Teori Pemanasan Corona Matahari berdasarkan tafsiran Alquran dan Sains

saden

Originally posted by mbhcsf at 12-3-2009 22:57

i jadi physicist ....hmm....hehe i suka chemistry lah  ( inorganic) senang faham physical .. ...

Madah orang2 bijak pandai; "If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate"

mbhcsf

well.... not in the state of equilibrium lah....ada reversible direction lah....... so ones position is interchangeable.....

blastoff

Originally posted by aku_EnSeM at 13-3-2009 10:28


Ok, 'atmosfera Bumi is thick enough' tu explanation dlm buku sains lower form. No mechanisms are introduced.

The exact mechanism is that the Earth atmosphere contains a huge variety of mol ...

Itu apa yang ditulis oleh website NASA , bukan apa yang aku sendiri cakap .

Bawah ni semua yang aku tulis adalah apa yang aku cakap sendiri dan apa yang aku sendiri percaya ok.


Apabila kau memperkatakan tentang energy, maka di situlah letaknya perbezaan yang crucial di antara apa yang hampa percaya dengan apa yang aku percaya. Since aku percaya EM waves , light dan heat adalah tiga elemen berbeza yang datang seiring dari matahari ,  pada light dan heat tu lah terdapatnya energy , bukannya pada EM waves . Apabila sesuatu objek disinari cahaya matahari maka yang terpantul adalah EM waves dan bukannya light dan heat !

Apabila EM waves terpantul pada sesatu objek ketika objek tu disinari cahaya matahari , maka kita boleh lihatlah rupabentuk objek tu , jadi di sini bukan objek tu yang emit EM waves , tapi EM waves cuma terpantul pada objek tu aje . Aku tahu apa yang hampa percaya adalah objek apa pun boleh emit EM waves kan , tapi apa yang aku percaya adalah hanya matahari yang boleh emit EM waves , objek yang selain dari matahari cuma boleh memantulkan EM waves yang datangnya dari matahari apabila objek tu disinari cahaya matahari .  

EM waves X-Rays yang terpantul pada certain objek yang letaknya di space hanya boleh di lihat oleh mata kita ketika bumi menghadap matahari saja, tapi di sebabkan ketika tu hari siang , maka pantulan EM waves pada atmosphere bumi menganggu la kan , jadi itulah sebab kita tak boleh lihat X-Rays nebula, matahari dan comet dari posisi kita di bumi ni  .

Disebabkan wujudnya molecules pada atmosphere bumi yang apabila di sinari cahaya matahari maka EM waves akan terpantul pada molecules tu , maka mata kita akan hanya dapat melihat pantulan yang berlaku di atmosphere bumi yang paling berhampiran dengan kita aje la, sebab segala pantulan EM waves yang jauh dari atmosphere bumi dah terhalang dari pandangan mata kita oleh pantulan EM waves pada atmosphere bumi yang dekat dengan kita ni .

Sebab tu pada siang hari kita tak boleh tengok pantulan EM waves pada bintang-bintang di langit , kerana kewujudan pantulan EM waves pada atmosphere bumi yang menghalang kita dari melihatnya. Tapi pada malam hari , apabila EM waves dah tak terpantul pada atmoshere bumi pada ketika tu , jadi dengan senang mata kita dapat melihat pantulan EM waves pada bintang-bintang dilangit .   

EM waves datangnya dari matahari bersama cahaya dan haba , dan apabila sesuatu objek berzarah di space di sinari cahaya matahari dan berhaba tinggi pada temperature 1 juta K , maka EM waves X-Rays akan terpantul pada objek berzarah tu , tapi kita kat bumi ni tak boleh lihat X-Rays pada objek berzarah tu bukan kerana objek berzarah tu tiada X-Rays , tapi kerana posisi kita kat bumi tu la yang menyebabkan kita tak boleh melihatnya.

Kenapa kita tak boleh melihatnya ? Kerana ketika hari siang apabila bahagian bumi yang mengalami hari siang tu menghadap matahari , maka pantulan EM waves pada atmosphere bumi mengganggu pandangan kita ketika tu , pada malam hari pulak maka bahagian bumi yang gelap berada di posisi yang totally membelakang matahari langsung pulak dah , jadi kedudukan bumi ni sendiri menjadi penghalang pada ketika tu.  

