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Author: Truth.8

Aku nak tanya pada muslim..

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Post time 15-4-2014 09:27 AM | Show all posts
Truth.8 posted on 15-4-2014 12:51 AM
you falied again

The Arabic word for CHEST, GAYB is in the verse (24:31), but the Arabic words for HEAD, (RAAS) or HAIR, (SHAAR) are NOT in the verse. The commandment in the verse is clear - COVER YOUR CHEST OR BOSOMS, but also the fabrication of the scholars and most of the translators is clear by claiming- cover your head or hair.  

The failure is in your part for not understanding the issue. This again expose your lack of intelligence in this whole issue.

Note that we are talking about headcover not head (raas) nor hair (shar). You cannot even understand what you read. The problem with you is that you read what you want the verse to mean. The said verse from your post #58
And  tell  the  believing  women  to  reduce  [some]  of  their  vision  and  guard  their  private parts  and  not  expose  their  adornment  except  that  which  [necessarily]  appears  thereof and  to wrap  [a  portion  of]  their  headcovers  over  their  chests  and  not  expose  their adornment  except  to  their  husbands,  their  fathers,  their  husbands'  fathers,  their  sons, their  husbands'  sons,  their  brothers,  their  brothers'  sons,  their  sisters'  sons,  their women,  that  which  their  right  hands  possess,  or  those  male  attendants  having  no physical  desire,  or  children  who  are  not  yet  aware  of  the  private  aspects  of  women. And  let  them  not  stamp  their  feet  to  make  known  what  they  conceal  of  their adornment.  And  turn  to Allah in  repentance,  all  of  you,  O  believers,  that  you  might succeed.

The said verse stated that to cover the chest with the headcover meaning that the headcover covers from the head to the chest. How in the world do you understand the verse to state cover only the chest? Can you read and understand english?

You might want to get yourself an education.

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 Author| Post time 15-4-2014 09:51 AM | Show all posts
sam1528 posted on 15-4-2014 09:27 AM
The failure is in your part for not understanding the issue. This again expose your lack of intell ...

there you go  again with your igorance fool. some muslims studies quran for almost 15 years do admit that the covering of head is not mention in the quran.

I can posted numberous but you cowdung still will think otherwise...the issue of covering head is not part of God commandements but from a cultural /or traditional....u understand or not?

      Regarding Head cover in Islam?  

      I have studied islam since 16 but i was always told headcovering is compulsory but I went back to quran and to my surprise almost all the translation headcovers are not talked about but rather the covering of bosoms (which lies between chest and breast). some new translation has manipulated the verse by adding bracketed addition of head covering. What it prescribes is modest form of dressing, it never says you have to wear a burqa and cover complete face and head. Though if people want to go extra mile of covering their head thats their choice but why make something obligatory when its not mentioned?  

Update 1:  Its sad people have lost their traditional clothing and made everything appear arab so people think must wear arab clothing to be a proper muslim which is wrong imo. quran asks for both men and women to dress modestly, if head-covering was obligatory it would mentioned directly. From understanding is its optional not a must.


Update 2:  it says nothing to cover your head, show me a verse without a bracket interpretation where it makes it obligatory that one should cover their heads? almost all the previous translation never translated the covering of the head, it says over bosoms which are between the breast and chest, the head covering being obligatory is invention, also in hadith not sure but it does not obligate women to wear head covering, its optional or during sala but having to put it where ever you go is not mentioned in the quran. no direct mention.   
          Update 3:  I read all your verses and all of them are bracketed, which means the word of a man. When allah says not to display the adornment, it means not to displays the sexual parts, and be dressed in modest manner, also some of the cloak you mentioned was during the time when muslim women were in danger, so they wore the cloak for protection since arabs already wore this.   
          Update 4:  scholars differ in opinion so we can't blindly say which is which, but i'm sure if head covering was compulsory then surely allah would of clearly mentioned it, rather then leaving us to guess. My point is the head covering might be during sala than making it compulsory to wear daily life, its that misconception makes muslims backward is we make things compulsory whats  not mentioned.   
          Update 5:  The hadeeth quotation you mentioned are baracketted, some of them relates to the climate of arabia, the head covering and face covering is optional and not compulsory, one cannot punish a women if she choses not to wear the headcovering.   


The problem is that head covering is an Arab cultural practice.

And Islam was invented by Uthman as religion similar to Judaism.....only making the Arabs God's chosen people. This is why:

1) Islam originally did not accept non-Arab converts;
2) In Islam, Allah's language is pure Arabic;
3) Muslims are encouraged to take Arabic names;
4) Arab cultural traditions are considered of divine origin;
5) Arabic versions of the Koran are considered the only correct versions - even though Arabic isn't the original language of the Koran.


PS - In the original Aramaic version of the Koran, the sura you mention doesn't tell women to cover their heads and faces....AND it doesn't tell them to cover their bosoms either...it simply tells them to be chaste.  

