Was Jesus Insane?

tommy_mylex

Originally posted by barney50 at 1-9-2006 09:28 AM
tommy_mylex,

Like Mohammed went into a rage and ordered the killing of a Jewish woman just because she spoke against him? To me it sounds like he was another Norman Bates the psycho of the 6th c ...

Good attempt, but that? not the answer
Please try again later. :nerd:

The question of Jesus' mental health is one that has not been explored enough. I am wondering if any of the new Christians in the group has any answers to reply to the questions I raised in message 1.

Unfortunately I saw Hindu wannabe (christian) help to answer but still fail.

nightlord

By sharia law, tommy_mylex must face the punishment of offending the name of a muslim prophet.

Calling Jesus a mad man, is the worst crime a muslim can do.

tommy_mylex

Originally posted by nightlord at 1-9-2006 10:15 PM
By sharia law, tommy_mylex must face the punishment of offending the name of a muslim prophet.

Calling Jesus a mad man, is the worst crime a muslim can do.

Sorry, your jesus was man made god

For my Jesus ( pbuh) according to Islam was one of the messenger of God.


POINT 1: The Christian does not know that the true spirit of charity which the Muslim displays, always, towards Jesus and his mother Mary spring from the fountainhead of his faith - the Holy Qur?n. He does not know that the Muslim does not take the holy name of Jesus, in his own language, without saying Eesa, alaihi assalam ("Jesus, peace be upon him" ).

POINT 2: In the Holy Qur?n Jesus is mentioned twenty five times.
for example: "We gave Jesus, the son of Mary, clear signs and strengthened him with the Holy Spirit" (The Holy Qur?n 2:87)

"O Mary! God giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be Christ Jesus, the son of Mary..." (3:45)
"...Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) an apostle of god..." (4:171)

"...And in their foot steps we sent Jesus the son of Mary..." (5:46)

"And Zakariya and John, and Jesus and Elias: all in the ranks of the righteous." (6:85)

POINT 3:He is spoken of as "The Word of God", as "The Spirit of God", as a "Sign of God", and numerous other epithets of honor spread over fifteen different chapters. The Holy Quran honors this mighty messenger of God, and the Muslims have not fallen short over the past fourteen hundred years in doing the same. There is not a single disparaging remark in the entire Quran to which even the most jaundiced among the Christians can take exception

Debmey

Hehehehe.......... Jesus didn't violate the law nor teach against it.

Mo broke almost all the ten commandments. He murdered, raped, robbed, lied, dishonured God, worshiped idol etc. So who'sw mad here? Jesus or Muslims like Tommy? ahahahahahahaha.......................

cheers

tommy_mylex

I am merely asking Was Jesus Insane? If not, then why did his family think so and had come to get him? Did they and Mary forget the miraculous birth of Jesus and his magical powers or was he just a deranged religious nutcase like so many we see in this age? Was he in fact, if he existed, simply a nut job like David Koresh and some lossely wired unstable people thought he was divine? If it is possible he existed is it not possible this was the simple conclusion? It is the NT, the inspired 'word of God', 'infalible' is it not?

tommy_mylex

It is hard for the Christian to accept that their most trusted parents and Sunday School teacher would lie to them. Yet that is the case. This is why the only way we can combat their beliefs is to present their beliefs to them. They see them one at a time. They believe them one at a time. When we show them two verses at the same time, it disturbs their sleep, and they often get mean. There seems no way around it, all we can do is keep showing them bible errors.

barney50

1. responded by tommy_mylex:It is hard for the Christian to accept that their most trusted parents and Sunday School teacher would lie to them. Yet that is the case. This is why the only way we can combat their beliefs is to present their beliefs to them. They see them one at a time. They believe them one at a time. When we show them two verses at the same time, it disturbs their sleep, and they often get mean. There seems no way around it, all we can do is keep showing them bible errors.