Pantulan EM waves X-Rays dari objek di space ni pendek ajekan , jadi untuk membolehkan kita di bumi ni melihat pantulan EM waves X-Rays pada certain objek di space tu , maka angle kedudukan kita dengan matahari adalah amat penting sekali . Kita perlu berada di kedudukan yang tepat dan tidak ada halangan dari pantulan EM waves dari atmosphere bumi ketika tu , jadi memang hanya di satellite ajelah dengan menggunakan X-Ray telescope yang akan membolehkan kita melihat dengan jelas X-Rays pada nebula, comet dan matahari   .   

Ketika corona berlaku , kawasan bumi yang gelap tu bukan membelakangkan matahari tapi menghadap matahari kan , walaupun matahari tertutup ketika tu , tapi corona menghadap kawasan bumi yang gelap tu , dan apabila atmosphere bumi di kawasan yang gelap gelemat ketika tu dah tiada pantulan EM waves padanya , maka dah tak wujud halangan apa lah untuk kita melihat ruang corona yang terpantul EM waves X-Rays padanya tu , sebab tu dengan mata kasar dari bumi ni pun kita boleh lihat corona walaupun ia cuma mempamerkan X-Rays aje padanya , itu adalah kerana angle kedudukan kita kat bumi ni yang mesti berada di posisi yang tepat dengan lokasi matahari ketika corona terbentuk .

Dan kenapa di satellite saintis tak dapat detect corona pada hari - hari biasa menggunakan X-Rays telescope ? Kerana tiada pantulan EM waves pada ruang corona tu di sebabkan ruang tu tak berzarah sebenarnya , ia ruang vakum jadi tiada zarah yang nak memantul pada ruang corona tu pada hari - hari biasa . Tapi pada ketika berlakunya total eclipse maka cahaya matahari yang menyinari bulan telah menyebabkan EM waves terpantul dari permukaan bulan ke ruang vakum tersebut , dan sape-sape yang berada di kedudukan yang tepat dengan angle pantulan tu terjadi , maka akan boleh lihatlah pantulan EM waves X-Rays di ruang vakum tu .

[ Last edited by  blastoff at 13-3-2009 16:24 ]

blastoff

Originally posted by aku_EnSeM at 13-3-2009 10:28

The exact mechanism is that the Earth atmosphere contains a huge variety of molecules, some of which are radicals, and others with polar bonds, which are able to absorb the energy of X-Ray particle to form another variety of products. Hence no X-Ray could pass through as X-Ray is essentially gone. Explanation ni dpt dr Uni je.

Apa yang kau sebut kat atas ni boleh di perolehi di banyak website , aku paste info yang sama dari salah satu website tu kat bawah ni


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The sun is continually releasing an enormous amount of radiant energy into the solar system. The Earth receives a tiny fraction of this energy; yet, an average of 1367 watts (W) reaches each square meter (m2) of the outer edge of the Earth's atmosphere. The atmosphere absorbs and reflects some of this radiation, including most X-rays and ultraviolet rays. Still, the amount of the sun's energy that reaches the surface of the Earth every hour is greater than the total amount of energy that the world's human population uses in a year.
http://www1.eere.energy.gov/solar/pv_cell_light.html

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Kau dan mbhcsf baru keluar dari gua mana   , aku pun heran , hampa cakap macam lah apa saja yang hampa sebut tu hanya boleh di dapati kat univ semata-mata , sedangkan kalau seseorang tu rajin maka google sikit aje dah boleh jumpa bertimbun info macam apa yang hampa gahkan tu, setakat bab-bab basic tu berlambak dalam web , sebab tu aku malas nak tanya soalan "how" sebab senang aje nak dapat jawab soalan gitu di zaman teknologi digital ni , lainlah kalau zaman 60-an, maka logik la dok mai kat forum ni sambil riuhkan bab-bab basic kerana waktu zaman tu semua info macam tu hanya boleh di perolehi di univ aje la kan , tapi la ni kalau kau kata apa yang kau cakap tu hanya boleh diperolehi kat uni maka boleh gelak la dibuatnya , itu menggambarkan kau dan mbhcsf malas nak google atau tak reti nak guna google kot  .

