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God is not fair or we dont understand the reason?

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kakaktua This user has been deleted
Post time 10-12-2006 01:14 AM | Show all posts |Read mode
I used to wonder, why someone was created blind, poor, retarded etc...and others created bright, rich and perfect?
Is there any reasons for this, or God is unfair?
I think God is the Perfect One, then why this much of unfairness in creation?
What your religion explanation to this?

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Post time 10-12-2006 01:18 AM | Show all posts
all this can be explained by a fallen world. God didn't make it that way.

Its the same argument why allah created gay dolphins. We discussed this a month ago and Muslims say only allah knows while Christians know that this is a fallen and imperfect world.

Do you have an alternative explanantion mr.kakatua?
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kakaktua This user has been deleted
 Author| Post time 10-12-2006 02:37 AM | Show all posts
I did some research...
If need to accept the fat that God is Fair...then the best explanation I can accept is REINCARNATION..
And there is so many proves of reincarnation..how can I deny this fact!
Is there a better explanation? I am learning.
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Post time 10-12-2006 02:40 AM | Show all posts
God is fair, thats why we humans are paying the price for our fallen nature.
ie. if the govt is bad, the people will suffer whether they know what is the problem.
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kakaktua This user has been deleted
 Author| Post time 10-12-2006 03:26 AM | Show all posts
SORRY, I DONT GET YOUR POINT.
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Post time 10-12-2006 07:39 AM | Show all posts
Originally posted by kakaktua at 10-12-2006 01:14 AM
I used to wonder, why someone was created blind, poor, retarded etc...and others created bright, rich and perfect?
Is there any reasons for this, or God is unfair?
I think God is the Perfect One, ...


Yes..God is fair and Perfect One....
and in general, creatures are created in harmony and balance, and always in pairs. Male/female, rich/poor, etc.

However, as my understanding, the deformation, retarded, imperfections are due to two factors
1) punishment for bad deeds, either direct to him or maybe someone related (as a group)
2) test whether he/she really can endure the harshness in life of being poor, blind etc.

It seems unfair to the blind eyes, but when we examine in detail perspective and as a whole,life is fairer to all. The poor live peacefully, the rich live in chaos, handsome couple dont have kid, blind couple have sweet loving kids, the retard would be freed from responsibility, the leader would be answerable of all responsibilities. This is my opinion and what i observe in life. When we talk in religious specific, all will be judged by God in hereafter, the judgement day..the poor, the blind, the retard, the rich, the handsome, the white, the black will get the perfection, ther rewards - either bad or good!   
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Post time 10-12-2006 05:29 PM | Show all posts
Originally posted by loona at 10-12-2006 07:39 AM

Yes..God is fair and Perfect One....
and in general, creatures are created in harmony and balance, and always in pairs. Male/female, rich/poor, etc.

How is that fair or balanced? Why must good balance with evil? Whatever for? You mean allah create evil?





However, as my understanding, the deformation, retarded, imperfections are due to two factors
1) punishment for bad deeds, either direct to him or maybe someone related (as a group)
2) test whether he/she really can endure the harshness in life of being poor, blind etc.

Islam don't teach such ideas sir.




It seems unfair to the blind eyes, but when we examine in detail perspective and as a whole,life is fairer to all. The poor live peacefully, the rich live in chaos,

I think you have more chaos when you are poor than when you are rich. What nonsence theory are you talking about?




handsome couple dont have kid, blind couple have sweet loving kids,  

lots of handsome people have nice kids and i do not even know of any blind couples, much less they have kids.
Again what nosence are you talking about?





the retard would be freed from responsibility, the leader would be answerable of all responsibilities.   

Give me responsibility any time over retardation and non retards can have no responsibility too.
Agaisn what nosence theory you talking about?






This is my opinion and what i observe in life. When we talk in religious specific, all will be judged by God in hereafter, the judgement day..the poor, the blind, the retard, the rich, the handsome, the white, the black will get the perfection, ther rewards - either bad or good!   

