The War Crimes of the Palestinians

This thread is abt the crimes of Palestinians

You can't exonerate some of IDF's atrocities in Palestine. Not long ago, a school girl is shot by the IDF. What threat was she in Nablus on her way to school?

Dembey,

Israelis need to protect themselves against terrorists don't they? they dohave legitimate security reasons

If the wall is built along their border nobody could make much fuss over it. If their walls cut through TOWNS and FARMS what do you call that?

A good look at the pictures taken from satellite clearly showed Palestinian settlements are being engulfed by the walls. No different from concentration camp. It's like treating them like animal.

ariya,

The anology of being at gun point threat aptly suits the Israelis plight when they are cornered by surrounding Arabs with no where to go. Back in Europe they are heavily persecuted. In Middle East, they receive the same treatment. Surely, they have nowhere to go but only fight back.

The only thing is being asked was there are already 22 Arab states and they have 10% of of the planet's dry land and also they have 80% of the planet's oil and gas reserves. Yet they still haven't make good use of the land.

Jews only have 1 state in the world. Only 1. They made the most of every centimetre of their land. Look at Negev. You can't believe it was desert before. It's so green.

Nobody is stealing anybody's land. Both the Jews & Arabs migrate to Palestine in large numbers. That is one fact you cannot deny although Arabs have always been the majority.

p/s: welcome to the board

Admiral CH

West bank and Gaza belongs to Jordan and Egypt,(not to sure which is which, but definite is the two)

West Bank belonged to The Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan. Britain established a Transjordanian army, the most famous Arab Legion. When Britain ended its mandate west of the River Jordan, the Arab Legion crossed the river & occupied Palestine and rename it "West Bank".

Gaza strip belonged to Egypt.

ariya the buddhist,

they will smash the person's head to pices and still keep on wacking off its body still he will not be satisfied

Have you seen pictures of Jews getting their head ripped off whilst the Palestinians are parading with their intestines & brains?

Let's be fair. It is done by both sides of the fence.

ariya aka General Tan,

I wish to see Israeli PM Ariel Sharon in the war crimes tribunal

So do Arafat.

Why did Hitler hate the Jewish at the very first place??? He blammed them for the economic downturn in Germany during that time in which he was locked away

Isn't that abit crass generalisation? Isn't it got to do with unfair Versailles Treaty? Isn't it got to do with huge amount of reparations to be paid to the victorious nations? Perhaps you ought to acknowledge that Hitler intended to incite anti-Jewish sentiments back then. And Germany today says "Never Again"

ariya,

Yes, I support your this statement, but who started it first????

You call yourself a Buddhist but you're like insinuating for a tit-for-tat justification concept as right. It doesn't matter who started it first in this context. The focus is on the target. Terrorists explode a bus load of toddler and innocent people in the street while the IDF is hunting down terrorist factions in the Palestinian territory made as buffer zone since 1965. No doubt IDF do shot dead innocent civilians in their operation to eradicate terrorist leaders but there is no excuse should be made to justify INDISCRIMINATE killings!

Also, if you want to hit, hit on those who plant the bombs, why hit on their children or their family or even those who have no relations with them but only they are of the same people??? Why put bullets in a baby's head??? Why????

As far as I know, IDF is the only army in the world regulated & controlled by the UN and US. They have tribunals & law in the Knesset for those who commits atrocities. Nobody goes scot-free if they are guilty.

sonny,

nonetheless israeli PALESTINIAN conflict wouldnt arise if donkey un takes into account the population ratio of PALESTINE before they divided it so that israel can exist

It doesn't matter who is the majority. The point is that Jews are persecuted and there must be a solution. The UN have no choice but to split it into 2. Do you suggests that Jews must be incorporated into Palestine anyhow when they are persecuted by the Arab League? If both are not agreeable, how do they form parliament? If Palestine is not divided, perhaps Jews would have overrun ALL of Palestine as theirs isn't it?

When the United Nations (UN) General Assembly approved in 1947 a new partition plan, 749,000 Arabs and 9,250 Jews lived in the territory where the proposed Arab state would be set up

Arthur Balfour's idea of a "national home" for the Jews was never about creating Israel. Just like we the Malaysian Chinese national home is Malaysia. The British promised to respect the rights of non-Jews in the area, and to allow Arab leaders to have their own independent states just like Kurds have their own autonomy in Iraq, the Catalans have their own autonomy in Spain and French have theirs in Canada. But never was intended to SPLIT it into separate states but of a united nation instead.

