ASWJ dan Syiah (bukan ASWJ vs Syiah)

Laxamana.

TP suruh Antique jawab menggunakan dalil... tapi TP sendiri hanya guna dalil Hamid Algar untuk menidakkan penyatuan di dalam Islam. Apa pulak dalil ASDWJ? Tak ade ke? Siapa yang sebenar nya meniupkan kebencian di sini?

billionaire

salam

tiada sunnah tiada syiah.
dengan apa kita akan beramal? mazhab apa dari pandangan fekah? ASWj mengeluarkan fatwa menolak Syiah dan malah ada yang menghukumkannya kafir.

sekiranya kita tidak harus bermusuhan, memang seharusnya! tetapi dalam sebuah perbincangan, perbezaan pendapat adalah wajar.

sekiranya antique mengatakan tidak elok diperdebatkan isu sahabat, maka sebenarnya isu syiah sunni telah lama tamat.bill akan nyatakan bahawa berbincanglah dengan baik, dan dalam perbincangan, isu2 sensitif pasti akan ditimbulkan. Cara bagaimana kita menanganinya lah yang menentukan jalannya perbincangan ilmiah ini.

kembali kepada Islam, maka Islam yg mana satu? Apabila semuanya telah berpecah2 dan sesat menyesatkan?
cuba anda semua fikirkan kembali, Rasulullah saaw bertahun2 sembahyang berJemaah  di hadapan para sahabat, namun mengapa sampai ada bermacam2 pandangan mengenai solat sahaja dan masing2 mengatakan itulah cara yg Nabi saaw buat!? lupakan dulu hal itu....

beginilah, kita berbincang dengan baik di dalam forum ini. dan kita tidak pula kafir mengkafirkan, dan mencaci maki golongan yg bukan segolongan dengan kita. bantu membantu dan bersama berjuang bahu membahu dalam kehidupan nyata. Afterall, kita semua Islam!

antiQue

Originally posted by Laxamana. at 2003-7-21 15:15:
Saya setuju lah saranan Antique agar tidak berpecah belah.... tapi, untuk bersatu perlu ada penyelesaian. Apakah penyelesaian nya? Adakah dengan bertolak ansur, give and take, yakni kongsi-kongsi,  ...

Salam bro Lax,

Bukan maksud saya untuk menyatakan bahawa kebenaran perlu disembunyikan hanya kerana inginkan perpaduan. Sebagai seorang Islam, perlu untuk kita menegakkan yang hak dan membelakangkan yang batil.

Saya lebih percaya pada peneutralan fikiran sebelum membawa perbincangan lebih jauh. Saya percaya apabila kita ingin mencari kebenaran, setiap pintu perlu dibuka dan ditinjau ke dalamnya. Tetapi kita sedia maklum masyarakat kita lebih suka membuka hanya satu pintu dan menutup yang lainnya. Saya dididik oleh seorang bapa yang amat saya homati, yang cukup berkelayakan dalam bidang agama, tetapi beliau mengajar saya tentang Islam dari hanya satu pintu, iaitu pintu mazhab Syafi抏. Saya dihantar ke sebuah sekolah agama berasrama penuh untuk menimba ilmu, di mana saya sekali lagi didedahkan kepada mazhab Syafi抏, dan perkara diluarnya dianggap asing, apatah lagi untuk menjangkau kepada syiah yang dianggap sesat. Jadi saya cukup faham tentang pendirian masyarakat kita.. apabila bercakap tentang agama, the essence of sunnism is just too strong! Ramai antara kita yang hanya nampak satu pintu kebenaran dan percaya bahawa apa yang ada dalam pintu-pintu lainnya itu confirm salah! To them, the one firqah mentioned in the hadith that will be accepted in heaven is just ASWJ!

Just my humble opinion, adakah ianya tindakan yang perlu untuk membawakan sesuatu  yang telah commonly dianggap menyalahi kebenaran apabila berhadapan dengan this type of mindset? Tidak ada yang akan menelitinya secara rasional dengan minda terbuka kerana the first perception in their mind will be : YOU ARE WRONG! The verdict is already given even before the trial is carried out! Do you think you can change the verdict even if you bring the truth nobody can challenge? Do you think they will even consider?

Pada saya perkara utama adalah untuk mengubah this type of mindset. Untuk membina akal lebih rasional dikalangan umat Islam. Untuk menanamkan sifat ingin mencari kebenaran secara bersungguhan dari al-Qur抋n dan sunnah Rasul. Apabila akal telah dapat menilai secara lebih rasional tanpa dibatasi oleh kelompok mazhab, baru ianya lebih mudah untuk mencari kebenaran secara terbuka.

Adakah saudara fikir kebanyakan dari ahli forum yang berforum dalam MM ini serius ingin mencari kebenaran? Saya personally rasa tidak. You look at the way people are arguing in this board. Ada  ahli forum yang hanya ingin mencari kemenangan, just to prove to others that they know more and they are more superior! Terlalu sedikit yang bersikap rasional dan berbincang untuk mencari kebenaran! Hasilnya

antiQue

Originally posted by Terong Pipit at 2003-7-21 16:10:
Assalaamu Alaikum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuhu antiQue,

Salam sdr TP,

Saya tidak berniat untuk memanjangkan apa-apa, dan saya harap jika sdr berniat untuk terus berbincang dengan saya (secara ilmiah dan secara sihat), we can do it in private channel. I'm willing to do the discussion with you, whichever channel you want to use.. Saya tidak mahu menjadikan thread ini sebagai thread perdebatan.

