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Aku nak tanya pada muslim..

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Author: Truth.8       Show all posts   Read mode

Post time 14-4-2014 02:56 PM | Show all posts
Truth.8 posted on 14-4-2014 02:22 PM
what is corpus quran? another version is it?

Ha ha , I kind of have pity on you by the way you display your ignorance. The meaning of 'corpus' :
a large or complete collection of writings: the entire corpus of Old English poetry.

The very least , try to understand something before you expose your ignorance.

Did you actually read and understand your copy paste? Points 6 and 7 per your post #50
6 I am assuming that the restriction was for women when praying or prophesying, although some who hold this view would argue that the passage does not restrict it to this. See discussion earlier.

7 It must be kept in mind that a head covering is not the same as a hat. A hats function is to show off the beauty of the woman, much as beautiful hair does. A head covering, however, was intended to veil her glory.

Some of the Christians themselves view that this verse is an instruction for head covering.

Prof Geza Vermes in his book -  The Nativity, Geza Vermes, Penguin Books, 2006, p53
The idea of potential sexual rapport between angels and women continued to float in the air even as late as in the New Testament times. Indeed, when St Paul forbade the female members of the church of Corinth to attend Christian assemblies with the head uncovered, he justified this prohibition by his belief that the sight of their hair might lead astray some passing-by sons of heaven: 'That is why a woman ought to have a veil on her head, because of the angels', Paul insisted (1 Cor 11:10)

What say you?



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sam1528 posted on 14-4-2014 02:56 PM
Ha ha , I kind of have pity on you by the way you display your ignorance. The meaning of 'corpus'  ...

u asking what say me? look the ample proof I have posted that covering of garment in head is not as per what Paul meant.

you are igroant fool who think such is from God commandement when there none.
it is BIG  disgrace for peoples who have      good hair but covering it with garment ...surly not God commandment.. all man made cultural or tradtional...

The Quran itself never mention anything about that issue nor the Bible...

More detail also available :
The Womans Headcovering
by Michael Marlowe, October 2008
I Corinthians 11:2-16.
Last edited by Truth.8 on 14-4-2014 03:20 PM

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Post time 14-4-2014 05:59 PM | Show all posts
Truth.8 posted on 14-4-2014 03:14 PM
u asking what say me? look the ample proof I have posted that covering of garment in head is not as per what Paul meant.

you are igroant fool who think such is from God commandement when there none.
it is BIG  disgrace for peoples who have      good hair but covering it with garment ...surly not God commandment.. all man made cultural or tradtional...

The Quran itself never mention anything about that issue nor the Bible...

More detail also available :
The Womans Headcovering
by Michael Marlowe, October 2008
I Corinthians 11:2-16.

You did not even read much less understand what you copied pasted. Excerpt from your very own source :
The angels are here mentioned as an additional reason for the headcovering. As watchers and agents for God, their attention is especially drawn to spiritual exercises. We might also notice that in Isaiah chapter 6 the seraphs who cried holy, holy, holy covered their faces and their feet with their wings in the awful presence of God. It so happens that the Septuagint version has here the word ʦӦʦ˦ԦЦӦئ, which Paul has been using. So perhaps Pauls reference to the angels is meant to recall how the seraphs covered themselves, in which case the idea would be that if the angels themselves do this, how much more should a woman.

By the way , I quoted the late Prof Geza Vermes. He was acknowledged to be the foremost scholar in contemporary Jesus research. Simply put , his opinion is that in 1cor11 , women should cover their head.

My argument has the support of a foremost christian scholar whereas you have none.

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 Author| Post time 14-4-2014 06:08 PM | Show all posts
sam1528 posted on 14-4-2014 05:59 PM
You did not even read much less understand what you copied pasted. Excerpt from your very own sour ...

Muslims quote:
(1 Corinthians 11:6), "If a woman does not cover her head, she should have her hair cut off; 1 Corinthians 11:6, "and if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut or shaved off, she should cover her head."

Christian's reply: Covering head is NOT in the 1 Corinthians 11 .

It looks Mohamed while copying scriptures and stories from the Bible could not understand the real meaning like other Muslim scholars so he..so he put Muslim women in the prison of hijab.
You Muslims hate Paul but it looks you love the covering portion written by Paul.What a Hypocrisy!!
Reply to Muslims: Hair is the covering, Paul says in verse 6 about cutting hair or shaving hair for women is disgrace. The answer is found in verse 15
1 Corinthians 11:15,
1 Corinthians 11:15, But if a woman has long hair, it is a glory to her; for her hair is given to her for a covering.
1 Corinthians 11:15 says, "for her hair is given to her for a covering"
Long Hair - Covering
Muslims say:
This is not in the bible?!? News to me... This is in Corinthians, did you not just quote a few verses after?
Christian's reply:
It is hypocrisy of Muslims that they pick few verses and twist. Why stop reading at verse 6. I already gave you the concept of the whole passage. Here is verse 15 clarifies what that covering is. It is Long Hair.
Where do you read CLOTH covering in 1 Corinthians 11?

Muslims say:
When I have consulted a priest they have told me that the head must be covered not by long hair but by cloth
Christian's reply:
Priests had not written Bible so what can they say.
Muslims say:
Mary had scarf in Bible as head covering.
Christian's reply:
Bible does not talk about Mary having scarf as head covering. Bible does not talk about CLOTH covering

Muslims say:
Anything that will cover the hair, such as a hijab, a head scarf.
Christian's reply:
Bible does not talk about scarf or hijab or any cloth covering. But Bible talks about Long Hair as head covering, I don't know from where Muslims read hijab and scarf in Bible? It looks they can't read properly the verses given in Bible.

Muslims say:
You do know that the bible instructs women to cover their hair.

Christian's reply:
Cover their HAIR????
I don't read hair in Bible but HEAD. 1 Corinthians 11:6, If a woman does not cover her head.. Bible does talk about Long Hair as head covering

Not a single Muslim could show me cloth covering in 1 Corinthians 11 Because Bible doesn't talk about cloth covering in 1 Corinthians 11 But about LONG HAIR as head covering. So what Muslims spread about head covering in Bible shows their ignorance or lack of knowledge about Bible.




The covering Paul is speaking of here cannot be a cloth covering. 1. God did not prescribe style, to denote a religious object. Therefore, it is not a religious object. 2. Since it is not a God-prescribed religious object, then it could be any cloth, if it is indeed a cloth. This includes weather protection. 3. If women's weather protection is enough to cover her head, then men's head protection is enough to cover his head too much for prayer. Does God want men to risk frostbite, in order not to dishonor Christ? The scriptures rate it a worse thing for a man to pray covered, than for a woman to pray uncovered!

    Paul defines his own terms. Her hair is given to her for a covering. Just because that word is peribolaion, which is different from the word katakalupto, does not mean one is spiritual, and the other natural. Peribolaion is a noun. Katakalupto is a verb. Just as we eat(verb) using food (noun), and we do not see eat as a spiritual object, and food as a natural object, even so we need to use common sense with the Greek words here. Katakalupto means to cover down over. Peribolaion is someTHING thrown around one, as a mantle. Therefore, the peribolaion provided by God does indeed katakalupto the woman's head.

    Verse 6 is used to counter this common-sense approach of allowing Paul define his own terms. "Shorn or shaven" is seen as two different lengths of hair: shorn is thought of as simply cut or trimmed hair, while shaven is seen as hair completely cut off at the scalp level. But the Scriptures define "shorn" to mean the same length as "shaven."

In Numbers 6, God gives the Law about shaving the head after keeping a vow. Paul keeps this command twice in the New Testament. In Acts 21, it says Paul shaved his head. But in Acts 18, that same law was obeyed by Paul having his head "shorn." In fact, the Greek term here is used to refer to a sheep's shorn fleece. Therefore, "shorn or shaven" both are talking about the same length of hair: completely removed at scalp level.

    Verse 9 refers to Creation. Therefore, this principle existed ever since Creation, and is evident in how God wanted men and women to appear before him ever since that time. Yet, we have no commandment whatsoever in the Old Testament to women, to wear a cloth on their heads. Obviously, it was customary for both men and women to do so, but it was not a command of God.

However, in the Law, God prescribed bonnets for the priests for a glory. If it were a shame for men to pray covered, then God got it wrong. Also, God told Ezekiel to first cover his head, and then to prophesy. Again, if it is a shame for man to pray or prophesy with covered head, then God got it wrong there.

