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Author: batu kikir

ONLY "NOT SO SMART" PEOPLE INVEST IN MUTUAL FUNDS

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Eus This user has been deleted
Post time 26-10-2005 07:53 AM | Show all posts
Originally posted by pokcikgumber at 25-10-2005 05:57 PM
panjangnya korang punya argument..just baca  first and last page.

Btw, for me unfair to said only not so smart people invest in Ut. I had diversified my investments in property, bursa saham, opt ...



Pakcikgumber,

Aku cuma nak tolong mamat tu je.

Since Pakcik banyak invest dan UT ni salah satu dari portfolio Pakcik, aku nak tanya satu benda ni la. Adakah Pakcik akan mula invest hanya kerana ada orang kata KLCI akan melonjak ke 1300 mata?

Aku ni bukan UT agent, Pakcik. Aku ni macam Pakcik juga, invest sini sikit, invest sana sikit. UT sikit, ASB sikit, bursa sikit, properties sikit. Aku cuma nak test mamat yang kata invest kat UT ni kerja bodoh (No, actually dia kata orang yang invest dalam UT ni orang bodoh...). So, macam mana Pakcik? Kalau orang kata KLCI bakal melonjak hujung tahun ni ke, sepuloh tahun lagi ke, adakah Pakcik terus melompat masuk untuk invest dalam UT?




[ Last edited by Eus at 26-10-2005 08:00 AM ]
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Post time 26-10-2005 04:33 PM | Show all posts
Originally posted by mrcom at 25-10-2005 01:02 PM


wahh... baguslah abgzan nie... kena nuntut nie ngan abgzan... boleh ker?...


takda la, bukan apa tapi, dah serik nak bergantung kpd agent...agent kekadang tidak befungsi sgt, bila tanya, diorg keep saying , "tunggu dulu, jgn swithc lagi" ...last last rugi lak ..sampai la 3 -4 kali ...susah nak bergantung harap...kena belajar sendiri la

Wassalaam.
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AbgZan
~Achieved Financial Freedom on 1st October 2005 ~
http://www.sales.st.com.my
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Post time 26-10-2005 04:43 PM | Show all posts
btw, pokcik tak nak involved dgn korang punya argument.

Terus terang aku invest dgn public mutual, return 5 years average 100 percent return.
My 5 cent opinion, tak perlulah kita fikir, klci going to 1300 baru nak invest.

basically agent akan suruh kita buat dollar cost average, yg ni aku tak suka biasanya agent try take for granted, persaude kita invest , invest and invest..utk nak dpt good return.

aku suka agent monitor melalaui switching kat bond. masa klci tinggi, switch kat bond dan masa rendah (definately the prices going down) switch balik kat equity.betul2 boleh buat duit.

btw, b4 invest, as a investor, pls learn first. Jangan serah bulat2 pd agent..kalau dai org tak switch, beter pull out yr money.
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jakun_001 This user has been deleted
Post time 26-10-2005 06:03 PM | Show all posts
Haiyaaaaaaaaa,,
memang susah nak cari untung.
Kadang kala tersungkur.
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Eus This user has been deleted
Post time 26-10-2005 06:24 PM | Show all posts
Originally posted by pokcikgumber at 26-10-2005 04:43 PM
btw, pokcik tak nak involved dgn korang punya argument.

Terus terang aku invest dgn public mutual, return 5 years average 100 percent return.
My 5 cent opinion, tak perlulah kita fikir, klci go ...



Tima kasih pakcik. Pakcik tak yah involve argument yang macam tu. Biar aku je yang involve. Benda-benda tu buang masa pakcik je.


Tapi pakcik dah tunjukkan yang orang yang invest dalam UT bukan semuanya tak smart, dan invest dalam UT boleh untung WALAUPUN setelah bayar komisen agent.


Satu perkara yang jadi tema dalam apa yang pakcik & abgzan tulis ialah, investor UT tak boleh bergantung pada agent. Pastikan agen tu jenis orang yang tak berdolak-dalik bila kita nak switch.


Investor UT juga kena belajar sikit-sebanyak pasal pasaran saham. Tak boleh main membuta tak nak ambik tau langsung. Kalau dah tak reti dan tak nak belajar, baik letak duit tu kat tempat lain. Kalau investor UT jenis tidor, agen pun jenis tidor jugak, memang hanyut la.





