The Iraqi Saga: Remix

Show all posts · Post time 15-2-2004 05:29 AM

We have nothing to fear. US don't go to war for kicks. They don't place their soldiers in danger for nuts. Singapore is innnocent, we have nothing to fear. Only crooks need to fear and fear they must. If there is no credible deterent, yu will see a lot of rogue leaders playing games to destabilise the world.

--> If you read my example properly, what I said basically is that although S'pore or any other SEA countries are perfectly innocent, by the same principles used by the US against Iraq, they can justify a military invasion on any country.

This is the right thing to do, these anti US hypocrites and their twisted agenda need to be exposed and addressed. I hate hypocrites.

--> Yes, I agree that Osama needs to have his brain examined and Abu Sayyaf sent to the moon but this does not mean that every action launched by the US against any nation under the flag of an Islamic state justified.

We do not need to hammer the Iraq issue as a 'payback' matter against anything. If I remember correctly, when a few Italian soldiers were killed in Iraq after arriving for peacekeeping and their bodies sent back to Italy, the minister at the service told the masses not to have hatred for what has been done but embraced the people of Iraq and others to show the true essence of Faith(and in this case, Christianity). This is what I call Applied Faith and don't you think that is what we should strive for?

Debmey · Post time 15-2-2004 07:43 AM

I have already explained in the previous thread that the use of force by States have to be examined under Art 2(4) and Art 51 of the UN Charter.

The purpose of a UN Resolution and the repercussions of violation is a matter entirely out of the scope of Art 2(4) and Art 51. For a State found to be in violation, the sanctions are strictly political and economical but not militarily.

Not true, there is no restriction to the use of military force to enforce 1441. If that is so, then 1441 has no meaning. The world should not let Saddam have his way and play games.

If you read my example properly, what I said basically is that although S'pore or any other SEA countries are perfectly innocent, by the same principles used by the US against Iraq, they can justify a military invasion on any country.

Not true, there is no basis of comparison between Iraq and Singapore. Singapore has never invaded anyone nor used WMD. Only rouge states need to fear and fear they must. If there is no credible deterent, yu will see a lot of rogue leaders playing games to destabilise the world.

--> Yes, I agree that Osama needs to have his brain examined and Abu Sayyaf sent to the moon but this does not mean that every action launched by the US against any nation under the flag of an Islamic state justified.

In the case of Saddam, there is a very good case to remove him for the sake of the 25 million Iraqis. Surveys have shown that a huge majority of Iraqis are happy with the US invasion, so who are yu to say that the US shld not have invaded. Did yu live under oppression by Saddam and his sons? I think yu need to wake up my fren.

We do not need to hammer the Iraq issue as a 'payback' matter against anything. If I remember correctly, when a few Italian soldiers were killed in Iraq after arriving for peacekeeping and their bodies sent back to Italy, the minister at the service told the masses not to have hatred for what has been done but embraced the people of Iraq and others to show the true essence of Faith(and in this case, Christianity). This is what I call Applied Faith and don't you think that is what we should strive for?

I absolutely agree with you, and Muslims shld not hate the US for liberating and dying for Iraqis.

peace

Show all posts · Post time 15-2-2004 05:03 PM

Dumbey,

While i'm taking my time pondering WinterNight's points that violation of 1441 does not conform with UN Charter, I'll leave the legality of invasion to rest for the moment.

It may not be found. But that does not mean it wasn't there in the first place.

Being there in the first place does not yield equation that it will be there after that.

Admiral: David Kay, George Tenet, Bush, Blair... they've all said NOT found and MAY NOT be found at all. It is YOU lying that there are WMD stockpiles

Dumboy: You forgot to mention that David Kay found secret labs that were undeclared that contained vials of biological agents.

What are you talking about??? Are you ok?

No matter how hard yu cry or cried. the war is already over. Saddam has been removed. You can insult and curse all yu want out of your frustratuion but its useless

You must be very sick. I do not seek to reverse the course of event that had taken place. The removal of Saddam the madman bears no significance and connection to the justification of war that we're talking about! I'm here to debate with you the justification of this war DUMBEY. Why go off track?

Saddam does have links to Al Qaeda

So, you prefer to shy away from BBC and CNN eh? Because they report something which CONTRADICTS with your belief. Your selective reading and memory is really astounding. The link you've shown me is non-credible! A pack of faeces indeed. Once again you've shoot your own foot.

The article mentioned George Tenet's letter about Saddam's link with Al Qaeda was in 7 Oct 2002 - 1 months BEFORE Nov's Resolution 1441 and 5 months BEFORE Iraq War in Mar 2003. So, AFTER April 2003, Tenet has shown himself a fool! No trace of Al Qaeda schools, camps or playgrounds being found. And you're one of those being FOOLED by Tenet and this outdated website! Did George Tenet mention AGAIN in this address on WMD intelligence this year in George Town University in 5 Feb 2004? NO. As a consequence, Bush had called for Inquiry.