Yet, the long-feminine-hair-being-the-women's-covering is completely consistent throughout both Old and New Testaments. God said how he felt about the length of men's hair, when he prescribed the priests hair to be "neither long, nor shaven, but only polled."

Therefore, the entire passage is easily understood, if we allow Paul to define his own terms. Of course it is a shame to a woman's own head, her husband, and to her Creator, if she has a man's hairstyle! And it is a shame for a man to pray with long hair. God didn't design androgyny. He designed gender distinction.

If a man's head is too covered to pray having long hair, then a woman's head is covered enough to pray, if she has that same long hair.
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God's glory is his authority and power. The male represents the authority and power of God, and therefore his head is uncovered. God's glory is thus unobstructed. The man is therefore unashamed to have short hair (or a shaven head), but in fact "glories" as such. We can say that such a man "beams" with the glory of God.

The woman's glory is her beauty, and therefore her head is covered. (We might also add that her head is also covered because she does not represent the authority and power of God.) She is therefore beautiful to the man. We can say that such a woman "beams" with the glory of man.

If, on the other hand, a woman would rather represent the authority and power of God, then her head should be uncovered (or shaven) to her shame.

BUT, if a woman just so happens to have short hair (for WHATEVER reasons), then she should just wear a wig, which were worn in the ancient world. THE WIG IS THEREFORE THE SO-CALLED COVERING TO WHICH PAUL REFERS.

That is, if a woman already has long hair, then her head is covered with hair; but if she has short hair, or shaven head, then she is to wear a covering (which is a WIG). If she insists on representing God's power and authority, then her head is to be left uncovered or shaven. To put it another way, even if she physically has long hair, a woman who tries to represent the authority and power of God is simply shameful, and therefore she is no different than a woman with her head shaven. In fact, Paul says, she should simply remove her hair accordingly (and "uncover" her head), since the uncovered head represents the power and glory of God by definition (which, as we noted, is the place of the male).

Finally, and not least, Paul mentions that men with long hair are "contrary to nature" as objects of beauty among men -- that is, the place of long hair is specific only to the woman. It is therefore MOST terrible when such a man with such a "covered" head is praying and prophesying.

Last edited by Truth.8 on 14-4-2014 06:58 PM

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Post time 14-4-2014 07:16 PM | Show all posts
Truth.8 posted on 14-4-2014 06:08 PM
Muslims quote:
(1 Corinthians 11:6), "If a woman does not cover her head, she should have her hai ...

You are going around in circles trying to spin the issue. This is the problem when you appeal to uneducated apologetics in order to defend your bible. Oops , to defend what you think the bible should say.

Your reference states :
Muslims quote:
(1 Corinthians 11:6), "If a woman does not cover her head, she should have her hair cut off; 1 Corinthians 11:6, "and if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut or shaved off, she should cover her head."

Christian's reply: Covering head is NOT in the 1 Corinthians 11

Look at the underlined of 1cor11:6 - Cover her head. Suddenly the argument is covering her head is not in the verse whereas it is explicitly stated that women should cover her head. If she does not cover her head then she should have her hair cut off. How can it even be referring to hair being for the head cover per your argument?

Don't you ever think logically and question what you read? Your appeal becomes more and more absurd , now its :
BUT, if a woman just so happens to have short hair (for WHATEVER reasons), then she should just wear a wig, which were worn in the ancient world. THE WIG IS THEREFORE THE SO-CALLED COVERING TO WHICH PAUL REFERS.

You still have not responded to the learned opinion of Prof Geza Vermes (The Nativity, Geza Vermes, Penguin Books, 2006, p53)
The idea of potential sexual rapport between angels and women continued to float in the air even as late as in the New Testament times. Indeed, when St Paul forbade the female members of the church of Corinth to attend Christian assemblies with the head uncovered, he justified this prohibition by his belief that the sight of their hair might lead astray some passing-by sons of heaven: 'That is why a woman ought to have a veil on her head, because of the angels', Paul insisted (1 Cor 11:10)




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sam1528 posted on 14-4-2014 07:16 PM
You are going around in circles trying to spin the issue. This is the problem when you appeal to u ...

Everything already explained in crystal clear that covering head is not with garment, cloth or whatever....
It all about hair for women with long hair and if shave or short, it can cover basically paul was refering to wig because women who have short hair it look like men ...
simple thing like this do not understand...

until now not even a single verses in quran about covering the head  with garment or cloth

as for your claimed : 'That is why a woman ought to have a veil on her head, because of the angels', Paul insisted (1 Cor 11:10)

t seems that the principle is timeless. That is, the head-covering (hair) for women is a timeless principle in all ages and in all places, since angels have co-existed with man since man was created. In fact, angels preexisted man.The Hebrew Bible (Job 38:7) indicates that the "sons of God" rejoiced at the creation of the world. These "sons" were angels (please click here), and therefore they preexisted man on the earth. If we recognize that the serpent in the Garden of Eden was Satan (Rev 12:9 and Rev 20:2), then angels were aware and observed Adam and the woman (Eve) in the Garden of Eden; in fact, cherubim were posted to guard the Garden of Eden so that no one could return there after Adam's disobedience (Gen 3:24). According to the Christian New Testament, angels today observe the behavior of men on earth (1 Cor 4:9; Eph 3:10; 1 Tim 3:16; and 1 Pet 1:12).
Thus angels have been aware of the creative order; that is, the man (male) was created before the woman (1 Cor 11:8-9). Before the introduction of sin into the world, the man (male) was the representative of God's authority on earth. The Lord God "crowned" him with God's authority of rulership on the earth (Ps 8:5-6). These verses in the Psalms indicate that the "head" of the man is therefore "crowned" with the glory of authority. (Incidentally and very interestingly, these same verses indicate that man was created lower than the angels --please compare Hebrews 2:7-8-- that is, the angels precede man in the creative order.) Then woman was created after the man as his "help meet" (Gen 2:18, KJV). Thus her head was not "crowned" with authority, but with the glory of the beauty of her hair (1 Cor 11:15).
God's glory is his authority (1 Chr 29:11). Man (or the male) reflects that glory as the authority of God on the earth. His head is therefore not to be "covered" with the glory of beautiful hair in the fashion of a woman (1 Cor 11:14). Although woman is "one flesh" with man (Gen 2:23), her glory on the other hand is her beauty, and therefore her head is covered with hair (or a wig, which is the alternative head-covering for a woman). She is not the glory of God (authority), but the glory of man (beauty). Otherwise a woman without hair is shamed. If a woman insists on bucking the creative order (and she happens to have long hair), then she might as well as shave her head (1 Cor 11:5), because bucking the creative order is shameful. Likewise as just mentioned, a male with long hair is shameful (to which Paul invokes "nature" as testimony in 1 Cor 11:14).
In other words, the angels have recognized the creative order between God and man, since they existed before man. (Thus man was created lower than the angels, which the angels also recognize.) Therefore the biblical principle of the created order (man, then woman) is not restricted to any cultural or era of time... but is timeless to the present day. That is, the angels also recognize God's creative order between man and the woman in creation, and the place of man, who is created lower than the angels. Man and woman are "one flesh," but the one who reflects the authority of God is man, and the one who reflects the glory of man is the woman (and not vice-versa).
Thus the principle of the "creative orders" of God are as timeless as the angels -- thus Paul mentions "because of the angels."




Last edited by Truth.8 on 14-4-2014 09:09 PM

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Post time 14-4-2014 09:52 PM | Show all posts
Truth.8 posted on 14-4-2014 08:58 PM
Everything already explained in crystal clear that covering head is not with garment, cloth or whatever....
It all about hair for women with long hair and if shave or short, it can cover basically paul was refering to wig because women who have short hair it look like men ...
simple thing like this do not understand...

until now not even a single verses in quran about covering the head  with garment or cloth

as for your claimed : 'That is why a woman ought to have a veil on her head, because of the angels', Paul insisted (1 Cor 11:10)

There is something wrong with you.

I have given you Lane Lexicon which states of the word 'khumurihinna' (transliteration) , Quran24:31 , originates from the tri lateral root 'Kha Mim Ra' which means covering and the english translation of the Quran (the Corpus Quran) confirm it to be head covering. You are a blur person aren't you? I think you don't even know the meaning of 'head covering'.

You are unable to challenge me but just deny everything and anything.

This time your copy paste do not even address the issue. It just states that the woman glory and beauty is her hair. Lets go back to the verse 1cor11:6
For if a woman does not cover her head, she might as well have her hair cut off; but if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut off or her head shaved, then she should cover her head.