Copy the Code

Yes, it is also hard to Muslims to accept that their most trusted parents and class agama [religious class] ustaz would lie to them all this while. Yet that is the case. This is why the only way we can combat their belief is to present the truth. When we show them several verses at the same time, it disturbs their sleep and they often get mean. There seems no way around it, all we can do is keep showing their Quranic errors so that they will realize they had been deluded by their own religion.

tommy_mylex

Originally posted by barney50 at 3-9-2006 12:24 PM
responded by tommy_mylex:It is hard for the Christian to accept that their most trusted parents and Sunday School teacher would lie to them. Yet that is the case. This is why the only way we can co ...

Barney, you got your answer wrong again,
Please try again

barney50

tommy,

No you got it wroong. Go try and speak to they young ones what they had learned today in their relgious class. Sometime back I gave an example of what my neighbours son told me what his guru agama thought them. So, it is the Muslim children that needed to be rescuded from such morons who think only Muslims are superior and all others should not live in this planet. Their idea is if you want to live in this planet you must convert and become a Muslims otherwise you should die. Who created this idea if not Mohamed? He was the cause of the trouble Muslims are facing in this world. Go, do your studies and research before you come here to teach us.

eastrun

Originally posted by barney50 at 3-9-2006 12:38 PM
tommy,

No you got it wroong. Go try and speak to they young ones what they had learned today in their relgious class. Sometime back I gave an example of what my neighbours son told me what his g ...

Before you say anything.I want to know why you and your youngs worship those gods made by stone?.Well you all know that they can't speak, can't hear. can' help you to solve your problems and yet you worship them. Can I say your youngs have been brainwashed too?.
What for the ustaz want to lie if those he said to the young peoples are in the Holy Quran?. You are the one who lied all this while. Claiming that you have read the Holy Quran but you never touched it.

[ Last edited by  eastrun at 3-9-2006 03:00 PM ]

tickmeoff

Whether Jesus , mohammad were insane, will never be known. Whether Heaven as promised by each holy books will be realized when we die, will also never be known. each believers will follow whatever promises written in their book.

If you already made up your mind about certain thing, it's very hard to change your opinions. Therefore, a christian will hold on to his faith no matter what arguments were thrown against his belief, and same goes for muslims who will hold on to their Koran. Each will say others are wrong, each have reasons to back up, each have reasons to disagree.


AT the end, these arguments are just plain waste of time, dont you think guys?



This religion, spirituality forum should be renamed to:

" Islam vs Christianity: Join in and waste your time and give all your nonsense here"

Thread after thread, you see the same few people posting, Oreng, Debmey, Truth, etc over different issues but with fundamental similarities and condescending egoism .. in other words could be summed to "listen to me I am correct you stupid"
... it's tedious and boring.

dont you guys have anything better to do? like .. sports, go to churches and mosques to pray, give to charity, donate to poor, help volunteer service, helping parents to do errands for them, attending to kids, or procreate and have sex.

LOL

Jesus was also Nabi Isa right? Was Nabi Isa insane?
If Nabi Isa was insane, then Jesus was insane. If Nabi Isa was not insane, then Jesus was not insane. They are same person.

barney50

1. responded by eastrun:Before you say anything.I want to know why you and your youngs worship those gods made by stone?.Well you all know that they can't speak, can't hear. can' help you to solve your problems and yet you worship them. Can I say your youngs have been brainwashed too?.
   
2. What for the ustaz want to lie if those he said to the young peoples are in the Holy Quran?. You are the one who lied all this while. Claiming that you have read the Holy Quran but you never touched it.

Copy the Code

For and ignorant like you all I  can say is open your mind instead of listening to your ustaz or ullamas who do  not have the slightest notion of what is idol worship. The stones you see in our temples are not GODs but represents GOD. If GOD is in your present what would a Muslim like you do? Please answer this question before I give you my detailed reply. Please be honest and tell me now.

eastrun

Originally posted by barney50 at 3-9-2006 10:21 PM
responded by eastrun:Before you say anything.I want to know why you and your youngs worship those gods made by stone?.Well you all know that they can't speak, can't hear. can' help you to solve yo ...

Represent God?.To represent God, you don't have to say he is cow, he is that and he is this. If you think and open your mind, you will know that God is God and living things are living things and never be the same forever. It's simple. Now I am asking you.. is it without the 'patung', you won't believe that God is exist?. Sorry to say...FOR mUSLIMS, we don't put God at that level...

