Animals performs homosexuality. why God allowed this??

Originally posted by Truth.8 at 11-11-2006 11:56 AM



is not i cannot answere,  muslims give lously answered when we debate with them...just like the recent programe on forum islam how this members of forummer talk about 'lelaki lembut' until i ...

Then whats ur answer for my question ?

Truth.8

Originally posted by SilentKiller at 11-11-2006 12:07 PM


Then whats ur answer for my question ?

post the verses not the links. thanks

Originally posted by Truth.8 at 11-11-2006 12:31 PM


post the verses not the links. thanks

Actually im the one who asked you to post the verse which condems homosex in Bible. You failed to show me the verse. Admit it that ur Bible didnt condem homosex.

Truth.8

Originally posted by SilentKiller at 11-11-2006 12:59 PM


Actually im the one who asked you to post the verse which condems homosex in Bible. You failed to show me the verse. Admit it that ur Bible didnt condem homosex.

The Hebrews, for example, did not have a word for homosexuality. When they wanted to describe the forbidden activity, they had to say, "Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable" (Leviticus 18:22). Similarly, the Greeks had no word for homosexual. Paul had to explain: "Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another" (Romans 1:26?27). now can u show in your koran abt forbids homosexuality??



[ Last edited by  Truth.8 at 11-11-2006 01:03 PM ]

Originally posted by Truth.8 at 11-11-2006 01:01 PM




The Hebrews, for example, did not have a word for homosexuality. When they wanted to describe the forbidden activity, they had to say, "Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman;  ...

Where is the verse which condems homosex ?

Truth.8

Originally posted by SilentKiller at 11-11-2006 01:11 PM


Where is the verse which condems homosex ?

can show ur koran verses show condem homosex?? or u are supported of homosex??

Originally posted by Truth.8 at 11-11-2006 01:13 PM


can show ur koran verses show condem homosex?? or u are supported of homosex??

Lot said to his people, 揧ou commit such an abomination; no one in the world has done it before! You practice sex with the men, instead of the women. Indeed, you are a transgressing people.

Truth.8

[quote]Originally posted by SilentKiller at 11-11-2006 01:26 PM



Lot said to his people, 揧ou commit such an abomination; no one in the world has done it before! You practice sex with the men, instead of the women. Indeed, you are a transgressing people.

Truth.8

When God created the world, He established two institutions that continued after Mankind sinned. One was the Sabbath, a memorial of creation. The other was the marriage relationship between a husband and wife. Humans were created in the image of God, and they were given a power, that of procreation, that the angels did not have. The union of husband and wife, through sexual intercourse, made them one.

     "A man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh. " (Gen. 2:23, 24)

Ruth and Naomi
Ruth 1:16-17 and 2:10-11 describe their close friendship Perhaps the best known passage from this book is Ruth 1:16-17 which is often read out during opposite-sex and same-sex marriage and union ceremonies:

"Where you go I will go, and where you stay I will stay. Your people will be my people and your God my God. Where you die I will die, and there I will be buried. May the Lord deal with me, be it ever so severely, if anything but death separates you and me." (NIV)

Ruth 1:14, referring to the relationship between Ruth and Naomi, mentions that "Ruth clave onto her." (KJV) The Hebrew word translated here as "clave" is identical to that used in the description of a heterosexual marriage in Genesis 2:24: " Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh." (KJV)  

This book was probably included in the Hebrew Scriptures because King David was one of the descendents of Ruth. Although this same-sex friendship appears to have been very close, there is no proof that it was a sexually active relationship.



David and Jonathan
Passages in 1 Samuel & 2 Samuel describe, among other events, a extremely close bond between David and Jonathan. Jonathan was the son of King Saul, and next in line for the throne. But Samuel anointed David to be the next king. This produced a strong conflict in the mind of Saul.

