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Author: cloud_hardcore

Seni bela diri-kongsi pendapat-

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 Author| Post time 25-1-2007 04:37 AM | Show all posts

Reply #40 Amiin_al_Kalam's post

yg rasmi nye seni silat gayong malaysia.....
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Post time 25-1-2007 12:53 PM | Show all posts

Another article to share with you guys/girls

How many techniques are enough?

Maybe the title for this article should be "How
many techniques are too much." Here is the point: Can the
average person who is being attacked and under a full
adrenal rush recall his self defense techniques? Are most
systems too complicated, involved, or requiring way too
much fine motor skills to pull off in a real attack?

Let's look at an attack scenario. Suppose our intended
victim is going to his car late one night in a several
story parking garage which has a number of cars parked
in it and there is no one around.

Suddenly he notices movement out of the corner of his
left eye. He turns to see someone approaching him quickly
between two parked cars. The guy asks him a question as he
approaches. "Have you seen a black BMW on this level?" The
question is designed to distract the victim as the attacker
closes the gap. In another second the guy is within three
feet of our friend and a half second later is all over him,
grabbing him around the waist and arms and lifting him from
the ground.

Fear strikes hard and our victim freezes in his tracks. His
heart beat is approaching 150 in a matter of seconds as he
is under a heavy adrenaline dump.

He has had about two years of formal martial arts training but
somehow everything is happening so fast he can't recall the
specific technique he has practiced many times in class.

Panic insues. Another second goes by and he realizes he is being
throw to the ground. He hits hard shocking his body and dulling
his senses. He barely feels the punches now raining on his face
as he goes into a state of shock and disbelief that this is really
happening to him.

Within a few more fleeting seconds his wallet is taken and his
attacker is running down the exit ramp.

So what went wrong? Two years of training two or three times a
week and he gets his butt whipped in a couple of shocking seconds
without landing a blow. Worse, he never even attemps a single
technique. Why?

For one thing, he was totally unaccustomed to this strong fear
induced adrenal dump. He didn't know how to react because he
had so many self defense techniques in his head and with his
cognitive thinking blurred (one major effect of adrenaline) he
was not able to pull up a single one to use in the few split
seconds he had to react.

We see this all the time in our adrenal stress response training
classes (F.A.S.T. Defense). We have even had very experienced black
belt instructors freeze up or flail inefectively the first few
times they were subjected to a good dose of adrenaline.

This why we try to limit the techniques we use to a handful or so.
Additionally we "stack" these techniques so that they are used
in similar attacks. I call this a "build on factor". This simply
means that one technique builds upon another and that a few simple
sequences are able to be used for a number of different attacks.
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Post time 26-1-2007 03:18 AM | Show all posts
ASM.
Bagus artikel nih. kalau boleh aku nak bagi siket pandangan:

How many techniques are enough? -
In my opinion, the answer is "unlimited". Simply because real things require real responses and real responses may not be the so called "techniques" learned or used during training sessions. The failure made by most martial arts practitioners in real combat situations is "searching for the techniques: rather than "the techniques" searching for them...


Can the average person who is being attacked and under a full
adrenal rush recall his self defense techniques? -

"Recall" is something that I would say, "impossible" during real combat situations. The reality is that, one can never be in normal or average situation that we wants but rather what the situation wants him or her to be in. If he/her wants to think, forget it. The brain will not response accordingly. In fact, in most cases, thinking just leading to failure and the so called "adrenaline dump" will appear. The so called "techniques" learned during years of traning is actually something that live in your blood and it stays in your heart. I think "recall" should be replace with "reflex". So develop the reflex.

Are most systems too complicated, involved, or requiring way too
much fine motor skills to pull off in a real attack? -

The best driver always fit for the best car. The best is not the one who managed to memorised the "techniques" but the one actually understand the fundamental elements in the art and able to generate new frontiers in what he learned. If he/she achieved this level, "complicated" will seized to exist...

For any reality, one should be in reality. Training is not a reality, it is just a simulation or rather a place to learn and to get friends! In my humble opinion, if one can really understand the reason why martial arts exist, the question of "useless techniques", "adrenaline dump" etc. will be easily answered and countered.

From the article:
"So what went wrong? Two years of training two or three times a
week and he gets his butt whipped in a couple of shocking seconds
without landing a blow. Worse, he never even attemps a single
technique. Why?"  -

Nothing is wrong actually. The person is just trying to react according to what he believes in. Two years of training is actually good for a start but it is not enough to produced the desired results. There is no such thing as "easy paths" in martial art...any martial arts. To understand the "core" of the art he learned, time is always the essence. It is not really how many times you trained yourself but rather what you gained during a single training session.