Before you say that my ustaz is lying, why don't you put same situation to your sami?. Well..they are human and they also can lie to you and you as the follower also never think that they would lie to you.And that's why you follow them

And your scriptures came long before...thousands years ago...without confirmation from God, it can be said your scriptures suffered more distortion than any scripture in the world. And you..keep following the distorted scriptures and rejecting new laws that brought down by new prophets after him(your prophet). THINK

[ Last edited by  eastrun at 3-9-2006 10:47 PM ]

barney50

1. by eastrun:
   
2. 
   
3. Represent God?.To represent God, you don't have to say he is cow, he is that and he is this. If you think and open your mind, you will know that God is God and living things are living things and never be the same forever. It's simple. Now I am asking you.. is it without the 'patung', you won't believe that God is exist?. Sorry to say...FOR mUSLIMS, we don't put God at that level...

Copy the Code

My response:

Heh! You have evaded the issue. I know people like you when confronted with a question you wiggle your way. Answer my question before we proceed further on this issue.

1. by eastrun:
   
2. 
   
3. Before you say that my ustaz is lying, why don't you put same situation to your sami?. Well..they are human and they also can lie to you and you as the follower also never think that they would lie to you.And that's why you follow them

Copy the Code

Wrong! Our temple priest duty is to conduct prayers and not discuss about anything else.  But your ustaz duty is to debunk other faith to the students by saying non believers paray to devil and are enemies of Islam. Even in University level the religious bigots tell the Muslims students the same. You or your kind cannot deny that. That is because they have been trainded by their teachers in the past to to the same. There is no way for them to sell their product without condemning others. And that is Islam.

1. by esatrun:
   
2. 
   
3. And your scriptures came long before...thousands years ago...without confirmation from God, it can be said your scriptures suffered more distortion than any scripture in the world. And you..keep following the distorted scriptures and rejecting new laws that brought down by new prophets after him(your prophet). THINK

Copy the Code

What without confirmation? Who the hel told you that? Oh! I see and yours did not? How sure are you? Taking the word of another Muslim like Al" Bukhari? Huh! That 's confirmation for you? All scriptures have distortion and flaws and there is no denial about it. There is no authority to proof that scriptures have not been distorted. So, admit it and say no more.

nightlord

The right way for a muslim is definitely not your way.

tommy_mylex

The Jesus described in the Gospels cannot be considered sane by any standards. For example, here were some things which were not only an abomination to religious Jews, but even today would get the proponent of such practices rightfully branded unbalanced.

1) Jesus made two demands on disciples, and only two. In Luke 14 we are told that: a) followers must hate family and self as a precondition of discipleship, and b) followers must give away all their possessions and live in poverty. The idea is that the cares of this world would distract them and that some imaginary "heavenly father" would provide for their needs. One of Jesus' most inane teachings is that this 'heavenly father" provides for the sparrows; but in reality, most birds have short life spans dying from hunger, disease, cold, and violence. Jesus was obviously not a very good observer of the natural world.

2) Jesus repeated twisted, distorted, and invented bogus quotes in order to present himself as more than human. This did not impress the first century Jews, nor would such actions impress anyone today who indulged in it; nothing hurts one's credibility more than to claim something is written when it is not.

3) Jesus lied and was evasive whenever it suited his purposes. He would stir up trouble and then go into hiding. He hypocritically preached that one should not fear those who could kill the body, but Jesus was so well hidden that an insider was needed to smoke him out of his hiding hole. Just his pathetic and cowardly grovelling in the garden for an escape does not impress the reader to the man's courage.

4) Jesus taught that one must drink his blood and eat his flesh as a precondition of eternal life. This is in itself a serious sin and a violation of the Mosaic Law's strict forbiddence on blood drinking -- real or symbolic.

5) Jesus broke practically every commandment in Exo 21, in particular his repeated violation of the Sabbath -- a violation of the Sabbath restrictions on work was in itself a death sentence.

The gospel writers wanted to blame the Jews for the death of this fictional man, a real man's life would have been more consistent, so they invented the myth that the Jews got Pilate to do it. The idea is that Jews could not execute people without the consent of the Roman procurator [they got Pilate's title wrong], but this does not hold up to the evidence. Stephen was executed and the Romans were not asked for their consent. So the entire Pilate story can be considered a later fiction attached to the myth of Jesus.