Now is your turn to answer my question which you haven't answered:
1) 15 years ago, the Republicans consists of Colin Powell, Donald Rumsfeld, Bush.... vetoed Prevention of Genocide Act 1988 against Iraq's use of WMD. It wasn't a crime back then but why is it a crime AFTER 15 years?

Note: Not able to answer would mean there's nothing wrong with usage of WMD by Saddam. Your assertion that he is dangerous is non-valid.

2) Proof that Saddam had link with Al Qaeda.

Note: Not able to prove it would mean you're lying on outdated source.

3) Proof that Iraq stockpiles WMD.

Note: Not able to prove it would mean there is no WMD. Since there's no WMD, it means THERE IS NO THREAT in the first place.

p/s: please... don't shoot your own foot again. Read carefully, analyse and most importantly THINK before you post. Remember, you're representing Singaporean Army.

Debmey · Post time 16-2-2004 02:25 AM

Being there in the first place does not yield equation that it will be there after that.

Admiral: David Kay, George Tenet, Bush, Blair... they've all said NOT found and MAY NOT be found at all. It is YOU lying that there are WMD stockpiles

Does that prove that it was not there? I can prove to you that hundreds of thousands of Iranians and Kurds were attacked with WMD.

Dumboy: You forgot to mention that David Kay found secret labs that were undeclared that contained vials of biological agents.

What are you talking about??? Are you ok?

Looks like you never followed the reports have you?

You must be very sick. I do not seek to reverse the course of event that had taken place. The removal of Saddam the madman bears no significance and connection to the justification of war that we're talking about! I'm here to debate with you the justification of this war DUMBEY. Why go off track?

Debate the justification after the war is over? The UN, France , Germany, etc have already accept reality. How stupid of you.

So, you prefer to shy away from BBC and CNN eh? Because they report something which CONTRADICTS with your belief. Your selective reading and memory is really astounding. The link you've shown me is non-credible! A pack of faeces indeed. Once again you've shoot your own foot.

You prefer to shy away from CBS and Foxnews have you?

The article mentioned George Tenet's letter about Saddam's link with Al Qaeda was in 7 Oct 2002 - 1 months BEFORE Nov's Resolution 1441 and 5 months BEFORE Iraq War in Mar 2003. So, AFTER April 2003, Tenet has shown himself a fool! No trace of Al Qaeda schools, camps or playgrounds being found. And you're one of those being FOOLED by Tenet and this outdated website! Did George Tenet mention AGAIN in this address on WMD intelligence this year in George Town University in 5 Feb 2004? NO. As a consequence, Bush had called for Inquiry.

In that case, the French, Germans and Russians were all fools too, only yu are smarter than them. Hahahahahahahahahahah................

Now is your turn to answer my question which you haven't answered:
1) 15 years ago, the Republicans consists of Colin Powell, Donald Rumsfeld, Bush.... vetoed Prevention of Genocide Act 1988 against Iraq's use of WMD. It wasn't a crime back then but why is it a crime AFTER 15 years?

It is illegal since 91, not 15 years later. How dishonest can yu be?

2) Proof that Saddam had link with Al Qaeda.

Note: Not able to prove it would mean you're lying on outdated source.

When the info contradicts your lies,u call them outdated. Hahahahahahahahaha...........

3) Proof that Iraq stockpiles WMD.

Note: Not able to prove it would mean there is no WMD. Since there's no WMD, it means THERE IS NO THREAT in the first place.

Already proven since 91. the burden of proof is for Iraq to show us these have been destroyed.They didn't.

p/s: please... don't shoot your own foot again. Read carefully, analyse and most importantly THINK before you post. Remember, you're representing Singaporean Army.

I don't represent the Singapore army any more than yu represent the Msian govt. Hhahahahahahahahahahahahah.........................

Acong · Post time 16-2-2004 09:45 AM

Dumboy is being kicked around by my fellow Malaysians!

Peace!

Debmey · Post time 16-2-2004 09:58 AM

You are are being kicked around by me. Hahahahahahahahaha........... keep the entertainment free boy.

Acong · Post time 16-2-2004 11:01 AM

Originally posted by Debmey at 16-2-2004 09:58 AM:
You are are being kicked around by me. Hahahahahahahahaha........... keep the entertainment free boy.

nothing's free lah! even ur NEWater!

Debmey · Post time 16-2-2004 11:34 AM

it is free, I never paid a single cent for your entertainment and never will.

peace

Show all posts · Post time 16-2-2004 07:23 PM

Dumboy,

Does that prove that it was not there? I can prove to you that hundreds of thousands of Iranians and Kurds were attacked with WMD

It was there. It is not here anymore. It is history. Yes, you can prove to me thousands of Iranians and Kurds died under WMD attacks deployed by Saddam. But have I told you not it was never a crime back then? The use of WMD is permitted by the Republicans! I've already told you that, the Democrats issued a legislation The Prevention of Genocide Act 1988 in response against Saddam's use of WMD but the Republicans vetoed this act! The Republicans that you worship is ALLOWING the use of WMD. So, I ask you again, why it became illegal 15 years later?

