DCN unveils low-cost submarine

bravotwozero

Originally posted by Singalion at 24-11-2006 12:35 AM
:lol

Go read up about the shallow wtaers of South East Asia!!!!!

Since you admitted that Malaysian ordered Scorpenes are meant for deeper waters, and since there is no such deep waters in Sou ...

so now u really think that ur subs are the best to operate within this area huh......ok , let me give u a HEADS UP......

SJOORMEN Class....
1. with relatively small size of sub, do u really think it can carry a lot of battery cells.......with that small amount of battery cells , can it last longer underwater?......do u have any idea what is the percentage of snorting period must be carried out by this type of subs in order to stay longer underwater???.......simple answer , A LOTTTTTTTTT.....so when u perform a lot of snorting period, ur detection probability by ASW aircraft is HIGH.........

2. with the older design of hull, do u really thinks the hydrodynamic flow is good......i dont think so......because all newly design subs have ALBACORE shape to improve hydrodynamic flows in order to have better manouverability and more quiet subs....look at L.A Class, Scorpene, Amethys.....etc......

3. let say, ur subs can go shallower then the scorpene, do u have any idea of the danger of operating in shallower waters........i will tell u more about it
    1. Sudden Sharp Bank.....risk of collision and grounding....
    2. risk of detection....current technology allow us to sea a suddent changes on bioluminescence activities , it will be more visible at shallower water....so whenever a sub pass through a group of bioluminiscence they will disperse and creating a large ray of biolumiscence light underwater which could be easily deteced by aircraft.....

[ Last edited by  bravotwozero at 24-11-2006 06:08 AM ]

bravotwozero

Originally posted by Debmey at 24-11-2006 02:52 AM
er.. why does msia want subs to operate only in deep waters when it is surrounded by shallow waters, especially when the range of torpedoes are only about 20km? What is the doctrine of the navy?
I ...

it is not me the one telling u that false facts about SCORPENE OPERATING ONLY IN DEEP WATERS..........in facts scorpene was design to operate on shallow water

mdmee

IMHO .. aku rasa submarine tak boleh beroperasi di selat melaka .... takut tersangkut kat kapal kontenan ....

Laxamana.

Selat Melaka memang cetek banyak kawasan less than 30 kaki je dalam... Contoh KPerlis ke Langkawi maksimum 25 feet je... ade le lubuk dalam sikit satu dua tempat, tu je... Scorpene can operate both deep sea and shallow water... DCN cheap small subs like The marlin is good for Malacca Straits.. Song class is good as well...

Laxamana.

Scorpene can operate in both shallow and deep... Spratlys and Sabah waters is crucial for Scorpene when come to deep sea operation... Straits of Malacca is of secondary importance for the usage of subs it may seem... too shallow and in most instance can even be spotted from air.. But still, there are areas in Malacca Straits that Scorpene can operate... Indian Ocean, Langkawi..and even around Singapore waters and the south seas.

mmc

B20 semua.tak yah layang sangat mamat ni dengan factual datas sangat..dia bukan paham pun..kasi general facts nak kalahkan dia pun sudah...kut terlepas SOP pulak...

Laxamana.

Midget subs memang ada guna nya... dulu masa WWII, midget subs Jepun masuk sampai dalam Pearl Harbor sapa pun tak tau... sempat join tembak torpedo kapal US lagi... dah kena, baru sedar... PASKAL pun boleh guna midget subs ni... beli je 5 biji dulu dari Iran. Jual macam mana? Tak de diskaun ke? Berapa harga sebijik?

[ Last edited by  Laxamana. at 24-11-2006 10:35 AM ]

mmc

hmmm tadi singalion masuk tapi terus mencecet keluar rasanya...anyway bagi aku kalau tak mampu beli scorps/marlin tambahan...dapat tambah SMX pun okay utk coastal defence...dlm WWII pun reichsmarine pun mencapai kejayaan dengan kedua2 jenis submarine..

wow! lucky me : my first thread attracted some "notorious celebs " from across the friggin bridge!
although ima new here(not even a month old yet) i know few names for having an infamous reply.
You cant just come knocking on someone else door and say "Hey, my "pen" is bigger than yours!!",
toned it down a little will ya on the hostile comments. . .lets try have a much more intelligence conversations
here. I think you are capable of at least say something more constructive to relay ur opinion on this matter
are you not?

back to the topic: yes i totally agrees w/ mmc and you guys on the need for Malaysia to operate a coastal patrol
subs. Any other options  apart from the Iranian(midget sub??)  or DCN?

