry, i do not buy ur story.
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KENNKID This user has been deleted
Post time 8-12-2004 09:08 PM | Show all posts
Originally posted by Truth.8 at 2004-12-8 06:48 PM:



even if we going meet up , they will be  blurrr.

i ask them once:

truth8:  why sabbath was swicted to friday?

muslims : muhammad last messenger and allah say so.

truth8: how come? ...


You keep talking about Sabbath, sabbath, sabbath. You are a christian (the so-called 'Twoness' version). When is the Christian sabbath day? Do christians observe sabbath?

Read the discussion in the forum linked below (No Muslims involved, only between you christians).


[23:30] <Agapewave> Yet there is no word in scripture that this is truth
[23:30] <Agapewave> Or EVEN BEING AWARE OF IT
[23:30] <Agapewave> Noah did not keep the Sabbath
[23:31] <Agapewave> Enoch did not keep the Sabbath
[23:31] <Agapewave> God himself was not resting on this day
[23:31] <Agapewave> Neither was Abraham
[23:31] <Agapewave> This day was clearly to be observed by the
Israelites only
[23:32] <Agapewave> 6) Jesus Christ did not come to OBEY the law: He
came to FULFILL the prophecies contained in the Law and the Prophets

http://www.availablelight.org/bi ... jewish_sabbath.html

[ Last edited by KENNKID on 8-12-2004 at 09:09 PM ]
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me This user has been deleted
Post time 9-12-2004 08:43 AM | Show all posts
in islam god did not rest at all...so why you muslim not go to work on sunday...??
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Post time 9-12-2004 10:14 AM | Show all posts
because in malaysia we follow the western way (if u r from malaysia u know la) but several states like kedah, kelanta and tereengganu have thier weekly holidays on friday..sunday, work like usual..but in the saudi arabia..everyday is a working day..when its time to perform prayer, there will stop for a while and perform it..why? because in islam we are ruged to work hard and earn an honest living..
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Post time 9-12-2004 10:20 AM | Show all posts
because in islam we are ruged to work hard and earn an honest living..



work hard?? could hardly see it...

i can see in colleges...the muslims are the most students that so lazy going to classes...the best scenario is...they will come to class, but late...when given assigments...they will wait till the last day, then copy the assigments from the chinese...at work...they will come to work 15 to 30 minutes after working hours starts...
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Post time 9-12-2004 10:35 AM | Show all posts
Originally posted by me at 9-12-2004 08:43 AM:
in islam god did not rest at all...so why you muslim not go to work on sunday...??


Very true... In Islam, God is free from such weakness of His creation. He is not qualified by the laws of His creation. He is the Sustainer of everything. There is nothing like Him, He alone controls all events, causes, and effects, and no power exists independently of His power. He need not rest, God is not human which consist of flesh and bone and can be tired.

I just try to think if God take rest for one day, who is gonna sustain all the things in the universe while He is absent? Can you let me know?
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Post time 9-12-2004 10:36 AM | Show all posts
Originally posted by Truth.8 at 8-12-2004 12:48 AM:



even if we going meet up , they will be  blurrr.

i ask them once:

truth8:  why sabbath was swicted to friday?

muslims : muhammad last messenger and allah say so.

truth8: how come? ...


itks okay..i am not selling the story.. ..its the truth.. btw the dialogue above is totally weak..

its true the people before muhammad had their sabbath on saturday..y did god chaged it on friday?

because muhammad was not only bringing tauhid (the old religion before islam for you laymen) he was also the teacher of islam, the comprehensive and perfected version of tauhid. so, as a result, the tradition of the sabbath is replaced with friday. furthermore, ALLAH has given to us the status as the most special people since or prophet is muhammad, so in accordance with that, we will have a different set of norms and traditions.aslo promised that we are the first people (under muhammad) that will enter paradise.:pray:
hope that clarifies.:lebai:
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me This user has been deleted
Post time 9-12-2004 11:08 AM | Show all posts
Originally posted by kid at 9-12-2004 10:35 AM:


Very true... In Islam, God is free from such weakness of His creation. He is not qualified by the laws of His creation. He is the Sustainer of everything. There is nothing like Him, He alone co ...


he finished his work in 6 days, what else there is to do on the seventh day...

resting does mean he forgot the world the universe...
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Post time 9-12-2004 12:22 PM | Show all posts
Originally posted by snipersnake at  10:36 AM:
itks okay..i am not selling the story..  ..its the truth.. btw the dialogue above is totally weak..

its true the people before muhammad had their sabbath on saturday..y did god chaged it on friday?

because muhammad was not only bringing tauhid (the old religion before islam for you laymen) he was also the teacher of islam, the comprehensive and perfected version of tauhid. so, as a result, the tradition of the sabbath is replaced with friday. furthermore, ALLAH has given to us the status as the most special people since or prophet is muhammad, so in accordance with that, we will have a different set of norms and traditions.aslo promised that we are the first people (under muhammad) that will enter paradise.
hope that clarifies.
...


u c muslims always failed if they want true debate but can they handle or get anger and wanted report 2  authority? this what muslims do if they failed in debate.

how can ur muhammad be seal of all prophets when he came broke those 10 commandments written by God of Abraham right to Jesus on Sabbath?

the one who appeared in cave of hira certainly not angel and allah certainly not god of Abraham because switching Sabbath to Friday.