Finally, someone speaking some sense! The burkah especially is dangerous… Dangerous for security and also dangerous for women’s health if not worn responsibly (lack of sunlight to the skin causes severe vitamin D deficiency. Hair roots become weak because no ventilation and etc...Why would God ask a human being to do something which is bad for them?

link :https://malaysia.answers.yahoo.c ... 130710063515AABcPWg


Last edited by Truth.8 on 15-4-2014 10:07 AM

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 Author| Post time 15-4-2014 10:14 AM | Show all posts
The Dress Code for Women in the Quran

Introduction:

Before presenting the Quranic rules for women's dress, it is essential to be reminded of the following:

1- The Quran is the only source of law that is authorised by God (6:114).

2- The Quran is complete and fully detailed (6:38, 6:114, 6:89 and 12:111).

3- God calls on His true believers to make sure not to fall in the trap of idol worship by following the words of the scholars instead of the words of God (9:31).

4- God calls those who prohibit what He did not prohibit, aggressors, liars and idol worshippers (5:87, 6:140, 7:32, 10:59).

The command to follow the Quran alone is given very clearly in the Quran, see: Dozen Reasons

Quranic guidelines for women's dress

First Rule : The Best Garment

"O children of Adam, We have brought down to you garments to cover your private parts, as well as for adornment, yet the garment of reverence is the best. These are some of God's signs, perhaps they will remember." 7:26
link : https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/3096125/all
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Post time 15-4-2014 12:14 PM | Show all posts
Truth.8 posted on 15-4-2014 09:51 AM
there you go  again with your igorance fool. some muslims studies quran for almost 15 years do adm ...

Ha ha , the one who is making a fool of himself is just you and only you. Now you refer to a yahoo forum in which you quote a person who has been studying Islam for 15 years? BTW the person cannot even speak , read and understand arabic because he has to rely on translation.

Per the same link , scroll to the 5th answer :
Its is in the Quran. The Quran mentions "jalaabeeebihinna' which is jilbaab which means headscarf. So you are wrong. There a many hadiths and verses of the Quran concerning hijab. Here are a few:

.....
Again I am proven right as the arabic word means headcovering which extend to the breast.

Its high time you get an education.

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Post time 15-4-2014 12:29 PM | Show all posts
Truth.8 posted on 15-4-2014 10:14 AM
The Dress Code for Women in the Quran

Introduction:

Another red herring from you. I quoted Quran24:31 and you did even address such verse.

The meaning of the word khimar is 'Top Cover'. This mean that the covering starts from the top and extend downwards
The Arabic word khimar means “top-cover” and it also applies to many things besides women’s head covers. For example, it applies to the top covering a pot or jar, to any head cover worn by people even men. Notably, that’s where liquor and narcotics got their Arabic name khamr because they “cover” the reasoning when a person is intoxicated.

This can further be verified via Lane Lexicon (pg 809) :

Can be doubled confirm by the Dictionary and Glossary of the Koran by John Penrice (Adam Publishers and Distributors) , pg 45



In all cases the word 'bikhumurihinna' (transliteration) is rendered 'Head Covering' in the said verse.

The verse in question per your post #58
And  tell  the  believing  women  to  reduce  [some]  of  their  vision  and  guard  their  private parts  and  not  expose  their  adornment  except  that  which  [necessarily]  appears  thereof and  to  wrap  [a  portion  of]  their  headcovers  over  their  chests  and  not  expose  their adornment  except  to  their  husbands,  their  fathers,  their  husbands'  fathers,  their  sons, their  husbands'  sons,  their  brothers,  their  brothers'  sons,  their  sisters'  sons,  their women,  that  which  their  right  hands  possess,  or  those  male  attendants  having  no physical  desire,  or  children  who  are  not  yet  aware  of  the  private  aspects  of  women. And  let  them  not  stamp  their  feet  to  make  known  what  they  conceal  of  their adornment.  And  turn  to Allah in  repentance,  all  of  you,  O  believers,  that  you  might succeed.

Your own reference state of headcover.

Why are you going round and round chasing your own backside? Could it be that you are not educated enough to understand such simple explanation?


Last edited by sam1528 on 15-4-2014 12:30 PM

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 Author| Post time 15-4-2014 01:49 PM | Show all posts
sam1528 posted on 15-4-2014 12:29 PM
Another red herring from you. I quoted Quran24:31 and you did even address such verse.

The mean ...

listen to what the muslim saying...not my word but many muslims around the global says covering head is not part of the quran

i will post more and more with regards to this issue



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 Author| Post time 15-4-2014 02:09 PM | Show all posts
Truth.8 posted on 15-4-2014 01:49 PM
listen to what the muslim saying...not my word but many muslims around the global says covering he ...

                                "Among them is a group who distort the Book with                 their tongues so that you think it is from the Book when it is not from                 the Book. They say, 'it is from Allah', but it is not from Allah. They                 tell a lie against Allah and they know it." (Qur'an 3:78)
               
                Those people who publish                 books and writings on the Qur'an altering its core meanings with                 extra-Quranic sources must also                 be aware of Allah:
                                                        
"Woe                 to those who write the Book with their own hands then Say: "This is from                 Allah!", so that they can make a cheap gain! Woe to them for what their                 hands have written, and woe to them for what they gained." (Qur'an 2:79)                 
               
Verse 33:53    of the Glorious Qur'an, does not command the prophet's wives to wear niqab,       nor the ordinary believing women. Face veil / niqab does not feature in verse   33:53 at all. Furthermore, it is actually addressing the believing men,   not the wives of the prophet.
               