Also from the article:
This why we try to limit the techniques we use to a handful or so.
Additionally we "stack" these techniques so that they are used
in similar attacks. I call this a "build on factor". This simply
means that one technique builds upon another and that a few simple
sequences are able to be used for a number of different attacks.

This is good, but in my opinion, it is good if you are learning something...not while you are going to use it in real situation. Limiting what you have will only send negative signals to your senses.
Well, my opinion may not be correct but as something that we can share together, why not right

Salam dari fakir yang tiada...
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 Author| Post time 28-1-2007 09:24 PM | Show all posts
byk buah pukulan xsemesti handal.....
jika tahu byk teknik tetapi teknik itu tidak menjadi hak xgune gak...
tp selagi ade, blajar....
yg penting buat latihan dan hayati teknik yg dipelajari...
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Post time 29-1-2007 01:22 AM | Show all posts
buat la sampai datang latah
jadi motor jalan sendiri la lepas tu
caranya banyak training
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 Author| Post time 29-1-2007 02:47 AM | Show all posts

Reply #45 gentik's post

yup...
byk kan tranning....
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Post time 29-1-2007 12:04 PM | Show all posts

Fight Science

Semalam aku ada tengok National Geographics kat Astro,tajuk dia Fight Science.Dalam rancangan  tu saintis telah menjalankan kajian secara ilmiah mengenai pukulan dalam martial arts ni.Eksperimen dijalankan di dalam sebuah makmal cum dojo.Saintis terdiri dari jurutera mekanikal yang menjalankan crash test untuk sebuah syarikat automotif..Dalm  rancangan macam macam benda yang dia kaji macam tumbukan,tendangan dan senjata.Mereka mengunakan crash test dummies untuk mengambil data. martial artists yang dipanggil terdiri dari aliran taekwando,karate,boxing,muay thai,ninjitsu dan kungfu..Dalam aspek tumbukan,boxing yang plaing power.muay thai menang dalam aspek melutut.Semasa orang muay thai nih melutut ke dada crash test dummies,chest compression dummy masuk kedalam sebanyak 2 inci di mana boleh menyebabkan cardiac arrest.Lagi satu demo yang ditunjukkan oleh seorang ahli ninjitsu,tumbukan tepat dan kuat ke bawah ketiak boleh menyebabkan lawan lumpuh sementara. Sementara tumbukan ke dada dalam kekuatan sepenuh hati dalam masa yang singkat boleh membunuh.

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 Author| Post time 29-1-2007 12:34 PM | Show all posts

Reply #47 adwim79's post

thanks 4 the info....
mintak kedit ng mod....hehehe
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Post time 30-1-2007 10:42 AM | Show all posts

Reply #48 cloud_hardcore's post

Takpa..Ikhlas..Ahakss....
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 Author| Post time 30-1-2007 10:39 PM | Show all posts

Reply #49 adwim79's post

mod xyah bg ar kedit kt adwin ni...
die ikhlas.......

hehehehe
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Post time 1-2-2007 05:38 PM | Show all posts
Bagus sekali perbincangan di atas. Saya juga pernah mengalami adrenalin dump ni semasa diserang road bully dulu. Terbukti semuanya jammed dan kaku, especially saya yg tak der martial art. Tapi Alhamdulillah saya selamat sewaktu itu, as-sebabnya, dengan izin Allah, adik saya yg baru 6 bulan belajar silat cekak tak graduate, berjaya masuk dulu sebelum mamat tu hayun saya dengan kayu. Memang bagus reflex yg ditunjukkan adik saya tu, sayapun tak sangka. Mmg latihan reflex ni kalau disebatikan ke dalam pergerakan bela diri menghasilkan kombinasi auto manouvre cemerlang dalam bidang pertahanan diri.
Tapi sampai sekarang, saya masih bimbangkan adrenalin dump saya ni sekiranya terpaksa berhadapan sekali lagi ngan orang2 tak berapa betul kepala nih. Saya rasa benar segala motor skill yg dipelajari boleh tergamam dan teknik2 yg terbuku di kepala juga payah nak recall semasa real street fighting, unless semuanya dah sebati dan menjadi sebahagian dari reflex automatik anggota2 badan kita dalam saat genting.