Interpretation:  Religious conservatives generally view the friendship of David and Jonathan as totally non-sexual. They find it inconceivable that God would allow a famous king of Israel to be a homosexual.
Some religious liberals believe that David and Jonathan had a consensual homosexual relationship - in many ways, a prototype of many of today's gay partnerships. 7 Some important verses which describe their relationship are:  1 Samuel 18:1
"...Jonathan became one in spirit with David and he loved him as himself." (NIV)

"...the soul of Jonathan was knit with the soul of David, and Jonathan loved him as his own soul" (KJV)

Most translations use the term "soul" rather than "spirit" to describe the bond. They speak of an "immediate bond of love", their souls being "in unison," their souls being "knit", etc. Genesis 2:7, as written in the original Hebrew, describes how God blew the spirit into the body of Adam that God had formed from earth, so that Adam became a living soul. This means that "soul", in the ancient Israelite times, represents a combination of body and spirit. Thus the two men appear to have loved each other both physically and emotionally.

1 Samuel 18:2
"From that day, Saul kept David with him and did not let him return to his father's house." (NIV)

David left his parent's home and moved to Saul's where he would be with Jonathan. This is a strong indication that the relationship was extremely close. It echoes the passage marriage passage in Genesis 2:24: "Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh."

1 Samuel 18:3-4
"And Jonathan made a covenant with David because he loved him as himself. Jonathan took off the robe he was wearing and gave it to David, along with his tunic, and even his sword, his bow and his belt." (NIV)

Since people in those days did not wear underwear, Jonathan stripped himself naked in front of David. That would be considered extremely unusual behavior (then and now) unless their relationship was physical.

1 Samuel 18:20-21
"Now Saul's daughter Michal was in love with David, and when they told Saul about it, he was pleased. 'I will give her to him', he thought, 'so that she may be a snare to him and so that the hand of the Philistines may be against him'. Now you have a second opportunity to become my son-in-law" (NIV)

In the King James Version, the end of Verse 21 reads:

"Thou shalt this day be my son-in-law, in the one of the twain." (KJV)

Saul's belief was that David would be so distracted by a wife that he would not be an effective fighter and would be killed by the Philistines. He offered first his daughter Merab, but that was rejected, presumably by her. Then he offered Michal. There is an interesting phrase used at the end of verse 21. In both the NIV and KJV, it would seem that David's first opportunity to be a son-in-law was with the older daughter Merab, and his second was with the younger daughter Michal. The KJV preserves the original text in its clearest form; it implies that David would become Saul's son-in-law through "one of the twain." "Twain" means "two", so the verse seems to refer to one of Saul's two daughters. Unfortunately, this is a mistranslation. The underlined phrase "the one of" does not exist in the Hebrew original. The words are shown in italics in the King James Version; this is an admission by the translators that they made the words up. Thus, if the KJV translators had been truly honest, they would have written:

"Thou shalt this day be my son-in-law, in the twain."

In modern English, this might be written: "Today, you are son-in-law with two of my children" That would refer to both his son Jonathan and his daughter Michal. The Hebrew original would appear to recognize David and Jonathan's homosexual relationship as equivalent to David and Michal's heterosexual marriage. Saul may have approved or disapproved of the same-sex relationship; but at least he appears to have recognized it. The KJV highlight their re-writing of the Hebrew original by placing the three words in italics; the NIV translation is clearly deceptive.

1 Samuel 20:41
"After the boy had gone, David got up from the south side of the stone and bowed down before Jonathan three times, with is face to the ground. Then they kissed each other and wept together - but David wept the most." (NIV)

Other translations have a different ending to the verse:  "...and they kissed one another and wept with one another, until David exceeded." (KJV)
"...and they kissed one another and wept with one another until David got control of himself." (Amplified Bible)
"and they sadly shook hands, tears running down their cheeks until David could weep no more." (Living Bible)
"They kissed each other and wept together until David got control of himself." (Modern Language)
"They kissed each other and wept aloud together." (New American Bible)
"Then David and Jonathan kissed each other. They cried together, but David cried the most." (New Century Version)
"Then they kissed one another and shed tears together, until David's grief was even greater than Jonathan's." (Revised English Bible)
"...and they kissed one another and wept with one another until David recovered himself." (Revised Standard Version)


