We cannot afford to maintain these ancient prejudices against Islam

yusmur said-
Dear ALFLOSS....are you a Muslim ? If you are not  then you should not have any problems with the shariah law as it only affects Muslims.....so may I know what is your point ?

Most Muslims are peaceful human beings but what I see is that they are just reacting to all the disparaging remarks of non muslims towards Islam. I believe you will do the same too if someone disses your religion.

Come onla....after 49 years of Independence are we succumbing to all this arguments about what or who is right and wrong ? Does that not show how immature our thinking are ?

You believe in your God and we believe in ours....so leave it be.Isn't that what being Malaysian is all about . Underneath all our differences...we are brothers and sisters....Malaysian.

Thank You.
DEAR yusmur and all other muslims, i am immature? it is muslims who are immature , you force belief on your own people and dont even bat an eyellid to carry out commands that violates human rights, commands that MAY not be from GOD after all. you say that shariah law only affects muslims? think again.

somewhere in 2002, an indian hindu man with an  indian hindu wife (yes in malaysia), became "gatal", and fell in love with a malay muslim woman. as we all know malay women are beautiful, so this fellow couldnt tahan...so they got married,but he converted to islam first. in islam a man can marry up to 4 wives legally. This man knew the advantage that shariah law would give to muslims, so he took it. he didnt even have to divorce his hindu wife, and he did not even tell her about it, until she couldnt find him..later she found out the truth. she was trying to seek an annulment of the marriage with the malay woman through the civil courts, but the civil courts said they couldnt intefere with the shariah courts. Even the NGO sisters in islam tried to get her case to be heard, but their appeals were turned down.  The only option was for the hindu wife to seek divorce, but i  honestly do not know wheteher she got any alimony from her husband or not, because there was a media blackout about this case.  1 point.
another point is if a non muslim converts to islam and dies, whatever property that is left behind, will be given to the muslim relatives only, no matter if there is  will written that says the properties should go to the non muslim relatives. so it is clear that in islam, muslims are given much higher priority than non muslims (dhimmie).

so in order to treat every one equally, only secular courts should be the supreme law. muslims, please dont react with anger, and start calling names.

Debmey

Originally posted by MENJ at 21-9-2006 08:02 PM


All Christian evangelists despise Karen Armstrong because she is a fair, unbiased person who does not take sides. It is not that what she says about Islam is correct all the time, but I still g ...

Not just Christians but buddhists, hindus and ex muslims as well.

MENJ

Originally posted by Debmey at 21-9-2006 09:26 PM

Not just Christians but buddhists, hindus and ex muslims as well.

Yeah all Islamophobes. How unsurprising.

- MENJ

yusmar

Originally posted by ALFLOSS at 21-9-2006 08:47 PM
DEAR yusmur and all other muslims, i am immature? it is muslims who are immature , you force belief on your own people and dont even bat an eyellid to carry out commands that violates human rights, commands that MAY not be from GOD after all. you say that shariah law only affects muslims? think again.

somewhere in 2002, an indian hindu man with an  indian hindu wife (yes in malaysia), became "gatal", and fell in love with a malay muslim woman. as we all know malay women are beautiful, so this fellow couldnt tahan...so they got married,but he converted to islam first. in islam a man can marry up to 4 wives legally. This man knew the advantage that shariah law would give to muslims, so he took it. he didnt even have to divorce his hindu wife, and he did not even tell her about it, until she couldnt find him..later she found out the truth. she was trying to seek an annulment of the marriage with the malay woman through the civil courts, but the civil courts said they couldnt intefere with the shariah courts. Even the NGO sisters in islam tried to get her case to be heard, but their appeals were turned down.  The only option was for the hindu wife to seek divorce, but i  honestly do not know wheteher she got any alimony from her husband or not, because there was a media blackout about this case.  1 point.
another point is if a non muslim converts to islam and dies, whatever property that is left behind, will be given to the muslim relatives only, no matter if there is  will written that says the properties should go to the non muslim relatives. so it is clear that in islam, muslims are given much higher priority than non muslims (dhimmie).

so in order to treat every one equally, only secular courts should  

dear ALFLOSS,

1st....my name is Yusmar....2nd.....if you read your story abt the hindu man....he converted therefore shariah law applies in his case...and like you yourself said....he is gatal kan?