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Post time 1-2-2007 11:38 PM | Show all posts
ASM.
gitulah seperti yang dinasihat dek orang-orang tua, latihkan latah atau reflex ni sebab dalam keadaan sebenar, tak ada dah masa nak pikir-pikir. sapa berani, sapa cepat, sapa "nasib baik" siket, dia lepaslah. Di peringkat perbuatan ni, apa bela diri pun terasnya sama aje. Dua kaki, dua tangan, satu badan, satu kepala. Kalu kita perhatikan betul-betul, semua seni bela diri, sebenarnya menggunakan kaedah yang lebih kurang aje, mungkin dari segi variasi aje beza sikit-sikit. Harus aku rasa ada bela diri yang lebih baik dari yang satu lagi, itu biasalah, setiap yang baik, adalah yang lebih baik darinya. Tapi yang lebih penting, orang yang mengamal. Kalu yang mengamal bawak jalan salah, benda baik pun boleh jadi tak baik

waallahua'lam.

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Post time 2-2-2007 02:30 PM | Show all posts

Reply #52 sikomeng's post

Agreed with sikomeng.Tidak kira apapun matrial arts yang kita belajar,kalau tanpa latihan yang kerap,peratusan untuk mendapat adrenal dump amatlah tinggi.Kalau dirujuk pada artikel tuih,yang di uji semuanya mempunyai black belt,tapi bila situasi sebenar datang,mereka pun tak dapat berbuat apa apa.Ini kan pula orang yang baru belajar.Thats why,kita tak harapkan kepada latihan mingguan sahaja untuk mengasah refleksi.Habis sahaja latihan,kita pun stop.Refleks kita mempunyai memori,kalau kita tidak meletakkan memori kepada refleks,bila datang situasi pergaduhan sebenar,itu yamg jadi cramp.

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Post time 2-2-2007 07:51 PM | Show all posts
Saya wonder apakah teknik2 ringkas dan tak banyak yg telah berjaya dibangunkan oleh pengkaji2 tersebut utk menghadapi apa jua cara serangan.... something effective and easy to use in any condition....ada depa sebut dan ajarkan di mana2?:hmm:
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Post time 2-2-2007 11:31 PM | Show all posts
ASM.
pada fikiran aku, teknik ni bolehlah kita sifatkan macam kaedah, alat, atau "sesuatu yang kita boleh guna secara sistematik" bila perlu berdepan dengan musuh. teknik nih tak ada yang complicated sebenarnya. Tahap sama ada susah atau senang satu-satu teknik tu terpulang pada yang menggunakan. Bak kata orang keserasian lah. Kalau kita rajin, sebelum training tu, masa duduk-duduk tunggu cikgu/sifu/guru datang, cuba kita tengok dengan kawan-kawan yang rapat, ukuran tangan kita, kaki, bidang dada, tapak tangan, dan jarak penglihatan kita dll lah. Semua tu nampak macam sama, tapi itulah antara faktor yang akan menentukan jatuh bangunnya kita masa bertempur. Ada orang genggamannya besar. Ada orang, lengannya panjang. Ada pula yang pendek, tapi ototnya kuat. dll. lah. Jadi kita kena cari teknik mana yang sesuai dengan keadaan fizikal kita dan latihkan sehingga jadi "latahkan" macam yang adwim79 kata. Tak perlu kita ikut kemahiran orang lain kerana itu hak dia, rezeki dia. Dalam senibela diri ni, bukan siapa kuat, siapa gagah jadi ukuran tapi siapa yang menguasai seni...dialah yang duduk didepan.

Kalau nak kata "mana teknik yang paling ringkas dan tak banyak" aku rasa dalam mana-mana seni bela diri pun kaedah ni ada diajarkan. Paling tidak pun asas-asas gerakan yang menggunakan tangan dan kaki, boleh digunakan dalam suasana sebenar. Terpulang pada murid untuk cerap dan cernakan. Cuma yang terbaik aku rasa, bagi mendapatkan satu kaedah yang paling sesuai, seseorang yang menjalani latihan bela diri mesti belajar untuk satu jangka masa yang lama agar dia mampu membuat kesimpulan sendiri tentang apa yang dia belajar.

wallahua'lam.
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Post time 3-2-2007 12:05 AM | Show all posts

