[MERGED]-Debmey: SHOW PROOF THAT PROPHET MOHAMMAD IS A PAEDOPHILE?

FaithHealer3

Originally posted by kid at 2004-4-17 09:27 PM:
I already explain the point and you are forbid yourselves to accept, its your lost.

The points are there for all to see... and its from muslim sources.
So far its all stacked-up against Muhammad.

Originally posted by kid at 2004-4-17 09:27 PM:
Your brain has very sexually imaginative... if prophet has passion for women why he marry WIDOWS instead of VIRGINS? all his wives after Khatijah were WIDOWS except Aishah, prophet marry WIDOWS who have difficulties in their life...to save their children, to raise their status, support them and that's what prophet did, but according to your lust imagination all was sex purpose and I think it fits your brain.

Lets think slowly first... why did those women become widows in the first place?
ok it shouldn't be difficultlah... its obviously because of war.
Whose war? also easy... Muhammad's war ( in the name of God)
Man fight and die... both side suffer casualities.
Most of the wars, Muhammad's team wins big time.  
Result of war...  WIDOWs.

If Muhammad didn't start wars and kill ppl, there would not have been so many widows. Common sense lah... Its Muhammads fault.  

Killing the husbands and then marrying the widow is NOT a noble thing to do. Its quite a sick thing to do... yes or not?

Originally posted by kid at 2004-4-17 09:27 PM:
you anti-Muslim always using Hadith.. especially weak and fake Hadith.. then you add your own wild imaginative thinking...

weak and fake :hmm:
those hadith that i quote was from authentic hadiths... Sahih Bukhari mah... very trusted muslim dude.

You see, muslims of the past don't see anything wrong with what they did. Fighting and killing and taking other peoples property as booties of war, turning the captive of war into slaves or selling them. The ancient muslims didn't find anything wrong with what they did and they boast arrogantly in the hadiths. :malu:

Lets look at a girl called Safiya, who became a widow thanks to Muhammad. You know her right?
another hadith SAHIH... by BUKHARI.

The Prophet stayed for three days between Khaibar and Medina, and there he consummated his marriage to Safiyya bint Huyai. I invited the Muslims to the wedding banquet in which neither meat nor bread was offered. He ordered for leather dining-sheets to be spread, and dates, dried yoghurt and butter were laid on it, and that was the Prophet's wedding banquet. The Muslims wondered, "Is she (Saffiyya) considered as his wife or his slave girl?" Then they said, "If he orders her to veil herself, she will be one of the mothers of the Believers; but if he does not order her to veil herself, she will be a slave girl. So when the Prophet proceeded from there, he spared her a space behind him (on his she-camel) and put a screening veil between her and the people... ref Sahih Bukhari 7.062.022

Muslims wondering? Even after Muhammad had her ahem... will she be a slave or a wife? Why would the muslims wonder? :hmm:

Without hadith sahih... Islam wouldn't be Islam...


[ Last edited by FaithHealer3 on 19-4-2004 at 12:39 AM ]

sonny~~

sum more of MODERATOR bro deb***sfe's cursin, vulgarity, spammin, no substance etc  ;)

Originally posted by Debmey at 2004-4-14 02:48 PM:
OK, lets put it in perspective.

Mo's first wife was a Catholic. Mo married her for her money and they had a Christian marriage. This explains why he never took a second wife until after  ...

We also read from the hadiths that Aisha was not psychologically nor emotionally prepared for the marriage and also had no idea what was happening at that time. She was still playing with toys just moments before Mo had sex with her for the first time. Imagine how much pain and stress it would have been for a nine year old to be
raped by an old maniac.  

classic example of MODERATOR bro deb***sfe's abusve words aginst muslims prophet mohammad who has done him no wrong.  read the forum rules.

n ur lyin, cursin, vulgar, spammin, hecklin, no subtance MODERATORship is a ticket for SONNY to say
jesus son of 3 headed trinity God is impotent in curbin rabbis n trinity bishops indulgence towards 3 years old babies n 7 years old girls.  right?

btw who gonna deduct MODERATOR bro deb***sfe's credicts for cursin, vulgarity, spammin etc?  any intelligent response from CARI authority, MODERATORS etc out there?  helloooooo.  hehe  

peace

http://forum.cari.com.my/viewthr ... ge=1&sid=zQ1OVf
Rules for the Religion board

Any posts containing defamation of, insults, ridicule or making a mockery
- Allah
- His Prophets and Messengers
- Any other religious practices, personalities, places, items etc which are not stated in the above points, and are deemed sensitive by other members will not be tolerated. Showing any disrespect towards them is not acceptable under any circumstances.

sonny~~

Originally posted by FaithHealer3 at 2004-4-17 04:52 PM:


:lol
Thankin' him for cursin' your Nabi Isa...