[ Last edited by  blastoff at 13-3-2009 17:01 ]

aku_EnSeM

Originally posted by blastoff at 13-3-2009 04:03 PM


Itu apa yang ditulis oleh website NASA , bukan apa yang aku sendiri cakap .

Bawah ni semua yang aku tulis adalah apa yang aku cakap sendiri dan apa yang aku sendiri percaya ok.


A ...

Ini bukn pasal percaya, ini psl physics fact. Ape yg blasty ckp goes back to centuries ago, dear. This is the kind of argument that they had.

When Maxwell derived his equations of electromagnetism, he discovered that there exist electric + magnetic disturbence that gives birth to the EM wave. The speed of EM wave, he calculated, appears to be exactly the speed of light. In addition, the characteristics of light that Maxwell studied matches to that of EM wave;
1. The speed of light and EM wave are equal.
2. Light and EM wave exists in vacuum.
3. Light shows the characteristics of wave (Doppler effects, difraction, bla bla bla)

Then, when Planck introduced his equation, no one believes him. But now, it has been proved to great accuracy. Planck says quantised energy is related to frequency via E=hv. It allows us to calculate the energy contained in single photon. This now relates photon with energy. Since energy could be converted to any other energy, why can't we say that photon brings heat?

Then, comes the age of Einstein. He discovered the relativity of mass that shows that if photon does exist, it must travel at the speed of light, otherwise, photon ceases to exist. So this relates EM wave with photons, then EM wave brings energy, and so forth.

At this point, I request an article from blasty that states EM wave, light, and heat are different.

Sebagai penutup, aku nk state Wein's Law of blackbody radiation. 1 jasad dengan suhu T membebaskan EM wave dengan wavelength berkadar songsang dengan T. This directly shows that any object with T can emit EM wave, as explained by the law. The only reason that the sun can be seen is that its temp is high enough for the wavelength to fall in the region at which our eyes can detect. Moon too emits EM wave on its own, but the wavelength is so long that almost nothing could detect it. Your assumption that only sun can emit EM wave violates Wein's Law.


Opened for critics.....

aku_EnSeM

Originally posted by blastoff at 13-3-2009 04:53 PM


Apa yang kau sebut kat atas ni boleh di perolehi di banyak website , aku paste info yang sama dari salah satu website tu kat bawah ni


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Hey blasty, u dh bace something yg violates your physics, but u point us with nonsense. Aku concentrate psl your mechanism that atmosphere cannot absorb X-Ray. Aku tau are at some degree, ade yg kene pantul, tp itu bukan tiang discussion kite. Klu kene amik kire sume faktor, termasuk sehelai daun yg buat fotosintesis dr cahaya matahari, sampai bile pun discussion ni x habis.

Concentrate, blasty. We don't insult others in a civilised discussion. Psl tu aku suke lepak kt board ni, discussion die profesional (I hope)

[ Last edited by  aku_EnSeM at 13-3-2009 17:09 ]

blastoff

Originally posted by aku_EnSeM at 12-3-2009 14:19


Bukn cmtu, but hampir sume penceramah yg aku jumpe ckp Al-Quran hanya boleh ditafsir dgn betul klu kite tafsir Quran berdasarkan pemikiran yg dalam, Allah ckp sendiri bende ni dlm Quran. So,  ...

Disturbing point tentang kau ni adalah kau suka tuduh orang buat sesuatu yang mereka tak buat , kau kata aku cakap something, yang jelasnya aku tak cakap pun benda yang kau kata tu , dan atas ni kau tuduh aku buat something yang aku tak buat pun , article apanya, apa yang aku tulis di post 183 adalah apa yang aku sendiri percaya, jadi apabila kau cakap kau dengar penceramah ni kata lagu ni , dan ulamak nu kata lagu tu, maka aku tak boleh nak comment atas dasar hearsay dari kau yang dah terbukti boleh create cerita tak betul nih , so ulamak mana yang kau nak kata cakap kat kau apa pun maka aku tak nak comment lebih lanjut ok , bahaya.   Sapa tahu apa sebenarnya ulamak atau penceramah tu cakap pada kau kan , kang lain yang depa cakap tapi lain yang kau fahamkan , lalu kau kata depa cakap something yang depa sebenarnya tak cakap pun lagu tu , huisss bahaya tuuu .