[ Last edited by Eus at 26-10-2005 06:35 PM ]
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Post time 27-10-2005 08:32 AM | Show all posts
Originally posted by pokcikgumber at 26-10-2005 04:43 PM
aku suka agent monitor melalaui switching kat bond. masa klci tinggi, switch kat bond dan masa rendah (definately the prices going down) switch balik kat equity.betul2 boleh buat duit.
btw, b4 invest, as a investor, pls learn first. Jangan serah bulat2 pd agent..kalau dai org tak switch, beter pull out yr money.


Setuju yg teramat sgt dgn point di atas as i mentioned previously.

Originally posted by Eus at 26-10-2005 06:24 PM
Satu perkara yang jadi tema dalam apa yang pakcik & abgzan tulis ialah, investor UT tak boleh bergantung pada agent. Pastikan agen tu jenis orang yang tak berdolak-dalik bila kita nak switch.


Juga setuju as mentioned b4 as well.

You guys can refer here:

Originally posted by abgzan at 25-10-2005 08:55 AM
So dlm UT ni, anda kena bersabar, JGN pakai MASUK UT ANYTIME. Don't do that. I used to do that, when I was naive. Bertahun nak tunggu untung. 3-4 kali, bila "baru nak untung aja, KLCI dah mula jatuh, baru nak untung sikit sekali lagi, KLCI jatuh balik...berulang2 sampaila 3-4kali" ...Ia berlaku sbb TIMING TIDAK BETUL. Anda kena bersabar tunggu LOWEST POINT possible dgn menggunakan apa2 kaedah pun. Kaedah saya di atas boleh juga diamalkan insyaAllah.


Kat sini saya nak ambik kesempatan tanya Pakcik yg dah bertahun2 pengalamannya, what do you think about my method? Do you think it is reliable? Pakcik can refer here:

Originally posted by abgzan at 25-10-2005 08:55 AM
http://www.klse.com.my/website/marketinfo/stk_summary.htm (bursa saham)
http://www.publicmutual.com.my/application/fund/performance.aspx   (Pbulic Mutual graph)
http://www.bharian.com.my/  (berita harian  pun ada KLCI graf)

Saya merujuk kpd ketiga2 ni, dan saya akan mengkaji naik turun UT hampir setiap hari. Jadi saya merumuskan perkara di atas tu ---> "biasanyer kalau anda tgk graph KLCI, kalau anda nampak graph KLCI naik selama 5-10 hari berterusan, insyaAllah ia akan terus naik...begitu juga sebaliknya. Kalau graf KLCI turun mendadak selama 5-10 hri berturut2, ia akan terus turun. Saya sudah mengkaji graf ni sudah dekat 2 tahun"


Almaklum, org kata, byk makan garam, byk pengalaman. Saya pun masih belajar, almaklum org kata, belajar biarlah sampai ke liang lahad.

Satu lagi, saya nak cadangkan apa kata kita bukak satu thread yg mungkin Pakcik can bg tau "ramalan" bila Pakcik atau Agent Pakcik ramal saham akan "turun" atau "naik" sbg HINT utk nak SWITCH ke BOND atau Equity? Boleh kita tolong menolong kan? Dapat pahala juga, insyaALlah...

Camnila, saya bukak sekarg yer? Kejap yer.....

.....
.....
.....

Dah bukak pon...ni dia link dia:
http://forum.cari.com.my/viewthr ... &extra=page%3D1

So, sesiapa yg rasa dirinyer ada "ilmu yg dapat meramal" , share sharekan la ilmu tu, jgn buat duit sorg2 aja , hehe

Just my 6cents

Wassalaam.
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ﻪﻟﻟﺍﻝﻮﺴﺮﺪﻤﺤﻤ

AbgZan
~Achieved Financial Freedom on 1st October 2005 ~
http://www.sales.st.com.my
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Post time 28-10-2005 10:33 AM | Show all posts
Originally posted by taxotere at 22-10-2005 11:30 AM


kalo dah nama nya INVEST...mana boleh guarantee profit bang...invest is about risk..

cuma risk tu pelbagai la..ada yang low, medium and high..


Mr otexotere,

You are absolutely right about it... kalau tak nak ambik risk.. simpan je dalam saving account.. Fixed deposit. tabung haji. EPF, ASB...with confirmed annual return of 3%, 3-4% (Base on value invested), 4.5%, 4.75%, 7-8%.. memang duit tak hilang..

