Ezekiel 23:3 & Paradise

Truth.8

Originally posted by SilentKiller at 20-9-2006 12:50 PM


Still you are not answering my straightforward question. Afraid or have no answer ?

afraid or u lost ? i guess u knew the answer but trying be winner here but too bad u lost. hahahahha

So is that mean every erotic novels which have lurid sexual detail but in the end have good moral value can be classified as not erotic ? Can give straight answer ?

Whats so difficult for u to give me a staight answer for my question ?

Waiting for your reply on my post #62 Truth.8

Truth.8

Originally posted by SilentKiller at 20-9-2006 01:30 PM
Waiting for your reply on my post #62 Truth.8

Here we will answer the bogus claims made by Osama Abdullah on his site about Pornography in the Bible. His excerpts are in Green.



The Bible has some really weird things in it that you would really be ashamed to even share with your own little kids!  It teaches you to fantasize about women's breasts and vaginas.  It also teaches you to sleep with your own sister!  Read all of the verses below.



Let us look at Ezekiel 23:20 "There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals [penises] were like those of donkeys and whose emission [the amount of semen output] was like that of horses."  The Bible here is praising the lovers by comparing the size of their penises with the donkeys' and the power and speed that the semen come out with that of horses'.



When the reader goes and reads this passage of scripture we see that the Bible isn? praising the lovers nor comparing how fast semen comes out of horses.  Mr. Osama is good at making accusations without posting context from the Bible.  The word for ?enitals? translated by the NIV, is BASAR, which means flesh!  This word is used for flesh 99% of the time.  The word for genitals in Hebrew is ?very meen?.  You can check this out for yourself in a Hebrew dictionary.  If you read from Ezekiel 23:19-22?

19 Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt.

20 There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.

21 So you longed for the lewdness of your youth, when in Egypt your bosom was caressed and your young breasts fondled. [1]

22 "Therefore, Oholibah, this is what the Sovereign LORD says: I will stir up your lovers against you, those you turned away from in disgust, and I will bring them against you from every side--

1.21 Syriac (see also verse 3); Hebrew caressed because of your young breasts



Note: I used the NIV since Osama loves this bible. The word ?enitals? is here was put there because the translators figured the emission of semen relayed more to that. However this same translation, which is based on the Hebrew bible just like any other translation. IN Hebrew genitals isn? present so Osama is attacking Christianity from a paraphrased translation of the Bible.  No scholar would claim that the NIV is the best and most accurate translation of the Hebrew text.  We see that Oholibah was a prostitute, something Osama didn? mention, and that in vs. 22 Yahweh is going to punish her for her wickedness.  I don? know how it? porn when we see how Yahweh is going to punish a prostitute.  Mr. Osama must condone prostitution of women, which explains a link on his site where you find wives like they are property--http://www.answering-christianity.com/personal.htm.  The Bible clearly shows us that this promiscuous woman would be judged.



Let us look at Genesis 38:9 "But Onan knew that the offspring would not be his; so whenever he lay with his brother's wife, he spilled his semen on the ground to keep from producing offspring for his brother."   Why should the Bible picture for us the sexual experience that Onan was having?  Is this appropriate?



This is very appropriate because it lets us know how to investigate adultery.  By looking at this verse we see how a man can try to get away with adultery by not allowing the woman to get pregnant.  However what Osama doesn? post is the very next verse of Genesis 38:10-



What he did was wicked in the LORD's sight; so he put him to death also.



Mr. Osama tries to promote the idea of Porn in the Bible but he never shows scriptures like these!!! He is such a liar.  Yahweh himself killed Onan, which lets us know clear and well how much he hates sin.  Since Osama didn? post Genesis 38:10 the very next verse, he must obviously enjoy this, if he doesn? then he should?e posted how Yahweh punished Onan.



Checkout this contradiction:  In Genesis 34:1-2, Shechem raped Dinah, Jacob's daughter.  Deuteronomy 22:28-30 clearly states that if a man rapes a single virgin girl, then she must become his wife and they can't get divorced forever.  We read in Genesis 34:25-31 that Jacob's sons killed the rapist (Shechem) and his tribe.  Jacob did not show any objection at all toward violating GOD's laws.  He only showed objection because he feared revenge from the other related tribes.  The two sons claimed that they did that because they felt their sister was treated like a prostitute by the rape act.  It just amazes me that even the Bible's Prophets don't obey its laws!!.



This isn? a contradiction because Genesis occurred long before Deuteronomy.  How could Jacob disobey a law that was given almost 1000 years later?  Jacob lived before Joseph, the Hebrew captives, Moses and Joshua.  The only way Jacob would know about this was to build a time Machine and then travel into the future!!!  Muslims accept this silly argument because they don? know the history of the Bible, much like Osama.



