What Price Honour?

hamizao

I have been reading this book about how much family honour is being placed on the shoulders of the women of their community. As such I am tempted to find out what people understand about "honour" and how they go about treating it or defending it.

[ Last edited by  hamizao at 9-1-2008 12:46 AM ]

batman_2007

priceless

nik2121

Nak kira? Senang je.

Katakan gaji anda sebulan ialah RM1500.
Anda bekerja selama 8 jam sehari, selama 25 hari.
Jadi, RM1500 itu dibahagikan dengan 25 YANG sebelum itu didarabkan dengan 8.

Jumlah harga diri anda = rm 7.50 SEJAM

hamizao

You mean .....like it is everything? Would you then sacrifice ANYTHING and EVERYTHING for the sake of it?

hamizao

Oh, a very interesting view...honour equivalent to self worth in monetary sense?

dutchy

In my view hami dear...the honour for me is more on how i try my best to upkeep my family's standing in the eyes of the community

In trying to achieve this, how we go about presenting ourselves is what matter most, honour in this day and time is what the chinese says to be water face

try not to do anything that can brings shame and thereby draging our family names thru the mud

while it's never easy to satisfy people in the community to accept us for what we are...there is no harm in trying to do good in whatever that we do, and to take into account that whatever we do there is a chain of reaction, how the chain unfolds depends largely on what we do

batman_2007

sumtime u never know then ginving back is the best thing u do in life..u feel gud about it n never regret n surely very proud of it..

hamizao

The book I read was "In The Name Of Honour" depicting the story of Mukhtar Mai from a very remote village in Benazir Butto's country. Though the scene was around tribal values which put a lot of restrictions on the females, the bastion of family honour, yet when the pepetrator is a male, revenge is taken out on the female relative of the male. An eye for an eye............so the saying goes. So if one's honour is contravene, you do the same to towards the other by taking away their's and it goes on and on.

My hubby thinks this is only western journalism trying to mock or spread lies. But then I have also read another book on Poolen Devi The Bandit Queen from Nehru's country............a similar trait exist more because of the caste system which transands all religious groups.

The discussion is not so much on the truth in those books but rather on our own perceptions of this word "honour".

My own view on "honour" is like what dutchy said...waterface. But somehow, I cannot agree if one person  is beholden to the honour of everyone else in the family. Sure we share the pride when a member of the family do well and hopefully when in sadness too. Sure parents are responsible for nurturing their children, but in the final analysis a person ought to be responsible for his/her own actions and therefore take account of it. Therefore, if he/she make the wrong choice, why should others are taken down as well? Are we still living by the so called tribal mentality or values? Say, If my parents had a fall out with someone, should I carry on the battle and should my children  and their children too? My opinion is we fight our OWN battles not other's.

[ Last edited by  hamizao at 12-1-2008 12:14 PM ]

redsinner

i concur your views on 'honor', especially family/tribal honor.

these honor constituted by the society they live in and the individuals are expected to follow the way they are told to live.

say, in our culture the women are expected to look after the husband and kids, if they dont do that they defy their ancestors' believe thus brings down the honor of the family.

or

say, the working sculptor/carpenter dad is famous for his sculptures and handiworks, his offsprings especially the sons are expected to take over the dad's ability. if the kids simply decline or not comparable to his father's work quality he has simply 'dishonored' the family.

that is my own analogy for honor. anymore ideas?

Agul

Tribal honours, family honours, office honours...



What about defiance? Honourable defiances? Breaking free, blasting through...

Is there such a thing?

blastoff

I don't let my society decide on how I should behave or act  , I don't like to follow any tradition or culture and I don't care much about fashion or trend . I like to live my life the way I see fit regardless of what other people think of me .

breaking free , blasting through ..... love the sound of it

[ Last edited by  blastoff at 15-1-2008 09:21 AM ]

Agul

Let society dictate whatever.

It's our life anyway.

hamizao

I only know that honour is personal integrity.......allegiance to moral principles. Some of these principles are already enshrined in the legal codes of the country but where society is far in the hinterland or untouched by development and progress  it may still adhere to traditions. While some traditions may have good reasons for them being there some are just  an expression of power. Like, lock up ypur women and do not teach them too much least you cannot keep them under control...Girls are to be seen but not heard, In some society women are to look ugly so as not to attract men.............so they must cover up from head to toe in black.
When her hubby dies she must throw herself into the pyre. Another one - the widow must leave camp and freeze herself in the winter night. They would say that that is their way................

I do not believe that traditions cannot change. It should go in hand with acceptance of change in the way people think and do things. Some people are afraid of change 'cause they know not what is at the other end. So I believe it all boils down to knowledge and need. The concept of liberty and equality took a while and by god how it erupted. It wa perhaps driven by need of the poor and suppressed.Yes, it took defiance to blast through. If it is in defence of what you believe is a God given right, then yes I think it is an honourable defiance.

[ Last edited by  hamizao at 20-1-2008 01:02 PM ]

dutchy

Originally posted by Agul at 15-1-2008 11:47 PM
Let society dictate whatever.

It's our life anyway.

how can u say that Agul? when we're living and breathing in a society?

are you implying that to stay true to ourselves, we have to separate ourselves  from the massa? and break free from age old tradition and what makes us what we are today?

do elaborate further

Agul

Originally posted by dutchy at 20-1-2008 11:47 AM
how can u say that Agul? when we're living and breathing in a society?

are you implying that to stay true to ourselves, we have to separate ourselves  from the massa? and break free from age old tradition and what makes us what we are today?

do elaborate further

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Agul

Wheee...

too elaborate...

thamrong

What about Roman honour?

'A good man' was hence a man deemed worthy by others, a man deemedhonourable. But so too, in the Roman mind set honourable was only whatwas actually honoured. Glory or honour were also measured only in therecognition it drew from others.'

[ Last edited by  thamrong at 22-1-2008 01:14 AM ]

blastoff

Originally posted by Agul at 20-1-2008 12:30 PM


When I say that we break free from social sonditioning, it doesn't mean that we become a recluse, hermit or social rebel, totally uncaring.
Nor does it mean to be be a bitter member of soci ...

Agreed 100%

hamizao

Hmmm......would  what others say be a criterion. This seems to be no stranger in our society. If it's negative then it would be lack of honour.....even shame perhaps?

wisteria

honour is about value but that value can't really be valued