Cuma sedikit dari saya sebagai membalas apa yang sdr postkan .. lepas ni kalau nak teruskan discussion (discussion ye.. bukan pergaduhan ) we can do it in private.

TP faham kenapa kahwin Mut'ah dibolihkan semasa diawal Islam kerana ianya untuk mengelakkan ZINA... tetapi kalau Mut'ah digunakan untuk 'make love' dengan bangsa asing yang bukan Islam (nak rasa 'ikan' jenis lain) dan juga untuk 'melawat' pelacur itu adalah suatu PENYELEWENGAN YANG SAH! walau apa pun 'arguement' yang dibuat olih sahabat anda Bill..

Exactly why I asked you whether you checked very closely apa yang Syiah amalkan berkaitan dengan muta'ah.

Billionaire tidak akan berupaya mempengaruhi pemikiran saya, because I have my own stand and remember, I AM NOT A SHI'ITE. Saya punya cara pemikiran sendiri, which, in a lot of cases, DIFFERENT from Bill. Saya boleh membaca, saya boleh menulis, saya boleh mendengar, dan saya punya akal untuk berfikir, and I don't need Bill to tell me what to believe.

Hadis Nabi yang bermaksud: Kalau kita tidak dapat menahan nafsu syahwat hendaklah kamu berpuasa BUKANNYA kamu kena kahwin Mut'ah!!

Ada ke saya suruh saudara kahwin muta'ah kalau tak dapat kawal nafsu?

Saya tak minta saudara believe on muta'ah, dan saya tak pernah letak what is my stand, sdr pun tak pasti saya ni believe in muta'ah or not, kan? I just want everybody to look at all arguments from every angle and evaluate, to accept or to reject is based on the individual.

But since you started to put a hadith there, I just want to put some hadiths here just for reference, direct from sahih sittah :

Narrated Abu Jamra: I heard Ibn Abbas (giving a verdict) when he was asked about the Mut'a with the women, and he permitted it (Nikah al-Mut'a). On that a freed slave of his said to him, "That is only when it is very badly needed and (qualified permanent) women are scarce, or similar cases." On that, Ibn Abbas said, "Yes." (Sahih Bukhari)

"When a man from Syria asked Abdullah Ibn Umar about the Mut'a of women, he said it is Halaal. The man said: Your father had made it forbidden! Ibn Umar said: Do you think that if my father was forbidding it and the Messenger of Allah used to (allow) its practice, then you should leave the Sunnah and follow what my father said?" (Ad-Tarmidhi)

Jabir b. 'Abdullah reported: We contracted temporary marriage giving a handful of (tales or flour) as a dower during the lifetime of Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) and durnig the time of Abu Bakr until 'Umar forbade it in the case of 'Amr b. Huraith. (Muslim : Book 8, 3249)

Abu Nadra reported: While I was in the company of Jabir b. Abdullah, a person came to him and said that Ibn 'Abbas and Ibn Zubair differed on the two types of Mut'as (Tamattu' of Hajj and Tamattu' with women), whereupon Jabir said: We used to do these two during the lifetime of Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him). Umar then forbade us to do them, and so we did not revert to them. (Muslim, Book 8, 3250)

Sabra Juhanni reported: Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) permitted temporary marriage for us. So I and another person went out and saw a woman of Bana 'Amir, who was like a young long-necked she-camel. We presented ourselves to her (for contracting temporary marriage), whereupon she said: What dower would you give me? I said: My cloak. And my companion also said: My cloak. And the cloak of-my companion was superior to my cloak, but I was younger than he. So when she looked at the cloak of my companion she liked it, and when she cast a glance at me I looked more attractive to her. She then said: Well, you and your cloak are sufficient for me. I remained with her for three nights, and then Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: He who has any such woman with whom he had contracted temporary marriage, he should let her off. (Muslim, Book 8, 3252)

Abdullah (b. Mas'ud) reported: We were on an expedition with Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) and we had no women with us. We said: Should we not have ourselves castrated? He (the Holy Prophet) forbade us to do so He then granted us permission that we should contract temporary marriage for a stipulated period giving her a garment, and 'Abdullah then recited this verse: 'Those who believe do not make unlawful the good things which Allah has made lawful for you, and do not transgress. Allah does not like trangressers" (al-Qur'an, v. 87).

'Abd al-Malik b. Rabi' b. Sabraal-Juhanni reported on the authority of his father who narrated it on the authority of his father (i e. 'Abd al-Malik's grandfather, Sabura al-juhanni): Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) permitted us to contract temporary marriage in the Year of Victory, as we entered Mecce, and we did come out of it but he forbade us to do it. (Muslim, Book 8, 3257)

'Ali (Allah be pleased with him) heard that Ibn Abbas (Allah be pleased with them) gave some relaxation in connection with the contracting of temporary marriage, whereupon he said: Don't be hasty (in your religious verdict), Ibn 'Abbas, for Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) on the Day of Khaibar prohibited for ever the doing of it-And eating of the flesh of domestic asses. (Muslim, Book 8, 3266)

Just to put some of the hadiths for reference untuk rakan-rakan lain mengkaji.. itu saja...

