Siapa Sebenarnya Kaum Hindustan?

fleurzsa

Salam n Good day,

My friend tanya I persoalan ini.  I pun seperti terkejut dari mimpi..

Pernahkah anda terfikir tentang asal usul org hindustan?

Mengapa diorang berbeza tul ngan org Tamil kat India. Walhal diorang dekat2 jer.  Satu hensem tinggi hidung mancung putih.  Manakala yg India tu lak berbeza rupanyer.

Adakah.....org Hindustan dari Eropah? Sebab Mat Salleh jer kriteria sebegitu.

:hmm:

:hmm:

Meh le tolong I jawab kat my friend ni... :bodek:

[ Last edited by fleurzsa on 7-12-2004 at 06:13 PM ]

temansejati17

Tak baik cakap org tamil camgitu...kat benua kecil India memang byk etnik dan bukan kaum hindustan jer yg cantik dan putih,kashmiri pun cantik gak...diorang p'caya yg diorang ni keturunan the lost tribes

fleurzsa

Originally posted by temansejati17 at 7-12-2004 06:03 PM:
Tak baik cakap org tamil camgitu...kat benua kecil India memang byk etnik dan bukan kaum hindustan jer yg cantik dan putih,kashmiri pun cantik gak...diorang p'caya yg diorang ni keturunan the lost  ...

Opss..minta maaf banyak2...  I tertulis bulat2 persoalan my friend tu.. I dah edit.:nyorok:

Terima kasih kerana menegur..

yerp...sape mereka ni.. tgk filem jer tahu :bgrin:

Remy_3D

Contoh paling dekat ialah orang semanjung dan orang borneo, kebanyakkan orang borneo lebih ayu dari semanjung

fleurzsa

Adakah mereka ni asalnya kaum Aryan???? Yg juga merupakan kaum Hitler?????  Yg juga merupakan kaum yg ego tinggi????

Mengapa dikatakan kaum yg terpilih oleh Tuhan… yg mengakibat Hitler ingin membunuh semua manusia.....dan kenapa dia pilih untuk bunuh Jews dulu...

Mereka  ada baca al Quran ker....pasal kaum yahudi... Pasal apa Hitler tak bunuh org Eropah je dulu British ker....Russian ker.. org Islam ker...TETAPI Jews..??????

temansejati17

Macam ni,kaum aryan ni yang mula-mula invent idea pasal dialah kaum yang paling berkuasa/bijak kat dunia ni dan terpilih oleh Tuhan.Sementara orang Yahudi pula invent bahwa merekalah yang menyembah Tuhan yang esa...Orang Aryan tak boleh terima Jesus itu berketurunan Yahudi,diorang nak Jesus tu berambut perang dan bermata biru bukan berambut hitam.

Orang Aryan semasa Kewujudan Nazi ni bukan benci orang Yahudi saja,saya tak paham kenapa orang sokong Nazi:stp::stp::stp:Banyak kaum dekat Negara-negara Balkan seperti Bosnia,Serbia,Croatia,Albania dan lain lain disembelih oleh puak-puak Ushtashi yang menyokong gerakan Nazi ni.Orang Bosnia pada masa tu kan dah Islam tapi kene sembelih jugak so jangan ingat diorang(Nazi) tu kawan kita..tu kebodohan yang paling memalukan.Sampai akhir-akhir ni rantau balkan tu memang tak pernah aman dengan penyembelihan manusia sebab kaum Serbia ingin membalas dendam tapi yang kene pulak ialah orang Islam(Bosnia dan Albania)..

Cuma saya tak pasti adakah penubuhan Zionism berlaku selepas Kemunculan Nazi atau sebelum Nazi...tapi saya ingat falsafah Zionism ni diambil drpd falsafah Nazism iaitu bangsa yang terpilih untuk dunia dan lain-lain.

Betulkan kalau banyak yg salah:malu::malu:

snipersnake

aku dgr cerita hindustan nih kacukan parsi n india..

hirai_saza

Originally posted by temansejati17 at 7-12-2004 06:03 PM:
Tak baik cakap org tamil camgitu...kat benua kecil India memang byk etnik dan bukan kaum hindustan jer yg cantik dan putih,kashmiri pun cantik gak...diorang p'caya yg diorang ni keturunan the lost  ...

owang kashmir lawa2 sebab depa duk kat bahagian bukit2..
tgk jekkk laa..kulit depa tuhhh putih2..takdek pun hitam legam..

yg pasai hindustang tak tau laaaaakkk:stp:

eva

Originally posted by fleurzsa at 7-12-2004 09:34:
Salam n Good day,

My friend tanya I persoalan ini.  I pun seperti terkejut dari mimpi..