[ Last edited by  blastoff at 13-3-2009 17:16 ]

aku_EnSeM

Originally posted by blastoff at 13-3-2009 05:13 PM


Disturbing point tentang kau ni adalah kau suka tuduh orang buat sesuatu yang mereka tak buat , kau kata aku cakap something, yang jelasnya aku tak cakap pun benda yang kau kata tu , dan a ...

Aku xtuduh. Ko kte X-Ray xleh past atmosphere. Mechanism die, X-Ray dipantul dan diserap oleh nebula. Tu je.

Ko masih xjawab soalan X-Ray terpantul dlm nebula. I think, we should start at Planck's Equation, if you haven't learned that. You need to learn variety fields of physics before proposing a mechanism, blasty.

Lps tu bru kite boleh tgk ape jd kt nebula. N psl Planck's Equation gak yg membuatkan hujah blasty agak rapuh psl X-Ray itu berbeza mengikut tempat.

mbhcsf

sapa ni yg cakap


Em wave is not equals to  light is not equals energy ?


hahhhhhhhhhhhhhh?



haiyaaa


macam ni aa wa balik sg petani datang balik tak habis wooo....


god...... u boys

aku_EnSeM

Xpe, kite sebarkan ilmu. Start dgn Maxwell's Equations pun leh gak. There is a long way to go.

All I need is blasty's willing to accept the current fact that EM wave, light, and heat are connected. Otherwise, bgs aku buat revision sendiri.

Nk quote dulu. Aku xpasti ini firman Allah atau sabda Rasulullah, "Iman tanpa ilmu x gune, ilmu tanpa iman pun xgune". Blasty, percaya tanpa mengetahui fakta sebenar tu x gune. U percaye yg EM Wave, light, n heat 3 elemen berbeza, tp ahli fizik 1 dunia agree yg diorg are interchangeable berdasarkan bukti2 n eksperimen2 selame berkurun lamenye.. It's up to you to accept it or not.

[ Last edited by  aku_EnSeM at 13-3-2009 17:44 ]

mbhcsf

well, macam nilah Blasty - the thing is the three fundamentals of concepts about light+ EMwave+ energy tu you dah tak sama lagi dah dgn we all beljaq dan faham logiknya, jadi point point yg you bawak pun akan buat we all yg percaya light = EM wave+ energy akan berfikir cara kita org sebab IANYA LOGIC...


jadi apa benda yg you bawakan pun kita org akan analyse and will ask you more question on basics you know, and that's why people bring you to understand the equation, concepts, the physical quantities and their interactions.

so u see...sebab fundamentally there is amess somewhere so...jadi macam nilah

tapi..we ask more questionlah kalau macam ni ...and you will answer according to what you se/perceive and fahamlah kan?

ok ....

saden

Originally posted by aku_EnSeM at 13-3-2009 17:39


U percaye yg EM Wave, light, n heat 3 elemen berbeza, tp ahli fizik 1dunia agree yg diorg are interchangeable berdasarkan bukti2 neksperimen2 selame berkurun lamenye

yg ahli fizik 1 dunia tu merupakan para saintis barat! yg blasty pulak ambil dari translation Quran! Mana lagi betul? saintis barat ke Quran? ;) ;)

aku_EnSeM

Originally posted by saden at 13-3-2009 05:52 PM

yg ahli fizik 1 dunia tu merupakan para saintis barat! yg blasty pulak ambil dari translation Quran! Mana lagi betul? saintis barat ke Quran? ;) ;)

Mne ade. Ahli fizik Malaysia pun ckp cmtu. Kt Arab pun ckp cmtu. Cikgu math aku yg jd presiden surau n dijemput utk memberi ceramah pun ckp cmtu.

Jgn tuduh ye. Skrg, tunjukkan artikel yg ckp EM wave ngan photon tu berbeza.

aku_EnSeM

Originally posted by saden at 13-3-2009 05:52 PM

yg ahli fizik 1 dunia tu merupakan para saintis barat! yg blasty pulak ambil dari translation Quran! Mana lagi betul? saintis barat ke Quran? ;) ;)

saden, Allah ckp klu x tahu, belajar dr yg tahu. Xkire bangsa, xkire agama. Rasulullah pun ckp, menuntut ilmu biarlah sampai ke negeri Cina.