Thats a common fallacy amoung muslimslah... you ppl read hadiths right?

Abu Bakar already was like a brother t ...

commonsense tells u muslims dont believe jesus is God.  hence me words aginst jesus trinity God the son means nuthin to 'em.  likewise unitarian christians; they dont believe jesus is God.  right?

on the other hand trinity n twoness christians believe jesus is God.  hence me words about jesus trinity God the son means somethin to 'em.  right?

n commonsense tells u me words r to reciprocate MODERATOR bro deb***sfe's cursin vulgar words aginst prophet mohammad who has done him no wrong.  right?

an eye for an eye
a heckle for a heckle.  right?  

peace

Debmey

Thanks for keeping this thread up sonny.And yu never dealt with any of teh salient points that i brought up.

cheers

aminah

for laknatullah debmey....

Al-Baqara

(6) As to those who reject Faith, it is the same to them whether thou warn them or do not warn them; they will not believe.

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(7) Allah hath set a seal on their hearts and on their hearing, and on their eyes is a veil; great is the penalty they (incur).
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(8) Of the people there are some who say: "We believe in Allah and the Last Day;" but they do not (really) believe.

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(9) Fain would they deceive Allah and those who believe, but they only deceive themselves, and realise (it) not!

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(10) In their hearts is a disease; and Allah has increased their disease: And grievous is the penalty they (incur), because they are false (to themselves).

Originally posted by aminah at 2004-4-21 04:27:
for laknatullah debmey....

Al-Baqara

(6) As to those who reject Faith, it is the same to them whether thou warn them or do not warn them; they will not believe.

--------------------------- ...

Salam aminah,

TP berharap anda tidak akan berputus asa dengan asakkan, hinaan dan sindiran dari pembenci-pembenci Islam ini. Sebenarnya mereka-mereka ini tidak mendapat pertunjuk dari Allah SWT. Mereka-mereka ini boleh kita kategorikan sebagai keturunan Abu Jahal atau Abu Lahab.

Teruskan perjuangan anda.

WAllahu A'lam bi As-Sawab!
Wasalaamu Alaikum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuh.

Non-Islam claims that in Islam, women are inferior to men BECAUSE;
- a man can marry up to 4 wives, a woman can marry only one man
- a man's share of inheritance is bigger than a woman's
- a man can marry a non-Muslim, a woman cannot
- women must wear the veil

This widely held misconception does not remotely follow from the reasons given. The first and most important observation to make about the popular question "Are men and women equal?" is that it is a badly-formed, unanswerable question.

The problem which many people conveniently ignore is that "EQUAL" is not defined.

This is a very critical point: the equality must be specified with respect to some measurable property. For example, women on average are superior to men if we ask who is shorter in height than the other ("Growth and Development", Encyclopaedia Britannica, 1992).
Women are also superior on average if we ask whom do children bond to deeper, mothers or fathers.
Women are also superior on average if we ask who has a tendency to socialize more.
On the other hand, men are superior on average if we ask who is taller in height than the other.
And so on: every question can be turned around, and more importantly these are properties which are irrelevant.

What then, is the really important property which we are worried about in terms of gender equality?
Naturally, from the point of view of the Qur'an and Sunnah, the obvious important property is who is dearer to Allah, men or women?
This question is emphatically answered in the Qur'an (translation);
"If any do deeds of righteousness - be they male or female - and have faith, they will enter Paradise, and not the least injustice will be done to them."

or in Malay translation;
"Dan sesiapa yang mengerjakan amal soleh, dari lelaki atau perempuan, sedang dia beriman, maka mereka itu akan masuk Syurga dan mereka pula tidak akan dianiaya (atau dikurangkan balasannya) sedikitpun."[Qur'an 4:124]

and,
"For Muslim men and women, for believing men and women, for devout men and women, for truthful men and women, for men and women who are patient and constant, for men and women who humble themselves, for men and women who give in charity, for men and women who fast, for men and women who guard their chastity, and for men and women who engage much in Allah's praise, for them has Allah prepared forgiveness and great reward."

