English-Blurrr-assistance

Potpouri

Originally posted by RainbowSix at 24-1-2005 09:20 PM:
This is also Past perfect tense. The only difference is that there were two events one after another that ended in the past. Its called non-progressive verb.

e.g  I had had the car for ten years ...

ooo...dats how it works..hmmm...
so, for the sentence given by seribulan,

the first sentence is the same like ur example (rite?)...but for the second one...she'd had her hair permed twice a year is quite confusing...is she now still continuingly perm her hair? or not? if yes, should it fall into this category?...
she'd had her hair permed-  

The sentence above shows that she had her hair forr a period of time and permed it after in that period of time which is in the past.
Two verbs which ended in the past.
1) had the hair
2) permed the hair

but i still confuse...she still has the same hair now, hasn't she? hehehehhee

[ Last edited by Potpouri on 25-1-2005 at 09:15 AM ]

RainbowSix

Originally posted by Potpouri at 25/1/2005 09:14:


ooo...dats how it works..hmmm...
so, for the sentence given by seribulan,

the first sentence is the same like ur example (rite?)...but for the second one...she'd had her hair permed twice a ...

e.g She'd had her hair permed twice last year

Two verbs in the past :

   1) Permed her hair 1x
   2) Permed her hair again (2x)

Whenever u encounter such a sentence, please post it here. I will try and explain it to you.

Lets not get mixed up.

R6

[ Last edited by RainbowSix on 28-1-2005 at 12:07 AM ]

Potpouri

Originally posted by RainbowSix at 25-1-2005 11:16 AM:



e.g She'd had her hair permed twice a year

Two events in the past :

   1) Permed her hair 1x
   2) Permed her hair again (2x)

Whenever u encouter such a sentence, please post ...

oic..:hmm:

blackmore

Originally posted by RainbowSix at 24-1-2005 15:06:


The reason we use Past perfect tense is to show continuity or relevance today.

e.g  The car has had its body fixed last week, but it is dented again.

       I have had the engine fixed l ...

....R6...the given examples above are actually Present Perfect Tense...and not Past Perfect Tense...

...eerr...actually...the PAST PERFECT tense is used when TWO things occur in the past... and you want to indicate which one of those two happened BEFORE the other....

...with Non-progressive Verbs and some non-progressive uses of Mixed Verbs we use the Past Perfect to show that something started in the past and continued up until another action in the past....

...eg like...I had had that car for 10 years before I sold it...

...forgive me R6...but i think u got your tenses mixed up...

...Past perfect tense is to show continuity or relevance today....<----this is not so...Present Perfect Continuous tense is the one that is used for an action which began in the past and is still continuing...

...give u example...Allan said " I have been trying the jacket for  two hours.  I think I will buy it"...

~Is Allan still trying?...No..he isnt..he has stopped trying...now he has decided to buy it...the verb 'has been trying' is also in the Present Perfect Continuous Tense...

...the Present Perfect Continuous Tense is also used for an action which began in the past and has only just completed...


...the Past Perfect Continuous Tense show actions that have occurred in the past and have finished now or have not finished yet...eg...She told us that she had been taking a course for nursing...

...it is also used to show an event that was happening in the past when another occurred...eg...When she went home, she found out that her maid had been sleeping for the whole afternoon...

...also used to show activities that are repeated...eg...she had been playing the piano since 3 oclock

...also used to draw conclusions...eg...she looked so much thinner. Hence everyone assume that she had been eating less junk food...

...Past Perfect Continuous tense also takes the place of the Present Perfect Continuous Tense in Indirect Speech...(is used to replace the Present Perfect Continuous tense in Indirect Speech)

..eg...Mia said, "I have been watching a lot of movies."
----Mia said that she had been watching a lot of movies....




[ Last edited by blackmore on 28-7-2005 at 03:44 AM ]

peace

Dear all I got a question,,

Why we must use,

"the car has had it's body fixed last week"

kenapa tak guna,

"the had it's body fixed last week"

yg no 2 tu kira salah ke?

[ Last edited by peace on 29-7-2005 at 04:08 PM ]

blackmore

Originally posted by peace at 29-7-2005 15:35:
Dear all I got a question,,

Why we must use,

"the car has had it's body fixed last week"

kenapa tak guna,

"the had it's body fixed last week"

yg no 2 tu kira sal ...

...peace...firstly...let me just correct some of the grammatical errors in the examples used above...

...the car has had it's body fixed last week (wrong)

...the car had had its body fixed last week...... (correct)

...u have to use had and not has becos it was being fixed last week...

...the word 'it's' = it is....which is different from the word 'its' altogether...'its' is a possessive pronoun which shows ownership...so dont get confused...

...ayat yang no. 2 tu betul dan bley kita gunakan jika the sentence ends at that point...ie..the car had its body fixed last week.

...we use had had when something else happened to that car...like...

...eg...we had had the car fixed last week before we sold it...