How do you think you will stand up to judgment?
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Post time 10-12-2006 09:09 PM | Show all posts
Originally posted by kakaktua at 10-12-2006 01:14 AM
I used to wonder, why someone was created blind, poor, retarded etc...and others created bright, rich and perfect?
Is there any reasons for this, or God is unfair?
I think God is the Perfect One, ...



thats why we need an afterlife/afterworld...

because this world is not Fair... and full of tests/difficulty...to the people who knows...

the world is temporary that for sure!
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Post time 10-12-2006 10:01 PM | Show all posts
Originally posted by Debmey at 10-12-2006 05:29 PM
How is that fair or balanced? Why must good balance with evil? Whatever for? You mean allah create evil?

God knows everything, and He creates everything and He plans everything, All within His knowledge and His will...either good or evils.

The analogy is like software program. He's the programmer..program everything from "friendly user interface" to "bad command" or "system halted". The angels can be considered His distributer, prophets are His agents, Devil might be His competitor. We humans are only the "end user" or the operator that use the program. We are given the the manual book to follow, sometimes we get the bad command message due to our own mistake, sometimes due to our competitors(devils) virus trying hard to make the program corrupt.However, we can seek help through our manual book, through agents, through distributor and thru the Creator/Programmer Himself. All lines and guidances are available.

Also in my otherwords, earth is only a stage for the good and for the evils to play their parts....the
choice for actors to choose what role they want to play and receive consequences upon that role. Can you imagine If everything is good? or if everything is evil? If that situation exist, we dont need religion isnt it? we dont need police or even we dont need money..but later there will be such place, which is the only good will exist in Heaven, and the only bad will exist in Hell.


Originally posted by Debmey at 10-12-2006 05:29 PM
Islam don't teach such ideas sir.

You must be joking in saying that Islam doesnt teach such ideas since you arent muslim.Or perhaps God did talk to you last nite! huhuhu

For the punishment of people disobeyed God's words can be taken as a lesson from the story of Prophets. Enoch(Idris) with great drought, Noah(Nuh) with a great flood, Eber(Hud) with a great storm, Shelah(Salleh) with massive quake, Lot)(Lut) with the story of Sodom and Gomorrah, Jethro, Moses, Bani Israel,etc.

And for the test of endurance can be found in the story of Job(Ayyub) of his skin illness, Jonah(Yunus) swallowed by great fish, etc.

All those prophets' stories contribute to the teaching of punishment and consequences (directly or indirectly), And also the suffering of harsh test by God, and the rewards (directly or indirectly).


I think you have more chaos when you are poor than when you are rich. What nonsence theory are you talking about?

Is that the love of money is root of all kinds of evil in christinanity?

If you want to argue without giving a deep thought, of course I agree with you. But I'm not talking nonsense my fren, i'm talking in spiritual sense. The happines, the peace, the love cant be bought with money...and of course you have to have money to survive and pay the bills, but what i mean rich is super rich, and i doesnt mean poor is super poor. Chaos can be from many factors, from not having money at all or from having too much money. It is subjective. What I want to emphasis is the possibility.


lots of handsome people have nice kids and i do not even know of any blind couples, much less they have kids.Again what nosence are you talking about?

I'm still talking in a spiritual sense here. Do you just born yesterday?I know a blind couples that have normal kids, and also know a deaf/mute couples that have normal kids. And lots of handsome couples that dont have kids. It is just the possibility again...and it isnt argueable since the possibility do exist

Give me responsibility any time over retardation and non retards can have no responsibility too. Agaisn what nosence theory you talking about?

I'm still talking sense. It is the simple de facto of life. The higher the power you hold, the bigger the responsibilties you have to fulfill, and all your responsibilities are accountable and answerable to the people and to God. The retards isnt answerable and accountable to people, laws and to God. Simple theory what! I'm not making an argument here..just to emphasis my point also.

How do you think you will stand up to judgment?