or in Malay translation;
"Sesungguhnya orang-orang lelaki yang Islam serta orang-orang perempuan yang Islam dan orang-orang lelaki yang beriman serta orang-orang perempuan yang beriman dan orang-orang lelaki yang taat serta orang-orang perempuan yang taat dan orang-orang lelaki yang benar serta orang-orang perempuan yang benar, dan orang-orang lelaki yang sabar serta orang-orang perempuan yang sabar dan orang-orang lelaki yang merendah diri (kepada Allah) serta orang-orang perempuan yang merendah diri (kepada Allah) dan orang-orang lelaki yang bersedekah serta orang-orang perempuan yang bersedekah dan orang-orang lelaki yang berpuasa serta orang-orang perempuan yang berpuasa dan orang-orang lelaki yang memelihara kehormatannya serta orang-orang perempuan yang memelihara kehormatannya dan orang-orang lelaki yang menyebut nama Allah banyak-banyak serta orang-orang perempuan yang menyebut nama Allah banyak-banyak, Allah telah menyediakan bagi mereka semuanya keampunan dan pahala yang besar."[Qur'an 33:35]

Originally posted by Terong Pipit at 2004-4-21 09:13:
continuation...

The Qur'an and Sunnah repeat over and over again that Allah only favors one person over another based on that person's awareness, consciousness, fear, love, and hope of Allah (the Arabic word is difficult to translate: Taqwa). All other criteria are excluded: gender, ethnic group, country, ancestry, etc.
Given that Allah does not favor one gender over the other in His attention to us (and it helps to remember that Allah is neither male nor female), we can now address the differences between the genders in Islam. First, men and women are not the same as we know. The Creator states in the Qur'an (translation);
"When she was delivered, she said: "O my Lord! behold! I am delivered of a female child!" - and Allah knew best what she brought forth - "and no wise is the male like the female. I have named her Maryam, and I commend her and her offspring to Thy protection from the Evil One, the Rejected."[Qur'an 3:36]

or in Malay translation;
"Maka apabila dia melahirkannya, berkatalah dia: Wahai Tuhanku! Sesungguhnya aku telah melahirkan seorang anak perempuan (sedang yang aku harap-harapkan ialah anak lelaki) dan Allah memang mengetahui akan apa yang dilahirkannya itu dan memanglah tidak sama anak lelaki dengan anak perempuan dan bahawasanya aku telah menamakannya Mariam dan aku perlindungkan dia dengan peliharaanMu, demikian juga zuriat keturunannya, dari Godaan syaitan yang kena rejam (yang dikutuk dan disingkirkan)."

Men and women are different in their composition, and in their responsibilities under Islam. However, both are bound by obligations to one another, especially the following important one which must be understood in any discussion on men and women.

to be continued...

[ Last edited by Terong Pipit on 21-4-2004 at 09:26 AM ]

Debmey

Too bad, the points and evidence brought uop by me are still not being dealt with.

peace

aminah

is it?...i don't see when u will accept the true facts....all that i can see is u will always say bad things/argue with people who does not agree with u by twisting facts.....

Some critics of Islam, either because they are not aware of the facts about the marriages of the Prophet Muhammad, upon him be peace, or because they are not honest and objective about those facts, have reviled the Prophet as a self-indulgent libertine.
They have accused him of character failings, which are hardly compatible with being of average virtue, let alone with being a prophet and God抯 last Messenger and the best model for all mankinds to follow.
However, if the facts are simply recounted-and they are easily available from scores of biographies and well-authenticated accounts of his sayings and actions-it becomes clear that the Prophet lived the most strictly disciplined life, that his marriages were a part of that discipline, a part of the many, many burdens that he bore as God抯 last Messenger.

The reasons behind the Prophet抯 several marriages are various, but even in the privateness of some of those reasons, they all had to do with his role as the leader of the new Muslim ummah, guiding his people towards the norms and values of Islam. In the following pages we shall try to explain some of those reasons and, in so doing, demonstrate that the charges leveled against the Prophet on this count are as vile and indecent as they are utterly false.

