MO was not illiterate as claimed by muslims

Debmey

Originally posted by samerosie at 2005-1-10 10:53 AM:


My late grandmother (a single parent) could not tell an alphabet to another, yet she sold kuih to earn her living.  Her children used to take the kuih baskets around Bangsar on foot and will ge ...

Was mo a kuih seller?

Debmey

kennkid,

if i memorise my Bible today, does it mean it is passed down corruption free? You see how silly muslim cliams are?

muslims can claim that the Quran is corrupt free if they are able to produced thousands of manuscripts from teh past like Christians do.

peace

Originally posted by Debmey at 10-1-2005 11:26 AM:


Was mo a kuih seller?

I was making a point.  She was illiterate but still tell numbers and make equations.  

For your info, not any tom dick and harry printing company can print the Quran.  Here's a copy of the procedure of Quran printing from the Goverment of Pakistan:-

http://www.pakistan.gov.pk/relig ... tion-holy-quran.pdf

Or for your further info, you can go to the King Fahd Holy Quran Printing Complex website in order to understand the stage by stage procedure in printing and recording the Quran.

http://www.qurancomplex.org/Disp ... p;f=faqs_eng001.htm

An extract from the FAQ pages

Q4.  Is the task of the Complex confined to printing books, recording tapes and producing audio CDs?
A4.   This is what some people think about the Complex. But in fact, the Complex, besides all these tasks, is a research institution comprising a number of academic and specialized research centers serving the Qur抋nic Sciences in all aspects; its interpretation, the translations of its meanings into different languages and refuting the allegations and false claims raised against the Glorious Qur抋n. The Complex also shoulders the responsibility of serving the Sunnah of the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him).

It is worth mentioning that the Complex comprises the following Centers and Committees;

The Complex抯 Supreme Authority

The Complex抯 Academic Council

The Qur抋nic Studies Center

The Translations Center

The Center for Serving the Prophetic Sunnah and Sirah

The Center of Islamic Studies and Researches

The Academic Committee for Revising the Mushaf

The Committee Supervising the Recordings

The Translations Council

The Consultative Committee

A distinguished group of Muslim scholars from different Muslim countries work in these Committees in their respective specializations

Originally posted by KENNKID at 10-1-2005 10:04 AM:


I don't know whats the problem and whats your problem. You don't know enough about Islam and Muslims to even know that that there are millions of Muslims t ...

since you know the koran so much...

do you memorize the whole koran?

show me one human being that can memorize the whole koran...from the first dot to the last...without any changes, not even a dot like you always claimed...

Originally posted by ashna at 10-1-2005 10:48 AM:


yes they can and a lot of them. they are called hafiz. do you memorize the whole bible? ;)

and they can memorize the whole koran, including each and every dot?

i'm not the one claiming to memorize the whole bible...

snipersnake

Originally posted by me at 9-1-2005 05:45 PM:


since you know the koran so much...

do you memorize the whole koran?

show me one human being that can memorize the whole koran...from the first dot to the last...without any changes, not  ...

go and see USTAZ HARUN DIN, USTAZ HASSAN AL HAFIZ..or better still..come here UIA..come la..and see for your self...u can even check thier memorization

snipersnake

Originally posted by me at 9-1-2005 05:47 PM:


and they can memorize the whole koran, including each and every dot?

i'm not the one claiming to memorize the whole bible...

EVERYTHING.

Originally posted by me at 10-1-2005 11:45 AM:


show me one human being that can memorize the whole koran...from the first dot to the last...without any changes, not  ...

Dato' Abu Hassan Din Al-Hafiz (Religious Officer, Istana Negara)
Ustaz Dr Harun Din Al-Hafiz

Originally posted by samerosie at 10-1-2005 11:56 AM:


Dato' Abu Hassan Din Al-Hafiz (Religious Officer, Istana Negara)
Ustaz Dr Harun Din Al-Hafiz

wow...they must be superhuman, and they memorized each and every word and dot...

Originally posted by me at 10-1-2005 12:19 PM:


wow...they must be superhuman, and they memorized each and every word and dot...