There is no teaching in the Qur'an for any women of the world to cover their  faces when outside. The human head is a miraculous act of creation and a distinctly different  part of the human body - and has been designed by Allah on both men and  women with the expectation that it remains exposed at all times. See Hijab & Niqab in the Qur'an                
                                                                                 

                                The Woman who Lost her Face
                                                                        
                                In May 2005, Isabelle Dinoire from France was attacked by her pet Labrador who gnawed away her face when she fell unconscious. She woke up in a pool of blood.                                The damage to her face was so extensive that doctors ruled out routine face reconstruction and suggested a face transplant instead. Her nose, lips and chin were completely torn away.                                 
                                                               
                                                
                                                               
                                With such horrific injuries, Isabelle hid from the world. She describes her experience prior to her surgery in the following words:                                
                                                                        
                                "First time I went out [wearing face mask], in some ways, I was happy to go out. But in other ways, I was frightened to leave the hospital. At the start, I cried every time I went out.                                Some people don't say anything out of the ordinary. They say, 'hello', they talk. Other people look and shrink back. In the shops, some people                                even hide out of the way. No body could tell how long its going to take [to find a face donor]. I need to walk                                around the hospital. When I hear the Firemen and the Ambulences, each time I think its going to be someone who is going to die. And may be I                                 could have a face. Its a hard thing to say."
                                                               
                                Isabelle would do anything to have her old intact face back, which Allah had created for her to walk outside with a pleasant look.                                She now has an appreciation of the purpose of her original face which she can never get back.                                Allah's bounty on all means He did not give such a test upon you, but used her as a means for those who seek wisdom. Those who are wise are able to place themselves                                in the shoes of someone else and learn from the wisdom they might gain without having to go through the same experience. The face you                                have is designed to cover the hideous underwork just beneath it. For one to say that you must cover the face designed by Allah, without which you would have to hide from the world is an indication of a lack of                                 appreciation of Allah and a lack of true wisdom.                                
                                                                                                "Have we not made for him two eyes? A tongue and two lips? And we showed the way to two paths. Yet, he has not embarked upon the steep path. What will explain to you what the                                steep path is? It is to free a slave. To feed people in days of shortage. To bring the orphans near as well as the very poor.                                Only then he would become one of the believers, who exhorts people to the truth and to kindness. These are the companions of the right". (Qur'an 90:8-
Read here:   http://www.quranicpath.com/finerpoints/33_53_niqab.html

                Where "Children of Adam"                 includes both men and women. This humanly pleasantness in everyone Allah speaks of                 is something for us to thank Allah by and appreciate in all human beings,                 both men and women.
                                                
                Over the centuries, in the                 name of Islam, some of the most concealed ways of dressing has been                 suggested for 'Muslim' women by clergy, who consist mostly of men.                 According to them, the "best" way of dressing for a woman involves, in                 their chosen words, to appear as a black "crow", concealing every part of her                 including the face, eyes, hands and feet in black drape. In this way,                 even                 the simplest shape or form of a human being's appearance is taken away                 from a woman and                 she is reduced to a 'mere shadow'.
                                
               
               
                Though different levels of dressing for women was                 suggested, this is said to be the 'best level' according to them.                 They also teach that the                 eyes also be covered with the veil! visible yet in this picture!



                Understanding the way                 Allah created the Human:
                                                
                The human body is a                 miraculous act of creation by Allah. Every function of the                 body is placed through superior wisdom. The human body has five primary                 senses to interact with the world. These are:
                                
                1) Vision            2) Hearing            3) Smell                            4) Taste           5) Touch           
                                
                Each of these senses have                 unique sensing devices that are especially designed to accomplish their                 respective sensing functions. Sense of touch is done by the skin on                 every part of our bodies. The sensors for vision, hearing, smell and taste are                 all concentrated on one particular place, the human head.                This is for an important reason. The reason being solely the fact that                 the head is intended by Allah to be exposed to the environment.
                 
                                
               
                                
                All organs that requires to be fully exposed to                 the environment are strategically placed on the head so that it can work at its best                 performance without hindrance.
               
                In the creation of the human, Allah                 intended the human head to be completely unobstructed in order for all                 the systems to function optimally. This is how:
                                
                The Eyes
                                
                Light rays from                 reflecting scenery are to fall on the eye through an unobstructed passage                 in order to perceive the true intensity and the colour of the scenery.                 A barrier would block light. This is an important reason why the eyes are on the head, since the head                 is expected to be                 left uncovered.
                                
                Mouth & Nose -                 Breathing
                                
                The exhaled breath contains a relative humidity of 100% -                 that is, it is highly moisture rich. This moisture as well as heat has                 to diffuse into the surrounding environment and not get trapped, if it                 does, then heat and moisture would cause discomfort on the skin.                 This is a reason why nose and mouth are again placed by Allah on the                 head, so that an unobstructed passage is maintained with the                 environment, allowing diffusion of heat                 and moisture optimally.
                                