Anyway.. bro TP, what sirah you want to discuss tentang arak? Maybe we can do it in private.. I just don't want to disturb this thread further

[ Last edited by antiQue on 21-7-2003 at 09:12 PM ]

Originally posted by antiQue at 2003-7-21 12:57:
Salam sdr TP,
But since you started to put a hadith there, I just want to put some hadiths here just for reference, direct from sahih sittah :

Narrated Abu Jamra: I heard Ibn Abbas (giving a verdict) when he was asked about the Mut'a with the women, and he permitted it (Nikah al-Mut'a). On that a freed slave of his said to him, "That is only when it is very badly needed and (qualified permanent) women are scarce, or similar cases." On that, Ibn Abbas said, "Yes." (Sahih Bukhari)

"When a man from Syria asked Abdullah Ibn Umar about the Mut'a of women, he said it is Halaal. The man said: Your father had made it forbidden! Ibn Umar said: Do you think that if my father was forbidding it and the Messenger of Allah used to (allow) its practice, then you should leave the Sunnah and follow what my father said?" (Ad-Tarmidhi)

Jabir b. 'Abdullah reported: We contracted temporary marriage giving a handful of (tales or flour) as a dower during the lifetime of Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) and durnig the time of Abu Bakr until 'Umar forbade it in the case of 'Amr b. Huraith. (Muslim : Book 8, 3249)

Abu Nadra reported: While I was in the company of Jabir b. Abdullah, a person came to him and said that Ibn 'Abbas and Ibn Zubair differed on the two types of Mut'as (Tamattu' of Hajj and Tamattu' with women), whereupon Jabir said: We used to do these two during the lifetime of Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him). Umar then forbade us to do them, and so we did not revert to them. (Muslim, Book 8, 3250)

Sabra Juhanni reported: Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) permitted temporary marriage for us. So I and another person went out and saw a woman of Bana 'Amir, who was like a young long-necked she-camel. We presented ourselves to her (for contracting temporary marriage), whereupon she said: What dower would you give me? I said: My cloak. And my companion also said: My cloak. And the cloak of-my companion was superior to my cloak, but I was younger than he. So when she looked at the cloak of my companion she liked it, and when she cast a glance at me I looked more attractive to her. She then said: Well, you and your cloak are sufficient for me. I remained with her for three nights, and then Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: He who has any such woman with whom he had contracted temporary marriage, he should let her off. (Muslim, Book 8, 3252)

Abdullah (b. Mas'ud) reported: We were on an expedition with Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) and we had no women with us. We said: Should we not have ourselves castrated? He (the Holy Prophet) forbade us to do so He then granted us permission that we should contract temporary marriage for a stipulated period giving her a garment, and 'Abdullah then recited this verse: 'Those who believe do not make unlawful the good things which Allah has made lawful for you, and do not transgress. Allah does not like trangressers" (al-Qur'an, v. 87).

'Abd al-Malik b. Rabi' b. Sabraal-Juhanni reported on the authority of his father who narrated it on the authority of his father (i e. 'Abd al-Malik's grandfather, Sabura al-juhanni): Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) permitted us to contract temporary marriage in the Year of Victory, as we entered Mecce, and we did come out of it but he forbade us to do it. (Muslim, Book 8, 3257)

'Ali (Allah be pleased with him) heard that Ibn Abbas (Allah be pleased with them) gave some relaxation in connection with the contracting of temporary marriage, whereupon he said: Don't be hasty (in your religious verdict), Ibn 'Abbas, for Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) on the Day of Khaibar prohibited for ever the doing of it-And eating of the flesh of domestic asses. (Muslim, Book 8, 3266)

Just to put some of the hadiths for reference untuk rakan-rakan lain mengkaji.. itu saja......

Salam Saudari antiQue,

TP mengakui akan terdapatnya hadis-hadis yang saudari perturunkan disini dan ianya benar TETAPI bagi TP, semua hadis-hadis telah di 'over right' olih hadis yang antiQue sebutkan juga iaitu:
'Ali (Allah be pleased with him) heard that Ibn Abbas (Allah be pleased with them) gave some relaxation in connection with the contracting of temporary marriage, whereupon he said: Don't be hasty (in your religious verdict), Ibn 'Abbas, for Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) on the Day of Khaibar prohibited forever the doing of it-And eating of the flesh of domestic asses. (Muslim, Book 8, 3266)

atau

Nombor Hadis Dalam Sahih Muslim: 2510
Hadis Ali bin Abi Talib k.w:
Sesungguhnya Rasulullah s.a.w melarang iaitu umat Islam berkahwin secara mut'ah pada hari peperangan Khaibar. Rasulullah s.a.w juga melarang dari memakan daging keldai peliharaan pada hari tersebut.

KESIMPULANnya kahwin mut'ah yang memang menjadi amalan semasa zaman jahiliyah dan ianya dibenarkan diperingkat awal perkembangan Islam TETAPI telah diharamkan selama-lamanya semasa the DAY OF KHAIBAR!!!

Originally posted by antiQue at 2003-7-21 12:57:Anyway.. bro TP, what sirah you want to discuss tentang arak? Maybe we can do it in private.. I just don't want to disturb this thread further......

Untuk diskusi, Sdri antiQue bolih hantaq e-mail or discuss in PM. My e-mail address: terong_pipit@hotmail.com. Insya'allah TP akan berdiskusi dengan nama Allah SWT yang Maha Mengetahui dan Maha Mengasihani.

