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Originally posted by Oreng at 2005-2-1 08:30 AM:
One question is, who created the sin ? If it is your god alone that create the sin, and he alone that able to inflict the sin on man, then it is his responsibility alone to dispel the sin, no need to involve man (by asking man to whacked him) !
Another question is, if your think god loves you, why he make everybody carries the sin while it was Adam alone who did the wrong ? |
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Moreover, since god created sin, why then he the one take the bashing ? it looks like he took the bashing as punishment for his mistake, not for love of man. Weird way to expressing love !! |
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yes, i do think the same way too...
god is almighty.. nothing is beyond his knowledge.
he creates everything on this world...
he diminished things that he dont like..
he can make human happy or suffer...
but, when it comes about sin, god is powerless...
what a poor god!
then, i like to ask: in term of what did the sin vanished? i mean, how do we measure the cleanliness after the sin had ve vaporished? |
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Originally posted by Oreng at 1-2-2005 01:41 PM:
Moreover, since god created sin, why then he the one take the bashing ? it looks like he took the bashing as punishment for his mistake, not for love of man. Weird way to expressing love !!
No, God did not created sins, at least not in christianity. God is holy. God gave all creatures the free will, that they would be able to make choices of their own, to obey God or to disobey God. If you read or heard about an angel called Lucifer, sinless until he rebel against God. Or Adam and Eve were also sinless until the serpent (devil) deceived Eve and chose to disobey God. So sins are not God creation.
But God's nature is holy, and He will not let sins enter His kingdom. No matter how much good deed we (christians) do, no matter how much we pray, we are still sinful and cannot please the holy and infinite God. But God is also merciful. That抯 why he sends Jesus down to earth to take the punishment for the sins of man. I believe nightlord did explain about repentance before. This verse explains it all;
John 3:16
"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life." |
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If it is not god who created sin, then theres is another being that can create something which your god can't !! Meaning your god is not a complete creator !! |
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Not sure what are tring to say here. In my opionion the Holy God cannot created sin. Evil is another matter which i think is a different thing. Maybe someone else have a different point of view? |
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hi divineponytail..
as you said above, god gave us free will...
it is god who created everything on this universe, including sin.. where punishment will be given.
free will (or our own desire) that drives us to what we do now... but god almighty already knew it from the very beginning (until the end).
if god do not know what will happened next, he's simply not a god. that's very easy to understand... because nothing is beyond his knowledge.. that's why when we do bad, we will do our repentence to god...
who else can diminish our sin, only its creator can, right? |
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And after yu repent, yu go sin again. Does allah accept that sort of repentance? And yu manipulate allah by 'repentin' again.
You see how silly this allah is? |
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Originally posted by Debmey at 2-2-2005 03:48 AM:
And after yu repent, yu go sin again. Does allah accept that sort of repentance? And yu manipulate allah by 'repentin' again.
You see how silly this allah is?
hums.. what about christian themselves?
dont they go repent?
from what we have discussed before...
christian can do bad, as long as they believe in jesus..
seems that jesus has put imunization from sin onto christian.
that would be even better for you deb...
what somebody repent, it is up to god, whether he wants to accept or not. he's the owner...
when he repent, and if he does bad again, and repent again.. it is much better than did not repent at all...
since, god created free will.. he knows everything in advanced.
you probably not suitable with this thread deb.. where we here try to be good.. but, from your bitterness, i can see... you like to put flame.. and bring flame whereever you go! |
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There is a difference. Christian understand the love nad grace of God. Thats why out of God's love, we become better people. Its a totally diffrenet motivation for Muslims, thats why Muslims always fail. Also, there is this hatred for mankind, especially against non Muslims that is engrained in Islam, that doesn't help Muslism behave good either. |
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debmey has started to start another flame again..
from being a discussion... debmey try to make this forum.. as if "this is mine!"...
it is you who have failed...
try to answer other question better...
this is tough for you... i think, it did not fit you at all.. how could you have love and grace, when you still talk bad about others.... probably, that's christian teaching.. but, for what worth should i care! |
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Originally posted by Debmey at 1-2-2005 11:30 AM:
i'm not a rc.
It is very funny to me to receive an excuse remark from you by simply telling me that you are not RC, same excuse given by T8. Just because you dont belong to the same doctrine you ppl choose to be ignorant!
Meanwhile none of RC give any explaination. They chose to be muted!
