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Ya betul. Kaum lain akan mengambil kesempatan jika kita terlalu merendah diri.
[ Last edited by BotakChinPeng at 17-4-2007 01:19 AM ] |
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Lanchara: De: Malayos
Lakaran kapal-kapal perdagangan Melayu digunakan di Melaka dalam zaman pemerintahan Belanda.
Persamaan dalam rupabentuk dengan Perahu Besar Pinis Gobel Terengganu .
Sources
http://www.puncacipta.com/Pavili ... 0perahu%20besar.htm
[ Last edited by HangPC2 at 18-4-2007 12:39 PM ] |
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I also want to mention there has recently been an 'extreme' form of the history.
You can read about it here:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/internatio...120895,00.html
Here is the summary:
"They were Africa's Vikings. Tough, daring voyagers who sailedthousands of miles to pluck riches from unmapped lands known today asZimbabwe, Mozambique, South Africa and Nigeria.
Centuries before Europeans, mariners from Indonesia raided and tradedacross the continent, filling their vessels with gold and silver forthe princes of Java and Sumatra.
In return they gave Africa the secrets of iron and bronze, exoticplants such as banana and yams, and a new culture enriched with music,architecture and spirituality."
FYI, most Indonesian is not Malay. Only in Malaysia, Malaysian thinkthat Indonesian is Malay. In Indonesia, suku-suku is highly identified. Most areJavanese and Sundanese. Please note that we are different from Malay. Suku Malay only alittle portion in indonesia (only 5% of our population) .
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'RI ships in 10th century superior to those of Europe'
Abdul Khalik, The Jakarta Post, Jakarta
Five hundred years before groups of ocean conquistadors fromPortugal began their journey to look for new territories, ships fromthe islands now known as Indonesia were traveling around Asian waterswith very advanced technology.
The preliminary scientific reconstruction of a shipwreck recovered fromthe Java Sea found that the ship had better technology than those fromEurope, China or Japan.
The ship, believed to have sunk between 930 AD and 990 AD in a storm, was also bigger and better constructed.
"Our preliminary analysis concludes that the ship was 25 to 35 meterslong and 12 meters wide. At that period, China still had no ships thatcould sail the oceans, while European ships were much smaller. Imagine,the ship Columbus used to sail to America and 15th century Europeanships were all less than 20 meters," German ship expert Horts H.Liebner told The Jakarta Post recently.
Liebner, one of probably only three or four world-class experts intraditional and sunken ships, said that looking at the technology andconstruction, the recovered ship was definitely an Indonesian shippossibly from Sumatra, Kalimantan or Sulawesi.
He said the discovery of wood nails as binders of planks for the ship,as well as of boxes for ivory binders (tambugu) used to strengthen theship suggested that it used technology from West Austronesia, referringto an area of what is now the Indonesian archipelago.
"Indian and Arabic ships used ropes to connect planks while the Chineseused iron nails. So, it can't be an Indian, Arabic or Chinese ship,"Liebner said.
Other proof that supports the scientific claim that the ship belongedto the West Austronesian ship making tradition is the use oflongitudinal and traverse strengthening, which experts have longbelieved to be characteristic of Indonesian ships.
The application of standardized hole size -- 27 millimeters each -- forthe wood nails shows a method of ship making that employed the mostadvanced technology of its time.
Hence, Liebner said, the discovery was very important because it couldconfirm many assumptions by experts, who have speculated for many yearsthat Indonesians, especially Makassar and Bugis traders and fishermen,reached many areas of the world before Europeans arrived there.
"I believed such ships with this size and technology were commonplacein the archipelago. It proves that Indonesian ancestors were far infront of others in maritime affairs at that time," he said.
He said at that time the Europeans, Chinese and Japanese did notpossess the technology to make ships capable of sailing away from theshore, let alone crossing the ocean, such as the Indian Ocean or thePacific Ocean.
Liebner said the technology of the ship suggested that many tradersfrom what people now know as Indonesia crossed both oceans in order toreach Africa, Arabia and islands in the Pacific.
"We can make all of the conclusions from analysis of several samplestaken from the shipwreck. Who knows how many other things can berevealed if we continue our examination of the samples. Unfortunately,the police confiscated them all," he said.
Police confiscated in January over 490,000 pieces of ancient ceramics,gold coins and glassware salvaged from the shipwreck, as well assamples used for laboratory analysis. Police alleged that the materialswere salvaged illegally.