If Jesus existed, he would have been of the Pharisee school of thought; if he had violated the Laws, preached antisocial behaviour, was critical of the priesthood, and encouraged people to question the authorities -- he would have been expelled from his school, and executed. There is no way that the Jews would have silently stood by and allow someone to preach that one should drink his blood; such a thing in itself would have been a violation of the Laws and the punishment would have been death.

We do not take insane people seriously today; and there is no reason to believe that there were no insane Jews in first century Palestine. Mental illness has always been with us; and if mental illness explains the strange behavior of a man, then there is no reason to believe said person is god.

barney50

1. Originally posted by tommy_mylex:
   
2. 
   
3. 1) Jesus made two demands on disciples, and only two. In Luke 14 we are told that: a) followers must hate family and self as a precondition of discipleship, and b) followers must give away all their possessions and live in poverty. The idea is that the cares of this world would distract them and that some imaginary "heavenly father" would provide for their needs. One of Jesus' most inane teachings is that this 'heavenly father" provides for the sparrows; but in reality, most birds have short life spans dying from hunger, disease, cold, and violence. Jesus was obviously not a very good observer of the natural world.

Copy the Code

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My reply to you:

That is your interpretation but the true fact is what Jesus said to those who wish to follow his path is here:
"If you would follow me in love, and be disciples of the Holy Breath, and gain at last the crown of life, you must leave all there is of carnal life behind.". Do you as a Muslim know what this parable means? Let me tell you because it is what has been told in the Gita 3000 years before what Jesus said. If one sincerely wish to seek the path of GOD than he sould leave his worldly possessions and family ties and become a sanyasi. And that is what Gautama Buddha did before Jesus and attained Nirvana. How could you understand this facts when your prophet only preached killing and enjoying the spoils of war. Pathetic!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1. Originally posted by tommy_mylex:
   
2. 
   
3. 2) Jesus repeated twisted, distorted, and invented bogus quotes in order to present himself as more than human. This did not impress the first century Jews, nor would such actions impress anyone today who indulged in it; nothing hurts one's credibility more than to claim something is written when it is not.

Copy the Code

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My reply to you:

The Jews were not prepared for such a shock and was something new to them. I do not blame the Jews for rejecting Jesus because their elders were in the believe that their expected messiah would be born in an aristorcratic family and not from poor carpenter's family. All their previous messiahs came with only one agenda and that was to deliever the message of their GOD but Jesus came to revive their scriptures of the past. What is so funny about that?  Ofcourse you would not undestand that because your is a copy cat religion and so how would you know the inner meaning of the real truth behind Jesus's appearance.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1. Originally posted by tommy_mylex:
   
2. 
   
3. 3) Jesus lied and was evasive whenever it suited his purposes. He would stir up trouble and then go into hiding. He hypocritically preached that one should not fear those who could kill the body, but Jesus was so well hidden that an insider was needed to smoke him out of his hiding hole. Just his pathetic and cowardly grovelling in the garden for an escape does not impress the reader to the man's courage.

Copy the Code

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sorry my friend, Jesus was not a liar but Mohammed was. Mohammed lied that Allah gave him permmision to mary his adopted son's wife. Now that was an utter lie to satisfy his lust to marry the beautiful Zainab. For your information Jesus was arrested by Roman soldiers on the orders of the Sanhedrin and the high priest, Caiaphas. He was praying in the garden. According to the synoptics, Judas Iscariot, one of his apostles, betrayed Jesus by identifying him to the guards with a kiss. Now is this you call hiding? But the great escape by night was by Mohammed who ran helter skelter to Medina when news reached him that the Meccans are coming to kill him. Now how is that for a prophet of Allah whose life was in danger and Allah could not save his so loving prophet that Mohammed had to escape during the dark of the night. So much for Allah's power. No wonder Allah had to use Mohammed to destroy his enemies. Pathetic!

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1. Originally posted by tommy_mylex:
   
2. 
   