But there is one thing to be remembered.. if the inflation rate is more than 4%.as of .it means that you get nothing...

The last but not least, apa2pun..SELAMAT MENYAMBUT HARI RAYA AIDILFITRI...



Sany
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Post time 28-10-2005 10:44 AM | Show all posts
Originally posted by mrcom at 25-10-2005 01:02 PM


wahh... baguslah abgzan nie... kena nuntut nie ngan abgzan... boleh ker?...



Yelah.. betul cakap abangzan tu.. tapi Bank Rakyat dah tutup..fund tu dah close.. kena tunggu la dulu.. ASB hanya 7% je.. 2% tu bonus..hanya pada sesapa yang dah menyimpan more than 10 years.. ASW pun samer..7%..

Tapi kena ingat.. ASB@ ASW masih ade perselisihan pendapat mengenai 100% Islamic..sebab menurut pendapat ahli fikir Islam. 100% Islamic are free of 3 major factors
  a. Riba'
  b. Gambling
  c. Alcoholic transations..

So fikirkan2 la. barang2 yang tak clear. kita tak sure...elok la kita hindarkan....

Lagipun dah banyak UT companies. macam SBB, Public Bank, Hwang DBS.. yang offer 100% Islamic fund..with the same return...

Cuma melabur dalam UT ni.. ade risk sikit.. tapi macam I selalu note.. High Risk High Return..




Sany
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Post time 28-10-2005 11:48 AM | Show all posts
Sempena hari yang mulia ini, saya ingin mengucapkan SELAMAT HARI RAYA serta memohon kemaafan sekiranya ada atas keterlanjuran samada sengaja atau tidak
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Post time 28-10-2005 10:40 PM | Show all posts
[quote]Originally posted by Andak at 28-10-2005 11:48 AM
Sempena hari yang mulia ini, saya ingin mengucapkan SELAMAT HARI RAYA serta memohon kemaafan sekiranya ada atas keterlanjuran samada sengaja atau tidak
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 Author| Post time 8-11-2005 06:47 PM | Show all posts
3) Investing in secondary hope in UT.

What do I mean? As an illustration, assume you invest in share market. If you are right in your analysis, you will get whatever return you supposed to get minus the brokerage and other fees. Meaning that if you a buy a share, you involved yourself with primary hope.

What about UT then?
First of all, you hope that the KLCI (if your UT is based on selected shares in the KLSE) to be positive.
Then you hope, the UT manager has bought the correct "mix" of shares in the market.
This is what I called secondary hope.
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 Author| Post time 8-11-2005 06:48 PM | Show all posts
3) Investing in secondary hope in UT.

What do I mean? As an illustration, assume you invest in share market. If you are right in your analysis, you will get whatever return you supposed to get minus the brokerage and other fees. Meaning that if you a buy a share, you involved yourself with primary hope.

What about UT then?
First of all, you hope that the KLCI (if your UT is based on selected shares in the KLSE) to be positive.
Then you hope, the UT manager has bought the correct "mix" of shares in the market.
This is what I called secondary hope.
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Post time 9-11-2005 11:11 AM | Show all posts
Originally posted by pokcikgumber at 26-10-2005 04:43 PM
btw, pokcik tak nak involved dgn korang punya argument.

Terus terang aku invest dgn public mutual, return 5 years average 100 percent return.
My 5 cent opinion, tak perlulah kita fikir, klci go ...


pokcikgumber...nape pokcik tak suka dollar cost averaging..bukan ke bagus kalo kita
invest cara ni?
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Post time 9-11-2005 11:16 AM | Show all posts
Originally posted by sany48 at 28-10-2005 10:44 AM



Yelah.. betul cakap abangzan tu.. tapi Bank Rakyat dah tutup..fund tu dah close.. kena tunggu la dulu.. ASB hanya 7% je.. 2% tu bonus..hanya pada sesapa yang dah menyimpan more than 10 years. ...


inflation rate yg di declare dalam paper 4%..tapi realitynya..6% kalo saya tak silap..
jadik..dividen ASB 7% tolak inflation rate..berapa sangat lah yg tinggal..;)
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Post time 9-11-2005 11:23 AM | Show all posts
Originally posted by batu kikir at 8-11-2005 06:48 PM
3) Investing in secondary hope in UT.