Kalaulah Rasulullah menolak org bukan Islam termasuk semua ilmu yg diorg ade, Rasulullah xkn suruh belajar ke Cina saden.

saden

lerrrr.. hehehehe..sure tak pay attention ni ;)

blastoff

Originally posted by aku_EnSeM at 13-3-2009 17:01


Ini bukn pasal percaya, ini psl physics fact. Ape yg blasty ckp goes back to centuries ago, dear. This is the kind of argument that they had.

When Maxwell derived his equations of electrom ...

Semua "pakar-pakar" yang kau sebut tu tau apa tentang corona ? Kau tilik balik bila depa mati kat info bawah ni , hmmm .....1879 , 1928 , 1947, 1955 ..... apa yang manusia ketika tu tau tentang corona ? Zeroooooooooo, depa tak tahu apa pun ! Baca article kat bawah nuuu yang aku pastekan mengenai corona yang memperlihatkan sekarang ni pun saintis tak tau apa pun dengan pasti tentang corona !

Jadi aku suggest kau pi korek balik kubur pakar-pakar physicists idola kau tu  , dan cakap kat badan-badan depa yang dah tinggal tulang belulang saja tu supaya depa hidup balik ( kalau boleh la , memandangkan kau claim kata depa tau itu ini , maka takkan depa tak boleh tau macam mana nak masuk balik nyawa dalam badan kot kan kan kan )  dan kau minta depa mai kaji semula tentang corona sampai depa faham betul tentang macam mana corona wujud sebelum depa memandai nak keluarkan teori itu ini mengenai cahaya , haba atau EM waves ok .

Allah terangkan dah jelas dalam Quran mengenai haba yang terdapat di corona dan di ketujuh-tujuh langit  , so pemahaman aku mengenai EM waves , light dan heat adalah melalui pemahaman aku dari Al Quran . Aku peduli apa pada pakar-pakar idola kau yang kau nak gahkan tu yang kesemuanya dah tak wujud lagi dah kat dunia ni , bukan depa yang cipta langit , EM waves , haba atau cahaya matahari yang menyebabkan depa tau segalanya mengenai semua perkara tu  .




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Wilhelm Carl Werner Otto Fritz Franz Wien (German: IPA: [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WikipediaPA][/viːn/][/url]) (13 January 1864

blastoff

The Sun's Corona

The Sun, in x-ray wavelengths

Of all the billions and billions of stars in the universe, only one small and fairly unremarkable star really matters to us: the star without which there would be no life on Earth -- our star, the Sun. Because of its proximity, the Sun is one of the most studied stars, but it has not yet revealed all its secrets.

One of the most puzzling features of the Sun is what has been dubbed "the solar corona problem." There is a region around the Sun, extending more than one million kilometers from its surface, where the temperature can reach two million degrees. This region, called the Solar Corona, is where the solar wind originates. The corona has been found to emit X-ray radiation (the corona is a plasma; at temperatures greater than a million degrees a plasma will radiate a lot of X-rays). The corona can be seen during solar eclipses, when the main radiation from the Sun's surface is blocked by the passage of the Moon.

The photosphere, chromosphere. and corona. Courtesy of Univ of Herts, UK

The Solar Corona, as seen in a total eclipse

The problem is, no one can really explain how this corona exists. Even if the temperature in the core of the Sun does reach 15 million degrees, it drops to a mere 5000 degrees at the surface. The temperature should be even lower farther away from the sun. But the temperature of the corona is measured at more than a million degrees. This incredibly hot temperature requires a permanent heating mechanism, or the plasma would cool down in about an hour. There are many mechanisms which could heat some gas above the surface of the Sun, but none of those mechanisms could account for the large rate of heating necessary to heat the corona. This phenomenon remained a mystery for more than 50 years.

Things have changed. Although the details of the answer are not completely known, it does seem that the solution is near. Using data from instruments onboard the SOlar and Heliospheric Observatory (SOHO) and from the more recent Transition Region And Coronal Explorer (TRACE), solar physicists have identified small patches of magnetic field covering the entire surface of the Sun. Contrary to the bright, large magnetic field loops which are linked to the "active regions" during periods of solar maxima, these patches seem to appear and disappear randomly in time scales on the order of 40 hours. Scientists now think that this magnetic carpet is probably a source of the corona's heat.