                The Ears
               
               
read more here :  http://www.quranicpath.com/misconceptions/hijab_niqab.html


                                                                                                                                                                                                           


Last edited by Truth.8 on 15-4-2014 03:00 PM

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 Author| Post time 15-4-2014 03:05 PM | Show all posts
Truth.8 posted on 15-4-2014 02:09 PM
"Among them is a group who distort the Book with                 t ...

                Understanding the                 Quranic Verses
                       
                First of                 all, it must be understood on part of the thinking reader that the true                 religion of Allah is in full harmony with Allah's created mechanisms                 and intentions in                 nature.
               
               
                               
                In order for something to be a Quranic commandment, the                 command has to be in harmony with the designed functions of the                 Creator's design.
                               
                Therefore, in order for a dress to be a command of Allah,                 the expected senses that require exposure at all times cannot be                 concealed. Note that they do not stop functioning outdoors, they are in                 continuous use. Therefore, the expectation that the head is a part of                 the body that remains always exposed in the blue-print or master-plan of                 Allah, is valid for all times of the day (indoor or outdoor).
                               
                Does the Qur'an command the covering of hair for women ("Hijab")?
                               
                The word "hijab" is never used in the Qur'an in the                 context of women's dress. This word is used only in its                 general meaning of "barrier" in other contexts (eg. 17:45), but never in women's dress or                 modesty. Yet it has developed completely unique applications among the                 majority. There is no use of the word 'hijab' in terms of women's dress                 in the Qur'an.
                               
                One        part of a verse of the Qur'an has been attempted to be shown to command the covering                 of hair. This is the 31st verse of Surah An-Nur quoted as follows:
                               
                وَقُلْ                 لِلْمُؤْمِنَاتِ يَغْضُضْنَ مِنْ أَبْصَارِهِنَّ وَيَحْفَظْنَ فُرُوجَهُنَّ                 وَلا يُبْدِينَ زِينَتَهُنَّ إِلا مَا ظَهَرَ مِنْهَا وَلْيَضْرِبْنَ                 بِخُمُرِهِنَّ عَلَى جُيُوبِهِنَّ
(Qur'an 24:31)
                               
                "Tell the believing women to lower their                 gaze and guard their private parts, and that they shall not flaunt their                 beauty except for what appears (naturally) from it, and let them put forth their covers                 over their cleavage." (Qur'an 24:31)
                               
                The portion used to mean cover the hair                 is the underlined portion above (وَلْيَضْرِبْنَ                 بِخُمُرِهِنَّ عَلَى جُيُوبِهِن َّ ). It should be understood that the ordainment,                 or the commandment here is for a believing woman to cover her cleavage.                 It is not commanding her to cover her hair. The word "hair" does not                 appear in the Arabic. The Arabic word                 translated as "covers" for the Arabic word                خُمُرْ                / 'khumur' (plural of 'khimar'), should be translated with due regards to several                 factors. These include:
                               
                (1) The logical understanding on the nature in which Allah created                 the human head (ears need unobstructed passage for optimal performance,                 and hair on head is part of                 "natural" human pleasantness that we cannot do without {more later}).
               
                (2) The Arabic root for the word, shares meanings with more                 general "covering" or "concealment" and not just                 headscarf.
                               
                (3) The immediate context within the                 verse, which is ordering the                 covering of the cleavage only (عَلَى جُيُوبِهِنّ), with no mention of hair (indicating the                 ordainment is not in the type of apparatus used, but in the covering of low                 neck-line). Even if it means 'headscarves' worn at the time, the command                 is not in the type of clothing used to cover the cleavage                 (headscarf), but to cover the cleavage. The usage of the word is                 determined by the readily available method at that instance, variable by                 other means in other parts of the world, or by any means such as a                 higher neck dress.  
                               
                (4) It can be observed that men tend to cover all their chest and women reduce their                 neck-line in society in order to show-off feminine grace. Therefore, in                 order to tackle the common habit, a                 commandment to cover the cleavage area is a strong logical                 reason for the verse than the hair.
                               
                Therefore, it makes perfect sense to                 conclude that the intention of "وَلْيَضْرِبْنَ                 بِخُمُرِهِنَّ عَلَى جُيُوبِهِن َّ                 / and let them put forth their covers                 over their cleavage" is to order believing women to ensure the                 cleavage area is                 covered and not the hair.
                               
               
                               
The Quranic requirement for 'khimar' requires a believer to                 wear an adequately high neckline dress (etc.) according to her conscience.               

more : http://www.quranicpath.com/misconceptions/hijab_niqab.html

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 Author| Post time 15-4-2014 03:33 PM | Show all posts
Truth.8 posted on 15-4-2014 03:05 PM
Understanding the                 Quranic Verses                                        First of                 all, it must be understood on part of the thin ...