The translators of the Living Bible apparently could not handle the thought of two adult men kissing, so they mistranslated the passage by saying that the two men shook hands! This is somewhat less than honest. The original Hebrew text says that they kissed each other and wept together until David became great. The word which means "great" in this passage is "gadal" in the original Hebrew. The same word is used elsewhere in the Hebrew Scriptures to refer to King Solomon being greater than all other kings. Some theologians interpret "gadal" in this verse as indicating that David had an erection. However, the thoughts of David becoming sexually aroused after kissing Jonathan may have been too threatening for Bible translators. They either deleted the ending entirely or created one of their own.

2 Samuel 1:26
"I grieve for you, Jonathan my brother; you were very dear to me. Your love for me was wonderful, more wonderful than that of women."

In the society of ancient Israel, it was not considered proper for a man and woman to have a platonic relationship. Men and women rarely spoke to each other in public. Since David's only relationships with women would have been sexual in nature, then he must be referring to sexual love here. It would not make sense in this verse to compare platonic love for a man with sexual love for a woman; they are two completely different phenomenon. It would appear that David is referring to his sexual love for Jonathan.

Whats ur comment for the above homesex stories found in Bible ?

Truth.8

Originally posted by SilentKiller at 11-11-2006 01:45 PM


Whats ur comment for the above homesex stories found in Bible ?

i am asking u show me  koran verses that stated sin to same sex?


Those who engage in unlawful sexual relations must be put to death

Lev. 20:10 "`If a man commits adultery with another man's wife --with the wife of his neighbor --both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death.
     11"`If a man sleeps with his father's wife, he has dishonored his father. Both the man and the woman must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.
     12"`If a man sleeps with his daughter-in-law, both of them must be put to death. What they have done is a perversion; their blood will be on their own heads.
     13"`If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.
     14"`If a man marries both a woman and her mother, it is wicked. Both he and they must be burned in the fire, so that no wickedness will be among you.
     15"`If a man has sexual relations with an animal, he must be put to death, and you must kill the animal.
     16"`If a woman approaches an animal to have sexual relations with it, kill both the woman and the animal. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.
     17"`If a man marries his sister, the daughter of either his father or his mother, and they have sexual relations, it is a disgrace. They must be cut off before the eyes of their people. He has dishonored his sister and will be held responsible.
     18"`If a man lies with a woman during her monthly period and has sexual relations with her, he has exposed the source of her flow, and she has also uncovered it. Both of them must be cut off from their people.
     19"`Do not have sexual relations with the sister of either your mother or your father, for that would dishonor a close relative; both of you would be held responsible.
     20"`If a man sleeps with his aunt, he has dishonored his uncle. They will be held responsible; they will die childless. 21"`If a man marries his brother's wife, it is an act of impurity; he has dishonored his brother. They will be childless.

[ Last edited by  Truth.8 at 11-11-2006 01:56 PM ]

Originally posted by Truth.8 at 11-11-2006 01:49 PM


i am asking u show me  koran verses that stated sin to same sex?


Those who engage in unlawful sexual relations must be put to death

Lev. 20:10 "`If a man commits adultery with anot ...

Homosexuality is not allowed in Islam. There are various verses in Quran where Allah clearly says about Homosexuality.