3. 4) Jesus taught that one must drink his blood and eat his flesh as a precondition of eternal life. This is in itself a serious sin and a violation of the Mosaic Law's strict forbiddence on blood drinking -- real or symbolic.

Copy the Code

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My reply to you:

It is symbolic and not in reality. Any fool would know that but as for you, I'm not sure if you are more than that.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1. Originally posted by tommy_mylex:
   
2. 
   
3. 5) Jesus broke practically every commandment in Exo 21, in particular his repeated violation of the Sabbath -- a violation of the Sabbath restrictions on work was in itself a death sentence.

Copy the Code

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My reply to you:

Heh! I told you that he came to revive his orthodox Jewish beief. A simple example if you child had fallen into the well on a  Sunday would you leave it there just because it is sabbath and you cannot work on sabbath. You need to use your comon sense. Orthodox Jews were like what Muslims are theses days. Can you get the meaning?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1. Originally posted by tommy_mylex:
   
2. 
   
3. The gospel writers wanted to blame the Jews for the death of this fictional man, a real man's life would have been more consistent, so they invented the myth that the Jews got Pilate to do it. The idea is that Jews could not execute people without the consent of the Roman procurator [they got Pilate's title wrong], but this does not hold up to the evidence. Stephen was executed and the Romans were not asked for their consent. So the entire Pilate story can be considered a later fiction attached to the myth of Jesus.

Copy the Code

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My reply to you:

No more worse than Mohammed's fictious stories of Jesus not crucified and he met Abraham, Moses and Jesus during his journey to  meet Allah to negotiate the number of times Muslims could do the prayers in a day. Negotiaiting with Allah form seven time to 5 times. What differece is it? If your heart is not sincere and if you pray 24/7 would Allah forgive your sinful acts?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1. Originally posted by tommy_mylex:
   
2. 
   
3. If Jesus existed, he would have been of the Pharisee school of thought; if he had violated the Laws, preached antisocial behaviour, was critical of the priesthood, and encouraged people to question the authorities -- he would have been expelled from his school, and executed. There is no way that the Jews would have silently stood by and allow someone to preach that one should drink his blood; such a thing in itself would have been a violation of the Laws and the punishment would have been death.

Copy the Code

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My reply to you:

Yeh! I get it. Muslims would do that. Record shows Mohammed had excuted hundreds of people who went aganst him. Others he ordered his hench men to do the dirty job of killing innocent people. The Jews were more rational and first investigate if he had breached the covenant. Not Mohammed or his followers. He had excuted mnay innocent Meccans without any investigation or trial. He conducted a Kangaroo court and excuted Jews to his liking. So much for a perfect man.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1. Originally posted by tommy_mylex:
   
2. 
   
3. We do not take insane people seriously today; and there is no reason to believe that there were no insane Jews in first century Palestine. Mental illness has always been with us; and if mental illness explains the strange behavior of a man, then there is no reason to believe said person is god.

Copy the Code

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That applies to the Arabs and Mohammed in particular. He was a mentally distrubed man when he was a child of 6. Lost his mother so no love was gained. Given to his uncle who made him a camel herd to a rich merchant. Also he was abused and may be sodomised by the rich merchant. All this was bottled up and when he grew up to be a man contemplated on a scheme on how to take revenge on his abusers. The idea was born in the cave and that was how he became the master of the desert people. The rest is history.

tommy_mylex

Originally posted by barney50 at 4-9-2006 10:56 AM
Originally posted by tommy_mylex:

1) Jesus made two demands on disciples, and only two. In Luke 14 we are told that: a) followers must hate family and self as a precondition of discipleship, an ...

Now who is INSANE ?

Jesus or Barney50 ?

The topic was about "Jesus" Insane and not about Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) we debate about.

Again and again nd again Barney50 you got the answer wrong....please try again.

Try to refute why "Jesus" is not Insane.

barney50

tommy my friend,

In your Quran Jesus was accepted by Mohammed as a messanger and now you say Jesus was insane. So, If Jesus was insane surely Mohammed too was insane to accept him as a messanger. Get my point? In this case the whole Quran crumbles down to nothing.. So, in short Quran is a fairytale.