                                       
                                                Hair is part of basic human aesthetics. It constitutes the minimum look of a human being that allows people to function in society.                 In addition however, believing women take pride in an                 'additional' artistic design of Allah in which they have been created
(See                 Women & Beauty - A Secret Revealed in the Qur'an).


and compare this


Nothing....empty ....is this what Creator need women in this earth??

Last edited by Truth.8 on 15-4-2014 03:34 PM

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Post time 15-4-2014 05:37 PM | Show all posts
Truth.8 posted on 15-4-2014 01:49 PM
listen to what the muslim saying...not my word but many muslims around the global says covering head is not part of the quran

i will post more and more with regards to this issue
Ha ha , you are so confused. The person in the video is so confused.

This is why I stated that to argue on the Quran , you need to have a bit of arabic knowledge. At this moment you have no knowledge in arabic and even that your english is problematic. If you don't know , refer to the scholars or authoritative sources. Do not refer to layman.

Why are you still arguing on 'Hijab' being 'head cover'? 'Hijab' in Quranic terms mean screen or conceal. The term has been loosely used to refer to 'head cover' which is wrong but society accept it and it has now become a norm. As an example , Pampers is a brand name for disposable diaper. However our society often refer to disposable daipers being Pampers. It is the dialect of certain society. We have to understand such from the collective society usage.

Of course hijab does not mean headcovering. Where do you or the person in the video get this idea from? A naked women who stand in front of a screen while talking to a non mahram is in hijab. This mean she has concealed herself from him. Take the screen away and she has to put on clothing that conceal herself from the non mahram.

We are arguing about 'head covering' which is part of clothing that conceal oneself or to be in 'Hijab'. Head covering has been explicitly stated in Quran24:31 , the word


transliteration - bikhumurihinna

means 'their head covers'

This has been confirmed by authoritative sources of Quranic translations like Lane Lexicon and Dictionary and Glossary of the Koran.

In fact a contemporary fatwa by Dr Yusuf Qaradawi (vol1 , pg 453-455) state of such
“One of the great fitnas (trials) and intellectual conspiracies that has been introduced into the Muslim world is the alteration of matters of certainty to matters of doubt and debate.” He also states that all of the scholars throughout history from various groups such as the Sufis, the Dhahiris (the Literalists), the fuqahaa’ (jurists), and the scholars of hadith unanimously agree that it is fard for the believing woman to cover her hair.

All the scholars from all the Schools of Thought have been unanimous on this issue. All I have from you are are just arguments from lay people who don't even understand arabic and arguing on the issue of 'no hair mention'. Dey tambi , when 'head cover' is mentioned , one should be intelligent enough to understand that the hair is involved because the majority of the female population have hair on their head.

This is where intelligence is needed. Too bad you don't have any.

Last edited by sam1528 on 15-4-2014 05:39 PM

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 Author| Post time 15-4-2014 06:02 PM | Show all posts
sam1528 posted on 15-4-2014 05:37 PM
Ha ha , you are so confused. The person in the video is so confused.

This is why I stated that to ...

I can provide fact and truth according to scholar , individual  and etc who all born muslims but your nuts head or donkey brain consider sturborn as mule....

CONCLUSION:

God, the Most Merciful, gave us three basic rules for the Dress Code for Women in Islam (Submission),

(1) The BEST garment is the garment of righteousness.
(2) Whenever you dress , cover your chest (bosoms).
(3) Lengthen your garment.

While  these three BASIC rules may not sound enough for those who do not trust  God, the TRUE believers know that God is ENOUGH. God could have given  us more details to the point of having graphs, designs and color rules,  but He , the Most Merciful, wants to give us exactly these very basic  rules and leave the rest for us. After these three basic rules every  woman is more aware of her circumstances and can adjust her dress for  her situation. Any addition to these basic Quranic rules is an attempt  to correct God or improve on His merciful design.

We have no  obligation to follow but God's rules. Innovations and fabrications that  added thousands of rules to the women dress code are nothing but  idol-worship and should be refused.
link:  http://www.sistersinislam.org.my/news.php?item.604.10


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Post time 15-4-2014 06:26 PM | Show all posts
Truth.8 posted on 15-4-2014 06:02 PM
I can provide fact and truth according to scholar , individual  and etc who all born muslims but your nuts head or donkey brain consider sturborn as mule....

You have just confirm yourself to be of very low intelligence. In fact I don't think you know what scholar means. Ha ha , 'Sisters in Islam' are scholars? You must be out of your mind.

Now your proof of what a scholar stand on head covering is an article copied pasted from 'Sisters in Islam' which is taken from 'freeminds.org'. Firstly the organization of 'Sisters in Islam' is just a NGO , they are not scholars. This copy paste has been refuted by Bro Bassam Zawadi with regards to their writings :
In order to attempt to refute my twelfth argument...



Surah 24, verse 31 says "And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof" What exactly is this part that "appears thereof"?



The author throws off red herrings first.



He argues that Hijab is not a part of Islam and one argument he gave for this is that it was practiced by the Jews and Christians before Islam.



It never crossed the mind of the author that perhaps the institution of Hijab was a law set by God before the coming of Muhammad peace be upon him and that this law (just like the prohibition of alcohol) continued to persist in Islam.