The Prophet, not at that time called to his future mission, first married at the age of twenty-five. Given the cultural environment, in which he lived, not to mention the climate and other considerations such as his youth, it is remarkable that he should have enjoyed a reputation for perfect chastity as well as integrity and trustworthiness generally. As soon as he was called to the prophethood he acquired enemies who did not hesitate to publicise false calumnies against him-but not once did any of them (and in their jahiliyya (ignorance) they were not scrupulous men) dare to invent against him what no-one could have believed. It is important to realise that his life was founded upon chastity and self-discipline from the outset, and so remained.
At the age of twenty-five, then, and in the prime of life, Muhammad, upon him be peace, married Khadijah, a woman much his senior in years. This marriage was very high and exceptional in the eyes of the Prophet and God. For twenty-three years, his life with Khadijah was a period of uninterrupted contentment in perfect fidelity. In the eighth year of prophethood, however, Khadijah passed away and the Prophet was once again single, as he had been until the age of twenty-five, though now with children. His enemies cannot deny, but are forced to admit that, during all these long years, they cannot find a single flaw in his moral character. During the lifetime of Khadijah, the Prophet took no other wife, although public opinion among his people would have allowed him to do so had he wished to. After Khadijah抯 death, he lived a single life for four or five years. All his other marriages began after he reached the age of fifty-five, an age by which very little real interest and desire for marriage remains. The allegation that his marriages after this age were an expression of licentiousness or self-indulgence, is as groundless as it is foul.
A question people often ask is: How can the plurality of his marriages be in accord with his role as the Prophet? There are three points to be made in answering this question, but first let us recognize that those who continually raise such questions are either atheists (who themselves have no religion) or are '憄eople of the Book' i.e. Christians or Jews. Both these classes of critics are equally ignorant of Islam and religion, or wilfully confuse right with wrong in order to deceive others and spread doubt and mischief.
Those who neither believe in nor practise any religious way of life have no right to reproach those who do. They have relations and unions with many women without following any rule or law or ethic. However they may pretend otherwise, what they do is unrestrained self-indulgence with, in practice, little regard for the consequences of their life-style upon the happiness and well-being of even their own children, let alone of the young in general.
In certain circles who advertise themselves as the most 'free', sexual relations which most societies condemn as incestuous are regarded as permissible; homosexuality is as 'normal' for them as any other kind of relationship; some even practise polyandry-that is, one woman having at the same time many 'husbands'-the agony of any children from such unions who may never be sure of who their father is, we leave to the reader's imagination.
The only motive that people who live in this way can have for criticising the Prophet's marriages is the foolish hope that they can drag Muslims down with them into the mess of moral confusion and viciousness in which they themselves are trapped.

Jews and Christians who attack the Prophet for the plurality of his marriages can only be motivated by their fear and jealous hatred of Islam. They plainly forget that the great patriarchs of the Hebrew race, named as prophets in the Bible as well as the Qur'an, and revered by the followers of all three faiths as exemplars of moral excellence, all practised polygamy-and indeed on a far greater scale than the Prophet Muhammad, upon him be peace.

...to be continued

Originally posted by Terong Pipit at 2004-4-23 07:41:
...to be continued...

Polygamy was not originated by the Muslims. Furthermore, in the case of the Prophet of Islam, as we shall see, polygamy (or, more strictly, polygyny) has, from the viewpoint of its function within the mission of prophethood, far more significance than people generally realise.

In a sense, the plurality of wives was a necessity for the Prophet through whose practice (or Sunna) the statutes and norms of Muslim law were to be established. Religion may not be excluded from the private relations between spouses, from matters that can only be known by one's partner. Therefore, there must be guidance from women who can give clear instruction and advice without using an allusive language of hints and innuendoes which leaves the meaning obscure and incomprehensible. The chaste and virtuous women of the Prophet抯 household were the teachers responsible for conveying and communicating to the people the norms and rules that concern the conduct of Muslims in their private lives.

Some of the marriages of the Prophet Muhammad, upon him be peace, were contracted for specific reasons to do with his wives:
First:
Since there were young, middle-aged and old women amongst them, the requirements and norms of Islamic law could be exemplified in relation to their different life stages and experiences. These provisions of the law were first learnt and applied within the Prophet's household and then passed on to other Muslims through the teaching of his wives.

Second;
Since each of his wives was from a different clan or tribe, the Prophet established bonds of kinship and affinity throughout the ummah. This enabled a profound attachment to him to spread amongst the diverse peoples of the new ummah, creating and securing equality and brotherhood amongst them in a most practical way and on the basis of religion.

Third:
Each of his wives, from their different tribes, both whilst the Prophet was living and after he passed away, proved of great benefit and service to the cause of Islam. They conveyed his message and interpreted it to their clans; the outer and inward experience, the qualities, the manners and faith of the man whose life, in all its details, public and intimate, was the embodiment of the Qur'an-Islam in practice. In this way, all the members of their clan, men and women, learnt about the Qur'an, Hadith, tafsir (interpretation and commentary on the Qur'an), and fiqh (understanding of the Islamic law), and so became fully aware of the essence and spirit of the Islamic religion.