Oh yes they are.  You have a problem with that?

ashna

Originally posted by me at 10-1-2005 12:19 PM:


wow...they must be superhuman, and they memorized each and every word and dot...

whether you believe it or not, yes they are.but it doesn't mean they are superhuman.

can you memorize the whole science book...every dot, every picture, words, every lines, every number? normal people won't...

ashna

Originally posted by me at 10-1-2005 12:35 PM:
can you memorize the whole science book...every dot, every picture, words, every lines, every number? normal people won't...

honey, anything is possible. what about truth.8 claimed he has some kind of visions of the future? is it possible for human being to have visions??

i thought he said prediction...

ashna

Originally posted by me at 10-1-2005 01:01 PM:
i thought he said prediction...

no claimed he has visions.

vixen

Predictions based on visions?

Originally posted by vixen at 10-1-2005 01:34 PM:
Predictions based on visions?

..that he says come to him when he writes in this forum.

Debmey

A few questionable facts abt the claim of incorruptibility of the Quran.

1. the span of time between muhamad's death and the actual compilation of the quran.
Actual evidence of a quran came abt only 200 - 300 years after Muhamad's death.
There is nothing to corrobarate muslims claim that Uthman compiled the Quran during his reign as caliph.

2. lack of records during muhamad's time.
Muhamad made no effort to compile the quran during his lifetime. Had the quran been God's word, why would Muhamad not been divinely guided to do so during his time?

3. Variability of quran verses even during Muhamad's time.

    Bukhari: vol. 6, hadith 514, p. 482; book 61

    Narrated Umar bin Al-Khattab:

    I heard Hisham bin Hakim reciting Surat Al-Furqan during the lifetime of Allah's Apostle and I listen to his recitation and noticed that he recited in several different ways which Allah's Apostle had not taught me. I was about to jump over him during his prayer, but I controlled my temper and when he had completed his prayer, I put his upper garment around his neck and seized him by it and said, "Who taught you this Surat which I heard you reciting ?" He replied, "Allah's Apostle taught it to me". I said, "You have told a lie, for Allah's Apostle taught it to me in a different way from yours". So I dragged him to Allah's Apostle and said, "I heard this person reciting Surat Al-Furqan in a way which you haven't taught me!". On that Allah's Apostle said, "Release him (Umar) recite, O Hisham!" Then he recited in the same way I heard him reciting. Then Allah's Apostle said, "It was revealed in this way", and added, "Recite, O Umar", I recited it as he had taught me. Allah's Apostle then said, "It was revealed in this way. This Qur'an has been revealed to be recited in seven different ways, so recite of it whichever is easier for you."

    Bukhuri: vol. 4, hadith 682, book 56

    Narrated Ibn Mas'ud:

    I heard a person reciting a (Quranic) Verse in a certain way, and I had heard the Prophet reciting the same Verse in a different way. So I took him to the Prophet and informed him of that but I noticed the sign of disapproval on his face, and then he said, "Both of you are correct, so don't differ, for the nations before you differed, so they were destroyed."

The above hadiths clearly shows that Muhammad allowed some variation regarding the reciting of the Qur'an. So how can muslims say that quran is that it has come directly to us from Allah through Muhammad with no other human intervention or editing? Thus it is claimed that it was Muhammad who standardized what is in the Quran?

That has been answered again and again.  Scroll back to http://forum.cari.com.my/viewthread.php?tid=137281&fpage=4


Posted by kyas

Compilation of the Qur'an

During the life of the Prophet (saas) (570-632 CE)

The Prophet (saas) used to recite the Qur'an before angel Jibreel (Gabriel) once every Ramadan, but he recited it twice (in the same order we have today) in the last Ramadan before his death. Jibreel also taught the Prophet (saas) the seven modes of recitation. Each verse received was recited by the Prophet, and its location relative to other verses and surahs was identified by him. The verses were written by scribes, selected by the Prophet, on any suitable object - the leaves of trees, pieces of wood, parchment or leather, flat stones, and shoulder blades. Scribes included Ali Ibn Abi Talib, Mu'awiyah Ibn Abi Sufyan, Ubey Ibn Ka'ab, Zayed Ibn Thabit. Some of the companions wrote the Qur'an for their own use. Several hundred companions memorized the Qur'an by heart.

ashna

2. lack of records during muhamad's time.  Muhamad made no effort to compile the quran during his lifetime. Had the quran been God's word, why would Muhamad not been divinely guided to do so during his time?

can you ask God about it?
thanks in advance. ;)