Breakdown of the verse
- If the woman does not cover her head
- She might as well cut off her hair
- However it is a disgrace for her to cut her hair or have her head shaven
- Therefore she should cover her head

The context of it means that regardless of having hair or not - she should cover her head. This is so simple yet you blunder big time. Suddenly its all about wigs now. This is absurd.

Worse still you appeal to uneducated apologist for your argument. Prof Geza Vermes explained this verse very clearly.


Last edited by sam1528 on 14-4-2014 09:55 PM

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sam1528 posted on 14-4-2014 09:52 PM
There is something wrong with you.

I have given you Lane Lexicon which states of the word 'khum ...
There is something wrong with you.

I have given you Lane Lexicon which states of the word 'khumurihinna' (transliteration) , Quran24:31 , originates from the tri lateral root 'Kha Mim Ra' which means covering and the english translation of the Quran (the Corpus Quran) confirm it to be head covering. You are a blur person aren't you? I think you don't even know the meaning of 'head covering'.

nothing wrong with me...your Quran verses it stated:
And  tell  the  believing  women  to  reduce  [some]  of  their  vision  and  guard  their  private parts  and  not  expose  their  adornment  except  that  which  [necessarily]  appears  thereof and  to  wrap  [a  portion  of]  their  headcovers  over  their  chests  and  not  expose  their adornment  except  to  their  husbands,  their  fathers,  their  husbands'  fathers,  their  sons, their  husbands'  sons,  their  brothers,  their  brothers'  sons,  their  sisters'  sons,  their women,  that  which  their  right  hands  possess,  or  those  male  attendants  having  no physical  desire,  or  children  who  are  not  yet  aware  of  the  private  aspects  of  women. And  let  them  not  stamp  their  feet  to  make  known  what  they  conceal  of  their adornment.  And  turn  to Allah in  repentance,  all  of  you,  O  believers,  that  you  might succeed.

where is covering the hair???


Breakdown of the verse
- If the woman does not cover her head
- She might as well cut off her hair
- However it is a disgrace for her to cut her hair or have her head shaven
- Therefore she should cover her head

The context of it means that regardless of having hair or not - she should cover her head. This is so simple yet you blunder big time. Suddenly its all about wigs now. This is absurd.

does it says cover with garment or cloth?? it can be wig..
here I  got a link :

    "And tell the believing women to subdue their eyes, and maintain their chastity. They shall not reveal any parts of their bodies, except that which is necessary. They shall cover their chests, (with their Khimar) and shall not relax this code in the presence of other than their husbands, their fathers, the fathers of their husbands, their sons, the sons of their husbands, their brothers, the sons of their brothers, the sons of their sisters, other women, the male servants or employees whose sexual drive has been nullified, or the children who have not reached puberty. They shall not strike their feet when they walk in order to shake and reveal certain details of their bodies. All of you shall repent to GOD, O you believers, that you may succeed." 24:31  


God does not wait for a Scholar to put the correct words for Him!  

The Arabic word for CHEST, GAYB is in the verse (24:31), but the Arabic words for HEAD, (RAAS) or HAIR, (SHAAR) are NOT in the verse. The commandment in the verse is clear - COVER YOUR CHEST OR BOSOMS, but also the fabrication of the scholars and most of the translators is clear by claiming- cover your head or hair.  

The last part of the verse (24:31) translates as, "They shall not strike their feet when they walk in order to shake and reveal certain details of their bodies." The details of the body can be revealed or not revealed by the dress you wear, not by your head cover.  

Notice also the expression in 24:31,  

"They shall not reveal any parts of their bodies, except that which is necessary."  

This expression may sound vague to many because they have not understood the mercy of God.  Again God here used this very general term to give us the freedom to decide according to our own circumstances the definition of  "What is necessary".  

It is not up to a scholar or to any particular person to define this term. God wants to leave it personal for every woman and no one can take it away from her. Women who follow the basic rule number one i.e. righteousness, will have no problem making the right decision to reveal only which is necessary.  

The word "zeenatahunna" in this verse refers to the woman's body parts (beauty) that can be exaggerated by the movement of the body while walking and not to the artificial ornaments and decorations as some people interpret it or translate it. At the end of the verse, God told the women not to strike with their feet to show their "zeenatahunna."  Striking the feet while walking can emphasize ,  exaggerate or shake certain parts of the body that do not need to be emphasized. It is important to remember that striking the feet while walking does not have this effect on the head, hair or face, they are not part of what God calls in this verse the hidden zeena.  

Accepting orders from anybody but God, means idol-worship. That is how serious the matter of Hijab/khimar is. Women who wear Hijab because of tradition or because they like it for personal reasons commit no sin, as long as they know that it is not part of this perfect religion. Those who are wearing it because they think God ordered it are committing Idol-worship, as God did not order it, the scholars did. These women have found for themselves another god than the One who revealed the Quran, complete, perfect and FULLY detailed to tell them they have to cover their heads to be Muslims.  

THE WORD "HIJAB" in the QURAN  

"Hijab" is the term used by many Muslims women to describe their head cover that may or may not include covering their face except their eyes, and sometimes covering also one eye. The Arabic word "Hijab" can be translated into veil or yashmak. Other meanings for the word "Hijab" include, screen, cover(ing), mantle, curtain, drapes, partition, division, divider.  

Can we find the word "Hijab" in the Quran??  

The word "Hijab" appeared in the Quran 7 times, five of them as "Hijab" and two times as "Hijaban," these are 7:46, 33:53, 38:32, 41:5, 42:51, 17:45 & 19:17.  

None of these "Hijab" words are used in the Quran in reference to what the traditional Muslims call today (Hijab) as a dress code for the Muslim woman.  

God knows that generations after Muhammed's death the Muslims will use the word "Hijab" to invent a dress code that He never authorized. God used the word "Hijab" ahead of them just as He used the word "Hadith" ahead of them.  
    Source:      Khimar" is an Arabic word that means, cover, any cover, a curtain is a Khimar, a dress is a Khimar, a table cloth that covers the top of a table is a Khimar, a blanket can be used as a Khimar..etc. The word KHAMRA used for intoxicant in Arabic has the same root with Khimar, because both covers, the Khimar covers (a window, a body, a table . . . etc.) while KHAMRA covers the state of mind. Most of the translators, obviously influenced by Hadith (fabrications) translate the word as VEIL and thus mislead most people to believe that this verse is advocating the covering of the head.  

In 24:31
God is asking the women to use their cover (khimar)( being a dress, a coat, a shawl, a shirt, a blouse, a tie, a scarf . . . etc.) to cover their bosoms, not their heads or their hairs. If God so willed to order the women to cover their heads or their hair, nothing would have prevented Him from doing so. GOD does not run out of words. GOD does not forget. God did not order the women to cover their heads or their hair.link :https://answers.yahoo.com/questi ... 081115200047AArJ4Fw                                          
                      Its not written anywhere in the Quran !!

There are TWO verses in the Quran regarding the dress code:

1-  24:31
2-  33:59

The verse 24:31 is an instruction under NORMAL circumstances i.e.

1-  Do not expose parts of body except that which is necessary.
2-  Cover their chest and curves.
3-  Do not wear dresses that reveal the details of the body and do not walk to reveal them either.

While the verse 33:59 is a circumstancial instruction. The context of the verse tells about the SERIOUS situation in the vicinity at that moment.

1-  It tells of taking a covering over them, so that they are recognized as honorable women and are NOT disturbed etc.


NEITHER of the TWO verses (24:31 and 33:59), say cover the head.          
Last edited by Truth.8 on 14-4-2014 10:49 PM

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Post time 14-4-2014 11:33 PM | Show all posts
Truth.8 posted on 14-4-2014 10:20 PM
nothing wrong with me...your Quran verses it stated:
And  tell  the  believing  women  to  redu ...

Ha ha , no wonder you are in trouble. Your argument is so naive. It appears that you have the mentality of a primary school kid.

Now you are arguing with a translation of the Quran about headcover. It is very clearly stated in the verse , bit part :
appears  thereof and  to  wrap  [a  portion  of] their  headcovers  over  their  chests  and  not  expose  their adornment  except  to  their  husbands,  their  fathers,  their  husbands'  fathers,  their  sons,

Now you ask me where does it state hair?

To educate you , on your head , that is where the hair grow. Covering the head automatically would mean covering of the hair. I just don't get it why do you continuously insult your own intelligence or lack of it.

A wig is not headcover. It is considered a thing for beauty.