Liebner said with all of the samples stored in containers and keptunder the scorching sun for months, further analysis would be difficult. |
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Why they not continue to investigate...? Or maybe Indonesian want to investigate gold coin only without knowing the value of their past history.  |
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Originally posted by jf_pratama at 22-4-2007 07:44 PM
... FYI, most Indonesian is not Malay. Only in Malaysia, Malaysian thinkthat Indonesian is Malay. In Indonesia, suku-suku is highly identified. Most areJavanese and Sundanese. Please note that we are different from Malay. Suku Malay only alittle portion in indonesia (only 5% of our population) .
and Srivijaya was made up of Malays on both sides of the straits; not just eastern Sumatra. |
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jf_pratama,
Memang bagi Indonesia,Melayu Indonesia hanya di Sumatera,tetapi bagi Malaysia Melayu meliputi seluruh suku2 rumpun Melayu yg berbahasa Melayu.Di Malaysia org2 Jawa,Banjar,Bugis,Bawean dsb juga dikategorikan sebagai Melayu.Malah garisan pemisah suku2 rumpun Melayu di Malaysia adalah sangat kabur kerana suku2 spt yg dinyatakan tadi juga mengaku mereka Melayu walaupun masih mengekalkan sedikit sebanyak ciri2 kesukuan mereka.
Seluruh Alam Melayu atau nusantara mengutamakan Bahasa Melayu sebagai lingua franca.Buktinya bahasa rasmi Indonesia iaitu Bahasa Indonesia juga adalah Bahasa Melayu bukan Bahasa Jawa atau Sunda.
Bangsa Indonesia sebenarnya hanyalah istilah yg diwujudkan sebagai strategi politik untuk penyatuan negara Indonesia.Bangsa Melayu melangkaui sempadan politik dan geografi kerana Melayu berada di seluruh dunia dengan jumlah 300juta jiwa.
Sekiranya setiap negara2 Melayu bersikap terlalu nasionalis atau kenegaraan maka bangsa Melayu akan menjadi lemah kerana berpecah2.Sekiranya di Indonesia dipanggil bangsa Indonesia di Malaysia mahu dipanggil bangsa apa?Kemudian di Singapura,Brunei,Thailand,Filipina,Australia,Sri Langka,Afrika?Bagaimana pula orang2 Melayu/Jawa/Bugis/Sunda/Bawean dl yg bermastautin di negara2 lain seperti negara2 Arab,Eropah,Amerika dll mahu dipanggil apa?
Orang Cina juga mempunyai banyak negara dan suku dengan dialek yg berbeda tapi walau dimana mereka berada,walau dari negara mana mereka berasal mereka dipanggil dan mengaku diri mereka Cina 
[ Last edited by rempo at 24-4-2007 10:41 AM ] |
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Reply #86 BotakChinPeng's post
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Etnik Melayu itu amat besar merangkumi dari Madagascar hingga ke kepulauan pasifik....bangsa Melayu tak terhad di Malaysia saja...hanya penjajah yang suka buat teori tuh sebab mereka nak divide and conquoer! |
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saya sangat bersetuju dengan rempo |
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With the arrival of revolutionary warship designs from Portugal, large Malay ships began to disappear from the 16th century onwards due to their inability to accommodate gun decks. Maybe the design fundamentals itself made the Malay ship抯 center of gravity too high and placing guns on board would cause the top heavy ship to topple easily. My two cents.
From this picture of a 180 ton English galleon, we can see how the delicate contour of the hull make galleons very difficult to imitate. In 17th century Asia only the Japanese and certain SE Asian sultanates including Johor were clever enough to build galleons. Other Asian countries like India and China had big ships too but they were all of inferior indigenous design unsuitable for battle against a European armed merchantman.
Through his book 揂 History of Johor |
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Reply #87 rempo's post
sangat bersetuju...........
aku byk belajar dgn diskusi korang sumer ni..nak tumpang mencelah ilmu tiada..
terima kasih bebanyak....
aku harap lepas ni ..orang melayu akan berbangga jadi orang melayu..
harap juga..pemimpin2 melayu yang ada skrg ni..kurangkanla..
stetmen.Melayu lemah..malas ketinggalan dsbgnya..yg negatip2 tu..
lagila pilihanraya dah nak dekat ni..mesti byk yg negatip kuar..
aku tgk bangsa lain tak pernah merendah2kan bangsa mereka sendiri...
secara psikologinya aku rasa benda ni ada efeknya...
mungkin bila kita tau sejarah sebenar bangsa kita..
kita akan bangkit semula spt yg sepatut2nya... |
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Reply #91 milay's post
actually malays(nusantara)memang datang dari satu tamaddun yg maju
dan teori "ATLANTIS IS INDONESIA"memang banyak faktanya
menepati betapa tamadun ini hingga era moden dimana pelaut eropah
datang ke dunia "sebelah sini"untuk spices dan berubah jadi conqueror
bila didapati area disini banyak "business"factor......
saya mesti betulkan statement dimana "kita akan bangkit semula,kerana dulu kita hebat"tak salah berstatement positif begitu .....
tapi kita kena terima kenyataan yg tamadun agung akan lupus dan tiada satu pun kekal hingga kini....(tinggal batu monumen saja)
ini kerana kita hidup dlm era dan zaman tamadun yg "lain"dan definitely
bukan "melayu dan islam" coz zaman gemilangnya telah pun lupus....