Sisters in Islam tried to help him....therefore...not all muslims are evil.....so back to my point which I have stated many times.....religion....any religion teaches us to do good....but humans being humans interpret it whichever way they want to.....so like I said....debating about which religion is right and wrong will never end because all of us have our own beliefs.

Instead of arguing....why don't we move forward....try to better ourselves and living with each other in peace and care. Isn't that what being tolerance is all about?
So what if some Muslims are not tolerance....because there are bound to be people in other race and religion who are not either....why be like them? Why can't we make a difference by being a united Malaysian regardless of color, race and religion.

Thank you.

nightlord

MENJ SAID

Actually I have read the Pope's speech. In fact I have the whole text in PDF. So no need to make stupid accusations before you actually verify your facts

THEN TELL YOUR FELLOW MUSLIMS THAT IT WAS AN INTELLECTUAL DISCOURSE IN A UNIVERSTY.

But then again your fellow muslims may not understand it anyway, so they may as usual make a fool of themselves, and so called "intellectuals" like yourself are keeping quiet about the truth because you rather see the idiocy and violence rather than reason.

nightlord

Hey Yusmar how are u.

MENJ

Originally posted by nightlord at 22-9-2006 03:06 AM
THEN TELL YOUR FELLOW MUSLIMS THAT IT WAS AN INTELLECTUAL DISCOURSE IN A UNIVERSTY.

Which, at the same time, he quoted from an ignorant Byzantine emperor and insulted Islam.

- MENJ

nightlord

Quoting a source can never be insulting.

Refering to a subject matter is just that, it does not imply personal belief in that subject matter.

Maybe thats why you are finding it so hard in your studies MENJ, you can hardly tell the difference.

MENJ

Originally posted by nightlord at 22-9-2006 03:24 AM
Quoting a source can never be insulting.

Quoting AND endorsing it is insulting.

- MENJ

yusmar

Originally posted by nightlord at 22-9-2006 03:09 AM
Hey Yusmar how are u.

Hi nightlord....am doing great and hope you are too. I see everyone is still at it . Well....let's continue discussing with the understanding of enhancing our knowledge on each others beliefs to create tolerance okay.

Peace Malaysians.

yusmar said-

dear ALFLOSS,

1st....my name is Yusmar....2nd.....if you read your story abt the hindu man....he converted therefore shariah law applies in his case...and like you yourself said....he is gatal kan?

Sisters in Islam tried to help him....therefore...not all muslims are evil.....so back to my point which I have stated many times.....religion....any religion teaches us to do good....but humans being humans interpret it whichever way they want to.....so like I said....debating about which religion is right and wrong will never end because all of us have our own beliefs.

Instead of arguing....why don't we move forward....try to better ourselves and living with each other in peace and care. Isn't that what being tolerance is all about?
So what if some Muslims are not tolerance....because there are bound to be people in other race and religion who are not either....why be like them? Why can't we make a difference by being a united Malaysian regardless of color, race and religion.

Thank you.

sorry i typed your name wrong !

i am sorry for pressing this subject on, but i feel you are not getting the point of it.
Yes that hindu man was gatal. fine. And you were wrong, sisters in islam was trying to help the wife. not help him. because the wife needs justice. did i say muslims are evil? i said shariah law is not a Just and equal law. please read carefully what i said. but so what if he is gatal, is that allright then , to circumvent the rights of the non muslim woman, whose husband could just marry a muslim woman, and convert to islam, without even informing the wife? and the shariah law allows this?
shouldnt the man divorce his wife first, then the courts settle the alimony payments, then he can marry the muslim woman.but what is happening now is he just convert, marry the muslim woman, then bye bye hindu wife...