Now you are giving me a link about lay people addressing the issue. How come you did not include the response by a person who goes by the nick 'noor'
Mohamed K and Shah RK followers
you are hypocrites, you are explaining the verses according to your RK's words.
you follow a man that claimed to be a messenger after the prophet peace be upon him, so you are not Muslims, and you words don't really count when it comes to Islamic issues.
only people like you will take your words.


about the Q.

*{Tell the believing men to lower their gaze and be modest. That is purer for them. Lo! Allah is Aware of what they do. And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and be modest, and to display of their adornment only that which is apparent, and to draw their veils over their bosoms, and not to reveal their adornment save to their own husbands or fathers or husbands fathers, or their sons or their husbands' sons, or their brothers or their brothers' sons or sisters sons, or their women, or their slaves, or male attendants who lack vigor, or children who know naught of women's nakedness. And let them not stamp their feet so as to reveal what they hide of their adornment. And turn unto Allah together, O believers, in order that ye may succeed.}*

See also verse number 59 in Surah, which give the meaning of:
*{O Prophet! Tell thy wives and thy daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks close round them [when they go abroad]. That will be better, that so they may be recognized and not annoyed. Allah is ever Forgiving, Merciful.}*

The above verses very clearly show that it is Allah Almighty Himself, Who commands the women to wear hijab, though that word is not used in the above verses. In fact, the term hijab means much more than the covering of the body; it refers to the code of modesty outlined in the verses quoted above.

Look at the expressions used: Lower their gaze, be modest, not to display their adornment, draw the veils over their bosoms not to stamp their feet etc.

It must be clear to any thinking person what is meant by all the above expressions in the Holy Quran. Women in the Prophets time used to wear a kind of dress that covered the head, but not the bosom properly. So when they are asked to draw their veils over their bosoms so as not to reveal their beauty, it is clear that the dress must cover the head as well as the body. And hair is considered by people in most cultures of the world - not only in the Arab culture - as an attractive part of a womans beauty.

Until the end of the nineteenth century, ladies in the west used to put on some kind of head gear, if not a cover for the whole hair. This is quite in conformity with the Biblical injunction for the women to cover their heads. Even in these degenerate times, people pay more respect to the more modestly dressed ladies, than to the scantily clad ones. Imagine a lady prime minister or a queen wearing a low-cut blouse or a miniskirt in an international conference! Can she command as much respect there as she would get if she were in a more modest attire?

For the above reasons, the scholars of Islam are unanimous that the Quranic verses quoted above clearly mean that women must cover the head and the whole body except for the face and the hands.

You quoted the allegation that the Prophet introduced the hijab, because he saw one of his wives flirting with another man. This is one of those baseless charges against Islam and its Prophet, coined by those who saw their fragile ideologies crumbling before the march of Islam.

Does the hijab prevent a woman from performing her day-to-day duties?

For one thing a woman does not normally wear hijab in her own house, so it shouldnt get in the way when shes doing housework. If she is working in a factory close to machinery or in a laboratory, for exampleshe can wear a different style of hijab that doesnt have dragging ends. Actually loose trousers and a long shirt for instance lets her to bend, lift, or climb steps or ladders more easily, if her work allows that. Such a dress would certainly give her more freedom of movement while protecting her modesty at the same time.

However it is interesting to note that the very same people who find fault with the Islamic dress code for women do not find any thing improper in the dress of nuns. It is evident that the hijab of Mother Teresa did not prevent her from social work! And the western world honored her with the Nobel Prize! But the same people would argue that the hijab is a hindrance for a Muslim girl in a school or for a Muslim lady working as a cashier in a super market! This is the kind of hypocrisy or double standards which paradoxically some sophisticated people find fashionable!

Is hijab an oppression? It could certainly be so, if someone forces a woman to wear it. But for that matter, semi-nudity also can be an oppression, if someone forces a woman to adopt that style. If women in the west - or east - have the freedom to dress as they please, why not allow the Muslim women to prefer a more modest dress?
http://www.readingislam.com/servlet/Sate...

Again , your link is in support of my argument as this person has thoroughly refuted your position.

In addition , a person of the nick 'casey; has this to say :
First Corinthians Chapter 11 verse 5

It's in the Bible which the Muslims also believe to some degree.
This part they believe.

Most Christians feel that verse is a "cultural ' verse, although some wear headcover before God in church but not around their husbands. The Amish/Mennonites still wear headcover at all times.

TQ , your link completely refutes you and support me.

If you have any intelligence , it would have been employed when you read something.


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sam1528 posted on 14-4-2014 11:33 PM
Ha ha , no wonder you are in trouble. Your argument is so naive. It appears that you have the ment ...

you falied again

The Arabic word for CHEST, GAYB is in the verse (24:31), but the Arabic words for HEAD, (RAAS) or HAIR, (SHAAR) are NOT in the verse. The commandment in the verse is clear - COVER YOUR CHEST OR BOSOMS, but also the fabrication of the scholars and most of the translators is clear by claiming- cover your head or hair.  


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Post time 15-4-2014 09:27 AM | Show all posts
Truth.8 posted on 15-4-2014 12:51 AM
you falied again

The Arabic word for CHEST, GAYB is in the verse (24:31), but the Arabic words for HEAD, (RAAS) or HAIR, (SHAAR) are NOT in the verse. The commandment in the verse is clear - COVER YOUR CHEST OR BOSOMS, but also the fabrication of the scholars and most of the translators is clear by claiming- cover your head or hair.  

The failure is in your part for not understanding the issue. This again expose your lack of intelligence in this whole issue.

Note that we are talking about headcover not head (raas) nor hair (shar). You cannot even understand what you read. The problem with you is that you read what you want the verse to mean. The said verse from your post #58
And  tell  the  believing  women  to  reduce  [some]  of  their  vision  and  guard  their  private parts  and  not  expose  their  adornment  except  that  which  [necessarily]  appears  thereof and  to wrap  [a  portion  of]  their  headcovers  over  their  chests  and  not  expose  their adornment  except  to  their  husbands,  their  fathers,  their  husbands'  fathers,  their  sons, their  husbands'  sons,  their  brothers,  their  brothers'  sons,  their  sisters'  sons,  their women,  that  which  their  right  hands  possess,  or  those  male  attendants  having  no physical  desire,  or  children  who  are  not  yet  aware  of  the  private  aspects  of  women. And  let  them  not  stamp  their  feet  to  make  known  what  they  conceal  of  their adornment.  And  turn  to Allah in  repentance,  all  of  you,  O  believers,  that  you  might succeed.

The said verse stated that to cover the chest with the headcover meaning that the headcover covers from the head to the chest. How in the world do you understand the verse to state cover only the chest? Can you read and understand english?

You might want to get yourself an education.

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sam1528 posted on 15-4-2014 09:27 AM
The failure is in your part for not understanding the issue. This again expose your lack of intell ...

there you go  again with your igorance fool. some muslims studies quran for almost 15 years do admit that the covering of head is not mention in the quran.

I can posted numberous but you cowdung still will think otherwise...the issue of covering head is not part of God commandements but from a cultural /or traditional....u understand or not?

      Regarding Head cover in Islam?  

      I have studied islam since 16 but i was always told headcovering is compulsory but I went back to quran and to my surprise almost all the translation headcovers are not talked about but rather the covering of bosoms (which lies between chest and breast). some new translation has manipulated the verse by adding bracketed addition of head covering. What it prescribes is modest form of dressing, it never says you have to wear a burqa and cover complete face and head. Though if people want to go extra mile of covering their head thats their choice but why make something obligatory when its not mentioned?  

Update 1:  Its sad people have lost their traditional clothing and made everything appear arab so people think must wear arab clothing to be a proper muslim which is wrong imo. quran asks for both men and women to dress modestly, if head-covering was obligatory it would mentioned directly. From understanding is its optional not a must.


Update 2:  it says nothing to cover your head, show me a verse without a bracket interpretation where it makes it obligatory that one should cover their heads? almost all the previous translation never translated the covering of the head, it says over bosoms which are between the breast and chest, the head covering being obligatory is invention, also in hadith not sure but it does not obligate women to wear head covering, its optional or during sala but having to put it where ever you go is not mentioned in the quran. no direct mention.   
          Update 3:  I read all your verses and all of them are bracketed, which means the word of a man. When allah says not to display the adornment, it means not to displays the sexual parts, and be dressed in modest manner, also some of the cloak you mentioned was during the time when muslim women were in danger, so they wore the cloak for protection since arabs already wore this.   
          Update 4:  scholars differ in opinion so we can't blindly say which is which, but i'm sure if head covering was compulsory then surely allah would of clearly mentioned it, rather then leaving us to guess. My point is the head covering might be during sala than making it compulsory to wear daily life, its that misconception makes muslims backward is we make things compulsory whats  not mentioned.   
          Update 5:  The hadeeth quotation you mentioned are baracketted, some of them relates to the climate of arabia, the head covering and face covering is optional and not compulsory, one cannot punish a women if she choses not to wear the headcovering.   