...in this sentence...there are 2 actions that had taken place...1..the car was fixed...2..the car was sold...

...like ive mentioned before..past perfect tense is used when 2 things occur in the past and u want to indicate which one of those two happened before the other....


....eerr...faham tak??

peace

oh thanks.. B'more. Baru jelas sekarang, pagi tadi dari pukul 8 sampai pukul 10 cuba fahamkan penjelasan tapi tak faham.

Jadi sebenarnya yg betul ialah.. (Saya cuba quote balik..)


1. "The car had its body fixed last week" -  Only 1 thing happen and it end in the past.


2. "I had had the car fixed last week before I sold it. - 2 perkara berlaku di masa yg lepas iaitu kereta tu kena repair dulu lepas tu baru dijual..


Terima kasih B'more atas penjelasan tentang perbezaan antara "It's" dgn "Its" malam ni baru tahu bezanya

[ Last edited by peace on 30-7-2005 at 02:19 AM ]

blackmore

Originally posted by peace at 30-7-2005 02:18:
oh thanks.. B'more. Baru jelas sekarang, pagi tadi dari pukul 8 sampai pukul 10 cuba fahamkan penjelasan tapi tak faham.

Jadi sebenarnya yg betul ialah.. (Saya cuba quote balik..)


1. "The car had its body fixed last week" -  Only 1 thing happen and it end in the past.


2. "I had had the car fixed last week before I sold it. - 2 perkara berlaku di masa yg lepas iaitu kereta tu kena repair dulu lepas tu baru dijual..


Terima kasih B'more atas penjelasan tentang perbezaan antara "It's" dgn "Its" malam ni baru tahu bezanya

...:clap::clap:..ye...betul...

...eerr...no hal...kita blajar sama2 ye..:bgrin:

peace

err... i want to ask one more. Is it proper if we use word 'but' at the beginning of a sentence.

For Example :

"The planning and implementation of a system in a state level is similar with federal level. It's involve in planning, implementation, coordination, and controlling of policies. But, in some matters like Education, Health and Immigration for example, which is under Federal Government there will be a ministry which act in State Level.


Apa perkataan yang sesuai untuk membawa maksud 'YANG'. Saya selalu guna perkataan 'Which is', ataupun 'That is'.... kalo taip assignment.. penuh jelah bermuka - muka surat dengan perkataan tu..... contoh ayat kat atas je dah guna dua kali dah...

ada tak tips untuk mengelakkan penggunaan perkataan 'YANG' semasa bercerita dalam Bahasa Inggeris? adakah ini disebabkan saya berfikir dalam Bahasa Melayu?

seribulan

err... i want to ask one more. Is it proper if we use word 'but' at the beginning of a sentence.

:hmm:the usage of 'But'...actually tidak begitu digalakkan...tetapi masih boleh digunapakai....
sebab 'but' lebih sesuai utk menyambung ayat...
Kadangkala...penggunaan 'Though', 'However' etc adalah lebih sesuai untuk pembuka ayat...
For Example :

"The planning and implementation of a system in a state level is similar with federal level. It's involve in planning, implementation, coordination, and controlling of policies. But, in some matters like Education, Health and Immigration for example, which is under Federal Government there will be a ministry which act in State Level.


Apa perkataan yang sesuai untuk membawa maksud 'YANG'. Saya selalu guna perkataan 'Which is', ataupun 'That is'.... kalo taip assignment.. penuh jelah bermuka - muka surat dengan perkataan tu..... contoh ayat kat atas je dah guna dua kali dah...

ada tak tips untuk mengelakkan penggunaan perkataan 'YANG' semasa bercerita dalam Bahasa Inggeris? adakah ini disebabkan saya berfikir dalam Bahasa Melayu?

:hmm:tips elak guna 'YANG' bebanyak...

But, in some matters like Education, Health and Immigration for example, which is under Federal Government there will be a ministry which act in State Level.

like and for example...sama makna...so redundant...just guna salah satu ye...

However, in some matters like Education, Health and Immigration, which is under Federal Government there will be a ministry acting in State Level.

;)setakat ni jer yg sempat perbetulkan...

blackmore

Originally posted by peace at 29-9-2005 08:08 PM
err... i want to ask one more. Is it proper if we use word 'but' at the beginning of a sentence.

...A frequently asked question about conjunctions is whether and or but can be used at the beginning of a sentence. This is what R.W. Burchfield has to say about this use of and:

There is a persistent belief that it is improper to begin a sentence with And, but this prohibition has been cheerfully ignored by standard authors from Anglo-Saxon times onwards. An initial And is a useful aid to writers as the narrative continues.

The same is true with the conjunction but. A sentence beginning with and or but will tend to draw attention to itself and its transitional function. Writers should examine such sentences with two questions in mind: (1) would the sentence and paragraph function just as well without the initial conjunction? (2) should the sentence in question be connected to the previous sentence? If the initial conjunction still seems appropriate, use it.