Untuk renungan bersama.....
Nombor Hadis Dalam Sahih Muslim: 4641
Hadis Anas bin Malik r.a:
Sesungguhnya Rasulullah s.a.w bersabda: Janganlah kamu saling benci-membenci, dengki-mendengki dan sindir-menyindir. Jadilah kamu sebagai hamba-hamba Allah yang bersaudara. Haram seseorang muslim berkelahi dengan saudaranya lebih dari tiga hari lamanya

Nombor Hadis Dalam Sahih Muslim: 2996
Hadis Nukman bin Basyir r.a katanya:
Aku mendengar Rasulullah s.a.w bersabda, sambil Nukman memegang kedua belah telinganya: Sesungguhnya perkara halal itu jelas dan perkara haram itu pun jelas. Manakala di antara kedua-duanya terdapat perkara-perkara syubhat yang tidak diketahui oleh orang ramai. Oleh itu, sesiapa menjaga diri dari perkara syubhat, dia telah bebas (dari kecaman) untuk agamanya dan kehormatannya dan sesiapa yang terjerumus ke dalam syubhat, bererti dia telah terjerumus ke dalam perkara haram, seperti penggembala yang menggembala di sekitar kawasan larangan, maka kemungkinan besar binatangnya akan memasuki kawasan tersebut. Ingatlah! Sesungguhnya setiap penguasa (kerajaan), memiliki daerah terlarang. Ingatlah! Sesungguhnya daerah yang terlarang milik Allah adalah apa saja yang diharamkan-Nya. Ingatlah! Sesungguhnya di dalam tubuh manusia itu ada segumpal daging, apabila ia baik maka baiklah seluruh tubuhnya dan jikalau ia rosak, maka rosaklah seluruh tubuhnya, tidak lain dan tidak bukan itulah yang dikatakan hati


Wassalam

nahzaluz

Assalamualaikum wrh wbth kepada semua: Tuan-tuan Moderator, MK, TP, MG, Gapodio, Bill, Lax, Irfani dll. :bg:

Maaf sebab dah banyak hari tak sempat nak berforum, tak dan nak post apa-apa sebab dok kalut. Sebenarnya isteri saya nak bersalin. Hari ni due datenya. Bimbang takut nanti lama sangat saya menyepikan diri setelah isteri saya bersalin, jadi hari ni minta izin Tuan Moderator berdua nak mencelah sikit kat thread Tuan Moderator ni.

==============

Bill,

Saya tidak nafikan ada dari kalangan ulama’ ASWJ mengeluarkan fatwa menolak Syiah dan malah ada yang menghukumkannya kafir. Perkara yang sama juga dilakukan oleh ulama’ Syiah. Tetapi Syiah yang macam manakah yang dikafirkan dan pegangan Syiah yang macam manakah yang ditolak oleh ASWJ?

==============

Tuan Moderator berdua yang dihormati,

Biar apapun yang berlaku, kita semua tahu bahawa suatu usaha telah dibuat untuk mendekatkan (taqrib) di antara 2 mazhab terbesar ini. Ramai ulama’ ASWJ dan Syiah yang terlibat dalam jawatankuasa ini. Walaupun di sana ada ulama’ ASWJ yang telah menarik diri ekoran pengalaman pahit yang mereka lalui, tetapi bagi saya, sekiranya kedua-dua belah pihak saling ikhlas, tidak salah kalau usaha itu diteruskan. Dan usaha yang sama juga boleh kita lakukan di forum ini. Terserahlah kepada Tuan Moderater berdua cara yang hendak digunapakai.

Tetapi di dalam perbincangan, perbezaan atau khilaf pendapat tidak dapat dielakkan. Yang penting ialah kalau mahu berbincang, marilah kita berbincang secara ikhlas,  ilmiyyah, jelas, tanpa kata mengata dsbnya. Sebab itulah bagi saya, sekiranya pihak yang berbincang atau berhujah dgn saya menyebut sumber rujukannya, saya suka merujuk kepada kitab atau sumbernya asal yang dia ambil. Ia akan mengambil masa tetapi bagi saya, yang penting ialah saya membuat keputusan untuk berpegang kepada sesuatu adalah berdasarkan ilmu yang yakin.

Saya juga tidak kisah samada apa yang saya postkan itu diterima atau tidak. Yang penting ialah memperjelaskan pandangan ulama’ ASWJ dalam isu-isu yang dibangkitkan.

Semoga perbincangan yang sihat dapat diteruskan di forum ini.

Wassalam :bg:

Salam semua,

Ingin ambil kesempatan ini mengucapkan tahniah untuk nahzalus.
semoga bahagia.

cakap pasal syiah dan aswj.

saya pun fikir juga pasal apa ada dua puak ini.   
saya baca buku pasal asal usul dua puak ini. saya faham sedkit sebanyak. saya kaji jalan sejarah dua puak ini sejak 622Masihi.

banyak yang negative. tak payah sebut. 3 minggu sudah kat masjid di pakistan.

saya cuba fikirkan yang baik. apa yang baik yang telah di bawa oleh dua golongan ini.  saya tak nampak lagi, walau pun satu. sebelum saya buat kesimpulan saya sendiri, saya harap sesiapa di sini dapat bantu saya senaraikan kebaikan atau  "success stories" yang telah di ukirkan oleh dua pihak ini, secara kooperasi atau secara sendiri sendiri.