The problem is that head covering is an Arab cultural practice.

And Islam was invented by Uthman as religion similar to Judaism.....only making the Arabs God's chosen people. This is why:

1) Islam originally did not accept non-Arab converts;
2) In Islam, Allah's language is pure Arabic;
3) Muslims are encouraged to take Arabic names;
4) Arab cultural traditions are considered of divine origin;
5) Arabic versions of the Koran are considered the only correct versions - even though Arabic isn't the original language of the Koran.


PS - In the original Aramaic version of the Koran, the sura you mention doesn't tell women to cover their heads and faces....AND it doesn't tell them to cover their bosoms either...it simply tells them to be chaste.  

Finally, someone speaking some sense! The burkah especially is dangerous Dangerous for security and also dangerous for womens health if not worn responsibly (lack of sunlight to the skin causes severe vitamin D deficiency. Hair roots become weak because no ventilation and etc...Why would God ask a human being to do something which is bad for them?

link :https://malaysia.answers.yahoo.c ... 130710063515AABcPWg


Last edited by Truth.8 on 15-4-2014 10:07 AM

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The Dress Code for Women in the Quran

Introduction:

Before presenting the Quranic rules for women's dress, it is essential to be reminded of the following:

1- The Quran is the only source of law that is authorised by God (6:114).

2- The Quran is complete and fully detailed (6:38, 6:114, 6:89 and 12:111).

3- God calls on His true believers to make sure not to fall in the trap of idol worship by following the words of the scholars instead of the words of God (9:31).

4- God calls those who prohibit what He did not prohibit, aggressors, liars and idol worshippers (5:87, 6:140, 7:32, 10:59).

The command to follow the Quran alone is given very clearly in the Quran, see: Dozen Reasons

Quranic guidelines for women's dress

First Rule : The Best Garment

"O children of Adam, We have brought down to you garments to cover your private parts, as well as for adornment, yet the garment of reverence is the best. These are some of God's signs, perhaps they will remember." 7:26
link : https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/3096125/all
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Post time 15-4-2014 12:14 PM | Show all posts
Truth.8 posted on 15-4-2014 09:51 AM
there you go  again with your igorance fool. some muslims studies quran for almost 15 years do adm ...

Ha ha , the one who is making a fool of himself is just you and only you. Now you refer to a yahoo forum in which you quote a person who has been studying Islam for 15 years? BTW the person cannot even speak , read and understand arabic because he has to rely on translation.

Per the same link , scroll to the 5th answer :
Its is in the Quran. The Quran mentions "jalaabeeebihinna' which is jilbaab which means headscarf. So you are wrong. There a many hadiths and verses of the Quran concerning hijab. Here are a few:

.....
Again I am proven right as the arabic word means headcovering which extend to the breast.

Its high time you get an education.

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Post time 15-4-2014 12:29 PM | Show all posts
Truth.8 posted on 15-4-2014 10:14 AM
The Dress Code for Women in the Quran

Introduction:

Another red herring from you. I quoted Quran24:31 and you did even address such verse.

The meaning of the word khimar is 'Top Cover'. This mean that the covering starts from the top and extend downwards
The Arabic word khimar means top-cover and it also applies to many things besides womens head covers. For example, it applies to the top covering a pot or jar, to any head cover worn by people even men. Notably, thats where liquor and narcotics got their Arabic name khamr because they cover the reasoning when a person is intoxicated.

This can further be verified via Lane Lexicon (pg 809) :

Can be doubled confirm by the Dictionary and Glossary of the Koran by John Penrice (Adam Publishers and Distributors) , pg 45



In all cases the word 'bikhumurihinna' (transliteration) is rendered 'Head Covering' in the said verse.

The verse in question per your post #58
And  tell  the  believing  women  to  reduce  [some]  of  their  vision  and  guard  their  private parts  and  not  expose  their  adornment  except  that  which  [necessarily]  appears  thereof and  to  wrap  [a  portion  of]  their  headcovers  over  their  chests  and  not  expose  their adornment  except  to  their  husbands,  their  fathers,  their  husbands'  fathers,  their  sons, their  husbands'  sons,  their  brothers,  their  brothers'  sons,  their  sisters'  sons,  their women,  that  which  their  right  hands  possess,  or  those  male  attendants  having  no physical  desire,  or  children  who  are  not  yet  aware  of  the  private  aspects  of  women. And  let  them  not  stamp  their  feet  to  make  known  what  they  conceal  of  their adornment.  And  turn  to Allah in  repentance,  all  of  you,  O  believers,  that  you  might succeed.

Your own reference state of headcover.

Why are you going round and round chasing your own backside? Could it be that you are not educated enough to understand such simple explanation?


Last edited by sam1528 on 15-4-2014 12:30 PM

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sam1528 posted on 15-4-2014 12:29 PM
Another red herring from you. I quoted Quran24:31 and you did even address such verse.

The mean ...

listen to what the muslim saying...not my word but many muslims around the global says covering head is not part of the quran

i will post more and more with regards to this issue



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Truth.8 posted on 15-4-2014 01:49 PM
listen to what the muslim saying...not my word but many muslims around the global says covering he ...

                                "Among them is a group who distort the Book with                 their tongues so that you think it is from the Book when it is not from                 the Book. They say, 'it is from Allah', but it is not from Allah. They                 tell a lie against Allah and they know it." (Qur'an 3:78)
               
                Those people who publish                 books and writings on the Qur'an altering its core meanings with                 extra-Quranic sources must also                 be aware of Allah:
                                                        
"Woe                 to those who write the Book with their own hands then Say: "This is from                 Allah!", so that they can make a cheap gain! Woe to them for what their                 hands have written, and woe to them for what they gained." (Qur'an 2:79)                 
               
Verse 33:53    of the Glorious Qur'an, does not command the prophet's wives to wear niqab,       nor the ordinary believing women. Face veil / niqab does not feature in verse   33:53 at all. Furthermore, it is actually addressing the believing men,   not the wives of the prophet.
               
There is no teaching in the Qur'an for any women of the world to cover their  faces when outside. The human head is a miraculous act of creation and a distinctly different  part of the human body - and has been designed by Allah on both men and  women with the expectation that it remains exposed at all times. See Hijab & Niqab in the Qur'an                
                                                                                 

                                The Woman who Lost her Face
                                                                        
                                In May 2005, Isabelle Dinoire from France was attacked by her pet Labrador who gnawed away her face when she fell unconscious. She woke up in a pool of blood.                                The damage to her face was so extensive that doctors ruled out routine face reconstruction and suggested a face transplant instead. Her nose, lips and chin were completely torn away.                                 
                                                               
                                                
                                                               
                                With such horrific injuries, Isabelle hid from the world. She describes her experience prior to her surgery in the following words:                                
                                                                        
                                "First time I went out [wearing face mask], in some ways, I was happy to go out. But in other ways, I was frightened to leave the hospital. At the start, I cried every time I went out.                                Some people don't say anything out of the ordinary. They say, 'hello', they talk. Other people look and shrink back. In the shops, some people                                even hide out of the way. No body could tell how long its going to take [to find a face donor]. I need to walk                                around the hospital. When I hear the Firemen and the Ambulences, each time I think its going to be someone who is going to die. And may be I                                 could have a face. Its a hard thing to say."
                                                               
                                Isabelle would do anything to have her old intact face back, which Allah had created for her to walk outside with a pleasant look.                                She now has an appreciation of the purpose of her original face which she can never get back.                                Allah's bounty on all means He did not give such a test upon you, but used her as a means for those who seek wisdom. Those who are wise are able to place themselves                                in the shoes of someone else and learn from the wisdom they might gain without having to go through the same experience. The face you                                have is designed to cover the hideous underwork just beneath it. For one to say that you must cover the face designed by Allah, without which you would have to hide from the world is an indication of a lack of                                 appreciation of Allah and a lack of true wisdom.                                
                                                                                                "Have we not made for him two eyes? A tongue and two lips? And we showed the way to two paths. Yet, he has not embarked upon the steep path. What will explain to you what the                                steep path is? It is to free a slave. To feed people in days of shortage. To bring the orphans near as well as the very poor.                                Only then he would become one of the believers, who exhorts people to the truth and to kindness. These are the companions of the right". (Qur'an 90:8-
Read here:   http://www.quranicpath.com/finerpoints/33_53_niqab.html

                Where "Children of Adam"                 includes both men and women. This humanly pleasantness in everyone Allah speaks of                 is something for us to thank Allah by and appreciate in all human beings,                 both men and women.
                                                
                Over the centuries, in the                 name of Islam, some of the most concealed ways of dressing has been                 suggested for 'Muslim' women by clergy, who consist mostly of men.                 According to them, the "best" way of dressing for a woman involves, in                 their chosen words, to appear as a black "crow", concealing every part of her                 including the face, eyes, hands and feet in black drape. In this way,                 even                 the simplest shape or form of a human being's appearance is taken away                 from a woman and                 she is reduced to a 'mere shadow'.
                                