KINGDOM OF THE LOST-"FOREVER"
Roman Empire
Spanish conquistador
Byzantium Empire
Khans of the Monggols
Ottoman empire
Vikings warlords
Malacca Empire..........and many more....
none of this glorious empire exist ataupun standing megah
hari ini menjadi kuasa baru...sebaliknya hidup dlm low profile,close door dan berekonomi sederhana sahaja....hidup menjadi sumber sejarah dan history tourism saje...... |
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nak mencelah gak dalam thread nie.... my sister punyer lecture pernah bercerite, dan diceritekan kembali kat saya.... yang tamadun melayu dahulu sememangnye dikagumi oleh negara china dan dunia arab... kisah tamadun melayu nie adalah sebelumnye zaman pemerintahan parameswara... salah satunye... kapal tamadun melayu... dikatakan kapal tamadun melayu dahulu laju... kerana kebijaksanaan tamadun melayu dahulu mencipta takal... bagi org cina dan arab.. mereka menggunakan takal berbentuk segitiga berbanding takal yang digunakan tamadun melayu dahulu berbentuk bulat... da banyak benda yg sister citakan kat saya..tp ingat2 lupa lah plak.... |
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rasa kagum kan
org melayu zaman dulu gagah dan bijak
x macam skang....merosakkan bangsa sendri ada laa |
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Klompok Melayu atau Austronesian's Malays dari dulu adalah pakar maritin. Belayar jauh dari gugusan Nusantara hingga berhijrah ke Malagasi dan Lautan Selatan. Please read Hawaii by James Michener. |
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Originally posted by thamrong at 3-2-2008 04:26 PM 
Klompok Melayu atau Austronesian's Malays dari dulu adalah pakar maritin. Belayar jauh dari gugusan Nusantara hingga berhijrah ke Malagasi dan Lautan Selatan. Please read Hawaii by James Michener.
Ya betul tu.Ibu negara Malagasy atau disebut Madagascar sekarang ini iaitu Antannarivo adalah berasal dari perkataan Tanah Seribu.Saya pernah melihat satu dokumentari tentang Madagascar yang menunjukkan alat pertanian tradisional disana sama dengan yang digunakan di Negara kita. |
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Austrnonesian Malay seolah-olah mempunyai deria keenam tentang kelautan yang tiada pada bangsa lain.Sayangnya ia semakin menghilang dari diri orang Melayu.Melayu adalah bangsa penglopor bagi ilmu pelayaran menentang angin.Jika anak anda menunjukkan minat tentang ombak atau sebarang perkara tentang laut beri dia galakan dan jangan terlalu menghalangi minatnya.Ini kerana wujud darah nenek moyangnya berkenaan tentang laut.Selalunya orang jenis ini tak akan mengalami mabuk laut walaupun dia tidak biasa dengan laut.Golongan ini selalunya gemar melihat ombak dan suka mendengar derunya.Laut baginya dapat menenangkan fikiran.Hanyir laut dirasakannya harum.Baginya laut bagaikan seorang kawan. |
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jangan cakap pasal kapal melayu...sajalah.
kemana pergi nya perahu perang bangsa melayu?
Perahu Beda ( dalam kamus DBP) Perahu beda bermaksud perahu perang bangsa melayu...
sejarah masih mengingati perahu ini..contoh pelumba perahu panjang beda..di reggetta Sarawak..
Perahu beda di ukur dgn teliti sekali ..supaya laju bila di kayoh.
Perahu beda hanya terdapat di alam melayu...........bentuk dan ukur berbeza dgn Perahu bangsa lain..
Kalau di teliti pembuatannya orang melayu sejak dulu lagi dah ada ilimu fizik membuat perahu..mcm mana perahu itu boleh laju dan timbul bila di kayoh walaupun muatan nya lebih.. |
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mwahahaha...mgkin brader joni nk nasihat jer....
sbb die tgok skang manyak melayu yg dok kampung yg x maju2...x pk masadeeepan
pastu da bc mende ni...terpk bangsa melayu ni power...pastu trus dok diam malas wt pepe dah...sbb ingt melayu ni bagus....
tp braderjoni...jgn dok hingat sume org melayu teruk
mesti ko ni pn cm hampeh kn....
kawan aku ramai je melayu yg bgus2...
ak kawan ngan sume dak mesia...iban ke cina ke hape ker...
kalo dak baik...sume ok....
manusia mmg ade yg baik...ade yg x baik...ade yg 2 2....
jgn dok pk melayu ni hampeh je kalo sendiri yg hampeh....
pls lah... |
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Author
Post time 17-4-2007 05:22 PM