"There is no god but Allah and Muhammad is His Messanger"
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Post time 11-12-2006 03:45 AM | Show all posts
Originally posted by kakaktua at 10-12-2006 01:14 AM
I used to wonder, why someone was created blind, poor, retarded etc...and others created bright, rich and perfect?
Is there any reasons for this, or God is unfair?
I think God is the Perfect One, ...



my view is pure rationale, it is for the 'movement' of the brain, it makes u to think.

just like u mengores mancis untuk mendapatkan api or u gesel kayu macam oang zaman batu untuk mendapatkan spark..later u got fire and cook sedap2 so too ciptaanNYA

ada siang ada malam ada siang dalam malam macam di norway matahari tengah malam

so pendapat saya all those things will make u think and grow (progress)

kalo tiada oang kene polio..someone takkan jumpa ubat polio kan? dulu maybe manusia tak kenal apa itu AIDS, since late 80s i think dunia mula berdepan masalah HIV and AIDS

so kalo tiada oang miskin, where shall the philantrophist spend his or her money? tenguk apa bill gates buat sekarang.


that is also one way u kenal ur tuhan. kalo misal orang islam faham sifat dan dzat tuhan mereka peyayang, pengasihani, so bila berinteraksi dengan manusia malang, potensi kemanusiaan itu menjadi realiti. bukan mustahil dan susah tuhan nak cipta setiap manusia itu oang beriman dan sihat kuat lawa panjang umur selalu buat keje kebaikan, tak susah pun but kenapa dunia ini kelahiran manusia pelbagai cerita? One has to think.

that is what muhammad buat dalam gua hira`. bertaun taun sebelum wahyu pertama turun. bukan susah tuhan trus antar gibrael dan lantik muhammad. why kene solitude dulu?  it makes him think and through thinking the DESIRE will grow and one day every body will live happily (ideal), tak dapat semua at least we make it the most...isnt that true?

for those yang lawa complete normal perfect mereka akan sedar bahwa mereka cuma hamba, gratitude di lahirkan normal , jangan pandang rendah insan malang, tolong mana mampu.

different stroke move the world. that is why lah i think. and sebab tuhan cipta ciptaa begitu rupa i think Tuhan Maha Adil.

kalau kamu kuat, kamu sepatut tolong yang lemah, that is fair. kalau kamu lemah kamu minta tolong pada yang kuat that is fair.kalo kuat asik berkawan dengan kuat tidak pedulik pada yang lemah , ini ibarat naik satu kapal seme class or golongan dan yang lemah tebok lubang pada kapal kerna mau dapatkan air yang tidak di berikan oleh yang kuat so akhirnya semya karam.

those who have MUST and they have no other choice but MUST help those have not. dalam islam DI WAJIBKAN memberi kalau di minta. it is for ur own good..in long term contohnya untuk kepuasan hati awak bila menolong, tidak rasa bersalah, guilt of conscience kamu. there are too many things we can talk about these matters but itu antara pendapat saya lah. wsalam.
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Post time 11-12-2006 07:53 AM | Show all posts
God knows everything, and He creates everything and He plans everything, All within His knowledge and His will...either good or evils.

So your allah wills evil then. Good for you, you are getting revelation my fren.


The analogy is like software program. He's the programmer..program everything from "friendly user interface" to "bad command" or "system halted". The angels can be considered His distributer, prophets are His agents, Devil might be His competitor. We humans are only the "end user" or the operator that use the program. We are given the the manual book to follow, sometimes we get the bad command message due to our own mistake, sometimes due to our competitors(devils) virus trying hard to make the program corrupt.However, we can seek help through our manual book, through agents, through distributor and thru the Creator/Programmer Himself. All lines and guidances are available.

Bad programmer then. Lots of system errors. Lots of bugs.



