Stupid way of showing love...

Debmey

Originally posted by sakinahmawaddah at 2005-2-5 10:16 PM:


if the baby is not baptist, will the baby go to heaven.

Yes.

Debmey

Originally posted by sakinahmawaddah at 2005-2-5 10:24 PM:


how human inherited this sin spritually?
As supposed Jesus had been crucified, that mean all sins had become pure, why human still inherit the sin?

You haven't answered my question. Where is this term 'original sin' written in the Bible. Lets establish that first before we move on shall we?

sakinahmawaddah

as you see I'm not quoting anything 'bout original sin from the Bible.
I'm learning bout tis from my Christian frien, DivinePonyTail. He/She mentioned about tis at page 8.
is there any contradiction, hope you clarify.
If Bible never mentioned about this (original sin), why then Jesus have to be crucified?
I'm learning my friend.

Debmey

Did the Bible say that Jesus sacrificed for some original sin somewhere? Where? Where is that written?

I know you are learning, but you gotta get a clear picture of the pre-conceived assumptions that you harbour first, otherwise you will never learn.

You can PM me if yu truly want to learn cos Kennkid & sonny will interfere for any Muslim who wants to learn. They are scared.

[ Last edited by Debmey on 5-2-2005 at 11:35 PM ]

Baiduri Othman

Originally posted by Debmey at 2005-2-5 11:33 PM:
Did the Bible say that Jesus sacrificed for some original sin somewhere? Where? Where is that written?

I know you are learning, but you gotta get a clear picture of the pre-conceived assumption ...

My response:-

You don't have to mention Kennkid, Fuzzman or any other Muslim nicks here. Just respond! That's all you shd do rather than mumbling.

sakinahmawaddah

i dont think that way.
Is you are truthful, you can also explain me in this thread.
So that many can learn.
As you can see this is a common assumption made to Christianity.

How can DPonyTail was so sure about the original sins?
Then you say that it was not written in the Bible?
So, why contradict each other?

Debmey

many don't want to learn and many don't want you to learn.
If you are truthful, yu will do what is necessary.

I am testing your sincerity, what have yu got to lose if yu are sincere? if you don't really want to learn, no problem. You won't one way or another.

Baiduri Othman

Originally posted by Debmey at 2005-2-5 11:48 PM:
many don't want to learn and many don't want you to learn.
If you are truthful, yu will do what is necessary.

I am testing your sincerity, what have yu got to lose if yu are sincere? if you don ...

My response:-

Actually Debmey knows nuts abt this Original Sin. That's why he's diverting the discussion to SINCERITY! :lol

sakinahmawaddah

and i'm also test your sincerity.
And what yu got to lose if yu are sincere?
Like what Kenkidd and bro Fuzman had done before, they are very broad to talk about what they believe, despite having so much acussation and hate from other.
The question here is willing to share the knowledge.
At the end of the day, let the person himself decide.

[ Last edited by sakinahmawaddah on 6-2-2005 at 01:34 PM ]

Debmey

What have i got to lose? Casting pearls to swines my fren.

Matthew 7:6
揇o not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces.

sakinahmawaddah

after all what you say about sincerety is not sincere at all!
and all will know you true color.

Oreng

Christians are odd. There are many secrecies they want to hold, but actually the secret they hold is the 'unsure' that they have. They are in doubt about their own so called religion. There is a verse in the Quran which says that those people (non-believers) are actually in doubt about what they believe.

Debmey cant even explain something which is supposed to be very simple. many times he did that.

In Islam, there is no secrecy. Knowledge must be told to others. So much difference with christianity.

sakinahmawaddah

Originally posted by sakinahmawaddah at 5-2-2005 11:44 PM:
i dont think that way.
Is you are truthful, you can also explain me in this thread.
So that many can learn.
As you can see this is a common assumption made to Christianity.