Pernahkah anda terfikir tentang asal usul org hindustan?

Mengapa diorang berbeza tul ngan org Tam ...

asal usul dorang... dorang tu bangsa Aryan.. sama seperti bangsa Aryan lain di Eropah.. soo tak heran badan dorang tegap dan tinggi seperti Europeans sbb dorang dr root sama.. Manakala org India yg tamil tuh.. yg gelap sikit dr org Aryan dipanggil Dravidian, doranglah penduduk asal India. Drivadian inilah sebenarnya bangsa yg membangunkan Indus Civilization sebelum mereka di serang and pushed downward region oleh bangsa Aryan@ Hindustan atau kashmiri.

Dgn tinggalan kaum Dravidian tu, kaum Aryan membangunkan semula Indus Civilization dan memperkenalkan Rig Veda

ok nanti sambung sket about Aryan kat posting baru ok :cak:

[ Last edited by eva on 8-12-2004 at 10:54 AM ]

eva

They called themselves the "noble ones" or the "superior ones." Their names are lost; their tribal names are lost. But when they found themselves conquerors, they gave themselves the name "superior" or "noble."

   They were a tribal and nomadic peoples living in the far reaches of Euro-Asia in hostile steppe lands barely scratching out a living. They were unquestionably a tough people, and they were fierce and war-like. Their religion reflects it dominated as it is by a storm-god or sky-god that enjoins warfare and conquest. This god was called something like "Dyaus," a word related to "Zeus," "deus" (the Latin word for "god" ), "deva" (the Sanskrit word for "god" ), and, of course, the English word "divine." Their culture was oriented around warfare, and they were very good at it. They were superior on horseback and rushed into battle in chariots.










They were a tribal people ruled over by a war-chief, or raja (the Latin word "rex" (king) comes from the same root word, along with the English "regal" ). Somewhere in the early centuries of the second millenium BC, they began to migrate southwards in waves of steady conquest across the face of Persia and the lands of India.

   There, they would take on the name "superior" or "noble" to distinguish themselves from the people they conquered. Their name is derived from the Indo-European root word, "ar," meaning "noble." In Sanskrit, they were the "Aryas" ( "Aryans" ); but that root, "ar," would also serve as the foundation of the name of the conquered Persian territories, "Iran." This concept of nobility, in fact, seems to lie at the heart of Indo-European consciousness, for it appears in another country's name, "Ireland," or "Eire." You can bet, however, that when a people go around calling themselves superior that it spells bad news for other people.





   And there is no question that they were bad news for the southern Asians. They swept over Persia with lightening speed, and spread across the northern river plains of India. Their nature as a warlike, conquering people are still preserved in Vedic religion, the foundation of Hinduism. In the Rig Veda, the collection of praises to the gods, the god Indra towers over the poetry as a conquering god, one that smashes cities and slays enemies. The invading Aryans were originally nomadic peoples, not agricultural. They penetrated India from the north-west, settling first in the Indus valley. Unlike the Harappans, however, they eventually concentrated their populations along the Ganges floodplain. The Ganges, unlike the Indus, is far milder and more predictable in its flooding. It must have been a paradise to a people from the dry steppes of central Asia and Iran, a paradise full of water and forest. When they arrived, the vast northern plains were almost certainly densely forested. Where now bare fields stretch to the horizon, when the Aryans arrived lush forests stretched to those very same horizons. Clearing the forests over the centuries was an epic project and one that is still preserved in Indian literature.

   The Aryans, or Vedic civilization were a new start in Indian culture. Harappa was more or less a dead end (at least as far as we know); the Aryans adopted almost nothing of Harappan culture. They built no cities, no states, no granaries, and used no writing. Instead they were a warlike people that organized themselves in individual tribal, kinship units, the jana. The jana was ruled over by a war-chief. These tribes spread quickly over northern India and the Deccan. In a process that we do not understand, the basic social unit of Aryan culture, the jana, slowly developed from an organization based on kinship to one based on geography. The jana became a janapada, or nation and the jana-rajya , or tribal kingdom, became the jana-rajyapada, or national kingdom. So powerfully ingrained into Indian culture is the jana-pada , that Indians still define themselves mainly by their territorial origins. All the major territories of modern India, with their separate cultures and separate languages, can be dated back to the early jana-padas of Vedic India.