Mungkin ada sesiapa disini yang telah terbaca kisah kisah positive tentang syiah dan aswj berpadu tenaga untuk kebaikan ugama anutan mereka.

saya hargai perkongsian informasi anda.

nahzalus, sekali lagi tahniah!

salam

antiQue

Salam bro nahzaluz,

Alhamdulillah.. harapnya ada orang baru akan tiba hari ini dengan selamat, insyaallah Saya doakan segalanya selamat.

Pada saya tidak ada salahnya untuk berbincang secara ilmiah. Saya yakin seorang Islam yang benar-benar ikhlas tidak akan melenting dengan perbezaan pendapat dari saudaranya. Kita berusaha mencari kebenarannya menerusi Qur'an dan hadith. Sebab itu perbincangan yang melibatkan perkara sensitif dalam forum ini tidak pernah saya delete, kerana ianya banyak gunanya kepada rakan-rakan forum yang lain.

Cuma apa yang lebih membimbangkan saya, dan juga bro amorist, adalah kehadiran rakan-rakan islam yang saya rasakan kurang bertanggungjawab (maaf) dan tidak rational dalam berbincang (dalam erti kata lain, golongan yang hanya ingin menang), dan mereka inilah sebenarnya yang merosakkan perbincangan, dan mereka inilah yang kami cuba tegur.

Sekiranya setiap dari kita dapat buang sikap sebegitu, nescaya perbincangan-perbincangan melibatkan khilaf pendapat tidak akan menjadi negatif, malah akan terus hanya menjadi satu perbincangan ilmiyah yang sangat baik.

Tetapi malangnya, lebih banyak ahli yang mengacau dari ahli yang benar-benar serius berbincang. Ahli-ahli yang mengacau inilah yang selalunya cukup taksub pada pegangan sendiri hinggakan kabur mata dari melihat hujjah saudara yang berbeza pendapat darinya. They are the one who pass the judgement even before the trial begins, walaupun pada pengamatan saya kebanyakan darinya TIDAK TAHU APA-APA!

Teruskan berforum secara ilmiah. Saya akan menyokong sekiranya ianya tidak merosakkan perhubungan kita sesama muslim di dalam forum ini. YANG PENTING ADALAH UNTUK KITA MENGHORMATI PENDAPAT ANTARA SATU DENGAN LAIN.

Untuk yang rasa mengacau tu.. tolooooooonglah... tolong jangan bagi saya geram

Assalaamu Alaikum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuhu kepada semua terutama, Tuan Moderator, Cik Moderator, Nahzaluz, MK, MG, Gapodio, Bill, Lax, Irfani dll..

TP bersetuju dengan hujah-hujah yang berilmiah tetapi bagimana pulak dengan hujah saperti berikut:?

Originally posted by Laxamana. at 2003-7-21 00:29:
:bg: Merampas Fadak... Siti Fatimah marah dan tidak bercakap dengan Abu Bakar dan Omar lagi selepas itu... Saiyidina Ali dalam keadaan dibelenggu leher nya dan sahabat-sahabat nya dipaksa membaiat Abu Bakar secara kasar, bahkan Omar memberi ugutan bunuh ke atas Saiyidina Ali Karamallah Wajhah... Siti Fatimah meninggal pada usia muda setelah sakit akibat dari keguguran anak akibat pukulan oleh Al Mal'un dari kumpulan Omar yang menyerang rumah Ahlul Bait... Aisyah memberontak dan mahu membunuh Khalifah Ar Rashidin Ali bin Abi Talib, sehingga 20,000 orang Islam mati... dan banyak lagi.... ini semua tak dapat dinafikan awang-awang ooi... kalau tak belajar, belajar lah......

Apa pandangan Tuan Moderator dan Cik Moderator? Adakah ini contoh hujah-hujah yang berhemah tinggi saperti yang dikehendaki olih Moderator?

Tahniah diucapkan pada Sdr Nahzaluz dan selamat menimbang cahaya mata. Semoga ibu dan anak dikurniakan kelapangan dan selalu dirahmati Allah SWT.

salam
1  selepas kejayaan revolusi islam di iran, imam khomeini telah mengisytihar hari' al quds' ie liberation of palestine(negara sunni) dari zionis pada setiap jumaat terakhir bln ramadan. di us,perarakan diadakan di washington dc dan bandar lain dgn slogan pembebasan dan anti zionis/us.di washington dc upacara tamat selepas solat jumaat yg diadakan di tepi jalan depan masjid dimana imam asal disingkir dan ditadbir pula oleh saudi
2  ada juga semasa perang bosnia....ketika umat islam disana dibunuh sekian lama oleh serb... iran telah hantar bantuan ketenteraan lalu barulah amerika campurtangan utk megekang pengaruh iran
3   hari kelahiran nabi kita jatuh pada 12 rabuil awal(sunni) dan 17 (syiah)...hari2 antara 12 dan 17 diistihakan hari persaudaraan oleh iran

Salam semua.

Apa Quran kata pasal berpuak-puak?

Saya sedia maklum hampir semua disini memang sanagt maklum

akan ujudnya ayat ayat di bawah ini dalam Quran. kerana

semuanya memang nampak hebat hebat bila berforum.