The author then says...



    Those blessed by God can see that the use of the word "Khimaar" in this verse is not for "Hijab" or for head cover.

How hilarious. Basically according to this author, if someone understands the Qur'an the way he does then that means that the person is blessed and if he doesn't then he is cursed by God.



WHAT OBJECTIVE STANDARD IS THE AUTHOR USING TO INTERPRET THE QUR'AN? That is the question he needs to answer.



The weakness of the author's position is clearly evident. See his ridiculous answer...



    God knows that we will be living in different communities, times and cultures, so the minor details of the dress code are left for the people of every community to decide for themselves. Modesty for a woman who lives in New York may not be accepted by a woman who lives in Cairo. Modesty of a woman who lives in Cairo may not be accepted by a woman who lives in Saudi Arabia. Modesty of a woman who lives in Jeddah may not be accepted by a woman who lives in a desert oasis in the same country. This difference in the way we perceive modesty is well-known to God. He created us, and He put NO hardship on us in this great religion. He left it to us to decide what modesty would be.



The stupidity of the author's response baffles me. How could the author utter such stupidity? Is it because he knows the weakness of his position? He is basically stating that a woman's modesty differs from place to place. I know that, this is the whole argument in the first place. That is why we need an objective standard to tell us what modesty truly is.

The Qur'an according to the author only tells the woman to cover her bosom (which could possibly mean that she can show her back, belly, legs and arms) and thus the author suggests that the rest of the details are left up to the woman.

Let's imagine the following scenario. A woman from New York who is used to wearing a miniskirt and showing parts of her back travels to Saudi Arabia where men view this dress code as immoral. What happens? Disunity happens. Corruption happens for most men who become sexually tempted by seeing the woman's bare arms, back, belly and legs exposed in front of them. How on earth can we tell people that Islam teaches women to dress modestly in this case?

Notice the verse in the Qur'an that states:

           

    Surah 33:59

    O Prophet! Tell your wives, your daughters, and the wives of the believers that they shall lengthen their garments. Thus, they will be recognized and avoid being insulted. God is Forgiver, Most Merciful."



Notice, that the dress code that the women are supposed to wear permits them to be recognized and stand out. How can that happen when we don't have a dress code unique for women? How can you recognize a Muslim woman then?





The author then says:



    God, the Most Merciful, gave us three basic rules for the Dress Code for Women in Islam.

    01). The best garment is the criterion of righteousness.

    02). Whenever you dress, cover your chest (bosoms).

    03). Lengthen your garment.





So basically the woman can show her back, belly, arms and most of her legs?





The author contradicts his position and then says...



    WHAT BODY PARTS CAN WOMEN SHOW IN PUBLIC?

    Face, hands and forearms, heads, feet and ankles.

    5:6 O You who have chosen to be graced with belief! When you congregate for Salat, wash your faces and your forearms, hands to the elbows. Lightly rub your heads and your feet to the ankles."

    Ibn Umar said that during the times of Rasulullah (S) men and women used to do Wudhu together." (Bukhari published by Madina Publishing Company, Karachi, 1982, Printer Hamid & Co, vol 1, pg 169 Kitabil Wudhu. The translator is "Maulana" Abdul Hakim Khan Shahjahan Puri)

    Source: http://www.ourbeacon.com/truehistory.pdf



The hypocrisy and double standards of the author are quite amazing. He would selectively cite hadith that he likes. Plus his saying that only Face, hands and forearms, heads, feet and ankles contradicts his first position...





    God, the Most Merciful, gave us three basic rules for the Dress Code for Women in Islam.

    01). The best garment is the criterion of righteousness.

    02). Whenever you dress, cover your chest (bosoms).

    03). Lengthen your garment.



For the first position indicates that a woman can also show her back, legs and belly while the second position doesn't. So which one is it?

My argument still stands. The Quran ALONE by itself in the sense the Quranites understand does not make clear what is modest and what is immodest for a woman to wear. The Qur'an says "except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof". This statement is clarified by the Prophet (peace be upon him) and not by the Qur'an alone. The Quranite when clearly trapped resorts to uttering stupidity as we have seen above. The weakness of the Quranite position should be clear to the reader by now.

My argument to you still stand. Can you now show any authoritative source(s) that state of the word


to be other than 'head covering'? Sisters in Islam is not an authoritative source. None of them are scholars.

You can't can you? This shows the weakness of your position. In addition , you are not intelligent enough to recognize a scholar and their works.