   The earliest history of the Aryans in India is called the Rigvedic Period (1700-1000 BC) after the religious praise poems that are the oldest pieces of literature in India. These poems, the Rig Veda, are believed to represent the most primitive layer of Indo-European religion and have many characteristics in common with Persian religion since the two peoples are closely related in time. In this early period, their population was restricted to the Punjab in the northern reaches of the Indus River and the Yamuna River near the Ganges. They maintained the Aryan tribal structure, with a raja ruling over the tribal group in tandem with a council. Each jana seems to have had a chief priest; the religion was focused almost entirely on a series of sacrifices to the gods. The Rigvedic peoples originally had only two social classes: nobles and commoners. Eventually, they added a third: Dasas , or "darks." These were, we presume, the darker-skinned people they had conquered. By the end of the Rigvedic period, social class had settled into four rigid castes: the caturvarnas, or "four colors." At the top of the caturvarnas were the priests, or Brahmans. Below the priests were the warriors or nobles (Kshatriya), the craftspeople and merchants (Vaishya), and the servants (Shudra), who made up the bulk of society. These economic classes were legitimated by an elaborate religious system and would be eventually subdivided into a huge number of economic sub-classes which we call "castes." Social class by the end of the Rigvedic period became completely inflexible; there was no such thing as social mobility.

   In the early centuries of Later Vedic Period or Brahmanic Period (1000-500 BC), the Aryans migrated across the Doab, which is a large plain which separates the Yamuna River from the Ganges. It was a difficult project, for the Doab was thickly forested; the Aryans slowly burned and settled the Doab until they reached the Ganges. While the Rig Veda represents the most primitive religion of the Aryans during the Rigvedic Period, the religion of the Later Vedic period is dominated by the Brahmanas, or priestly book, which was composed sometime between 1000 and 850 BC. Later Vedic society is dominated by the Brahmans and every aspect of Aryan life comes under the control of priestly rituals and spells. In history as the Indians understand it, the Later Vedic Period is the Epic Age; the great literary, heroic epics of Indian culture, the Mahabharata and the Ramayana, though they were composed between 500 and 200 BC, were probably originally formulated and told in the Later Vedic Period. Both of these epics deal with heroes from this period and demonstrate how Aryan cultural values, as we can understand them from the Rig Veda , are being transformed by mixing with Indus cultures.




   What did the Aryans do with their time? They seem to have had a well-developed musical culture, and song and dance dominated their society. They were not greatly invested in the visual arts, but their interest in lyric poetry was unmatched. They loved gambling. They did not, however, have much interest in writing even though they could have inherited a civilization and a writing system when they originally settled India. We do not know exactly when they became interested in writing, but it may have been at the end of the Brahmanic period somewhere between 650 and 500 BC. Still, there are no Aryan writings until the Mauryan period梖rom Harappa (2500-1750 BC) to Maurya (300 BC) is quite a long time. The script that the Mauryans used is called "Brahmi" script and was used to write not only the religious and literary language of the time, Sanskrit, but also the vernacular languages. This script, Brahmi, is the national alphabet of India.


(modern aryan people)

   The Vedic period, then, is a period of cultural mixing, not of conquest. Although the Aryans were a conquering people when they first spread into India, the culture of the Aryans would gradually mix with indigenous cultures, and the war-religion of the Aryans, still preserved in parts of the Rig Veda, slowly became more ritualized and more meditative. By 200 BC, this process of mixing and transforming was more or less complete and the culture we call "Indian" was fully formed.  

source : http://www.wsu.edu:8080/~dee/ANCINDIA/ARYANS.HTM

[ Last edited by eva on 8-12-2004 at 11:15 AM ]

eva

In 1920 archaeologists announced the discovery of extensive urban ruins in the Indus Valley which pre-dated the earliest archaeological sources and this has caused scholars to re-examine their views on the different phases of Indian culture. The Rig Veda which speaks in such derogatory terms of the enemies subdued by the Aryan tribes, gives the impression that they were all savage barbarians.