               
               
                Though different levels of dressing for women was                 suggested, this is said to be the 'best level' according to them.                 They also teach that the                 eyes also be covered with the veil! visible yet in this picture!



                Understanding the way                 Allah created the Human:
                                                
                The human body is a                 miraculous act of creation by Allah. Every function of the                 body is placed through superior wisdom. The human body has five primary                 senses to interact with the world. These are:
                                
                1) Vision            2) Hearing            3) Smell                            4) Taste           5) Touch           
                                
                Each of these senses have                 unique sensing devices that are especially designed to accomplish their                 respective sensing functions. Sense of touch is done by the skin on                 every part of our bodies. The sensors for vision, hearing, smell and taste are                 all concentrated on one particular place, the human head.                This is for an important reason. The reason being solely the fact that                 the head is intended by Allah to be exposed to the environment.
                 
                                
               
                                
                All organs that requires to be fully exposed to                 the environment are strategically placed on the head so that it can work at its best                 performance without hindrance.
               
                In the creation of the human, Allah                 intended the human head to be completely unobstructed in order for all                 the systems to function optimally. This is how:
                                
                The Eyes
                                
                Light rays from                 reflecting scenery are to fall on the eye through an unobstructed passage                 in order to perceive the true intensity and the colour of the scenery.                 A barrier would block light. This is an important reason why the eyes are on the head, since the head                 is expected to be                 left uncovered.
                                
                Mouth & Nose -                 Breathing
                                
                The exhaled breath contains a relative humidity of 100% -                 that is, it is highly moisture rich. This moisture as well as heat has                 to diffuse into the surrounding environment and not get trapped, if it                 does, then heat and moisture would cause discomfort on the skin.                 This is a reason why nose and mouth are again placed by Allah on the                 head, so that an unobstructed passage is maintained with the                 environment, allowing diffusion of heat                 and moisture optimally.
                                
                The Ears
               
               
read more here :  http://www.quranicpath.com/misconceptions/hijab_niqab.html


                                                                                                                                                                                                           


Last edited by Truth.8 on 15-4-2014 03:00 PM

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Truth.8 posted on 15-4-2014 02:09 PM
"Among them is a group who distort the Book with                 t ...

                Understanding the                 Quranic Verses
                       
                First of                 all, it must be understood on part of the thinking reader that the true                 religion of Allah is in full harmony with Allah's created mechanisms                 and intentions in                 nature.
               
               
                               
                In order for something to be a Quranic commandment, the                 command has to be in harmony with the designed functions of the                 Creator's design.
                               
                Therefore, in order for a dress to be a command of Allah,                 the expected senses that require exposure at all times cannot be                 concealed. Note that they do not stop functioning outdoors, they are in                 continuous use. Therefore, the expectation that the head is a part of                 the body that remains always exposed in the blue-print or master-plan of                 Allah, is valid for all times of the day (indoor or outdoor).
                               
                Does the Qur'an command the covering of hair for women ("Hijab")?
                               
                The word "hijab" is never used in the Qur'an in the                 context of women's dress. This word is used only in its                 general meaning of "barrier" in other contexts (eg. 17:45), but never in women's dress or                 modesty. Yet it has developed completely unique applications among the                 majority. There is no use of the word 'hijab' in terms of women's dress                 in the Qur'an.
                               
                One        part of a verse of the Qur'an has been attempted to be shown to command the covering                 of hair. This is the 31st verse of Surah An-Nur quoted as follows:
                               
                وَقُلْ                 لِلْمُؤْمِنَاتِ يَغْضُضْنَ مِنْ أَبْصَارِهِنَّ وَيَحْفَظْنَ فُرُوجَهُنَّ                 وَلا يُبْدِينَ زِينَتَهُنَّ إِلا مَا ظَهَرَ مِنْهَا وَلْيَضْرِبْنَ                 بِخُمُرِهِنَّ عَلَى جُيُوبِهِنَّ
(Qur'an 24:31)
                               
                "Tell the believing women to lower their                 gaze and guard their private parts, and that they shall not flaunt their                 beauty except for what appears (naturally) from it, and let them put forth their covers                 over their cleavage." (Qur'an 24:31)
                               
                The portion used to mean cover the hair                 is the underlined portion above (وَلْيَضْرِبْنَ                 بِخُمُرِهِنَّ عَلَى جُيُوبِهِن َّ ). It should be understood that the ordainment,                 or the commandment here is for a believing woman to cover her cleavage.                 It is not commanding her to cover her hair. The word "hair" does not                 appear in the Arabic. The Arabic word                 translated as "covers" for the Arabic word                خُمُرْ                / 'khumur' (plural of 'khimar'), should be translated with due regards to several                 factors. These include:
                               
                (1) The logical understanding on the nature in which Allah created                 the human head (ears need unobstructed passage for optimal performance,                 and hair on head is part of                 "natural" human pleasantness that we cannot do without {more later}).
               
                (2) The Arabic root for the word, shares meanings with more                 general "covering" or "concealment" and not just                 headscarf.
                               
                (3) The immediate context within the                 verse, which is ordering the                 covering of the cleavage only (عَلَى جُيُوبِهِنّ), with no mention of hair (indicating the                 ordainment is not in the type of apparatus used, but in the covering of low                 neck-line). Even if it means 'headscarves' worn at the time, the command                 is not in the type of clothing used to cover the cleavage                 (headscarf), but to cover the cleavage. The usage of the word is                 determined by the readily available method at that instance, variable by                 other means in other parts of the world, or by any means such as a                 higher neck dress.  
                               
                (4) It can be observed that men tend to cover all their chest and women reduce their                 neck-line in society in order to show-off feminine grace. Therefore, in                 order to tackle the common habit, a                 commandment to cover the cleavage area is a strong logical                 reason for the verse than the hair.
                               
                Therefore, it makes perfect sense to                 conclude that the intention of "وَلْيَضْرِبْنَ                 بِخُمُرِهِنَّ عَلَى جُيُوبِهِن َّ                 / and let them put forth their covers                 over their cleavage" is to order believing women to ensure the                 cleavage area is                 covered and not the hair.
                               
               
                               
The Quranic requirement for 'khimar' requires a believer to                 wear an adequately high neckline dress (etc.) according to her conscience.               

more : http://www.quranicpath.com/misconceptions/hijab_niqab.html

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 Author| Post time 15-4-2014 03:33 PM | Show all posts
Truth.8 posted on 15-4-2014 03:05 PM
Understanding the                 Quranic Verses                                        First of                 all, it must be understood on part of the thin ...

                                       
                                                Hair is part of basic human aesthetics. It constitutes the minimum look of a human being that allows people to function in society.                 In addition however, believing women take pride in an                 'additional' artistic design of Allah in which they have been created
(See                 Women & Beauty - A Secret Revealed in the Qur'an).


and compare this


Nothing....empty ....is this what Creator need women in this earth??

Last edited by Truth.8 on 15-4-2014 03:34 PM

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Post time 15-4-2014 05:37 PM | Show all posts
Truth.8 posted on 15-4-2014 01:49 PM
listen to what the muslim saying...not my word but many muslims around the global says covering head is not part of the quran

i will post more and more with regards to this issue
Ha ha , you are so confused. The person in the video is so confused.

This is why I stated that to argue on the Quran , you need to have a bit of arabic knowledge. At this moment you have no knowledge in arabic and even that your english is problematic. If you don't know , refer to the scholars or authoritative sources. Do not refer to layman.