Looks like you never followed the reports have you?

Prove me wrong Dumboy! I'm CHALLENGING you to prove me wrong.

Debate the justification after the war is over? The UN, France , Germany, etc have already accept reality. How stupid of you.

Yes. We can STILL debate and verify whether it is right or wrong. If debating over it is wrong, then the Inquiry called by Bush is also stupid. You're slapping your own dumb mouth!

You prefer to shy away from CBS and Foxnews have you?

Never shy away from any news that can shed lights and truth. Show me HOW CBS and Foxnews prove your point. I'm VERY sure it will shoot your own foot again. Try it. Show me the link that prove you right. I CHALLENGE YOU. Don't why away...

In that case, the French, Germans and Russians were all fools too, only yu are smarter than them

Yes. We've all been FOOLED by George Tenet in Oct 2002. You post that article yourself. You read it back. There is no way we can verify the truth in such a short time. Nov 2002 called for Resolution 1441. 4 months later, March 2003, US launch attacks on Iraq without WE the people of the world able to verify what George Tenet is lying. But we all REALIZED it was falsehood. Only YOU still wrap yourself in cocoon of delusion believing it STILL the lies are truth! You're the ONE in dreamland. Not me, not France, not Germany and not the rest of the world. We've all been fooled like you but we've all woke up EXCEPT you! So.... who is DUMB here? You are... hahahahahaha

It is illegal since 91, not 15 years later. How dishonest can yu be?

You are the one being DISHONEST! You lied about WMD stockpiles. You lied that the Republicans and yourself disapprove of CONDONING atrocities by Saddam Hussien. I have proven to you that the SAME people in power today are responsible for watching blithely when Saddam carried out attacks. You never CONDEMN the Colin Powell, Bush, Rumsfeld and the rests for condoning the brutality. Never seen you CONDEMN the Reps for vetoeing the Prevention of Genocide Act 1988. You're a liar! To say you care about the Iraqis make me wanna puke! Hypocrites! Liar!

When the info contradicts your lies,u call them outdated

It IS outdated! It carries no weight! Only retarded fools like you would still believe in it no matter what. Because you're Bush Cult devotees. You're no different from terrorists. They commit crimes eventhough it is wrong. You're the same. You commit lies and joyfully believe in it eventhough it is wrong and lies. You're sick!

Already proven since 91. the burden of proof is for Iraq to show us these have been destroyed.They didn't

Already told you, not to fully account does not warrant the US commits aggression on a weak country.

I don't represent the Singapore army any more than yu represent the Msian govt

I'm GLAD to represent my country. Unlike YOU! Obviously you're NOT GOOD ENOUGH to be in the army! Cos you're DUMB. That's why you got yourself kicked! Don't try to fool me by saying you're a soldier. I know what is a soldier and NSmen. If you're a soldier, you're IN the army. NSmen are those doing part-time. Called upon to training upon requests and signals spread across on radio and TVs. Those fallen under the category have to respond to the call and gather in the camp for training. These are NSmen. You SAID you're a soldier. And NOW you're not. That speaks volume of what you are. No wonder you can online 24 hrs a day posting messages even at 4am in the morning. You're unemployed. You're useless!

p/s: i don't respect liar!

Show all posts · Post time 17-2-2004 01:28 AM

Debmey,

The present legal literature as I am aware indicates quite firmly that the said invasion was not legal. To explain it entirely would be to deconstruct the whole topic of it with I do not have the time to do so. If you are would like to read up on this issue, I would recommend International Law:Cases and Materials, Dixon and McCorquodale, 4th Edition.

However, in relation to the DECISION to go to war. The blame CANNOT be put solely on intelligence simply because the decision to go to war is a POLITICAL one. The statement you made about violations of UN Resolutions permitting the use of force is simply not true. If that were the case, there won't be any peace at all...there will be literally wars everywhere.

Show all posts · Post time 17-2-2004 01:38 AM

I believe and accept that certain people hold onto certain beliefs and this molds their perception on certain issues and it may, give perhaps an unreasonable hold upon that perception. It is similar to the notion of suicide bombing where it may be justified to some and completely bewildering to others in the same way certain people believe that this war is justified.

I am NOT criticizing you Debmey, as I think they are others who hold onto the same belief. What I was trying to achieve was to see how that perception is basically molded...I'm sure that the forummers here are quite aware about the current international scene on this issue.

This thread is slowly becoming more and more of a "bash fest"....sad lah.

[ Last edited by WinterNights on 17-2-2004 at 01:40 AM ]

Debmey · Post time 17-2-2004 09:21 AM

Then why have any resolution at all when there is no threat of force?

The war is over man, its time to move on. and in case yu don't realise it, the world isn't run out pf that round table at the UN through countries like France, Syria, Chile and Namibia.