When Jews facing Jerusalem and muhammad said changed to Baitumal. How can this men called a prophet? he brought anger to Jews and no respect for our ancients prophets.

My conclusion : Muhammad is not true prophet but the false as Bible stated on false prophet.
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Post time 9-12-2004 06:34 PM | Show all posts
Originally posted by me at 9-12-2004 11:08 AM:

he finished his work in 6 days, what else there is to do on the seventh day...

resting does mean he forgot the world the universe...


I realize your confusion about what should God do after finished his work in 6 days?

We human cannot live, for instance, without daily rest; both the human body and the human mind are constructed to need it. This fact is not in itself surprising.

But God, is the sustainer of everything in the entire universe in every moment, if you imagine the earth compared to the whole universe is like a small sand in the middle of the desert. Human will never be able to imagine how God sustain such tasks and complexity. Let alone thinking that God is resting like us.

What you need to do is to free your mind from similarising God with human...
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me This user has been deleted
Post time 10-12-2004 08:35 AM | Show all posts
resting does mean he forgot the world the universe...
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Post time 10-12-2004 08:53 AM | Show all posts
Originally posted by me at 8-12-2004 04:20 PM:



work hard?? could hardly see it...

i can see in colleges...the muslims are the most students that so lazy going to classes...the best scenario is...they will come to class, but late...when ...


this is a racist statement..no connection what so ever with the topic...every religion has a bad follower..dont blame the religion..
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Post time 10-12-2004 08:55 AM | Show all posts
Originally posted by me at 8-12-2004 05:08 PM:


he finished his work in 6 days, what else there is to do on the seventh day...

resting does mean he forgot the world the universe...



god is allmighty..he can do it faster in a blink of an eye..
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me This user has been deleted
Post time 10-12-2004 09:00 AM | Show all posts
Originally posted by snipersnake at 10-12-2004 08:55 AM:



god is allmighty..he can do it faster in a blink of an eye..


oh...but in the koran god needed 6 periods to finish the job...which could mean millions of years...you can ask kyas for this...
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Post time 10-12-2004 09:10 AM | Show all posts
Originally posted by Truth.8 at 8-12-2004 06:22 PM:


u c muslims always failed if they want true debate but can they handle or get anger and wanted report 2  authority? this what muslims do if they failed in debate.

how can ur muhammad be seal ...


okay since FINALLY we are having some educational conversation here.

1. I stated no anger in my previous reply :hug:

2. the kiblat changed from baitul muqaddis (mind the spelling) palestine to makkah because of several reasons
a) the ummah of muhammad is special. they will not have the same kiblat as previous people of the book.
b)kaabah was built by prophet ibrahim which was thr great great great great grandad of muhammad and ibrahim was not a jew, so we follow no jewish tradition.
c)in economic stance, baitul muqaddis have no political or economic power unlike mekah which was the center of the economic trade and political power. to control it is to control arabic peninsular, so many islamic scholars and thinkers this was also the reason or symbolic regarding the change.

3. muhammad is the seal of the propethood. he did not break any commanmends.besides, al quran for us is the final and comprehensive revelation.

4. inside the hira cave , indeed the angel gabriel (jibrael) met muhammad. montogmory watt(one of those writers who critisize islam) said that it was the devil who met muhammad. if so, why did this 'devil' said " iqraq bismi rob bikallazi.." = read in the name of your GOD. ? i have never find any statement regarding the devil praising the god then, i dont recall abraham following the sabbath..the sabbath was originally for jewish prophets.
hope this clarifies.
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Post time 10-12-2004 09:18 AM | Show all posts
Originally posted by me at 9-12-2004 03:00 PM:


oh...but in the koran god needed 6 periods to finish the job...which could mean millions of years...you can ask kyas for this...


yes its true. but..