[ Last edited by  Sous-Chef at 24-11-2006 10:52 AM ]

Laxamana.

Midget sub Jepun yang tenggelam off Pearl Harbor... dulu berenang macam ikan di celah kapal-kapal US Pacific Fleet, siapa pun tak tau..

At 12.20 p.m. on August 28, 2002, the Pisces IV and Pisces V, two deep diving submersibles operated by the Hawai慽 Undersea Research Laboratory (HURL), found the Japanese midget submarine which was the first vessel sunk in the attack on Pearl Harbor, December 7th, 1941.




Midget submarine ni cuma 1 atau 2 crew je biasa nya.. Mother ship nya boleh dari platform sub jugak atau surface vessel macam LSD dll.  Simpan dalam bot dalam keadaan kering dan diturun guna kren pun boleh.


Jepun siap sembunyi midget sub dalam gua!One of the five Ko-hyoteki-class submarines managed to enter Pearl Harbor and successfully fired a torpedo into the USS West Virginia.


Japanese midget submarine off New Hanover island, Papua New Guinea. Image taken by Clark Anderson/Aquaimages. Banyak tempat operasi midget sub masa Jepun dulu..


Japanese midget sub WWII. A drawing made in July 1942 of a Japanese midget submarine, based on the submarines that took part in the raid on Sydney Harbour. About 25 metres long, the midget submarines divided into three sections, with door openings measuring only 33x76cm. Powered by batteries, their cruising speed would have been approximately 8 knots (14.8 kilometres per hour) with a top speed of 20 knots (37km/h).


The composite Japanese midget submarine on its way between Sydney and Melbourne in November 1942.

Saje je masukkan sikit sejarah penggunaan midget submarines yang sememangnya  berguna untuk sabotage dan espionage specops...

bravotwozero

Originally posted by mdmee at 24-11-2006 08:51 AM
IMHO .. aku rasa submarine tak boleh beroperasi di selat melaka .... takut tersangkut kat kapal kontenan ....

ada kebenarannya fakta saudara ni.....even midget subs not comfortable navigating through straits of malacca due to the shallow water, heavy concentration of merchant vessels and also a lot of bank......

but for ur info.....selat melaka merupakan the best location for operating a subs...not in the middle but at the end of it.....due to the nature of bottleneck geo factors, and the traffic itself....

a sub will only have to wait on the deeper side of the straits like in the northern area of Andaman Sea and at the end of Singapore straits....

kahmadz

macam pernah ku dengar ini..hmmm dari mana ya....?
Oh ya..! Dari laporan negara selatan..  kes kes kes!

bravotwozero

Originally posted by Debmey at 24-11-2006 02:52 AM
er.. why does msia want subs to operate only in deep waters when it is surrounded by shallow waters, especially when the range of torpedoes are only about 20km? What is the doctrine of the navy?
I ...

hohoho......doctrine of the navy????........hmm.....i have another good idea.....how about u tell us first what is ur naval doctrine on it.......

bravotwozero

Originally posted by kahmadz at 24-11-2006 05:04 PM
macam pernah ku dengar ini..hmmm dari mana ya....?
Oh ya..! Dari laporan negara selatan..  kes kes kes!

for ur info....i dont even read any of the reports made from the southern country....

so is there anything else i can help u mr KAHMADZ....

bravotwozero

Originally posted by Laxamana. at 24-11-2006 09:02 AM
Scorpene can operate in both shallow and deep... Spratlys and Sabah waters is crucial for Scorpene when come to deep sea operation... Straits of Malacca is of secondary importance for the usage of  ...

true indeed......in order to defend strait of malacca effectively we need a good Coastal Batteries instead of using subs......