Even more funny to me when I saw christian against christian fighting the debate in this forum between the oneness believer like sonny, twoness & trinity like you & T8! |
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Originally posted by DivinePonytail at 2005-2-2 09:08 AM:
Not sure what are tring to say here. In my opionion the Holy God cannot created sin. Evil is another matter which i think is a different thing. Maybe someone else have a different point of view? |
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Originally posted by Debmey at 2005-2-2 09:48 AM:
And after yu repent, yu go sin again. Does allah accept that sort of repentance? And yu manipulate allah by 'repentin' again.
You see how silly this allah is? |
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Originally posted by Debmey at 2-2-2005 09:48 AM:
And after yu repent, yu go sin again. Does allah accept that sort of repentance? And yu manipulate allah by 'repentin' again.
You see how silly this allah is?
Our god is not as silly as what you ppl making fool of yourself by potraying how silly is your god! what you've described above is what you ppl practise. you ppl do sin and you think your repentance is accepted by simply making confession to your pastor. Who the heck is the pastor, is he a god messenger in delivering the message of your repentance? if you ppl continue make confession through the pastor, that makes him holier than the prophets!
The way we repent is different from your repentance style. Once we commit with sin and we regret about it we'll do what we called "taubat nasuha" in a way we promise ourself with god as a witness that we'll never commit again. |
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its no wonder yu ppl sin so much.
peace |
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Originally posted by greekgod at 2-2-2005 09:42 AM:
hi divineponytail..
as you said above, god gave us free will...
it is god who created everything on this universe, including sin.. where punishment will be given.
free will (or our own des ...
yes, God created everything including sin.
And what we do is our own free will.
Do God leave the men doing according his free will without any guidance?
No, when he created Adam, He implanted in Adam minds some sort of intelligent. And the noblest quality of men is to be able to learn and gain knowledge and passes the knowledges towards his decendent.
The implant of some sort of knowledge or wisdom is not impossible as we can reflect to other creature for example the ants that can build a very huge building to compare its own size and put everything in order and many more.
According to Islam, Adam has been given the knowledge not to eat the forbidden fruit inside the Paradise. Adam too had be given the warn not to be persuaded by satan that is a very clear enemy of mankind. Adam has this knowledge already and he understood.
But years pass by and the serpent influence them and by deceit, Adam broke the prohibition. As Adam, a human with the quality to forget, broke this prohibition and God manifest to them (Adam and Eve) their shame. And this particular event, Adam knows that he had wrong himself by breaking the prohibition given to him earlier. And his heart full with despair and fell very much sorry to himself and his wife. But God the Almighty had not left both of them alone, God give them knowledge to repent for their wrong doing. And they repent and God accepted their repentance. As they are descendant down to the earth is always being their objective. To become vicegerent on the earth.
so dear, from my POV, didn't this story give us so much thing to reflect. The story shows the essential knowledge for the first men on how to live a life as a servant to God Al Mighty in the earth.
Adam has been equipt with the knowledge what he should do and what he should not do. We too have the knowledges as we gain through time.
Adam also has been warn that satan is the number one enemy of mankind. satan will do everything to influence man to trangress. And we also know this very well.
But Adam with his human quality tends to forget and get influence to do wrong, broke the prohibition. We too have this quality and we too do something wrong.
God with His Divine knowledge then give Adam the knowledge to repent, Adam repent and God accept his repentence as He is the Most Gracious and the Most Merciful. As we too equipt with the knowledge, as human created by God the Almighty we too should repent with sincere heart, we admit that we do wrong, and promise that we wont do the bad thing again, and hope that God to will forgive us, as he is the Most Gracious the Most Merciful. From my POV, this story is very essential as guidance for all of the time. |
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Originally posted by Debmey at 2-2-2005 11:22 AM:
its no wonder yu ppl sin so much.
peace
Not as much as you ppl do the sin by simply making your religion light and easy and not as tough as islam and some of your god's law u ppl just ignore eventhough it stated in the bible. |
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greekgod, sakinah..
I do respect your stand saying God created sins. Me too bellieve created all things in this universe. However i feel sins is not of them because it will be againts His nature. Holy god will not create sins. We mention about free will that have been given to man. Man with their free will chose to disobey God, and man will sin againts God. Thus sins is not God creation.
[ Last edited by DivinePonytail on 2-2-2005 at 11:43 AM ] |
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Originally posted by Oreng at 2-2-2005 10:54 AM:
I think you and christians confuse between 'Creation of sin' and 'committing sin'. No wonder, you become christians because you dont understand simple language, easily twisted by people (like debme ...
Then i ask you what is sin? How do you define sin. Sin is anything that againts God's Law or the will of God. Example when you lie to your parents, then you have sinned because God said not to lie. Did God created "that sin"? |
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Author
Post time 1-2-2005 09:43 PM
