Dear brother Truth, when you renounce Islam...

Sephiroth

by Truth.8

why must confused ourselves with reincarnation? Right now seeking the true God. I have found it. Whether reincarnation exist or not thats is not important. Right now at this momenth we do good to others, love one another and worship the True God.

AND

by Debmey

There is no such thing as reincarnation. What we read abt reincarnated lamas can be explained by what we call familiar spirits. ...

However, there is eternal life. You can have eternal life through faith in God's grace.

Hmmm ... what a pity. Expecting some interesting comments here. :cf: How well ...

I think I finally understand why Muslims and Christians are against Reincarnation, but that's a different story. Maybe I will open a thread here later and piss both Christians AND Muslims when I feel bored. ;)

Truth.8

Originally posted by Sephiroth at 17-9-2003 08:08 AM:
by Truth.8

why must confused ourselves with reincarnation? Right now seeking the true God. I have found it. Whether reincarnation exist or not thats is not important. Right now at this momenth w ...

reincarnation is part human illusion.

Sephiroth

by Truth.8

reincarnation is part human illusion.

If you say so ... :re:

Hi Sephi,

Hope you don't regard this as an attack on Hinduism, but just my contribution about my understanding of the  Muslim stand on reincarnation.

The term reincarnation means rebirth of the soul in another body. Hindus/Buddhists believe that (pls correct me if I'm wrong)  that reincarnation is repeated numerous times till reaching perfection.

We regard this as a speculative theory -  based on the following explanation (by giving an example, to enhance understanding):

When a seed is planted, after the blossoming of the plant, new seeds come forth and the same process repeats itself time and time again. The seed is always one of the same species, yet it is never the same seed which was originally planted. What is more, each seed is also indirectly the source of innumerable other seeds. Therefore, one could not call this process the reincarnation of an individual seed.

Is one a machine or an engineer? If one is a machine, one then lingers on for ever in mechanical irresponsibility. If one is an engineer, one becomes the master of one's destiny, in which case one is responsible for any deeds that might weigh as heavy burdens on one's conscience.

Heaven and hell are the worlds of one's own conscience, and that which survives in the hereafter are those same worlds which we ourselves have created within ourselves here on this dense earth, where the laws of cause and effect are solid reality.

[ Last edited by KENNKID on 18-9-2003 at 10:15 AM ]

Sephiroth

by KENNKID

Hope you don't regard this as an attack on Hinduism, but just my contribution about my understanding of the  Muslim stand on reincarnation.

Actually I wanted to make my own thread about Reincarnation ... maybe I should.

The term reincarnation means rebirth of the soul in another body. Hindus/Buddhists believe that (pls correct me if I'm wrong)  that reincarnation is repeated numerous times till reaching perfection.

Yes ... that's about it.
And your example itself shows Reincarnation is not speculation but a better working model.

When a seed is planted, after the blossoming of the plant, new seeds come forth and the same process repeats itself time and time again. The seed is always one of the same species, yet it is never the same seed which was originally planted. What is more, each seed is also indirectly the source of innumerable other seeds. Therefore, one could not call this process the reincarnation of an individual seed.

You have remember one things ... no matter how many seeds a plant produced, the species of a tree which the seed come from will not change, NOR does the seed change to another plant seed OR the condition for its growth changes. Only thing that changes is the number of seeds produced.

You are your father's son ... you are an individual on your own and carries the genetic of your father (and mother), YET your life is your own to decide. If your father is a Imam, that doesn't mean you will become an imam as well. If your father is a crook, that doesn't mean you will become a crook as well.

It is true that each person is an indivual by himself and if you think reincarnation means reviving the dead body, then you are sadly mistaken. The individuality of a person itself is a proof that a soul exists within a person. And that Soul is what is goes from one life to another.

Is one a machine or an engineer? If one is a machine, one then lingers on for ever in mechanical irresponsibility. If one is an engineer, one becomes the master of one's destiny, in which case one is responsible for any deeds that might weigh as heavy burdens on one's conscience.

Sorry ... BOTH are wrong.
A machine only runs as longs as its parts runs properly. And ALL machines (including biological "machines") do not run properly over a long period of time due to wear and tear and NEEDS someone to maintenance them.

An Engineer can only become a master of what he does IF he has proper tools to work with. What is the use of an Engineer with a monkey wrench if he is placed in a Nuclear power plant which was about to meltdown? He MAY have the knowledge and what to do with such situation BUT without the proper tool, he will NOT master the situation.
Even IF he has the proper tools, the Engineer most likely needs OTHER engineers to accomplish something. No one can exist by himself in the real world.

So a Machine with a wear and tear problem (due to time) and an Engineer without proper tools or proper help WILL NOT be masters of their own Fate.

Heaven and hell are the worlds of one's own conscience, and that which survives in the hereafter are those same worlds which we ourselves have created within ourselves here on this dense earth, where the laws of cause and effect are solid reality.

EXACTLY!
Heaven and Hell is created by our own Consciousness. Can a person create a situation which lasts FOREVER? Is he capable of such feat?

IF he is capable of such feat, then he is equal to God who created the World which lasted for the last few billion years. True?
Could such world be an endless loop of events from one point to another? IF so, then DEATH exists EVEN in Heaven and Hell thus Death is an Illusion as well.

IF he is unable to create such feat (Heaven and Hell) and in some point in time, his consciousness seeks something other that such illusions, where shall it be?

Sephiroth

Lets take this discussion to my own thread. Don't want to make Truth.8 feel alienated in this own thread (which I notice I attend to do often with people's thread ).

http://forum.cari.com.my/viewthread.php?tid=67359