The misunderstanding was that the Arabs thought Palestine was to be independent Arab state, which was not what the British intended.

sonny~~

Originally posted by Adm_Cheng_Ho at 2004-3-14 05:32 PM:
sonny,



Arab Palestinians commits terrorism not because they are oppressed by the Israelis. They are being used as pawns by their surrounding Arab brethrens to continue exerting the destruction of Israel.

u're mistaken.  PALESTINIANS indeed r oppressed lot.  otherwise their homes would not have been destroyed n their children murdered by israelis in the pretext of eliminatin PALESTINIAN militants.  otherwise israel would not have built 200 illegal jewish settlements n erect 800 kilo apartheid wall 6 kilo deep inside the occupied PALESTINIAN territories.  if u dont take that as israeli oppression of PALESTINIANS, wot u call that then?

It is clearly evident they are reluctant to accept a Jewish neighbour by attacking the newly born Israel on the very day of its proclamation by 5 surrounding Arab neighbours.

PALESTINIANS back by arabs attack israel all bcoz un didnt take into account the 1000000000 PALESTINIANS aginst 500000 jews when they wanna divide PALESTINE so that israel can exist.  the PALESTINIANS knew they gonna be raped on the israel side of PALESTINE n they did get rape merciless

Each time they lost. Israel chase them back to where they came from. It would be dimwit to retreat all the way back to their border to allow the Arabs to re-launch new attacks.

PALESTINIANS n arabs lost the war cos israel has superpower usa to feed em with billions worth of arms to genocide the PALESTINIANS

Thus, Israel refuse to retreat to their border but to use it as negotiation chip for peace.

there u have it.  the occupied PALESTINIAN territories r meant to be negotition chip for peace right?  not for buildin 200 illegal jewish settlements n erectin 800 kilo apartheid wall right?

Israel had shown their willingness to retreat back if peace is achievable like the one we've seen of Sinai Peninsula, a large chunk of land which is rich in oil & other resources such as Suez Canal for trade route, lucrative tax revenue & water is given back to Egypt once peace accord is achieved.

israelis r crafty sly lot.  they know they couldnt genocide all arab nations.  hence they let go to egypt but continue rapin PALESTINE

There is no denying both sides commits atrocities. We cannot totally leave out another culprit which is just as guilty.

the HARDfact remains the jews started the atrocity first when they use zionism n holocaust to rape PALESTINE merciless

What you describe here is not called discrimination but persecution! If Palestinians are persecuted & fiercely discriminated against then why are they still travelling to Israel by bus to work? How many Palestinians enjoyed the economies generated along Israel's border? The fact is they are safe & are gracious having jobs IN and AROUND Israel. The situation does not tally with what was being described here. Far from it.

as me said israelis r crafty sly lot.  they turn goody goody when it deem fit.  but if u analyze carefully n if the israelis r honestly sincerely honourable people, there wouldnt be millions of PALESTINIAN refugees, there wouldnt be 200 illegal jewish settlements in the occupied PALESTINIAN territories, there wouldnt the genocide of PALESTINIAN babies n women along with hamas.  right?  

peace

ariyamusafir

Originally posted by Adm_Cheng_Ho at 14-3-2004 18:42:
ariya,



You call yourself a Buddhist but you're like insinuating for a tit-for-tat justification concept as right. It doesn't matter who started it first in this context. The focus is on the  ...

No I am not!! You see, Dr. M and I believe that in order for us to resolve something such as firhgting terrorism, we must find out the root cause and eliminate the root cause. When the root cause have been identified, than we can get rid of the problem So you see, we know why there are terrorism. We know why the Palestinians parade over the so called with intestine and the so. What I want to see achieve is that those, all of them stop!! Not tit for tat or what. All must stop, Killings must stop. In order for there all to stop, the root or the cause must first stop. If I can control everything, I can stop first no problem with that. However, the world with people is such that only once the root or cause ceases then only they will cease, otherwise, they would not want to. Likewise, the cause do not wish to stop, and others also do not wish to stop so it goes, the never ending war. Israel and the US must stop their aggressions on the Palestinians and muslims first. Once US and Israel, does their parts, I dare to say(just prediction) that at least 60% of the International Terrorist organisation will cease to cause terror. That, of course remains only my views but with my analysis of the world today, with what is really happening, with what that has happened in the past, I have a little more confidence to say so.

The Buddha teaches us all never to hate, never to kill. I had not kill a fellow human being before. However, my dislike due to injustice done has grown a lot. Sorry for I am still not perfect, nor near perfect.