Intepretasi setaip individu tentang ayat Quran pastinya

berbeza. Saya hormat.

Saya cuma ambil kesempatan ini untuk sama sama mengambil

pengajaran dari ayat ayat di bawah. lembutkan hati kita.

Kenapa kita berkeras menggelar diri kita aswj atau syiah.

Kenapa kita tidak gelarkan saja saya seorang yang tunduk

dengan  (muslim). harmony.

Today, We have been stiched together in a complex

religeous undestanding which interweaving of spiritual,

heat wave of more that 1000 years old political interest,

philosophical and economic concept that pretty much govern

our collective religous experience. It has been quite

difficult to tell apart what is right what is wrong.  We

are like a lost person wandering around trying hard to

find way home.

The only map available is the Quran.

Please, please. I beg each of us read Quran daily and heed

the message. Prostrate our heart the the command of Allah

in the Quran.

May Allah bless you.


Salam.

6:159
As for those who divide their religion and break up into

sects, thou hast no part in them in the least: their

affair is with Allah. He will in the end tell them the

truth of all that they did.


22:78
And strive in His cause as ye ought to strive, (with

sincerity and under discipline). He has chosen you, and

has imposed no difficulties on you in religion; it is the

cult of your father Abraham. It is He Who has named you

Muslims, both before and in this (Revelation); that the

Messenger may be a witness for you, and ye be witnesses

for mankind! So establish regular Prayer, give regular

Charity, and hold fast to Allah. He is your Protector -

the Best to protect and the Best to help!


30:31 Turn ye back in repentance to Him, and fear Him:

establish regular prayers, and be not ye among those who

join gods with Allah,-

30:32 Those who split up their Religion, and become (mere)

Sects,- each party rejoicing in that which is with itself!


10:93
We settled the Children of Israel in a beautiful

dwelling-place, and provided for them sustenance of the

best: it was after knowledge had been granted to them,

that they fell into schisms. Verily Allah will judge

between them as to the schisms amongst them, on the Day of

Judgment.

3:103
And hold fast, all together, by the rope which Allah

(stretches out for you), and be not divided among

yourselves; and remember with gratitude Allah.s favour on

you; for ye were enemies and He joined your hearts in

love, so that by His Grace, ye became brethren; and ye

were on the brink of the pit of Fire, and He saved you

from it. Thus doth Allah make His Signs clear to you: That

ye may be guided.


45:17
And We granted them Clear Signs in affairs (of Religion):

it was only after knowledge had been granted to them that

they fell into schisms, through insolent envy among

themselves. Verily thy Lord will judge between them on the

Day of Judgment as to those matters in which they set up

differences.


42:13
The same religion has He established for you as that which

He enjoined on Noah - the which We have sent by

inspiration to thee - and that which We enjoined on

Abraham, Moses, and Jesus: Namely, that ye should remain

steadfast in religion, and make no divisions therein: to

those who worship other things than Allah, hard is the

(way) to which thou callest them. Allah chooses to Himself

those whom He pleases, and guides to Himself those who

turn (to Him).

42:14
And they became divided only after Knowledge reached

them,- through selfish envy as between themselves. Had it

not been for a Word that went forth before from thy Lord,

(tending) to a Term appointed, the matter would have been

settled between them: But truly those who have inherited

the Book after them are in suspicious (disquieting) doubt

concerning it.

Originally posted by dad22alis at 22-7-2003 04:20 PM:
salam
1  selepas kejayaan revolusi islam di iran, imam khomeini telah mengisytihar hari' al quds' ie liberation of palestine(negara sunni) dari zionis pada setiap jumaat terakhir bln ramadan. di u ...

salam

hmm...menarik. terimakaseh.

any effort from aswj side? anyone care to point out?

appreciate it.

peace

Terlebih Kuah

salam
1  selepas kejayaan revolusi islam di iran, imam khomeini telah mengisytihar hari' al quds' ie liberation of palestine(negara sunni) dari zionis pada setiap jumaat terakhir bln ramadan. di us,perarakan diadakan di washington dc dan bandar lain dgn slogan pembebasan dan anti zionis/us.di washington dc upacara tamat selepas solat jumaat yg diadakan di tepi jalan depan masjid dimana imam asal disingkir dan ditadbir pula oleh saudi
2  ada juga semasa perang bosnia....ketika umat islam disana dibunuh sekian lama oleh serb... iran telah hantar bantuan ketenteraan lalu barulah amerika campurtangan utk megekang pengaruh iran
3   hari kelahiran nabi kita jatuh pada 12 rabuil awal(sunni) dan 17 (syiah)...hari2 antara 12 dan 17 diistihakan hari persaudaraan oleh iran

Tida perlu itu semua.

Walaupun hanya menampaldi sini dari website.
......

Bahman Shakoury was amongst the prominent scholars of his area, Tonalis, and was active in Da'wah within intellectuals. He was arrested and convicted with Wahhabism and executed in 1986.

Sheikh Mawlawi Abdul Aziz was one of the elite leaders of Ahlus Sunnah who played a prominent role in opposing the Constitution in matters relating to Ahlus Sunnah rights. He was the director of the religious school of Zahdan and the chief of Baluchi armed tribes. He was poisoned in 1987.

Sheikh Abdul Wahhab Khafi played a notable role in exposing the calamities of Ahlus Sunnah outside Iran, especially in Pakistan. He was killed in 1990 under torture after being accused with Wahhabism.