The Brahmins for centuries have degraded the original inhabitants of India with the intention of self elevation, preservation and oppression. These ancient dwellers in India were Dravidians, and in fact, their culture had developed a highly sophisticated way of life. The existence of the Brahui tribe in Baluchistan, to the west of the Indus, who speak a Dravidian language like South Indian Tamil, gives evidence that a migration of people or culture did occur. Also the Harappa religion shows many similarities with those elements of Hinduism which are specially popular in the present Dravidian culture5. Archaeological evidence shows that the Indus Valley culture moved from west to east, with sites towards central and southern India flourishing after Harappa and Mohenjo-daro had declined. This civilization is one of the three great early civilizations that arose in the late fourth and third millennia BC around the three large alluvial systems of the Tigris-Euphrates, Nile and Indus rivers.

This civilization was thought to have been confined to the valley of the river Indus, hence the name given to it was Indus Valley civilization. This civilization was a highly developed urban one and two of its towns, Mohenjo-daro and Harappa, represent the high watermark of the settlements. Subsequent archaeological excavations established that the contours of this civilization were not restricted to the Indus valley but spread to a wide area in northwestern and western India. Thus this civilization is now better known as the Harappan civilization. Mohenjo-daro and Harappa are now in Pakistan and the principal sites in India include Ropar in Punjab, Lothal in Gujarat and Kalibangan in Rajasthan. Recent research has shown Sutkagen Dor in Baluchistan next to Iran is the westernmost known Harappan site. It is thought to have once been on a navigable inlet of the Arabian Sea, and the usual citadel and town are present, as well as defensive walls 30 feet wide. Sutkagen Dor would have been on the trade route from Lothal to Mesopotamia.



The extensive excavations carried out at the two principal city sites, Harappa and Mohenjo-daro, indicates that this Dravidian culture was well established by about 2500 B.C. What we know of this ancient civilization is derived almost exclusively from archaeological data since every attempt to decipher the script used by these people has failed so far. Recent analyses of the order of the signs on the inscriptions have led several scholars to the view that the language is not of the Indo-European family, nor is it close to the Sumerians, Hurrians, or Elamite, nor can it be related to the structure of the Munda languages of modern India. If it is related to any modern language family it appears to be Dravidian akin to Old Tamil, presently spoken throughout the southern part of the Indian Peninsula. 2 A study of the evolution of scripts in India indicates that the Dravidians, over the centuries, have made the key contributions to the development of language and literature in India.



There are literary as well as archaeological evidences to show that there was trade with Mesopotamia. The presence of a number of Indus seals at Ur and other Mesopotamian cities and the discovery of a 'Persian Gulf' type of seal at Lothal - otherwise known from the Persian Gulf ports of Bahrain and Failaka, and from Mesopotamia-provide convincing corroboration of the sea trade suggested by the Lothal dock in Gujarat. Ancient Mesopotamian texts speak of trading with at least two seafaring civilizations - Makkan and Meluha - in the neighborhood of India in the third millennium B.C. This trade was conducted with real financial sophistication in amounts that could involve tons of copper. The Mesopotamians speak of Meluha as an aquatic culture, where water and bathing played a central role. A number of Indus Valley objects have been found buried with Mesopotamians.



The Indus cities seem to have had very few public buildings. The only one of any note is the Great Bath at Mohenjo-daro which appears to have been used in the performance of certain rituals. Nothing that can be clearly identified as a temple or a shrine has yet been discovered. A structure once considered a granary is now thought to have been a palace with ventilated air ducts. The people depended upon agriculture and trade for their livelihood. Wheat, barley and the date palm were cultivated; animals were domesticated; and the cotton textiles, ivory and copper were exported to Mesopotamia, and possibly China and Burma in exchange for silver and other commodities. Production of several metals such as copper, bronze, lead and tin was also undertaken and some remnants of furnaces provide evidence of this fact. The discovery of kilns to make bricks support the fact that burnt bricks were used extensively in domestic and public buildings. The Harappans used the same size bricks and standard weights.





Evidence for the religious beliefs and practices of these people is slight, since the Indus script cannot be read and apart from the bath, there appears to be no religious structure. A certain amount of information has been derived from scenes depicted on seal-amulets and from the terra-cotta figurines found at different sites throughout the area. However such evidence is open to wide interpretation. The predominance of female figurines and seals depicting a horned goddess in association with the sacred pipal tree are generally regarded as evidence of the worship of a mother goddess who presided over fertility and birth and who may have acted as guardian and protector of the dead.