We also (sent) Lut: he said to his people: "Do ye commit lewdness such as no people in creation (ever) committed before you? "For ye practice your lusts on men in preference to women: ye are indeed a people transgressing beyond bounds." - Holy Quran 7:80-81

"Of all the creatures in the world will ye approach males". "And leave those whom Allah has created for you to be your mates? Nay ye are a people transgressing (all limits)!" - Holy Quran 26:165-166

The end result for not giving up homosexuality was the destruction of entire cities

When Our decree issued We turned (the cities) upside down and rained down on them brimstones hard as baked clay spread layer on layer Marked as from thy Lord: nor are they ever far from those who do wrong! - Holy Quran 11:82-83

Originally posted by Truth.8 at 11-11-2006 01:49 PM


i am asking u show me  koran verses that stated sin to same sex?


Those who engage in unlawful sexual relations must be put to death

Lev. 20:10 "`If a man commits adultery with anot ...

Then why got homosex stories in Bible which goes unpunished ?

Truth.8

Originally posted by SilentKiller at 11-11-2006 01:59 PM


Then why got homosex stories in Bible which goes unpunished ?

u mind showing  what does koran says abt homosex and what sins?

the abv cut and paste is very simple, u took out of context. get a elders to explain but i doubt u do that because u just like deedat like to find faulth with God Holy Book.

Truth.8

Those committing homosexual acts received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion

     26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.
     28Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. 29They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

Commentary: There should be no doubt in the Christian's mind that the current AIDS crisis among today's homosexual community is a result of their perverse acts, the reception within themselves of the due penalty for their perversion (v. 27). Nevertheless, it is the Christian's duty to reach out to the lost, so that some may be brought to repentance, and thus be saved.

It is also a sad commentary on the state of so many of our politicians that many actually court the favor of the politically active gay and lesbian communities. Perhaps the last paragraph above explains the essence of the makeup of these politicians who "approve of those who practice them."

Rom. 2:17 Now you, if you call yourself a Jew; if you rely on the law and brag about your relationship to God; 18if you know his will and approve of what is superior because you are instructed by the law; 19if you are convinced that you are a guide for the blind, a light for those who are in the dark, 20an instructor of the foolish, a teacher of infants, because you have in the law the embodiment of knowledge and truth-- 21you, then, who teach others, do you not teach yourself? You who preach against stealing, do you steal? 22You who say that people should not commit adultery, do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples? 23You who brag about the law, do you dishonor God by breaking the law?

Rom. 6:18 You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness. 19I put this in human terms because you are weak in your natural selves. Just as you used to offer the parts of your body in slavery to impurity and to ever-increasing wickedness, so now offer them in slavery to righteousness leading to holiness. 20When you were slaves to sin, you were free from the control of righteousness. 21What benefit did you reap at that time from the things you are now ashamed of? Those things result in death! 22But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves to God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life. 23For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Originally posted by Truth.8 at 11-11-2006 02:03 PM


u mind showing  what does koran says abt homosex and what sins?

the abv cut and paste is very simple, u took out of context. get a elders to explain but i doubt u do that because u just like ...

Dont u understand english or what ? It was clear that Quran condems homosex. By the way, when u say Bible condems homosex, then why some churches conduct same sex marriages ? Why ?

Originally posted by Truth.8 at 11-11-2006 02:04 PM
Those committing homosexual acts received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion

     26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural rela ...

Thats not the answer for my post #110 question.

Truth.8

Originally posted by SilentKiller at 11-11-2006 02:15 PM


Dont u understand english or what ? It was clear that Quran condems homosex. By the way, when u say Bible condems homosex, then why some churches conduct same sex marriages ? Why ?

than why lots of muslims gays???

Originally posted by Truth.8 at 11-11-2006 02:17 PM


than why lots of muslims gays???

The difference is No law allowed in Islam for same sex marriage. But SOME CHURCHES CONDUCT SAME SEX MARRIAGES.

Obersliutenant

Originally posted by Truth.8 at 11-11-2006 11:53 AM



comparing plant and animals. can apple and orange be same?

Well of course they are... theyre both plants and fruits ! wakaka

what about homosexual bacteria in your body ?

[ Last edited by  Obersliutenant at 11-11-2006 03:08 PM ]