[ Last edited by ariyamusafir on 20-3-2004 at 05:47 PM ]

ariyamusafir

Originally posted by sonny~~ at 20-3-2004 12:56:


u're mistaken.  PALESTINIANS indeed r oppressed lot.  otherwise their homes would not have been destroyed n their children murdered by israelis in the pretext of eliminatin PALESTINIAN  ...

I agree with sonny~~

hi sonny,

Let's further on our discussion & understanding on this issue. Before I continue, I hope I'm not perceived as standing by Israel alone. I seek to get differing views from both sides of the fence. Seldom do I encounter fair & balanced view.

On this discussion, I'd like to see how far can you go to convince me that Israel is solely to blame as justification for Palestinian to resort to terrorisms.

1) As far as I know, Palestinians receive similar oppression and discrimination elsewhere in the Arab world. Syria, Jordan, Iraq, Kuwait... also.

Take Jordan alone, the ill-treament of Palestinian refugees and Palestinian Jordanian are well-known that a UN Resolution and many frameworks had to be meted out. I'm sure this issue didn't miss your awareness if you're standing by moral highground which you use in Israel-Palestine issue. The Hashemites are outnumbered in Jordan by the Palestinian people. Though are fellow countrymen (excluding Palestinian refugees), Palestinian Jordanian do not have fair employment rights and property rights. They are 2nd class citizens.

In comparison with Israel, Israeli Arabs are of equal rights with the Jews although some form of restrictions are imposed similar to our Malaysian Malay Privilege on certain matters. However, on both countries the minorities are living well without disgruntle and are happily in peace. We see many Arabs representing Israel in soccer representing their beloved country. They are not compulsory to join the army as opposed to the Jews which is a must but they voluntarily join the army to protect their beloved country from surrounding Arab barbarity of terrorisms. Moreover, Israel provided jobs to neighbouring Palestine who travels by bus in the throng daily. Palestinians also benefitted economies generated by Jewish communities in Palestine. Recent outcry by Palestinian against Sharon's move to dismantle Jewish towns in Palestine is readily attested. No need further explanation.

Palestinians are sent packing back to refugee camps by governments of Iraq and Kuwait. The list just goes on and on. My years of acquaintances with Israeli Jews and Israeli Arabs gave me favourable accounts of equality in Israel and their perception and treatment of Palestine. That is my core belief that certain reports are embellish to reflect anti-Israel sentiments which is not true.

Thus, I don't believe oppression is the driving force in their indiscriminate killings of innocent peoples in the street and busload of toddlers going to school.

2) I do condemn illegal settlements of Jews in Palestinian territory. That is why we must support Sharon's risky move. He risked losing supports of his cabinet members and people.

3) I agree with you again that the partition wall is uncalled for. I have no issue if it is built along its own borders like Saudi Arabia on Yemen, but to cut acroos towns and farms is hardly any moral justifications. Not even Jews themselves find it feasible as if the Palestinians are animals within concentration camps.

4) The attack by surrounding Arab countries are not because UN is not taking into account who is majority. You MUST understand this issue well. Palestine is divided because of ongoing Arab hostilities against Jewish people. That is the main factor of dividing Palestine. If majority is the calling shot, then should Iraq be given to Shiites instead of the Sunnis? The answer is no. You can easily find this predicament elsewhere in history.

5) If the USA didn't supported Israel, Arabs would have push them into the sea. Why is the USA is not justified to support Israel while the overwhelming Arabs are justified to push the Jews into the sea?

6) On Egypt, it seems to me you're refusing to acknowledge Egypt accepted peace while Syria and Jordan refuse.

7)

the HARDfact remains the jews started the atrocity first when they use zionism n holocaust to rape PALESTINE merciless

Arab League was formed to counter Zionist movement. From then on, Palestine's Arabs are hostile towards not only incoming Jews but also to their local fellow Palestinian of Jewish descent. It seems to me you have forgotten that by 1948, majority of Palestinian Muslim Arabs are also immigrants. Mathematical calculations showed 800% surge from 1882-1948.

8)

if u analyze carefully n if the israelis r honestly sincerely honourable people, there wouldnt be millions of PALESTINIAN refugees

Palestinian refugees are a result of Arab-Israeli conflicts not wanted by the Palestinian people themselves. Arabs refuse to commit to peace after their aggressions on Israel. If Israel were to retreat BACK, then the Arabs have nothing to lose but to start the whole thing again.