Reply #55 sikomeng's post

Apa pendapat tuan ttg silat cekak yg dinyatakan boleh dikuasai oleh penuntut dalam masa 6 bulan sahaja, complete semua kaedah dan buah diajarkan, dan penuntut yg ditauliahkan dimaklumkan dapat bertindak dengan reflex yg cemerlang! Macam mana depa boleh buat demikian tanpa belajar utk satu jangka masa yg lama?
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Post time 3-2-2007 01:07 AM | Show all posts
pasal Adrelin dump ni..pada pendapat saya,dalam aliran seni beladiri di nusantara/silat ni telah ada silibus/latihan tertentu untuk mengatasi maslah ni..cthnya kebanyakan silat di latih menggunakan senjata sebenar dan juga dilatih supaya cepat 'melatah'/refleks..permainan pentas(istilah dlm silat Gayong)/'adik-abang'/'adik beradik (sorry la tak tau istilah mana yang betula) juga sedikit sebanyak dapat membantu...terutama dlm timing,refleks dan stamina...walaupun pergeraka sudah dirancang/berbentuk choreography tapi cuba bayangkan parang/pisau/keris betul yang datang ke arah kita tak semestinya datang seperti yang dirancang..jadi tahap siapsiaga kita juga mesti tinggi seperti kita berlawan betul...     

pendapat saya la kan...
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Post time 3-2-2007 02:26 AM | Show all posts
ASM.
pada tahu aku yang siket ni winof, memang cekak belajau umumnya 6 bulan tu. Komdian pengamal cekak baru boleh dapat bengkung putih, dan bagi yang teruskan boleh lah masuk kelas kemahiran dan insyaAllah boleh lah pakai bengkung merah pulak. Lepas tu bolehlah mengajar kalau aku tak salah. Tu umumnyalah. Kalau nak kata boleh jadi hasil dalam 6 bulan tu, aku rasa harus juga tetapi hanya bagi yang rajin berlatih, banyak bertanya kalau tak tau, dan ikut apa cikgu/jurulatih cakap. Ni lebih kepada kualiti dirilah. Hal yang sama pun apply pada sapa-sapa yang belajar ilmu bela diri yang lain.
6 bulan tu bagi aku lebih kepada nak mengambil pelajaran. Tu sebab ada peringkat kedua yang dipanggil "kelas kemahiran" kalau aku tak salah, nak bagi mahir dan nak bagi sesuatu yang depa tak dapat dalam 6 bulan pertama tu. AKu harap aku tak salah bagi information
Aku setuju dengan Periuk_api1209. Dalam Gayong memang gitulah. Contoh lain dalam Lincah Malaysia, Pusaka Gayong pun gitu juga. Lain-lain silat/ seni pun ada juga yang guna kaedah yang sama macam kalari payat, silambam dan buah-buah advance dalam karate. Ada juga silat melayu contohnya yang gunakan senjata betul juga dalam gelanggang tapi lebih kepada "isyarat" . Depa tak hayun giler macam dalam Gayong ke, Lincah ke. Ada jugak yang murid kena faham dan selami maksud gerakan tapak, macam kalau aku tak salah dalam Gayong Fatani, silat pulut, silat "tapak empat" dll lah. Masing-masing dengan cara dan keistimewaan masing-masinglah yang bagi aku sebagai peminat bela diri yang tak ada apa-apa, seronok dan bangga melihat.
Akhir tujuannya, sama saja, nak menyampaikan Ilmu yang bermanafaat, moga yang belajar jadi manusia berakhlak mulia, berperibadi tinggi, merunduk jiwanya, sayang pada semua yang bernyawa dan kenal diri,...kenal pencipta

wallahua'lam.
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Post time 3-2-2007 07:50 AM | Show all posts
Gayong dan Lincah hayun giler senjata even masa latihan? Interesting. No wonder reflex mereka kelihatan cepat. Just wondering, budak2 sekolah kat Trengganu yg bergaduh 2 hari lepas pakai pedang dan parang tu belajar silat ker? Pasal menjadi kehairanan hamba hanya seorang yg cedera setelah bertempur selama setengah jam! Terer jugak budak2 tu, tapi salah bawak pulak, pasal bateri pun boleh bergaduh.
Tuan komeng, tuan menyatakan tuan peminat seni bela diri yg tak ada apa2, apa maksud tuan, tuan cuma merendah diri ya? Kalau minat tentu tuan ni mendalami ilmu2 bela diri ni seadanya.
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Post time 4-2-2007 02:25 AM | Show all posts
ASM.
ganas betol budak2 tu! tak taulah aku pulak sama ada diorang tu belajau silat ke dak. tapi haruslah kot. cuma penggunaan tu aku rasa tak wajarlah, sebab silat dll. ni bukan untuk "digunakan" tetapi untuk "kegunaan"
aku ni memang tak pandai winof, cerita ceriti gini bole la.  kalu nak cari orang pandai kena refer cloud la gamaknye! he he jangan marah clode, aku tau hang memang hardcore

salam!!!
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