Why are you still arguing on 'Hijab' being 'head cover'? 'Hijab' in Quranic terms mean screen or conceal. The term has been loosely used to refer to 'head cover' which is wrong but society accept it and it has now become a norm. As an example , Pampers is a brand name for disposable diaper. However our society often refer to disposable daipers being Pampers. It is the dialect of certain society. We have to understand such from the collective society usage.

Of course hijab does not mean headcovering. Where do you or the person in the video get this idea from? A naked women who stand in front of a screen while talking to a non mahram is in hijab. This mean she has concealed herself from him. Take the screen away and she has to put on clothing that conceal herself from the non mahram.

We are arguing about 'head covering' which is part of clothing that conceal oneself or to be in 'Hijab'. Head covering has been explicitly stated in Quran24:31 , the word


transliteration - bikhumurihinna

means 'their head covers'

This has been confirmed by authoritative sources of Quranic translations like Lane Lexicon and Dictionary and Glossary of the Koran.

In fact a contemporary fatwa by Dr Yusuf Qaradawi (vol1 , pg 453-455) state of such
One of the great fitnas (trials) and intellectual conspiracies that has been introduced into the Muslim world is the alteration of matters of certainty to matters of doubt and debate. He also states that all of the scholars throughout history from various groups such as the Sufis, the Dhahiris (the Literalists), the fuqahaa (jurists), and the scholars of hadith unanimously agree that it is fard for the believing woman to cover her hair.

All the scholars from all the Schools of Thought have been unanimous on this issue. All I have from you are are just arguments from lay people who don't even understand arabic and arguing on the issue of 'no hair mention'. Dey tambi , when 'head cover' is mentioned , one should be intelligent enough to understand that the hair is involved because the majority of the female population have hair on their head.

This is where intelligence is needed. Too bad you don't have any.

Last edited by sam1528 on 15-4-2014 05:39 PM

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 Author| Post time 15-4-2014 06:02 PM | Show all posts
sam1528 posted on 15-4-2014 05:37 PM
Ha ha , you are so confused. The person in the video is so confused.

This is why I stated that to ...

I can provide fact and truth according to scholar , individual  and etc who all born muslims but your nuts head or donkey brain consider sturborn as mule....

CONCLUSION:

God, the Most Merciful, gave us three basic rules for the Dress Code for Women in Islam (Submission),

(1) The BEST garment is the garment of righteousness.
(2) Whenever you dress , cover your chest (bosoms).
(3) Lengthen your garment.

While  these three BASIC rules may not sound enough for those who do not trust  God, the TRUE believers know that God is ENOUGH. God could have given  us more details to the point of having graphs, designs and color rules,  but He , the Most Merciful, wants to give us exactly these very basic  rules and leave the rest for us. After these three basic rules every  woman is more aware of her circumstances and can adjust her dress for  her situation. Any addition to these basic Quranic rules is an attempt  to correct God or improve on His merciful design.

We have no  obligation to follow but God's rules. Innovations and fabrications that  added thousands of rules to the women dress code are nothing but  idol-worship and should be refused.
link:  http://www.sistersinislam.org.my/news.php?item.604.10


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Post time 15-4-2014 06:26 PM | Show all posts
Truth.8 posted on 15-4-2014 06:02 PM
I can provide fact and truth according to scholar , individual  and etc who all born muslims but your nuts head or donkey brain consider sturborn as mule....

You have just confirm yourself to be of very low intelligence. In fact I don't think you know what scholar means. Ha ha , 'Sisters in Islam' are scholars? You must be out of your mind.

Now your proof of what a scholar stand on head covering is an article copied pasted from 'Sisters in Islam' which is taken from 'freeminds.org'. Firstly the organization of 'Sisters in Islam' is just a NGO , they are not scholars. This copy paste has been refuted by Bro Bassam Zawadi with regards to their writings :
In order to attempt to refute my twelfth argument...



Surah 24, verse 31 says "And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof" What exactly is this part that "appears thereof"?



The author throws off red herrings first.



He argues that Hijab is not a part of Islam and one argument he gave for this is that it was practiced by the Jews and Christians before Islam.



It never crossed the mind of the author that perhaps the institution of Hijab was a law set by God before the coming of Muhammad peace be upon him and that this law (just like the prohibition of alcohol) continued to persist in Islam.





The author then says...



    Those blessed by God can see that the use of the word "Khimaar" in this verse is not for "Hijab" or for head cover.

How hilarious. Basically according to this author, if someone understands the Qur'an the way he does then that means that the person is blessed and if he doesn't then he is cursed by God.



WHAT OBJECTIVE STANDARD IS THE AUTHOR USING TO INTERPRET THE QUR'AN? That is the question he needs to answer.



The weakness of the author's position is clearly evident. See his ridiculous answer...



    God knows that we will be living in different communities, times and cultures, so the minor details of the dress code are left for the people of every community to decide for themselves. Modesty for a woman who lives in New York may not be accepted by a woman who lives in Cairo. Modesty of a woman who lives in Cairo may not be accepted by a woman who lives in Saudi Arabia. Modesty of a woman who lives in Jeddah may not be accepted by a woman who lives in a desert oasis in the same country. This difference in the way we perceive modesty is well-known to God. He created us, and He put NO hardship on us in this great religion. He left it to us to decide what modesty would be.



The stupidity of the author's response baffles me. How could the author utter such stupidity? Is it because he knows the weakness of his position? He is basically stating that a woman's modesty differs from place to place. I know that, this is the whole argument in the first place. That is why we need an objective standard to tell us what modesty truly is.

The Qur'an according to the author only tells the woman to cover her bosom (which could possibly mean that she can show her back, belly, legs and arms) and thus the author suggests that the rest of the details are left up to the woman.

Let's imagine the following scenario. A woman from New York who is used to wearing a miniskirt and showing parts of her back travels to Saudi Arabia where men view this dress code as immoral. What happens? Disunity happens. Corruption happens for most men who become sexually tempted by seeing the woman's bare arms, back, belly and legs exposed in front of them. How on earth can we tell people that Islam teaches women to dress modestly in this case?

Notice the verse in the Qur'an that states:

           

    Surah 33:59

    O Prophet! Tell your wives, your daughters, and the wives of the believers that they shall lengthen their garments. Thus, they will be recognized and avoid being insulted. God is Forgiver, Most Merciful."



Notice, that the dress code that the women are supposed to wear permits them to be recognized and stand out. How can that happen when we don't have a dress code unique for women? How can you recognize a Muslim woman then?





The author then says:



    God, the Most Merciful, gave us three basic rules for the Dress Code for Women in Islam.

    01). The best garment is the criterion of righteousness.

    02). Whenever you dress, cover your chest (bosoms).

    03). Lengthen your garment.





So basically the woman can show her back, belly, arms and most of her legs?





The author contradicts his position and then says...



    WHAT BODY PARTS CAN WOMEN SHOW IN PUBLIC?

    Face, hands and forearms, heads, feet and ankles.

    5:6 O You who have chosen to be graced with belief! When you congregate for Salat, wash your faces and your forearms, hands to the elbows. Lightly rub your heads and your feet to the ankles."

    Ibn Umar said that during the times of Rasulullah (S) men and women used to do Wudhu together." (Bukhari published by Madina Publishing Company, Karachi, 1982, Printer Hamid & Co, vol 1, pg 169 Kitabil Wudhu. The translator is "Maulana" Abdul Hakim Khan Shahjahan Puri)

    Source: http://www.ourbeacon.com/truehistory.pdf



The hypocrisy and double standards of the author are quite amazing. He would selectively cite hadith that he likes. Plus his saying that only Face, hands and forearms, heads, feet and ankles contradicts his first position...





    God, the Most Merciful, gave us three basic rules for the Dress Code for Women in Islam.

    01). The best garment is the criterion of righteousness.

    02). Whenever you dress, cover your chest (bosoms).

    03). Lengthen your garment.



For the first position indicates that a woman can also show her back, legs and belly while the second position doesn't. So which one is it?

My argument still stands. The Quran ALONE by itself in the sense the Quranites understand does not make clear what is modest and what is immodest for a woman to wear. The Qur'an says "except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof". This statement is clarified by the Prophet (peace be upon him) and not by the Qur'an alone. The Quranite when clearly trapped resorts to uttering stupidity as we have seen above. The weakness of the Quranite position should be clear to the reader by now.

My argument to you still stand. Can you now show any authoritative source(s) that state of the word


to be other than 'head covering'? Sisters in Islam is not an authoritative source. None of them are scholars.

You can't can you? This shows the weakness of your position. In addition , you are not intelligent enough to recognize a scholar and their works.