Sheikh Nasser Sabhani was one of the leaders of Sunnah in Kurdistan who conducted many educational courses. He was arrested after refuting the false accusations of kufr directed at Umar (r.a.a) by Khomeini in his famous book 'al-Hukumah al-Islamiah' (The Islamic Government). He was killed in 1992 in prison and his relatives were denied from witnessing his funeral and the prayer.

Dr. Ali Muzhaffaryan was amongst the eminent intellectual Shi'ites who was a cardiac surgeon and the head of Shiraaz Committee of Physicians. He embraced the school of Ahlus Sunnah wa al-Jamma'ah and then converted his house to a mosque because the government of Shiraaz did not permit the establishment of mosques. He was arrested and convicted with Wahhabism and American treachery and tortured severely when many Shi'ite youth followed him into Sunnism. He was later released only to be assassinated in 1992.
Moreover, the following are some of Ahlus Sunnah's mosques and Islamic schools that were destroyed:


Al-Sunnah mosque in Ahwaz. The first Sunni mosque to be confiscated before twar with Iraq. It was transformed to a security police centre.

South of Tehran. The second Sunni mosque to be confiscated was in 1982.

Tareeth Ham mosque. This mosque is in the state of Kharasan. It was transformed to a centre for the revolutionary guard.

School and mosque of Lakour. It is situated near the city of Jabahar in Baluchistan state. The government demolished the mosque and the school in 1987 under the accusation that it was a center for Wahhabis.

Al-Sunnah mosque in Shiraz. Confiscated after the murder of Dr. Muzaffar Ban who founded it, and transformed to a centre for selling video and audio tapes produced by the revolutionary guard.

Sheikh Faydh mosque. This is an ancient Sunnah mosque in Mashhad, one of the main Shi'ah centres of the world. The government could not tolerate the continued existence of this mosque in the city, so it demolished it in 1993, under the supervision of the revolutionary guard, who also demolished adjoining centres which were used as guest houses and Qur'an memorisation centres. The demolition orders came from Khameni personally, the present spiritual leader of Iran. What is amazing is the fact that the demolition of this mosque occurred immediately after the government- sponsored demonstrations against the demolition of the Babary Mosque in India by the Hindus.

Ahlus Sunnah School, Talish. The government confiscated the Ahlus Sunnah school at Talish -North-West of Iran. Sheikh Quraishy, the principal of the school was also arrested and alleged confessions were obtained from him under torture.

Aaban mosque Mashhad city. They confiscated the land, demolished the walls, and expelled the trustee.

Repair of roads. They also repair the roads from time to time, eg. in the city of Zahdan, in order to demolish Sunnah houses, mosques and schools in the name of alleged reconstruction.

http://www.islam.org.au/articles/24/iran.htm
.....

TK telah lama perhatikan netter yg yg konon nya mengikut jejak Ahlul bait menuturkan kata-kata seperti berikut.

Bini-Bini Rasullulah.
Al Mal'un.

....................................

billionaire

salam

saudara nahzalus,
syiah Imamiyyah termasuk dalam pengharaman itu, ambil contoh di Malaysia tercinta ini sahaja. jakim memasukkan syiah dalam golongan sesat. mengenai taqrib itu, di malaysia pun pernah diadakan pada tahun 90an, namun Syiah tetap dipandang sesat di Malaysia. Adapun kenyataan anda mengenai perasaan tersentuh hati beberapa orang ulamak itu,maka ia datang dari sebelah pihak - anda - sahaja maka dan mungkin tidak perlu dibangkitkan.

dan terlebih kuah, anda mungkin harus melihat semula sebab thread ini dibuka, dan baca dari mula. Mungkin anda bisa belajar sesuatu darinya. Boleh juga jika anda melihat tulisan2 sis Antique, dad22alis, Nahzalus, Amorist, ione2bliv dll bahawa thread ini bukan utk memanjangkan permasalahan disekitar ASWJ dan Syiah. Anda seolah terlupa (atau tidak tahu) bahawa syiah menghadapi kezaliman dan penindasan sepanjang zaman, dan apakah anda fikir sekiranya kami membawakannya ke sini (bagi menjawab anda), maka jurang ini dapat didekatkan? Dan anda juga harus berlaku adil dengan tidak hanya melihat pada perbuatan forumner syiah dan memejamkan mata terhadap perbuatan golongan anda.  Namun memang telah terbiasa dalam usaha perbaikan sentiasa ada sahaja yg akan mencari2 sebab utk mencipta sebab2 utk terus berlangsungnya permusuhan. baca dari awal kerana anda mungkin boleh belajar sesuatu.

p/s: terong pipit, betul seperti kata sis Antique bahawa isu mutaah telah lama dibincangkan dan telah selesai. Anda juga tidak harus menjadikan nafsu amarah anda sebagai alat utk menjadikan antique sebagai sasarannya hanya kerana beliau berbeza pendapat. Sekiranya anda mahu, buka satu thread khusus utk membincangkannya dengan syarat kita (anda atau saya) harus tunduk kepada hujjah!

Laxamana.

Bila saya guna istilah yang keras, tahu pulak TP kata tak elok dsb nya dan mengadu pada moderators.... bila dia tuduh Mazhab Ahlul Bait dan Syiah sebagai mewar-warkan PEMBOHONGAN terlebih dahulu, itu dikira sebagai beretika pula.... itu lah ayam jantan yang berkokok tak nampak tahi di ekor sendiri...