Let us look at Genesis 38:15-16 "When Judah saw her, he thought she was a prostitute, for she had covered her face.  Not realizing that she was his daughter-in-law, he went over to her by the roadside and said, 'Come now, let me sleep with you.'"  Judah is supposed to be one of the Bible's holy figures.  Yet, he quickly would sleep with a prostitute.  Talk about teaching the kids good morals right from the Bible.



Mr. Osama is using the Islamic fallacy of ?very prophet is perfect?.  Judah was a normal fallible man who was susceptible to sin also.  I notice that Osama didn? mention anything about Muhammad marrying and sleeping with his daughter-in-law Zaid.  Also read vs. 25-26?



25 As she was being brought out, she sent a message to her father-in-law. "I am pregnant by the man who owns these," she said. And she added, "See if you recognize whose seal and cord and staff these are."

26 Judah recognized them and said, "She is more righteous than I, since I wouldn't give her to my son Shelah." And he did not sleep with her again.



In Christianity and Islam, we see that God forgives sin.  Judah admitted with sorrow that she was more righteous than him!  It takes a good role model to admit mistakes and fly right!  Of course Muhammad never did this, which shows just how wimpy he is.



More on sex and rape:  In Genesis 39:7-23, the wife of Joseph's master tries to get Joseph to go to bed with her. He refuses, and flees leaving his "garment in her hand." She claims that Joseph tried to rape her, and Joseph ends up imprisoned.



What in the world is wrong with this?  This is letting you know how Joseph resisted this act and was imprisoned falsely for this matter.  This would be a good lesson to teach your kids on how faith in God might get you unfairly punished but greatly rewarded.  Muhammad felt like it was important so he put it in the Quran!! Just read Surah 12.  I guess this must be pornography in the Quran too!!!  In fact the illiterate, hallucinogenic prophet of Allah seems to not even know how much Joseph was sold for in this Surah!!!



Let us look at Numbers 31:17 "Now kill all the boys [innocent kids].  And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man."  Take the virgin women and rape them.



The Bible doesn? tell you to rape the women.  Another lie, by Bible neophyte Osama.  If you read Numbers 31:16, you see that these people caused God? people to commit sins against the sovereign Yahweh.  Through war, God was bringing judgment upon the unbelievers.  It? funny how Osama tries to use this since we can easily point out tons of verses that tell people to kill the unbeliever in the Quran.  My dear reader, a hypocrite can? judge the Bible especially since his prophet commanded his believers to kill based on hi own merits compared to Moses who followed God.



Even GOD enjoys raping virgin women in Numbers 31:35-40 "[From the captives of war] 32,000 women who had never slept with a man.......of which the tribute for the LORD was 32 [virgin women]."



It doesn? say anywhere in these scriptures that God enjoyed raping women, another reason why Osama lies by posting out of context.  If Osama knew anything about the Bible he would?e known that these 32 people weren? used in a sexual fashion but would be dedicated to God, like Samuel.



Let us look at Deuteronomy 28:15,30 "However, if you do not obey the LORD your God and do not carefully follow all his commands and decrees I am giving you today, all these curses will come upon you and overtake you......You will be pledged to be married to a woman, but another will take her and ravish her."  Too much open sexuality in the Bible, even in GOD's threats to you for not following His commands to make you marry a "used woman".



I just don? believe that Osama would embarrass himself with posting this.  In Deuteronomy 28:15, it talks about how God curses people for not following his commandments not sex.?



15 However, if you do not obey the LORD your God and do not carefully follow all his commands and decrees I am giving you today, all these curses will come upon you and overtake you:


all rebuked at : http://answer-islam.org/AnsweringPornography.htm

Originally posted by Truth.8 at 20-9-2006 01:51 PM


Here we will answer the bogus claims made by Osama Abdullah on his site about Pornography in the Bible. His excerpts are in Green.



The Bible has some really weird things in it that you  ...

So is that mean every erotic novels which have lurid sexual detail but in the end have good moral value can be classified as not erotic ? Can give straight answer ?

Truth.8

Originally posted by SilentKiller at 20-9-2006 01:53 PM


So is that mean every erotic novels which have lurid sexual detail but in the end have good moral value can be classified as not erotic ? Can give straight answer ?

The straight answer is simple above.

Originally posted by Truth.8 at 20-9-2006 02:25 PM



The straight answer is simple above.

So your answer is Bible can be classified as Erotic is it ? Muahahaha

SquiZZ

Originally posted by SilentKiller at 20-9-2006 01:53 PM


So is that mean every erotic novels which have lurid sexual detail but in the end have good moral value can be classified as not erotic ? Can give straight answer ?

Stupid question. Erotic novels ARE classified as EROTIC NOVELS. The bible is NOT a erotic novel.

Originally posted by SquiZZ at 20-9-2006 04:50 PM


Stupid question. Erotic novels ARE classified as EROTIC NOVELS. The bible is NOT a erotic novel.

Bible do have erotic lines, how about that ?