What do I mean? As an illustration, assume you invest in share market. If you are right in your analysis, you will get whatever return you supposed to get m ...


My friend,

As of Jan 2005, in SBB Mutual Berhad,

There are  RM 2, 795 757, 200.00  (2 billions ++) money has been invested in 7 Islamic funds.. .

For example, Dana Al-Ihsan I , even the first investment in only RM500.00 and sebsequent one is RM50.00, there is RM661,500.000 (600 mill++) invested by other people.

So, whether you like to invest or not..or even .to analyze..do whatever you wanna do.. but do not take it so long...sebabnya rugi la.....orang dah lama dapat benefit.. samap

Sany,
www.investwithsany.com
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Post time 9-11-2005 11:38 AM | Show all posts
Originally posted by batu kikir at 8-11-2005 06:48 PM
3) Investing in secondary hope in UT.

What do I mean? As an illustration, assume you invest in share market. If you are right in your analysis, you will get whatever return you supposed to get m ...


My friend,

As of Jan 2005, in SBB Mutual Berhad,

There are  RM 2, 795 757, 200.00  (2 billions ++) money has been invested in 7 Islamic funds.. .

For example, Dana Al-Ihsan I , even the first investment in only RM500.00 and sebsequent one is RM50.00, there is RM661,500.000 (600 mill++) invested by other people.

So, whether you like to invest or not..or even .to analyze..do whatever you wanna do.. but do not take it so long...sebabnya rugi la.....orang dah lama dapat benefit.. samap

Sany,
www.investwithsany.com
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VeryBlurr This user has been deleted
Post time 9-11-2005 09:03 PM | Show all posts
how do you explain to your clients about the poor performance of the unit trust funds in general (apart from the index-linked funds) 2004-2005 compared to 2002-2003, especially if they have invested recently?

do you use the retun indexes provided by S&P or Lipper as an illustartion to your clients? concerned because most advice not to look at short-term performance as a measure of fund performance, yet a one-year outperformance can easily skew the results in the funds' favour (e.g. TA Comet, HDBS Dana Izdihar etc.) over three and five years, with other factors remaining the same. can you explain them away?

how is it that UT entrance fees have not come down despite the large interest in UT as an investment vehicle the last three years...as i understand it, a lot of mutual funds overseas have to entrance or exit fees, and have minimal management fees...and i believe these costs are underplayed during advice to potential clients (I know, because there are a number, bank-based or otherwise, of 'financial advisors' inadvertantly skipped this part during our discourse) and as you know the costs are important because an initial investment would make you an immediate loss of 5-7%...and it is difficult to see how one can make any returns in current market conditions even with dollar-cost averaging...i think i read somewhere that if you had invested in 1994 till now without exiting, you would still have made a loss (despite DCA)

personally over the long run, i prefer public mutual funds as they are consistent (both in returns and capital protection) over the long term (most of them have got at least a five year record) compared to the other funds...i think among the newer ones, avenue UT is one of the better performers...
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Post time 10-11-2005 07:59 PM | Show all posts
Originally posted by no~yean at 9-11-2005 11:11 AM


pokcikgumber...nape pokcik tak suka dollar cost averaging..bukan ke bagus kalo kita
invest cara ni?



u use switching method more practical
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Post time 15-11-2005 02:14 AM | Show all posts
Assalamualaikum WBT,

Being a fulltime UTC/agent with SBB Mutual Berhad, let me give my opinions about the concerns. There is not right or wrong here. It is for you to decide. FYI, there are 36 unit trust companies in Malaysia with about 11% market capitalization in stock market. For developed countries such as US, Japan, Singapore, etc, unit trust have capitalized about 40% or more. This is to show that Malaysia is still far behind them.

how do you explain to your clients about the poor performance of the unit trust funds in general (apart from the inex-linked funds) 2004-2005 compared to 2002-2003, especially if they have invested recently?


One thing to be reminded all the time in all unit trust companies, wheever to invest in unit trust, a client will have to consider a mid to long term investiment. It can also be translated to 3-5 years. It means that, maybe on the first 2 years, the fund is not performing very well, then we have to wait for another 3 years. We say when market goes down, there is a chance to rebound. I remembered one song sing by Jon Bon Jovi, "Good things come for those who waittttttt." So, JUST DO IT...