Terlebih Kuah

Originally posted by billionaire at 2003-7-22 05:31 PM:
dan terlebih kuah, anda mungkin harus melihat semula sebab thread ini dibuka, dan baca dari mula. Mungkin anda bisa belajar sesuatu darinya. Boleh juga jika anda melihat tulisan2 sis Antique, dad22alis, Nahzalus, Amorist, ione2bliv dll bahawa thread ini bukan utk memanjangkan permasalahan disekitar ASWJ dan Syiah. Anda seolah terlupa (atau tidak tahu) bahawa syiah menghadapi kezaliman dan penindasan sepanjang zaman, dan apakah anda fikir sekiranya kami membawakannya ke sini (bagi menjawab anda), maka jurang ini dapat didekatkan? Dan anda juga harus berlaku adil dengan tidak hanya melihat pada perbuatan forumner syiah dan memejamkan mata terhadap perbuatan golongan anda.  Namun memang telah terbiasa dalam usaha perbaikan sentiasa ada sahaja yg akan mencari2 sebab utk mencipta sebab2 utk terus berlangsungnya permusuhan. baca dari awal kerana anda mungkin boleh belajar sesuatu.

TK Baca dari awal.

Kalau anda hendak bawakan hingga berpuluh-puluh mukasurat bawalah. Jangan lupa sila bawakan sekali pengkhianatan puak Syiah terhadap Ahl Bait. Mungkin anda lupa Puak syiah sendiri menjadi pengkhianat kepada Ahl Bait sendiri.

TK samasekali tidak percaya tentang jurang boleh dapat didekatkan. Sepertimana sebelum Shah Iran jatuh. Sunni dan Syiah cukup erat sekali, tetapi apabila Shah jatuh, Contoh seperti di atas. Sepertimana bidasan yg dilakukan oleh Nahzalus dan anda cuma ulang, ulang, ulang dan ulang perkara sama seperti Fada' + Penyerangan ke Rumah Fatimah. TIDAK MENGAPA ANDA BOLEH ULANG, ULANG, ULANG DAN ULANG LAGI DAN LAGI.

ANDA PERLU BELAJAR SUPAYA TIDAK MENGULANG.

Anda mengatakan TK pejam mata dan tidak berlaku adil kepada forumer Syiah. Baiklah, dikalangan netter yg menyokong ASWJ disini mencaci nista Ahl Bait dengan seperti perkataan AL MAL'UN dan BINI-BINI NABI atau CACI MAKI?

Tidak perlu menasihatkan TK.

Laxamana.

Syiah khianat  kat mana...? Menyintai Ahlul Bait serupa dengan berkhianat kah? Hang tau ke siapa Al Mal'un tu? Kalau tak tau jangan cakap la... :2cool:

billionaire

salam
sekali lagi wahai terlebih kuah, mungkin anda perlu baca thread ini dari awal dan fahami objektifnya.

wassalam

p/s: mengenai ulang2 itu, adalah kerana tidak berjawab soalan2 itu, sedangkan perbincangan telah dibawa lari dari persoalan. Mungkin ada satu cara utk menghentikan soalan ulang2 itu = anda tolonglah beri jawapan kepada soalan2 itu.

Salam.

hmmm....looks like we are about to re-visit the journey of the people of the past, the path of shi'ite and sunni.  going round and round, breaking your back with old issue. taking anybody to nowwhere.

TK, with due respect, thank you for what you have just paste, but there is nothing new about it and there is nothing for us muslims to be proud off.  What good does it bring?  

Lax and TP, why not you give yourselves a break. Ponder what both of you are currently stuck with.  Ego.

Come on folks, bring something new to the table.

Do not repeat the mistake of the past.  I am fully aware each of here have a very strong opinion about this issue. That is good.

But please control your adrenaline.
If not this is just another thread. it is shame.


Suggestion:
Anybody what share what you think of these Quranic verses below?

6:159 /22:78 / 30:31 / 10:93 / 3:103 / 45:17 / 42:13 / 42:14

Amorist, Mr. Moderator, you are too silent about it. Why not you start first. Do not just throw the ball  and forget it.



Peace.

amorist

Jika Imam Malik dan Imam Abu Hanifa boleh berguru dengan Imam Jaafar Sadiq (seorang imam Syiah), mengapa hari ini ASWJ dan Syiah tak boleh sepakat?

Imam Jaafar Sadiq dikatakan telah berkata lebih kurang:

"If you see something you don't like in your brother try to find from one to seventy excuses for him. If you can't find an excuse, say, 'There might be an excuse but I don't know it.'"

"If you hear a word from a Muslim which is offensive, try to find a good meaning for it. If you don't find a good meaning for it, say to yourself, 'I do not understand what he said,' in order to keep harmony between Muslims."

Imam Jaafar Sadiq juga dilaporkan pernah berkata,

"The best intercession that I hope for is the intercession of Abu Bakr as-Siddiq ."

Dia juga dilaporkan pernah berkata: "O Allah, You are my Witness that I love Abu Bakr and I love 'Umar and if what I am saying is not true may Allah cut me off from the intercession of  Muhammad ."

[ Last edited by amorist on 23-7-2003 at 06:56 AM ]