Originally posted by SilentKiller at 20-9-2006 11:50 AM


My question here is, is it neccesary to show sexual fantasies in lurid details such as donkeys genital, horses emissions and breasts fondled to outline the moral of the story ?

neccesary or not is not the question here is it...

if you muslims cannot handle words like this, how can you handle the world around you???

Originally posted by me at 20-9-2006 07:20 PM


neccesary or not is not the question here is it...

if you muslims cannot handle words like this, how can you handle the world around you???

What a silly answer! Can u preach these words to your kids? Its not neccesassy to use these words. Good erotic story!

Originally posted by SilentKiller at 20-9-2006 08:06 PM


What a silly answer! Can u preach these words to your kids? Its not neccesassy to use these words. Good erotic story!

i dont have kids...

and i seem to handle it well...

and so does million others...

but why not you...???

[ Last edited by  me at 20-9-2006 08:58 PM ]

SquiZZ

Originally posted by SilentKiller at 20-9-2006 05:19 PM


Bible do have erotic lines, how about that ?

Sinful act (which is a parable btw) and which God condemned in the end.

Originally posted by SquiZZ at 20-9-2006 10:33 PM


Sinful act (which is a parable btw) and which God condemned in the end.

If an erotic novel contains lurid sexual details but have a good moral value in the end, its still classified as erotic novel. Why Ezekiel 23 which have lurid sexual fantasies with filty words cant be classified as erotic although it have good moral value in the end? Yet u call it God's word ? Does your God use filty words to give examples of moral values ?

SquiZZ

Originally posted by SilentKiller at 21-9-2006 10:50 AM
If an erotic novel contains lurid sexual details but have a good moral value in the end, its still classified as erotic novel. .

Erotic novels are as it is use eroticity as it main theme. The bible is NOT based on eroticity. How about medical book that explicitly explain in details about man and women suxuality, position and all kind of things that most of us called taboo.

Why Ezekiel 23 which have lurid sexual fantasies with filty words cant be classified as erotic although it have good moral value in the end?

Filthy to us now maybe, but not in biblical times.

Yet u call it God's word ? Does your God use filty words to give examples of moral values ?

God can use whatever means necessary. Even the filthy words as you claimed as long man can undestand them correctly.

MENJ

Nobody has the balls to take up this challenge, I guess.

The Challenge

It is also amusing that the missionary decided to quote the Prophet (P) and then ?onveniently? disparage the late Sheikh Ahmed Deedat, the doyen of Muslim responses to Christian missionary attacks, of blasphemy. Our response to his allegation is that we challenge this missionary to educate his own children on the evils of fornication by asking them to act out the event live in a play or school drama, word for word as per recorded in Ezekiel 23. I would be most happy to lend a hand in writing out such a script and will allow to let his own children to be the principal actors in such a play or school drama for Sunday school. Certainly, this is not an ?utrageous? demand if the missionary himself does not consider this to be ?lasphemy? or find any problems with the text of Ezekiel 23. This challenge is also open to his fellow missionaries

Until the missionary or his cohorts have the courage to meet our above challenge, we as Muslims will continue to criticise the unappropriate and steamy language of Ezekiel 23 and object to its unnatural imagery. Such a passage is most certainly not ?nspired? from God Almighty.

http://www.bismikaallahuma.org/a ... disgusting-language

- MENJ

Originally posted by SquiZZ at 21-9-2006 11:16 AM

Erotic novels are as it is use eroticity as it main theme. The bible is NOT based on eroticity. How about medical book that explicitly explain in details about man and women suxuality, position a ...

Erotic novels are as it is use eroticity as it main theme. The bible is NOT based on eroticity. How about medical book that explicitly explain in details about man and women suxuality, position and all kind of things that most of us called taboo.

Medical books are written by Human, its not God's word.

Filthy to us now maybe, but not in biblical times.

What u mean here ? Its not filty ?

God can use whatever means necessary. Even the filthy words as you claimed as long man can undestand them correctly.

Its where u dont know to diffrentiate between God's word, and Human written erotic story !

MENJ

Still no balls to meet the challlenge. How predictable.

- MENJ

Originally posted by MENJ at 21-9-2006 07:44 PM
Still no balls to meet the challlenge. How predictable.

- MENJ

why need to challenge??

isnt it in the bible...

and its been teach all around the world...

to all the young and old, and children...

you are challenging people to do something that has been done...

and thats being done right now...


like i said before...

million, even billion of christian seem to handle it well...

i seem to handle it well...

but why you muslims cant even handle tiny little words like that...

[ Last edited by  me at 21-9-2006 09:17 PM ]

MENJ

Originally posted by me at 21-9-2006 09:16 PM



why need to challenge??

isnt it in the bible...

and its been teach all around the world...

to all the young and old, and children...

you are challenging people to do something tha ...

You are still avoiding the challenge. Been reading Ezekiel 23 publicly lately?

- MENJ