Ha ha , this is about the weakest argument so far against the preservation of the Quran.
The youtube video tried to portray Prof Gerd Puin to be the scholarly source but he did not say anything about the non preservation of the Quran but commenting on the Hijazi Script , the written arabic of that time without vowels and dicritical marks which is well known. Prof Puin himself admitted that there is no change to the Quran per his fax to Al Akwa in Prof Al Azami's book 'The History of the Quranic text'. The fax written in arabic and translation as follows :
The important thing, thank God, is that these Yemeni Qur’ānic fragments do not differ from those found in the museums and libraries elsewhere, with the exception of details that do not touch the Qur’ān itself, but are rather differences in the way words are spelled. This phenomenon is well-known, even in the Qur’ān published in Cairo in which is written:
Ibrhīm (ابرهيم) next to Ibrhm (ابرهم)
Qurān (قران) next to Qrn (قرن)
Sīmāhum (سيماهم) next to Sīmhum (سيمهم) etc.
In the oldest Yemeni Qur’ānic fragments, for example, the phenomenon of not writing the vowel alif is rather common.
You can request a copy of Prof Puin's original fax from Prof Azami son Aqil Azami.
Then the video talked about the overwriting of the manuscripts as the following example : (the text in the foreground is termed as 'scriptio superior' and the text on the background is termed as 'scriptio inferior').
Prof Puin himself already admitted that there was no change. The manuscript was later studied by Prof Sadeghi and Prof Bergmann :
According to Sadeghi and Bergmann, the results indicated that the parchment had a 68% (1σ) probability of belonging to the period between 614 CE to 656 CE. It had a 95% (2σ) probability of belonging to the period between 578 CE and 669 CE. The carbon dating was applicable to the scriptio inferior text.[42] The date which the scriptio superior text was written could be the first or second half of the 7th century or even the early 8th century (more generally the 1st century hijra). Sadeghi then pointed out, “For historical reasons, however, what is of greater interest is the probability that the parchment is older than a certain date. … The probability that the parchment is older than AD 646 is 75.1 %, or a three-to-one likelihood. It is highly probable therefore, that the Ṣanʿāʾ I manuscript was produced no more than 15 years after the death of the Prophet Muhammad.”[43] He concluded that the scriptio inferior text belonged to the period of the companions of Prophet Muhammad, whilst the scriptio superior text belonged to the ʿUthmānic tradition, and using stemmatics, the ʿUthmānic tradition was shown to give the most accurate reproduction of the Prophetic prototype.
The works by Prof Sadghi and Prof Bergmann confirmed that the San'a Manuscripts were before the Uthman compilation of the Quran (Caliph Uthman(ra) - 'Mushaf Uthman'). Together with Prof Puin's works , Orientalists scholarship has confirmed of the pristine preservation of the Quran. In simple words , the Quran have not been changed as we now have the physical proof of Quran Manuscripts before Caliph Uthman(ra) standardization works.
New findings of the qur'anic text fragments , moreover can be adduced to affirm rather than call into question the traditional picture of the Qur'an as an early fixed text composed of the suras we have. Nor have scholars trying to deconstruct that image through linguistic arguments succeeded in seriously discrediting the genuineness of the Qur'an as we know it.
Ha ha , I got you again. Orientalist scholarship has moved on. Currently , non muslim scholars (orientalists) are now in admission that the Quran has been preserved in a pristine manner.
Poor you. Where are the different versions of the Quran? In your wet dreams perhaps ..... ha ha
Truth.8 posted on 22-8-2013 11:56 AM
thats my point....example:
if I write:
The words of GOD is truth and leads way of life....
than the ink fade
The words of GOD ...........
so??
Ha ha , your response is really funny and lack intelligence.
You mean if the ink has faded , it means that it is not the word of God? Why don't you just open up any page of your bible and it leave under the sun and rain for a month. Check if the ink has faded.
sam1528 posted on 22-8-2013 12:50 PM
Ha ha , your response is really funny and lack intelligence.
You mean if the ink has faded , it ...
of course lah...why need to keep a book when the ink already faded and mostly probably it was added by corrupt hand to add the missing words from ink fading...
does it logic??? no wonder ottoman burn out all this books and we not even sure the quran you holding is original or fake....
Truth.8 posted on 22-8-2013 06:46 PM
of course lah...why need to keep a book when the ink already faded and mostly probably it was add the missing words from ink fading...
does it logic??? no wonder ottoman burn out all this books and we not even sure the quran you holding is original or fake....
You are already confused. Your video , your post#1 , talks about the San'a MSS in which Prof Puin commented about the Hijazi script in addition of him stating that there is no difference or no change between the MSS when compared to the present day 'mushaf'.
Prof Sadghi and Prof Bergmann confirm via carbon dating that the said MSS (San'a MSS) dated to be before Caliph Uthman(ra) standardization works. Therefore we now have proof or physical proof for the preservation of the Quran as the San'a MSS has been confirmed to be identical to the present day Quran.
There were no books burnt by Caliph Uthman(ra). The ones burnt were personal and incomplete copies or folios. BTW , in the Islamic tradition , burning is the way to dispose of old , non readable 'mushafs' and the ones we decide to do away with. We don't throw these into the garbage bin like you Christians of your old , non readable bibles and the ones you decide to do away with. It is disrespectful.
By the way Uthman or Caliph Uthman(ra) is not Ottoman. Ottoman was an empire. This is about the umpteenth time you made such blunder. Are you just too old to learn?
Truth.8 posted on 26-8-2013 03:25 PM
the fact remaind that ink is missing so the quran right can be doubt
Ha ha , the story of your life. Ignorant as usual. Your argument is an argument from ignorance.
If you had read the link I provided and understood it , you won't be exposing such ignorance. The photo I provided is the palimset under UV light.
The principle of ultraviolet photography to detect under–writings and forgeries in the manuscripts and documents is quite simple. The ink used in writing early documents was iron–gallotannate type or simply "iron-gall". Iron-gall inks absorb long–wave ultraviolet radiation strongly without generation of fluorescence, so the legibility of faded, bleached or erased parts of handwriting can be improved considerably. On the other hand, the parchment exhibits a weak fluorescence under long-wave ultraviolet light. Traces of iron compounds on the parchment quench this fluorescence, and the areas formerly carrying ink (i.e., scriptio inferior) appear dark against a lighter background as observed in the above figure. Compare the above figure with images of palimpsests (e.g., Sotheby's 1992, recto) to see the improvement of contrast of the faded writing observed in ultraviolet photography as opposed to what is seen in the ordinary colour photography.
Whether or not the ink has faded , technology has progressed that this is now a non issue.
Truth.8 posted on 27-8-2013 02:45 PM
in the youtube it did not mention abt uv rather the ink faded
The youtube video is made by a 2 bit apologist like you. The video made reference to the San'a manuscripts.
The San'a MSS have been studied by experts the world over and the conclusion is that there is no change in the Quran. That is why I don't understand why you claim that the Quran has been changed by asking to view the video whereas everyone in academia knows about the preservation of the Quran via the San'a manuscripts.
You are exposing your lack of knowledge in this issue.
Post time 20-8-2013 12:35 PM
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