Fourth:
Through his marriages, the Prophet Muhammad, upon him be peace, established ties of kinship throughout the Arabian peninsula. What this meant was that he was free to move and be accepted as a member in each family, each of whose members regarded him as one of their own. For that reason each felt that they could go to him in person to learn about the affairs of this life and of the life hereafter, directly from him. Equally, the tribes benefited collectively also from this proximity to the Prophet; they esteemed themselves to be fortunate and took pride in that relationship, such as the Ummayads through Umm Habibah, the Hashimites through Zaynab bint Jahsh, and the Banu Makhzum through Umm Salamah.

..to be continued.

FaithHealer3

Originally posted by Terong Pipit at 2004-4-23 03:46 PM:
Polygamy was not originated by the Muslims. Furthermore, in the case of the Prophet of Islam, as we shall see, polygamy (or, more strictly, polygyny) has, from ...

Emmm Poligamy... sounds like heaven   :cak:

  

Fuzzman

Taken in full context from Snipersnakes thread titled: Deuteronomy 22:13-18.
Originally posted by Debmey at 2005-2-1 10:41 PM:
Thats still does not mean paedophilia was moral nor divine. Had Mo been a divinely guided or moral man, he would have put a stop to such practices rather than indulge in it himself.

This should be a relevantly easier question on you after you've failed to prove that Prophet Mohammad was a false prophet.

Can you show proof that Prophet Mohammad is a paedophile?

ARI FUZZMAN


[ Last edited by  DARSITA at 8-6-2007 05:14 PM ]

Debmey

From Bukhari vol. 7, #65:

            "Narrated Aisha that the prophet wrote the marriage contract with her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old.  Hisham said:  "I have been informed that Aisha remained with the prophet for nine years (i.e. till his death).""




Bukhari vol. 7, #88:

            "Narrated Urwa:  "The prophet wrote the (marriage contract) with Aisha while she was six years old and consummated his marriage with her while she was nine years old and she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death).""





Bukhari vol. 5, #234 says:

            "Narrated Aisha:  The prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six.  We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Harith Kharzraj.  Then I got ill and my hair fell down.  Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends.  She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me.  She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house.  I was breathless then, and when my breathing became all right, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it.  Then she took me into the house.  There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, "Best wishes and Allah's blessing and a good luck."  Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage).  Unexpectedly Allah's messenger came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age."

Fuzzman

You still didn't answer my question. Providing Aishah's complete and precised narrative of the  pre-engagement excitement is not what I asked of you. I know that narrative like the back of my hand. You need to show proof that Prophet Mohammad is a confirmed paedophile.

ARI FUZZMAN

Debmey

Fuzzy in denial.

peace

Fuzzman

Originally posted by Debmey at 2005-2-2 10:23 AM:
Fuzzy in denial.peace

Nope not me. It is you. Show me ir-reversable proof that pinpoints Prophet Mohammad as a "CONFIRMED" paedophile. First of all you need to confirm that that is proof showing the prophet of being a paedophile. I'm sure you already know that paedophilia is a repetitive regressive condition. So by this count can you successfully tag the prophet to it? Hope that your Old School fraternity can come help you out on this one [that's about to constrict you again as usual!]

ARI FUZZMAN

[ Last edited by Fuzzman on 2-2-2005 at 10:34 AM ]

Fuzzman

Debmey fell within a space of five posts? WOW Debmey's really losing his strut already!

ARI FUZZMAN

Debmey

Firstly, thanks to Fuzzy for strating this thread with a clear headline.
And thanks for keeping up this thread for all to see.


see the hadiths? Aisha said so. She was 9 years old when her marriage was consumated.

From Bukhari vol. 7, #65:

            "Narrated Aisha that the prophet wrote the marriage contract with her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old.  Hisham said:  "I have been informed that Aisha remained with the prophet for nine years (i.e. till his death).""




Bukhari vol. 7, #88:

            "Narrated Urwa:  "The prophet wrote the (marriage contract) with Aisha while she was six years old and consummated his marriage with her while she was nine years old and she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death).""





Bukhari vol. 5, #234 says:

            "Narrated Aisha:  The prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six.  We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Harith Kharzraj.  Then I got ill and my hair fell down.  Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends.  She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me.  She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house.  I was breathless then, and when my breathing became all right, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it.  Then she took me into the house.  There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, "Best wishes and Allah's blessing and a good luck."  Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage).  Unexpectedly Allah's messenger came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age."

peace

[ Last edited by Debmey on 2-2-2005 at 11:10 AM ]