quran is the revelation that is full of knowledge. we muslims regard is as the primary source of knowledge. the verse in the quran that was the creation of the whole world is actually a knowledge of the universe. god tells us how he created the universe, meaning that the universe doesnt just happen to be here.it is an infact the solid explanation for those atheist who deny the existance of god and who regards earth is just another nature phenomenon.if not, even muslims ourselves will wonder who created the universe and how god created it. this verse explains everything, just as the verse that explains the process of a featus becoming a baby :love:

hope this clarifies.
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me This user has been deleted
Post time 10-12-2004 09:24 AM | Show all posts
god tells us how he created the universe, meaning that the universe doesnt just happen to be here.it is an infact the solid explanation for those atheist who deny the existance of god and who regards earth is just another nature phenomenon.if not, even muslims ourselves will wonder who created the universe and how god created it.


so god did create the universe in millions of years...but you said he can create it in a blink of and eye, maybe less...why?? why go thru all that trouble??
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Post time 10-12-2004 09:43 AM | Show all posts
to explain to us that indeed everything has a process and he created them all, the universe does not just happened to be here .

hope this clarifies
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Post time 10-12-2004 09:44 AM | Show all posts
Originally posted by snipersnake at 9-12-2004 03:43 PM:
to explain to us that indeed everything has a process and he created them all, the universe does not just happened to be here .
and yes he went to all that trouble because he loves us.
hope this clarifies
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me This user has been deleted
Post time 10-12-2004 09:50 AM | Show all posts
he goes thru all that trouble because he loves us...

then what is this...

1. If God willing to pardon us our "sins",

a. Wouldn't we broke the concept of God above by believing Him converted to "His Creation" just because He wants to "save" or pardon His creation which He should did it straight away?

Please note the keyword are "willing" and "straight away"
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Post time 10-12-2004 10:44 PM | Show all posts
Originally posted by me at 9-12-2004 03:50 PM:
he goes thru all that trouble because he loves us...

then what is this...



hi again

another simple question to answer:

if god easily forgives our sin, then our world will be in chaos..forgiveness is give for those who earned it by a very deep regret and remorse and a strong promise not to repeat it (taubah an nasuha)

hope this clarifies..

sometimes i wonder if u n debmey are paid to post things like this here...nevermind..keep the questions coming and i will try my very best to answer them insyallah :lebai:
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Post time 10-12-2004 11:24 PM | Show all posts
Originally posted by me at 10-12-2004 09:50 AM:
he goes thru all that trouble because he loves us...

then what is this...



It means God doesn't need to kill HIMself in order to pardon human sin. Simple!

[ Last edited by kid on 10-12-2004 at 11:25 PM ]
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me This user has been deleted
Post time 11-12-2004 10:14 AM | Show all posts
Originally posted by snipersnake at 10-12-2004 10:44 PM:


hi again

another simple question to answer:

if god easily forgives our sin, then our world will be in chaos..forgiveness is give for those who earned it by a very deep regret and remor ...


thanks for agreeing with  me...

see kid...there are some muslims that understand...
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Post time 11-12-2004 10:28 AM | Show all posts
Originally posted by kid at  11:24 PM:


It means God doesn't need to kill HIMself in order to pardon human sin. Simple!

[ Last edited by kid on 10-12-2004 at 11:25 PM ]



God of Bible is LOVE. To take another humans sin on cross is way of showing how God love us, unlike ur teachings....sura 5:51....promoted hatred verses.
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Post time 11-12-2004 10:35 AM | Show all posts
Originally posted by snipersnake at  09:10 AM:


okay since FINALLY we are having some educational conversation here.

1. I stated no anger in my previous reply :hug:

2. the kiblat changed from baitul muqaddis (mind the spelling) palesti ...


Kaba is a cubic shrine in the middle of the city of Mecca. The shrine is covered by an expensive dark cloth made out of silk and satin, embroidered with golden koranic verses (and decorated by gems). On one of the corners of Kaba, there is a black stone covered by gold. This stone looks like a kind of meteor that can be found in the asteroid belt. The room inside Kaba is a forbidden place to visit. Only the king of the nation, the Imam (priests) of the city, and on rare occasions Muslim kings and princess are allowed to enter that room, (Nobody else knows what is displayed in its interior). Surrounding the shrine from four sides is the huge mosque called "alMasjid alharam". It is capable of holding around two million people at once. Kaba and the mosque are considered the most holy places on earth and the represent first direction for prayer. Islam teaches that Allah (the god of Muslims) chose the site of Kaba and commanded Adam to build a sanctuary there for the purpose of worship. This event was supposed to have happened right after Adam and Eve were thrown out of the Garden of Eden. Allah gave the black stone to Adam (in order to use it as the corner stone) for building the shrine.

For further reading, pls click here : http://forum.cari.com.my/viewthread.php?tid=76130&fpage=1]%20Room%20inside%20Kaba%20is%20a%20forbidden.Why?
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