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 Author| Post time 15-4-2014 10:28 PM | Show all posts
Truth.8 posted on 15-4-2014 06:02 PM
I can provide fact and truth according to scholar , individual  and etc who all born muslims but y ...

ibnur you deduct my credit but you never deduct muslims credit for calling names and etc...
good, in eartly life you do all  the crap work...in judgment day  u face your wrath or even now, you will face wrath..

do i  care my credit deduct , not at all thats why the forum here becoming death when muslims run as moderator

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 Author| Post time 15-4-2014 10:30 PM | Show all posts
sam1528 posted on 15-4-2014 06:26 PM
You have just confirm yourself to be of very low intelligence. In fact I don't think you know what ...

not only sister islam but many source I have provided.  the head covering nothing but a cultural or traditional before islam and christian...
one  need not to cover the head but dress in modesty ....simple as that

What the Quran Says about Hijab or           Veil!                      
              07 Feb, 2009
                        We read in the Quran:
            
              “Say to the believing men that they should lower their gaze                 and guard their modesty: that will make for greater purity for                 them: and Allah is well acquainted with all that they do.” [Q                 24:30]
                              “And say to the believing women that they should lower their               gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their               beauty and ornaments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof;               that they should draw their veils over their bosoms except to               their husbands, their fathers, their husbands’ fathers, their               sons, their husbands’ sons, their brothers or their brothers’               sons, or their sisters’ sons, or their women, or the slaves whom               their right hands possess, or male servants free of physical               needs, or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex;               and that they should not strike their feet in order to draw               attention to their hidden ornaments. And O ye Believers! Turn ye               all together towards Allah, that ye may attain Bliss.” [Q 24:31]
              
            
            I understand that it was necessary for Allah to make such rules,             as, in His judgment, were necessary to regulate the uncivilized             social behavior of a people Muhammad and his companions were going             to rule once Allah’s mission to establish Islam in the Arabian             Peninsula was accomplished. But what about those rules through which             He had sought to instill a sense of purity and modesty in Muslim men             and women? Let us briefly go over those rules.
            
            Avoiding eye contact and covering sexual organs appropriately are             two of the ways through which, Allah believes, both Muslim men and             women can avoid commission of adultery or fornication among them. It             was this knowledge of human behavior that had prompted Allah to ask             both Muslim men and women to lower their gaze, when they find             themselves face to face with strangers. He prohibited women from             ‘displaying her figure or appear in undress except before their             husbands, near relatives who would be living in the same house, and             with whom a certain amount of negligee is permissible.’[1]             He has also asked them not to display their ornaments[2]             before anyone, but the men mentioned in the above verse, in order to             protect themselves from their lustful desire.
            
            Believing that what Allah had thought were the appropriate             measures for preventing Muslims from committing adultery or             fornication, we wonder why He asked only the women to cover their             bosoms and to refrain from displaying their beauty before none, but             their husbands and close relatives? Why He asked them to hide their             ornaments and also not to strike their feet in order not to avoid             drawing strange men’s attention to them? Why He wants women to draw             their veils over their bosoms, while requiring strange men not to             look up, and gaze at them?
            
                        Veil             worn by Muslim women is a highly sensitive and contentious issue.             The Western world does not understand why Muslim women should cover             themselves from head to toe, and continue to suffer discomfort,             among others, in humid and fetid climate. Muslims counter that             wearing of veil is not at all uncomfortable for their women and that             it is an obligation that Allah has imposed on them so that they may             be able to maintain their physical and spiritual purity. Many Muslim             women claim that covering their bodies with burqa liberates them,             and enhances their sense of safety. They also contend that when the             Western world does not find any problem with the Christian nuns             covering themselves up with veil, why it should feel concerned with             the Muslim women wearing the same attire!
            
            A complex issue, such as the wearing of veil by the Muslim women,             calls for a detailed discussion. I, therefore, wish to do exactly             the same here by relying on other statements of the Quran that are             connected with the subject of veil. But before doing that, I must             point out an important fact, it being: three different words have             been used in the Quran to describe what Muslim women need to do to             protect themselves from the prying eyes and assault of strange men.             These words are: “khimar,” “hijab” and “jilbab.”
            
            We find the word “khimar” in verse 24:31, quoted above. Here are             two other verses with the words “hijab” and “jilbab” in them:
The black color of the fabrics, used in making burqa then, helped             its wearer blend well with the darkness of night, thus enabling them             to evade would-be attackers. This color has since become almost             universal: today, if not all, almost all the burqas are made of             black cloth, worn mostly by suppressed Muslim women of the world.
            
            Headscarf became a part of Muslim women’s Islamic dress when             Spain and some other European territories fell into Muslim hands.             Worn by Christian Nuns in Europe, its adoption by Muslim             women was intended to make an equivalent religious statement of             their own. Its introduction amongst European Muslim women was also             necessitated, perhaps, by their refusal to wear bulky burqas, which             their sisters-in-faith used to wear elsewhere in the Muslim world.             Hence the headscarves are in extensive use mainly by the white             Muslim women today.
            
            The gist of my discussion on hijab (veil), khimar (a piece of             cloth) and jilbab (outer garment or burqa) is the following:
            
            Khimar is a piece of cloth Muslim women need to cover their             bosoms with, when they are inside their homes; hijab is a screen or             barrier[17],             behind which unrelated men should hide themselves while talking to             Muslim women. Muslim women can also hide themselves behind hijab, if             they want to avoid the gaze of men at them.[18]             Jilbab is a body-covering Muslim women are required to wear at home             and outside of it. That fact that, young Muslim women at home are             also required to shield their bodies from the eyes of the young men             of the house as well as of Allah with the help of a cloth, is also             evident from verse 24:60. In it, Allah has clearly stated: “Such             elderly women as are past the prospect of marriage; there is no             blame on them if they lay aside their outer garments,[19]             provided they make not a wanton display of their beauty:[20]             but it is best for them to be modest: and Allah is One Who sees and             knows all things.” The form of the jilbab (burqa) that is used by             Muslim women today to cover themselves from head to toe has no             sanction in the Quran.
            