The SOHO spacecraft

A close-up of sunspots

According to Joseph Gurman, an astrophysicist at the Laboratory for Astronomy and Solar Physics at the Goddard Space Flight Center, people already suspected that magnetic fields were playing an active role in the Solar Corona problem. They thought the heat energy was coming from the active regions, where the spectacular giant loops are seen in Ultra-Violet and X-rays. But there was a problem with that theory: those giant loops disappeared during solar minima, while the corona does not.

Now most scientists believe that the heating of the corona is linked to the interaction of the magnetic field lines radiating out of the small patches mentioned above. Because the laws of electromagnetism prohibit the intersection of two magnetic field lines, every time magnetic field lines come close to crossing they are "rearranged," and this magnetic reconnection continuously heats the solar corona. It's a faily inefficient source of energy, but the sheer number of these small magnetic patches on the surface of the Sun makes the process a viable solution to the 50 year old problem of what heats the solar corona. All is not quite clear yet. No one has directly observed any magnetic field reconnection. Experts do not even agree on the approximate length of time these patches remain active. As a direct consequence of this theory, the heating process should occur much closer to the surface of the Sun than previously thought, but no one really knows how close. "We need to find proofs that (magnetic reconnection) is really the story" says Gurman. One proof could be plasma jets, which scientists expect to be produced by the reconnection process. They've observed the jets before, but there were unfortunately too few observations to get conclusive evidence.

Also, no one really knows what could produce these magnetic patches, which vary on such short timescales. Professor Edward Spiegel from Columbia University has suggested that the patches are produced by small dynamos located just beneath the surface of the Sun. But once again, no one has any definitive proof of the theory.

In this image of a sunspot, the dark regions are locations of positive magnetic polarity and the light regions are negative magnetic polarity.

The future of solar physics now resides in a better understanding of the magnetic reconnection phenomena and in future missions -- including a "Reconnection Microscope" devoted to the magnetic reconnection problem. The problems are very complex, but as Gurman pointedly notes, "If the Sun didn't have a magnetic field, it would be as boring as many astronomers believe it is".



http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/science/mysteries_l1/corona.html

aku_EnSeM

Originally posted by blastoff at 13-3-2009 06:20 PM


Semua "pakar-pakar" yang kau sebut tu tau apa tentang corona ? Kau tilik balik bila depa mati kat info bawah ni , hmmm .....1879 , 1928 , 1947, 1955 ..... apa yang manusia ketika tu tau te ...

Blasty, klu nk tau psl corona, kite kene tau sume basic teori psl bende tu. U said something about X-Ray, so kne r gune Planck's Equation. Klu ko cari ape2 paper psl corona pun, diorg akan refer balik kpde basic theory ni. Mne boleh buat explanation suke hati tanpa mematuhi teori2 yg lain. Psl tu jadi X-Ray memantul2 kt nebula mcm u ckp....

aku_EnSeM

Originally posted by blastoff at 13-3-2009 06:21 PM
The Sun's Corona
The Sun, in x-ray wavelengthsOf all the billions and billions of stars in the universe, only one small and fairly unrem ...

Dh bosan da bce post psl bende ni, dh boleh hafal da.... Tp u tetap xnk terime beberape fakta asas.

Semue penulis artikel tu akan refer balik kpde teori asas sebelum come out with that lengthy explanation, blasty.

Blasty kene blaja balik cmne physicists draw out conclusion. Klu blasty xnk terime teori2 fizik, blasty kene tolak sume teori psl corona, psl teori2 tu based on Planck's Equation, Relativity, Quantum Mechanics, n stuff like that.

Blasty fhm ke?

aku_EnSeM

Originally posted by saden at 13-3-2009 06:18 PM
lerrrr.. hehehehe..sure tak pay attention ni ;)

I'm paying attention, saden. U xnk terime teori fizik yg berasal dr Barat, bermakne u menolak arahan Rasulullah "Belajarlah sehingga ke negeri Cina". Ini kerana Rasulullah juga menerima ilmu dr pakar2 yg bukan beragama Islam.