How can DPonyTail was so sure about the original sins?
Then you say that it was not written in the Bible?
So, why contradict each other?
How can DPonyTail  ...

I think you avoiding me regarding this.
Can anyone answer on the original sins? which DPT contradict with Debmey? TQ

Oreng

Originally posted by DivinePonytail at 2005-2-5 11:10 AM:
Oreng i think you misunderstood the meaning of rules and sins.

True that God create rules or guidelines, what is right or wrong or good or bad etc.

But when we break those rules, or when we do what God forbid us to do, sin is "created" thus making sin comes from us.

Am i making sense here...

Tell me what you think.

Rules and sin are inter-related. Sin could not exist without rules. Who then set the rules if not God, right ? Without God setting any rules, there would not be any 'sin'.

You say when we break those rules, or when we do what God forbid us to do, sin is "created" thus making sin comes from us. Here , it is more appropriate if you replace the word 'created' with 'committing'. And, I repeat, without God setting any rule, there would not be any rules broken and we would not commit any sin. I hope are getting more clear.

So, first God set the rules. God say if you break the rule, you sin. If man does not break the rule, man does not sin. Now, I think you would agree with this. So, if God is the one who set the rule and determine what is a sin and what is not, is it logical that God require man to torture him to death to eliminate the sin ?

DivinePonytail

Originally posted by Oreng at 7-2-2005 02:07 PM:
Rules and sin are inter-related. Sin could not exist without rules. Who then set the rules if not God, right ? Without God setting any rules, there would not be any 'sin'.

You say when we bre ...

Thats a good argument. But notice that you said, sin could not "exist" without rules, or to put it another way around, sin "exist" because of the rules. For me, by God's rules, He only created the scenario where sins is posible. I think what you're trying to say is God "create" sin by His rules. But from my point of view sin is "created" by us when we broke the rules. I hope you can see my logic here.
Other's opinions maybe?

So, first God set the rules. God say if you break the rule, you sin. If man does not break the rule, man does not sin. Now, I think you would agree with this. So, if God is the one who set the rule and determine what is a sin and what is not, is it logical that God require man to torture him to death to eliminate the sin ?

I assume when you said "..is it logical that God require man to torture him to death to eliminate the sin.." you talking about Jesus, right? Firstly, i don't believe Jesus was God, but the son of God. You have to ask other christians (trinity) for that answer.

Secondly, talking about logic, i ask you, is it logical that God create sin, so we can sin then repent to Him?

to DPT
do you believe Jesus, Son of God crucified?
If yes, why?
I hope you'll clarify coz what i've found here different understanding with different school (trinity, twoness, oneness).
The question here is not to divert the topic, but to clarify the word sins.
TQ

DivinePonytail

Dear clean_script,

Yes, i do believe in Jesus, Son of God.
Why?  Its all in the scripture, his miraculous birth, his teachings and purpose in this world and the fulfillment of the prophecy (crucifixion).

John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Oreng

Originally posted by DivinePonytail at 2005-2-7 04:38 PM:
i ask you, is it logical that God create sin, so we can sin then repent to Him.

When we sin, means we break the God's rules, that's why it is logical that we repent to Him. It is not logical that man have to kill God for reason that man break God's rules !! Absurd, right ?

DivinePonytail

Originally posted by Oreng at 8-2-2005 08:57 AM:
When we sin, means we break the God's rules, that's why it is logical that we repent to Him. It is not logical that man have to kill God for reason that man break God's rules !! Absurd, right ?

No, i asked you " is it logical if God create sin...", not "is it logical when we broke the rules...".
See the difference. And we're not talking about Jesus being God here. We haven't finish with the meaning of sins.

Oreng

Ok, put is this way : God create the rules. God does not create sin. Man also does not create sin, but man commit sin. Without the rules set by God, man could not have committing sin and the so-called sin would not have meaning. I dont agree that man commit sin is equal to man create sin. man could not create sin because he does not set the rules. Is it okay for you ?