In some of the mother goddess cults of the Ancient Near East, the Great Mother who symbolized the power of fertility came also to be associated with the renewal of human life after death. She protected and revived those committed to the earth from whence this new life sprang. Inhumation was the most common method of disposing a corpse and they were buried with an assortment of grave goods, including pottery vessels which may have contained food and drink offerings.



The great bath at Mohenjo-daro could not have been constructed for the purpose of hygiene since all the private dwellings were equipped with excellent bathrooms. Since so many elements of the Indus culture appear to have found their way into Hinduism, it is possible that ancient purification rites were taken over and reinterpreted by members of the Brahmin caste. If this is so the later practice of constructing artificial lotus ponds may be very ancient indeed. These lotus ponds were used during historic times for various purification ceremonies and one theory suggests that the bath was probably used by the mother goddess cult. The cult at Mohenjo-daro may have involved some form of ceremonial bathing as a prelude to ritual cohabitation with prostitutes associated with the goddess, carried out in the small ante-chambers adjoining the bath.

[ Last edited by eva on 8-12-2004 at 11:12 AM ]

eva

(Dravidian people)

One seal uncovered at Mohenjo-daro depicts a three-faced male god with arms outstretched, seated on a low platform in a cross legged position (like a yogi). His arms are adorned with bangles and his head is crowned with a fan-shaped head-dress from which two horns project. He is surrounded by animals and fertility symbols suggest that he concerned with the promotion of fertility.

The appearance of coarser type of pottery indicates invaders in the Indus cities. At Mohenjo-daro large rooms were divided into smaller ones and mansions became tenements, and the street plan no longer maintained. Evidently the city was over populated and law an order were less kept, perhaps because the invaders were already ranging the provinces and city was full of newcomers. Around 1750 B.C. the uniform culture of this great area broke up. The cause or causes of the end of the Indus civilization are not easy to determine. At Mohenjo-daro groups of sprawling skeletons in this period suggests some sort of massacre or invasion. The end of the Indus Valley Civilization may have been fairly abrupt and violent, but long before the end came, there seems to have been a gradual process of internal decay and stagnation.

There is not enough evidence to say that the destroyers of the Indus cities were members of the group of tribes whose priests composed the RgVeda5. However it is probable that the fall of this great civilization was partly due to the widespread migratory movements of charioteering peoples which altered the face of the whole civilized world in the 2nd millennium B.C. During King Solomon's reign over Israel (970-931 B.C.) we see that chariots and horses were imported from Egypt and exported to Asia Minor.

From the evidences presented in religions of Hinduism and Mahayana Buddhism, and the linguistic evidence in Sanskrit, we can see that early Indian Christianity totally transformed the religions and worships in India. However, these earlier practices were syncretised into Christianity resulting in it's corruption and decay.

source: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Parthenon/2104/indusvalley.html

RainbowSix

Hi eva,

How cold is the UK right now?


R6

fleurzsa

Thanks all,

Pastu lambang swastika Hitler tu ada pada agama Hindu.   Tak caya cuba check…

Cuma  kedudukan swastika je senget.  Dalam banyak2 logo… logo tu yg dia pilih pasal apa tak guna lambang helang yg merupakan lambang German dulu???

eva

Originally posted by RainbowSix at 8-12-2004 11:59:
Hi eva,

How cold is the UK right now?


R6

hi R6, thank you for asking..today is ok.. about 7 celcius.. i dunno esok camana :bgrin:.. i wish this year gonna be a white Xmas bleh baling snowball :bgrin:

[ Last edited by eva on 8-12-2004 at 07:30 PM ]

eva

[quote]Originally posted by fleurzsa at 8-12-2004 14:28:
Thanks all,

Pastu lambang swastika Hitler tu ada pada agama Hindu.   Tak caya cuba check

eva

[quote]Originally posted by fleurzsa at 8-12-2004 14:28:
Thanks all,

Pastu lambang swastika Hitler tu ada pada agama Hindu.   Tak caya cuba check

HangPC2

Bangsa ROMA (GIPSI) di romania dikatakan berasal dari india ntah betul ker..:stp:

zy

Ada member singh  kat opis ni kata mereka ni...adalah keturunanan askar2 alexander the great  yg tinggal dan kawin dgn org tempatan....sebab tu muka ada iras2 mat salleh....sukusakat mereka ni bleh ditrace sampai ke iran....bangsa sama tapi agama lainlain..

sekadar pendapat  dia....  ada bukti tak..?