Also in my otherwords, earth is only a stage for the good and for the evils to play their parts....the
choice for actors to choose what role they want to play and receive consequences upon that role. Can you imagine If everything is good? or if everything is evil? If that situation exist, we dont need religion isnt it? we dont need police or even we dont need money..but later there will be such place, which is the only good will exist in Heaven, and the only bad will exist in Hell.

Everything was good when God created earth.
Everything is good in heaven, its God抯 will. We don抰 need evil.

You must be joking in saying that Islam doesnt teach such ideas since you arent muslim.Or perhaps God did talk to you last nite! Huhuhu

Then show me verses from the Quran that says what you said.
Who抯 joking here?


QUOTE:
I think you have more chaos when you are poor than when you are rich. What nonsence theory are you talking about?
Is that the love of money is root of all kinds of evil in christinanity?

If you want to argue without giving a deep thought, of course I agree with you. But I'm not talking nonsense my fren, i'm talking in spiritual sense. The happines, the peace, the love cant be bought with money...and of course you have to have money to survive and pay the bills, but what i mean rich is super rich, and i doesnt mean poor is super poor. Chaos can be from many factors, from not having money at all or from having too much money. It is subjective. What I want to emphasis is the possibility.

I don抰 think rich people have more problems. You need to send your head for a check up.



I'm still talking in a spiritual sense here. Do you just born yesterday?I know a blind couples that have normal kids, and also know a deaf/mute couples that have normal kids. And lots of handsome couples that dont have kids. It is just the possibility again...and it isnt argueable since the possibility do exist

Maybe you have met some, I haven抰. How many such couples are there? Where is the balance you are talking about?





I'm still talking sense. It is the simple de facto of life. The higher the power you hold, the bigger the responsibilties you have to fulfill, and all your responsibilities are accountable and answerable to the people and to God. The retards isnt answerable and accountable to people, laws and to God. Simple theory what! I'm not making an argument here..just to emphasis my point also.

Give me responsibility over retardation anytime.
You just don抰 talk sense at all buddy.




"There is no god but Allah and Muhammad is His Messanger".

That抯 not gonna help you one bit on judgment day my fren.
You better escape from islam asap while you still can before its too late.
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Post time 11-12-2006 12:38 PM | Show all posts
Originally posted by Debmey at 11-12-2006 07:53 AM
Then show me verses from the Quran that says what you said.
Who抯 joking here?



"And surely We shall try you with something of fear and hunger, and loss of wealth and lives and crops; but give glad tidings to the steadfast (Sabrin), who say, when a misfortune striketh them: Lo! we are Allah's and Lo! unto Him we are returning. Such are they on whom are blessings from their Lord, and mercy. Such are the rightly guided." (Al-Baqarah 2:155-157)

"So, verily, with the hardship there is relief. Verily, with the hardship, there is relief." (Al-Inshirah  94:5-6)
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Post time 11-12-2006 12:50 PM | Show all posts
2:155-157 did not say there is a so call 'balance' of good and evil. It simply said that those who are steadfast are rewarded after a trial.
You see, you can't even read and understand your quran properly and misquotes it. Please go back and read the entire chapter to get teh real meaning.

Neither did 94:5-6 say anythi9ng about this 'balance' you were talking about.

Are you sure you know islamic doctrine and teachings?
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Post time 11-12-2006 01:01 PM | Show all posts
Originally posted by Debmey at 11-12-2006 12:50 PM
2:155-157 did not say there is a so call 'balance' of good and evil. It simply said that those who are steadfast are rewarded after a trial.
You see, you can't even read and understand your quran  ...

Ello brader...who say that surah is for "balance" ? It is for my statement on punishmen/hardship/test that you are asking for.

Now you are trying show your silliness by diverting the "hardship" issue to "balance" issue. It is two different issues and it is you sillines that try to find the "balance" with that surah

However...if you look deeper, the balance is there, "hardship" and "relief"...but nevermind!
"So, verily, with the hardship there is relief. Verily, with the hardship, there is relief." (Al-Inshirah  94:5-6)


[ Last edited by  loona at 11-12-2006 01:04 PM ]
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Post time 11-12-2006 01:08 PM | Show all posts
I asked you to show me the 'balance' theory in the quran that you professed. go back and read the thread again.
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Post time 11-12-2006 01:34 PM | Show all posts

God created all the pairs.