Singalion

first of all,.....
1. do u have any experience sailing on any subs...typically 60m above long....i dont think so....tq....so dont talk cock about saying 60m subs cant be operated on shallow waters.

Don't even know the spec of your own SSSK, Malaysian ordered Scorpene which is the Basic variant with length of 66.4m, not 60m!!!!

Come here talk about experiences!!!:lol

second.....
2. do u really think , that ur small(in fact 'F' small),second hand submarine can last long ........i dont think so....tq

At least 3x time more submerged endurance than Scorpene Basic!!!!:lol

If you don't what I am talking about , go read  thses:

http://www.janes.com/defence/naval_forces/news/jni/jni051006_1_n.shtml

http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htsub/articles/20051107.aspx

third.....
3. do u really think that in case of conflict or war ur subs can last longer at sea more than scorpene........oooo i can answer that also......i dont think so.....tq

4  Coastal Challeger SSK + 2 future AIP SSK vs 2 non AIP Non coastal Scorpene!!!!
Quantity and quality also lose out , how to fight!!!!

fourth.....
4. do u really think subs are really comfortable to operate on shallow waters........oooo no no no...big no no.....

That is why I said "manoeuvrability will lose out as compare with coastal SSK in shallow waters "

I.e. smaller the better, you just contradicting yourself!!!!!!!!:lol

what the effff are u talking about.....66m was not classified as BIG submarine.....100m, yes a big submarine.....

60 to 70m subs is the best size of subs to operate in relatively shallow waters compromising all factors....taking into account habitability, height, loads, manouvering and etc.......

go back and do the research first then talk......shuhh shuhhh

I did not said that 66m Scorpene Basic  is not able to operate in coastal region I said that it will not be as manoeuvrable as compare with a smalller SSK, as you yourself said that : "do u really think subs are really comfortable to operate on shallow waters........oooo no no no...big no no....."

And yet you said "60 to 70m subs is the best size of subs to operate in relatively shallow waters compromising all factors...."

Is it that is true, that a smaller 51m coastal SSK will be more comfortable than the a larger 66m SSK like the Scorpene Basic!!!!!

Full of contradiction!!!

That is why DCN came out with the Scorpene Compact which is 59.4m long Coastal varient of Scorpene, which is specially design for such shallow waters for better performance as compare  to the  66m Scorpene Basic, otherwise why DCN spent time and money to design this coastal variant Scorpene!!!!

Don't know who should do some reading!!!!!!!:lol

Come to debate, don't come with contradictory statement!!!!!:lol

[ Last edited by  Singalion at 25-11-2006 12:40 PM ]

Laxamana.

Don't bragg about those few depleted Challenger class SSK, the system used is already getting out of date... u never know what is inside others anyway... well, nobody is talking about matching Singapore's subs in the shallow Straits of Malacca in the first place.

hijazzains

Originally posted by Singalion at 25-11-2006 03:04 AM


Don't even know the spec of your own SSSK, Malaysian ordered Scorpene which is the Basic variant with length of 66.4m, not 60m!!!!

  ...

Singalion,bravowatzero did say in his post that scorpene is 66m, u should not act so smart by finding spelling mistakes  which in the end makes you look arrogant.

Back to topic,IMO, RMN should acquire the smaller Scorpene basic which I believe still have many advantages over the smaller SMX midget submarines in terms of endurance and range. Malaysia's territory is wide and IMO we need also need subs that travel long distances to cover our vast coastal regions.

alphawolf

Sebenarnya combatant yang pertama jadi mangsa pada 7/12/1941 ialah midget sub Jepun. Masa serangan memang ada midget sub dalam pelabuhan tapi rasanya kemusnahan boleh dikatakan kerja pesawat 100%.

Tapi bagi saya operasi melibatkan midget sub paling berjaya ialah oleh British dan itali.

bravotwozero

[quote]Originally posted by Singalion at 25-11-2006 03:04 AM


Don't even know the spec of your own SSSK, Malaysian ordered Scorpene which is the Basic variant with length of 66.4m, not 60m!!!!

Come here talk about experiences!!!:lol

[ Last edited by  bravotwozero at 27-11-2006 02:34 PM ]