For Example :

"The planning and implementation of a system in a state level is similar with federal level. It's involve in planning, implementation, coordination, and controlling of policies.

...eerr...minor correction...when u use It's...the next word that follows must be ending with " ing "...because It's = It is ....so...involve will have to be involving instead...jadi...the sentence will read as such:  It's involving in planning, implementation, etc etc....tapi...kalau baca balik...sounds sumbang kan???...so...in this instance...u cant use the word It's...instead...just use It...so your sentence will be cam nie:  It involves planning, implementation, coordination...etc..etc...

...eerr...not very sure...but...i think the word 'at' is more appropriate than 'in'...seri...shed some light please....

But, in some matters like Education, Health and Immigration for example, which is under Federal Government there will be a ministry which act in State Level.

...But is generally not followed by a comma...the correct written style is...eg...Ali wanted to leave, but we stayed...  not  ....Ali wanted to leave, but, we stayed...same thing when u use it sebagai permulaan ayat...so drop the comma...

...also...it is ok if u omit those words (that are in bold) in your sentence cos it doesnt change maksud yang u nak sampaikan...so your sentence will be like this....But matters like Education, Health and Immigration, which are under the Federal Govt will have a ministry acting at State level...

...eerr...i think 'at state level' sounds better than 'in state level'...eerr...what do u think seri???

Apa perkataan yang sesuai untuk membawa maksud 'YANG'. Saya selalu guna perkataan 'Which is', ataupun 'That is'.... kalo taip assignment.. penuh jelah bermuka - muka surat dengan perkataan tu..... contoh ayat kat atas je dah guna dua kali dah...

ada tak tips untuk mengelakkan penggunaan perkataan 'YANG' semasa bercerita dalam Bahasa Inggeris? adakah ini disebabkan saya berfikir dalam Bahasa Melayu?

...heh...kalau u have to use those words frequently...then use them...no hard and fast rules actually...cuma...mungkin use them alternately so that it doesnt sound so eerr...jelak??..hehehehe...:cak:

peace

Thank you so much Seribulan and Blackmore for teaching me and correcting my mistake......

both of you are cool.


err... using same words frequently is ok? thanks! :bgrin:

taiaha

Interesting to note that even native English speakers have problems with the language:cak:

seribulan

Just like us, Malays...we still have problems with BM... example, when
to use 'di' and 'pada'...so many people got em mixed-up...

DUDAensem

Originally posted by Potpouri at 5-1-2005 05:50 PM
Hi everybody,

Hope that sumbody could help me.(Seribulan & others).i dun understand sum of the statement i've read from novel n sumwhere else..keep wondering y n y..:gila:

I always find people use have had in the same statement.
example; we have had the children taught to swim.
and sum other statement that i could not recalled at this moment.
...

Dearie
Before you go any further, you should first familiarize yourself with all the tenses in subject-verb agreement. You should start with A then end with Z. You can't simply pick & throw, that's dangerous coz this will lead you into a deep confusion.  Start with simple present then try to  identify "resent - Past - Future" verbs.

Let me try to go as simple as can be,

A.  Present Perfect  ----------> [HAS / HAVE] + [past participle]
B.  Past Perfect        ----------> [HAD] + [PAST PARTICIPLE]

take note :  The Past Participle is used for ALL perfect forms of the verb
1 Present Perfect      eg: I have taken
2 Past Perfect            eg: I had taken
3 Future Perfect         eg: I will have taken
4 Conditional Perfect  eg: I would have taken

C.  Present Continuous -------> [AM / IS / ARE] + [VERB+ing]
D.  Past Continuous       --------> [WAS / WERE] + [VERB+ing]

get this first, i'll be back for more.

nak menanya sikit... ada beza ke "compared to" dengan "compared with"?... kalau ada beza, nak tanya lagi ...masa bila nak guna "compared to", dan masa bila nak guna "compared with"?... atau antara "compared to" dgn "compared with" ni ada yang grammar tak betul, yg tak patut digunakan?... mintak tulun turunkan ilmu

seribulan

Hi newbie,

People usually says...

Compared to is used to show similarity.

Compared with is to show difference.

Originally posted by seribulan at 9-10-2005 09:55 AM
Hi newbie,

People usually says...

Compared to is used to show similarity.

Compared with is to show difference.

thank u so much sis... errmm, can i ask u one more thing, if you dont mind...err,err can u give me examples for both cases

seribulan

Compared to is used to show similarity.

I love compact cars but I loved Kelisa compared to Kancil...

Compared with is to show difference.

Kelisa is not so fuel-consuming compared with Kembara.

mayutaka

HI!!!!

Got Q here...

1) this is da' scenario...there were an empty seat next to someone.Ok, da' Q is how to ask that person (in proper way) whether dat seat ada org atau tak????....pls list possible dialog/script/answer

hehehehe...newbie here at (language) section....my english also bad/poor....huhuhu...anyway thank in advance those who'r going to reply my Q