But, that was in the past where Palestine have no say in the UN over the resolutions. Today the right is given to Palestine by the USA. Israel under Sharon had made his move. Now it is up to Arafat to make reciprocal move to ensure Palestine is formed for the FIRST TIME in history of mankind.

Israel and the US must stop their aggressions on the Palestinians and muslims first

So, who started the war with Israel? Is defending Israel a form of aggression toward Palestinian & muslim people? How about telling me Arabs support and funding of terrorist factions a form of non-aggression toward Israeli people? If Israel wanted aggressions, they would have killed MILLIONS of peoples just like Sudan! Simpleton!

Once US and Israel, does their parts, I dare to say(just prediction) that at least 60% of the International Terrorist organisation will cease to cause terror

Then how do you explain Intifada when peace process was on the verge of fruition? Don't ask me when intifada started and what was the reasons.

Surely, nobody would make justifications on behalf of terrorists who commits blind atrocities on innocent peoples and children. You're the one. If that is justified in your eyes, then you're not a true buddhist I'm afraid. You're a muslim clone.

ariyamusafir

Originally posted by Adm_Cheng_Ho at 20-3-2004 23:10:


So, who started the war with Israel? Is defending Israel a form of aggression toward Palestinian & muslim people? How about telling me Arabs support and funding of terrorist factions a form ...

Watch your filthy mouth. I did not claim that the terrorist are right. Never did I claim so. What I am trying to say is that, justice must be done. Watch your mouth on that insult on me. As I have said, I am far from near perfect but I want to see justice done. I did not say, they are right. I just tell you who is the source of the troubles of terrorism and until they cease, the problem will not be solved. Until US changes its policies, otherwise, there will bound to have violence again and again.

That is why now I call you stupid!!!! You did not read what I have to say Fully. You misread what I want to say. All of them are wrong. Terrorist are wrong, The US and Israel are also in the wrong. For the whole thing to stop, the source of the whole problem must cease!!! Then only there will arise no further problems. US and Israel, I identified as the source!!! Get it??????????

[ Last edited by ariyamusafir on 21-3-2004 at 03:07 AM ]

ariyamusafir

Originally posted by Adm_Cheng_Ho at 20-3-2004 23:10:


So, who started the war with Israel? Is defending Israel a form of aggression toward Palestinian & muslim people? How about telling me Arabs support and funding of terrorist factions a form ...

Both of us are from Johor!!! Yet you insulted me this way. I am still far from perfect and you too are far from that either, so please stop insulting on others, for their faith. I know that we share the same faith. I am not saying that Terrorist are all correct and the others are wrong, no, but I am pointing the source that must cease first in order for others to cease. Get it???? This case, US and Israel must cease before the rest will want to cease.

[ Last edited by ariyamusafir on 21-3-2004 at 03:08 AM ]

fellow johorian ariya,

I did not insult you. That is up to your perception. It's all in the head.

In case you didn't know, the Roadmap proposed by the USA stated:

-> Israel is required to ease restrictions on Palestinians, freeze settlement expansion in the Palestinian territories & dismantle unauthorised outpost under the terms of a US-backed peace plan for the Middle East.

->Palestinians are required to disband militant factions. 1 only.

Ariel Sharon had dismantled a few Jewish settlements in Gaza. More to come over at West Bank. Uptil now, I have yet to see any move by Palestine to quash militants and terrorist groups. These are radicals that jeopardises each and every peace processes before. It is of utmost importance that they reciprocate by disbanding and crack down on extremists the same like Pakistan did.

As Buddhist, you should know "yuan yuan xiang bao he shi liao". Most Buddhist are Chinese in Malaysia. Seldom do I see Indians believe in Buddhism although it originated from there. So, if you're Chinese and Buddhist you should know this principle very well.

p/s: perhaps you need a special way to communicate so as not to hurt your delicate heart.

ariyamusafir

Originally posted by Adm_Cheng_Ho at 21-3-2004 04:03:
fellow johorian ariya,

I did not insult you. That is up to your perception. It's all in the head.

In case you didn't know, the Roadmap proposed by the USA stated:

-> Israel is required  ...

Well this is what you said:

If that is justified in your eyes, then you're not a true buddhist I'm afraid. You're a muslim clone.

How do you expect me to respond to that???