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 Author| Post time 15-4-2014 10:28 PM | Show all posts
Truth.8 posted on 15-4-2014 06:02 PM
I can provide fact and truth according to scholar , individual  and etc who all born muslims but y ...

ibnur you deduct my credit but you never deduct muslims credit for calling names and etc...
good, in eartly life you do all  the crap work...in judgment day  u face your wrath or even now, you will face wrath..

do i  care my credit deduct , not at all thats why the forum here becoming death when muslims run as moderator

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 Author| Post time 15-4-2014 10:30 PM | Show all posts
sam1528 posted on 15-4-2014 06:26 PM
You have just confirm yourself to be of very low intelligence. In fact I don't think you know what ...

not only sister islam but many source I have provided.  the head covering nothing but a cultural or traditional before islam and christian...
one  need not to cover the head but dress in modesty ....simple as that

What the Quran Says about Hijab or           Veil!                      
              07 Feb, 2009
                        We read in the Quran:
            
              Say to the believing men that they should lower their gaze                 and guard their modesty: that will make for greater purity for                 them: and Allah is well acquainted with all that they do. [Q                 24:30]
                              And say to the believing women that they should lower their               gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their               beauty and ornaments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof;               that they should draw their veils over their bosoms except to               their husbands, their fathers, their husbands fathers, their               sons, their husbands sons, their brothers or their brothers               sons, or their sisters sons, or their women, or the slaves whom               their right hands possess, or male servants free of physical               needs, or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex;               and that they should not strike their feet in order to draw               attention to their hidden ornaments. And O ye Believers! Turn ye               all together towards Allah, that ye may attain Bliss. [Q 24:31]
              
            
            I understand that it was necessary for Allah to make such rules,             as, in His judgment, were necessary to regulate the uncivilized             social behavior of a people Muhammad and his companions were going             to rule once Allahs mission to establish Islam in the Arabian             Peninsula was accomplished. But what about those rules through which             He had sought to instill a sense of purity and modesty in Muslim men             and women? Let us briefly go over those rules.
            
            Avoiding eye contact and covering sexual organs appropriately are             two of the ways through which, Allah believes, both Muslim men and             women can avoid commission of adultery or fornication among them. It             was this knowledge of human behavior that had prompted Allah to ask             both Muslim men and women to lower their gaze, when they find             themselves face to face with strangers. He prohibited women from             displaying her figure or appear in undress except before their             husbands, near relatives who would be living in the same house, and             with whom a certain amount of negligee is permissible.[1]             He has also asked them not to display their ornaments[2]             before anyone, but the men mentioned in the above verse, in order to             protect themselves from their lustful desire.
            
            Believing that what Allah had thought were the appropriate             measures for preventing Muslims from committing adultery or             fornication, we wonder why He asked only the women to cover their             bosoms and to refrain from displaying their beauty before none, but             their husbands and close relatives? Why He asked them to hide their             ornaments and also not to strike their feet in order not to avoid             drawing strange mens attention to them? Why He wants women to draw             their veils over their bosoms, while requiring strange men not to             look up, and gaze at them?
            
                        Veil             worn by Muslim women is a highly sensitive and contentious issue.             The Western world does not understand why Muslim women should cover             themselves from head to toe, and continue to suffer discomfort,             among others, in humid and fetid climate. Muslims counter that             wearing of veil is not at all uncomfortable for their women and that             it is an obligation that Allah has imposed on them so that they may             be able to maintain their physical and spiritual purity. Many Muslim             women claim that covering their bodies with burqa liberates them,             and enhances their sense of safety. They also contend that when the             Western world does not find any problem with the Christian nuns             covering themselves up with veil, why it should feel concerned with             the Muslim women wearing the same attire!
            
            A complex issue, such as the wearing of veil by the Muslim women,             calls for a detailed discussion. I, therefore, wish to do exactly             the same here by relying on other statements of the Quran that are             connected with the subject of veil. But before doing that, I must             point out an important fact, it being: three different words have             been used in the Quran to describe what Muslim women need to do to             protect themselves from the prying eyes and assault of strange men.             These words are: khimar, hijab and jilbab.
            
            We find the word khimar in verse 24:31, quoted above. Here are             two other verses with the words hijab and jilbab in them:
The black color of the fabrics, used in making burqa then, helped             its wearer blend well with the darkness of night, thus enabling them             to evade would-be attackers. This color has since become almost             universal: today, if not all, almost all the burqas are made of             black cloth, worn mostly by suppressed Muslim women of the world.
            
            Headscarf became a part of Muslim womens Islamic dress when             Spain and some other European territories fell into Muslim hands.             Worn by Christian Nuns in Europe, its adoption by Muslim             women was intended to make an equivalent religious statement of             their own. Its introduction amongst European Muslim women was also             necessitated, perhaps, by their refusal to wear bulky burqas, which             their sisters-in-faith used to wear elsewhere in the Muslim world.             Hence the headscarves are in extensive use mainly by the white             Muslim women today.
            
            The gist of my discussion on hijab (veil), khimar (a piece of             cloth) and jilbab (outer garment or burqa) is the following:
            
            Khimar is a piece of cloth Muslim women need to cover their             bosoms with, when they are inside their homes; hijab is a screen or             barrier[17],             behind which unrelated men should hide themselves while talking to             Muslim women. Muslim women can also hide themselves behind hijab, if             they want to avoid the gaze of men at them.[18]             Jilbab is a body-covering Muslim women are required to wear at home             and outside of it. That fact that, young Muslim women at home are             also required to shield their bodies from the eyes of the young men             of the house as well as of Allah with the help of a cloth, is also             evident from verse 24:60. In it, Allah has clearly stated: Such             elderly women as are past the prospect of marriage; there is no             blame on them if they lay aside their outer garments,[19]             provided they make not a wanton display of their beauty:[20]             but it is best for them to be modest: and Allah is One Who sees and             knows all things. The form of the jilbab (burqa) that is used by             Muslim women today to cover themselves from head to toe has no             sanction in the Quran.
            
            There is no provision in the Quran that requires Muslim women to             wear headscarf when they are outside of their homes. It is a             concept, which European Muslim women had borrowed from Christian             nuns. It is not Islamic; therefore, has no Islamic value or             importance.


read more here:  http://www.islam-watch.org/masghar/quran-on-hijab-or-veil.htm

Last edited by Truth.8 on 15-4-2014 10:40 PM

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Post time 15-4-2014 11:45 PM | Show all posts
Truth.8 posted on 15-4-2014 10:30 PM
not only sister islam but many source I have provided.  the head covering nothing but a cultural o ...

Now you are giving me an article from 'Islam Watch'by Mohammad Asghar? This guy is not a scholar and the site is a polemical site. In fact this is another person who is very confused , like you. Bit part of your copy paste :

Khimar is a piece of cloth Muslim women need to cover their             bosoms with, when they are inside their homes; hijab is a screen or             barrier[17],             behind which unrelated men should hide themselves while talking to             Muslim women. Muslim women can also hide themselves behind hijab, if             they want to avoid the gaze of men at them.[18]             Jilbab is a body-covering Muslim women are required to wear at home             and outside of it. That fact that, young Muslim women at home are             also required to shield their bodies from the eyes of the young men             of the house as well as of Allah with the help of a cloth, is also             evident from verse 24:60. In it, Allah has clearly stated: Such             elderly women as are past the prospect of marriage; there is no             blame on them if they lay aside their outer garments,[19]             provided they make not a wanton display of their beauty:[20]             but it is best for them to be modest: and Allah is One Who sees and             knows all things. The form of the jilbab (burqa) that is used by             Muslim women today to cover themselves from head to toe has no             sanction in the Quran.
            
            There is no provision in the Quran that requires Muslim women to             wear headscarf when they are outside of their homes. It is a             concept, which European Muslim women had borrowed from Christian             nuns. It is not Islamic; therefore, has no Islamic value or             importance.

This guy does not even know the meaning of 'Khimar' Again I am asking you. Can you provide authoritative sources that confirm 'khimar' does not mean head covering? You have none so far. Why are you arguing about 'khimar' while not even knowing its meaning?

Does it matter if the head covering by muslimah is an extension of what the Israelites and Christians? Haven't it crossed your mind that it is law that Allah implemented and it continued to persist with Islam. I have shown that wearing head covering is in the Old Testament.

My question to you for the 6th time :
Can you now show any authoritative source(s) that state of the word


to be other than 'head covering'?

Until now you have failed in all your argument. What you are doing is just copy paste without even understanding what you read. This is very poor. A reflection of your intelligence or lack of it.



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