Plus in SBB, we have 28 funds.  All these 28 funds  are classified under 4 different types which are
  a. Equity funds (90-99.55 expose to KLCI/KLSI) eg. Dana AlHikmah for 2004-5, ROI = 19.08% (Bonus)
  b. Balanced funds (40% exposed to stock market, 60% LA/FI) eg RBF 31.94%, Avg 3 years = 16.58%
  c. Income funds
  d. Money market fund - New fund introduced

In other words, it is rather difficult to justify one or two funds performance. Each fund is very unique.  

do you use the retun indexes provided by S&P or Lipper as an illustartion to your clients? concerned because most advice not to look at short-term performance as a measure of fund performance, yet a one-year outperformance can easily skew the results in the funds' favour (e.g. TA Comet, HDBS Dana Izdihar etc.) over three and five years, with other factors remaining the same. can you explain them away?


All SBB mutual agents are exposed to Fund Fact Sheet where S&P or Lipper is concerned and highlighted. Again, I would say all unit trust companies do not look at short term measure. For SBB in particular, when Dana AlHikmah managed to provide 19.08% ROI, it is a bonus for the client.

how is it that UT entrance fees have not come down despite the large interest in UT as an investment vehicle the last three years...as i understand it, a lot of mutual funds overseas have to entrance or exit fees, and have minimal management fees...and i believe these costs are underplayed during advice to potential clients (I know, because there are a number, bank-based or otherwise, of 'financial advisors' inadvertantly skipped this part during our discourse) and as you know the costs are important because an initial investment would make you an immediate loss of 5-7%...and it is difficult to see how one can make any returns in current market conditions even with dollar-cost averaging...i think i read somewhere that if you had invested in 1994 till now without exiting, you would still have made a loss (despite DCA)


Well, you should understand the basic thing about unit trust. Actually 6.5% charge for one fund such as Dana Al Ihsan is pretty reasonable. Let say if you invest RM5000.00 in it, you would be able to invest in 5 counters/potfolios which are Ambang Sentosa unquoted bonds, MISC shares, Telekom shares, Sime Darby Bhd shares and Transmile shares respectively (Refer to SBB MASTER PROSPETUS page 111). So 6.5/5 =1.3% pershare which is lower than normal charge in the conventional market share.

If the agents fail to acknowledge the client about the charge, it is the agent fault. It has nothing to do with the companies. In every company, there are enough education/training for agents to give accurate and comprehensive information such as risk level , charge, time horizon, etc to the clients. BUKAN SALAH IBU MENGANDUNG KALAU ANAK JADI PENIPU.

personally over the long run, i prefer public mutual funds as they are consistent (both in returns and capital protection) over the long term (most of them have got at least a five year record) compared to the other funds...i think among the newer ones, avenue UT is one of the better performers


Which companies and funds you prefer, it is your choices as long as it meets your objectives which is to double your saving as compared to Saving, Fixed Deposit, EPF, etc. It is actually people choices, preferences and affordability. It is like when you are driving in the Highway. You gotta see so many different cars on road. For some people, driving a BMW 3 series worth about 150K is too much but hey.. for some people, driving BMW is like BEING DRIVEN as compared to DRIVE  other car.

Despites so many critism about unit trust, I woud like to invite to browse to my personal website

www.tualangenterprise.com

to see how SBB mutual berhad can benefit you as an investor, an agent as well as an recuiter. A lot of people have benefited from it.



Regards,
Sany, 0192709160
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Post time 15-11-2005 07:43 AM | Show all posts
dengar kata kat mesia ni public mutual (subsidiary of public bank)
adalah unit trust company nombor 1 based pada banyak pengiktirafan yg dia dapat...
betul ke?

dan aku ada dapat pamplet ttg public mutual nih...
aku just amik yg islamik punya je la yer (kategori ekuiti islam/syariah)..

fund                                             total returns
-----------                                     -----------------
public inslamic equity fund          18.02% (1 year)
public ittikal fund                         55.02% (3 yrs)
public ittikal fund                         59.59% (5 yrs)

so soklan aku is,
adalah total returns tu mmg confirm kita leh dapat?
i mean katalah aku ada rm1000 bersih utk dilaburkan dlm UT
dan aku invest utk 3 tahun
so by end of the 3rd year duit aku akan jadi rm 1000 + (rm1000 x 55.02%)??

TQ.


Saya baru belajar.
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