            There is no provision in the Quran that requires Muslim women to             wear headscarf when they are outside of their homes. It is a             concept, which European Muslim women had borrowed from Christian             nuns. It is not Islamic; therefore, has no Islamic value or             importance.


read more here:  http://www.islam-watch.org/masghar/quran-on-hijab-or-veil.htm

Last edited by Truth.8 on 15-4-2014 10:40 PM

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Post time 15-4-2014 11:45 PM | Show all posts
Truth.8 posted on 15-4-2014 10:30 PM
not only sister islam but many source I have provided.  the head covering nothing but a cultural o ...

Now you are giving me an article from 'Islam Watch'by Mohammad Asghar? This guy is not a scholar and the site is a polemical site. In fact this is another person who is very confused , like you. Bit part of your copy paste :

Khimar is a piece of cloth Muslim women need to cover their             bosoms with, when they are inside their homes; hijab is a screen or             barrier[17],             behind which unrelated men should hide themselves while talking to             Muslim women. Muslim women can also hide themselves behind hijab, if             they want to avoid the gaze of men at them.[18]             Jilbab is a body-covering Muslim women are required to wear at home             and outside of it. That fact that, young Muslim women at home are             also required to shield their bodies from the eyes of the young men             of the house as well as of Allah with the help of a cloth, is also             evident from verse 24:60. In it, Allah has clearly stated: “Such             elderly women as are past the prospect of marriage; there is no             blame on them if they lay aside their outer garments,[19]             provided they make not a wanton display of their beauty:[20]             but it is best for them to be modest: and Allah is One Who sees and             knows all things.” The form of the jilbab (burqa) that is used by             Muslim women today to cover themselves from head to toe has no             sanction in the Quran.
            
            There is no provision in the Quran that requires Muslim women to             wear headscarf when they are outside of their homes. It is a             concept, which European Muslim women had borrowed from Christian             nuns. It is not Islamic; therefore, has no Islamic value or             importance.

This guy does not even know the meaning of 'Khimar' Again I am asking you. Can you provide authoritative sources that confirm 'khimar' does not mean head covering? You have none so far. Why are you arguing about 'khimar' while not even knowing its meaning?

Does it matter if the head covering by muslimah is an extension of what the Israelites and Christians? Haven't it crossed your mind that it is law that Allah implemented and it continued to persist with Islam. I have shown that wearing head covering is in the Old Testament.

My question to you for the 6th time :
Can you now show any authoritative source(s) that state of the word


to be other than 'head covering'?

Until now you have failed in all your argument. What you are doing is just copy paste without even understanding what you read. This is very poor. A reflection of your intelligence or lack of it.



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Post time 16-4-2014 01:23 AM From the mobile phone | Show all posts
Sephiroth posted on 10-4-2014 12:45 PM
Ini ada hal aku nak tanya Muslims :

Source : https://my.entertainment.yahoo.com/news/filem-noah-d ...

Kecik je aku tengok hindu seko ni tawwww.
Bengap dari dulu sampai sekarang tak habis2.
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Post time 16-4-2014 01:27 AM From the mobile phone | Show all posts
Sephiroth posted on 12-4-2014 03:11 PM
by Kid



Lagi bodo hindu yg minum air kencing lembu.
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 Author| Post time 16-4-2014 10:06 AM | Show all posts
sam1528 posted on 15-4-2014 11:45 PM
Now you are giving me an article from 'Islam Watch'by Mohammad Asghar? This guy is not a scholar a ...

this what the quran says :


covering the chest ...and the cloth should be soft so that air can enter the hair roots for it breath...ventilation

so easy yet you muslims not able to understand..

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 Author| Post time 16-4-2014 10:13 AM | Show all posts
sam1528 posted on 10-4-2014 10:17 AM
Ooh , ikut Padri Truth.8 dlm bible tak payah pakai tudung walaupun 1cor11:6 adalah sebaliknya.

...

berbalik dgn nun pakai tudung....kita kena faham mereka adalah nun sama macam monk , paderi , sami hindu...mereka berpakaian begitu...



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Post time 16-4-2014 11:04 AM | Show all posts
Truth.8 posted on 16-4-2014 10:06 AM
this what the quran says :


covering the chest ...and the cloth should be soft so that air can enter the hair roots for it breath...ventilation

so easy yet you muslims not able to understand..

Now you are trying to change your argument. Nobody is in disagreement that the breast should be covered.

However you made an argument that head cover is not in the Quran and worse of all you made a mistake that hijab = headcover.

You now need to explain and provide the authoritative source(s) that the word 'khimar' in Quran24:31


does not mean 'head cover'.

Why are you trying to run from your own argument?

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