this is to tell muslims that shariah law will always place the muslims on a pedestal, and a muslims place will always be higher than a dhimmi. and you did not even reply to me about the property diversion between muslim and non muslim relatives? so you are not denying this then? instead you just want us all to move on to make a better malaysia? of course we all want to move on and make a better malaysia. but how can we, when such oppresive religious laws only based on faith are put in place, and also subjugates the rights of the non beleivers?

i am arguing not on a standpoint of theological differences between islam christianity or whatever religion. christians can beleive that jesus died for thier sins on the cross, muslims will always say that is wrong, muslims can always beleive that muhhamad is the last messenger of god, and the jews could beleive that both christian and islam is wrong, whatever you want to beleive, is allright. dont you see i am not arguing on the basis of an opposing religion? i am just telling you that religious laws are always biased, therefore in order to apply equal justice to ALL peoples, then no justice system such as the shariah should be implemented.

then and only then we can all move on being united without poitnitng out our differences of clolour ,creed and whatever else !

[ Last edited by  ALFLOSS at 23-9-2006 02:28 PM ]

as usual, muslims just ignore the injustices.

Originally posted by ALFLOSS at 26-9-2006 12:56 PM
as usual, muslims just ignore the injustices.

Your definition of injustice is when you lose out...but when others (like Muslims) lose out you feel very just...and you just keep silent...

[ Last edited by  KENNKID at 26-9-2006 01:00 PM ]

yusmar

Originally posted by ALFLOSS at 23-9-2006 02:23 PM
sorry i typed your name wrong !

i am sorry for pressing this subject on, but i feel you are not getting the point of it.
Yes that hindu man was gatal. fine. And you were wrong, sisters in islam was trying to help the wife. not help him. because the wife needs justice. did i say muslims are evil? i said shariah law is not a Just and equal law. please read carefully what i said. but so what if he is gatal, is that allright then , to circumvent the rights of the non muslim woman, whose husband could just marry a muslim woman, and convert to islam, without even informing the wife? and the shariah law allows this?
shouldnt the man divorce his wife first, then the courts settle the alimony payments, then he can marry the muslim woman.but what is happening now is he just convert, marry the muslim woman, then bye bye hindu wife...

this is to tell muslims that shariah law will always place the muslims on a pedestal, and a muslims place will always be higher than a dhimmi. and you did not even reply to me about the property diversion between muslim and non muslim relatives? so you are not denying this then? instead you just want us all to move on to make a better malaysia? of course we all want to move on and make a better malaysia. but how can we, when such oppresive religious laws only based on faith are put in place, and also subjugates the rights of the non beleivers?

i am arguing not on a standpoint of theological differences between islam christianity or whatever religion. christians can beleive that jesus died for thier sins on the cross, muslims will always say that is wrong, muslims can always beleive that muhhamad is the last messenger of god, and the jews could beleive that both christian and islam is wrong, whatever you want to beleive, is allright. dont you see i am not arguing on the basis of an opposing religion? i am just telling you that religious laws are always biased, therefore in order to apply equal justice to ALL peoples, then no justice system such as the shariah should be implemented.

then and only then we can all move on being united without poitnitng out our differences of clolour ,creed and whatever else !

. ...

Dear ALFLOSS,

I get your point alright but you don't seem to get my point.

We can keep on bringing out all the injustice in whatever laws in the whole wide world but where does it lead us ? To more arguments and misunderstanding....why?

For me and it is solely my opinion.....I may not agree with some of the religious laws either but we are doing something about it.....to make the necessary changes to suit the NOW....not THEN.

And...if I was that man's wife and this had happened to me.....after the shariah court has finalise the marriage.... I will then take him to court and sue him....why not....no money? I am sure there are a lot of lawyers who are willing to do it Probono.

The shariah laws IS for Muslims......yes...but there are ways to overcome situation at hand. I too do not argue according to religion etc. but what I do believe is like what I have mentioned earlier. Religion is personal to each and everyone of us . Why don't we make the best and understand our religion fully and then after that we learn about the religion of others with open mind.....and move on.

one man's meat is another man's poison....the best way to survive....eat your meat and be happy with it.

Thank you