Originally posted by Debmey at 11-12-2006 01:08 PM
I asked you to show me the 'balance' theory in the quran that you professed. go back and read the thread again.

Duality in creations and characteristics is the symbol of balance and harmony in creation. Plays into everything of our life : Men/Women, Good/Evil, Heaven/Hell, Light/Dark, Soft/Hard, Visible/Invisible, Awake/Asleep, Living/Dead, Quiet/Loud, Anger/Love, etc. It's a Ying & Yang.

In order to understand the harshness, the evils, the torture, one has to understand the duality that created by God. Therefore, the question why God create evils, why imperfections do exist will be answered through the understanding of duality in life.

Scientifically, the theory of duality also lead to quantum physics "parity" finding known as matter and anti-matter theory - electrons are positive and protons are negative.

"Glory be to Him Who created all the pairs: from what the earth produces and from themselves and from things unknown to them." (Ya-Seen 36:36)


[ Last edited by  loona at 11-12-2006 02:06 PM ]
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Post time 11-12-2006 02:24 PM | Show all posts
Originally posted by loona at 11-12-2006 01:34 PM


Duality in creations and characteristics is the symbol of balance and harmony in creation. Plays into everything of our life : Men/Women, Good/Evil, Heaven/Hell, Light/Dark, Soft/Hard, Visible/Invisible, Awake/Asleep, Living/Dead, Quiet/Loud, Anger/Love, etc. It's a Ying & Yang.

First of all, there is no logic in the necessity of dualism in everything and I don't see it taught in the Quran.
Nature itself proves it with asexaul reproduction.







In order to understand the harshness, the evils, the torture, one has to understand the duality that created by God. Therefore, the question why God create evils, why imperfections do exist will be answered through the understanding of duality in life.

First of all, you are admitting that allah created evil.
The truth is, we don't need to know evil to know good and there is no advantage to 'know' evil just for the sake of knowing good.





Scientifically, the theory of duality also lead to quantum physics "parity" finding known as matter and anti-matter theory - electrons are positive and protons are negative.

"Glory be to Him Who created all the pairs: from what the earth produces and from themselves and from things unknown to them." (Ya-Seen 36:36)

Pairing also does not equate to dualism as you would try to link it. You are distorting the Quran and over stretching its meaning my fren.
well then it seems that there is more matter than anti matter for the universe to exist isn't it? why is there lopsidedness here?
So where is the pairing that the quran talks about in sura 36?
Do you realise that not only did i keep showing you that you have no understood the Quran , i have also shown you that the quran cannot be true.

[ Last edited by  Debmey at 11-12-2006 02:26 PM ]
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Post time 11-12-2006 02:46 PM | Show all posts
Originally posted by Debmey at 11-12-2006 02:24 PM

First of all, there is no logic in the necessity of dualism in everything and I don't see it taught in the Quran.
Nature itself proves it with asexaul reproduction.
First of all ...

I present my case in a very clear manner. The "pairs" that leads to balance and harmony is universally accepted. Even i did quote from quran, which is not necessary. But your brain  still cant accept the logic. It is not necessary for me to give example in islamic perspective, but I did! even in christianity also did talk about this. Just google and keep googling.
So, what's you are going to proof? or do we want to talk about the "retardness"?
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Post time 11-12-2006 05:21 PM | Show all posts

stop fake religons

stop polygamy and sexual perversion.
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SilentKiller This user has been deleted
Post time 11-12-2006 05:25 PM | Show all posts
Originally posted by 13Friday at 11-12-2006 05:21 PM
stop polygamy and sexual perversion.


Polygamy ? How abt polygamy in Christianity ? How many wives do King David and Solomon had ?
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