AS, I have said, what I want is justice done, not people killed. US launced illigitimate war on a soverign nation and lied to the wold that this nation possess WMD but never did they find it till date. They breached Geneva Convention in their detention of Afghan POWs, they knowingly allowed their allies in Afghanistan to mass murder defenceless POWs held in a container under the hot sun without food or water. How do you explain that???? They refuses to ratify the War crimes tribunal unless their forces outside America is imune to it. In other words, they can commit war crimes while others cannot. Is that fair in a judicial system. How about if, we Chinese in Malaysia are being treated with the same law as that?? Sure you will disagree with that and it is good to know that we are not being subjected to bias and unjust laws. The only difference is that in Malaysia, muslims are treated under the Syariah laws while we are with the civil laws.

Yes you are right, I am a chinese.

The thing is US is poking her nose everywhere, even at places they are not welcome at all. Have you read this article. I will quote below again. Us intended to invade Arab States during the 80's is the Arab states do not cease their embargo of theirown resources, that is their oil to them. What is that. I do not want to give you my things and you want to hit me???? That is the concept.

Can't you see it, the world now is being re-coloniased again. The term is called, neo-colonialism. The colonialism this time is no longer direct where, I come and hit you. It is, you as a soverign state work under my orders and you will be alright. GO against me and I will take over your country or change the leader who is willing to cooperate with me, without giving me trouble. This is what certain government is doing right now. They have become too strong that they now show their greed.

ariyamusafir

I will repeat here again as many do not read!!!

[quote]

The Star

eCentral - Your Entertainment Guide
http://www.star-ecentral.com


*****************************************************************
This message was forwarded to you by ariyamusafir@mystar.com.my.

Comment from sender:


This article is from thestar.com.my
URL: http://thestar.com.my/news/story ... slaws&sec=world

__________________________________________________________________________

Wednesday, March 26, 2003
Only one rule for the US

ariyamusafir

Read the whole thing first please!!!

sonny~~

Originally posted by Adm_Cheng_Ho at 2004-3-14 05:42 PM:
Salman, hi,


And the Arabs sought to wipe out Israeli Jews by pushing them into the sea. That is how Israel is born. Balfour/British/UN never intended to create a separated states of Israel & Palestine. The documents of Balfour & British government on this account still stands. That is NOT their intention. It was because of continuing Arab hostilities that prompted UN to vote for a divided Palestine.

wrong.  israel is born thru un dividin PALESTINE.  arabs may wanna push israel jews into the sea.  on the other hand, the jews wanna genocide PALESTINIANS like wot white americans did to american indians. read

"There is no such thing as a Palestinian people... It is not as if we came and threw them out and took their country. They didn't exist." -- Golda Meir Statement to The Sunday Times, 15 June, 1969.   

"It's not a matter of maintaining the status quo. We have to create a dynamic state, oriented towards expansion." --Ben Gurion

"Take the American declaration of Independence. It contains no mention of territorial limits. We are not obliged to fix the limits of the State." -- Moshe Dayan, "Jerusalem Post" 08/10/1967

balfour/british/un may not intend to create israel n PALESTINE.  but the forked tongue promises by britain backed by zionism n holocaust n usa/europe’s “fear” of the jews n un’s impotency have forced the PALESTINIANS to fight for their rights.  many nations precisely europe refused to accept jewish refugees fleeing nazi persecution.  hence they (britain/zionism/usa/europe/un) made PALESTINE the “scapegoat”.  

bear in mind in 1914 with the outbreak of ww1, britain promised the independence of arab lands under ottoman rule, including PALESTINE, in return for arab support against turkey which had entered the war on the side of germany. in 1916 britain and france signed the sykes-picot agreement, which divided the arab region into zones of influence. lebanon and syria were assigned to france, jordan and iraq to britain and PALESTINE was to be internationalized.  this is colonialization of the worst kind despite arabs nationalism aspiration.  but the world overlooked that.  they only c jews nationalism not PALESTINIAN nationalism.  

then the british government issued the balfour declaration in 1917, in the form of a letter to british zionist leader from the foreign secretary Arthur J. Balfour: “His Majesty's government view with favour the establishment IN PALESTINE of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavors to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of the existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country…

if PALESTINE has not been populated, the establishment of a jewish state could have occurred easily. However, PALESTINE was the home of thousands of arabs.  there 1000000000 PALESTINIANS aginst 500000 jews in PALESTINE.  when isral is born thru un’s grace, the rest is history

Just like today's Iraqi parliamentary constitution. The Wests sought a parliament that consists of various races (Turkmen, Kurds, Shiites, Sunnis & Christians) & each of them granted rights. However, if Sunnis continue to wage atrocities & hostilities toward Shiites & Kurds, perhaps Iraq would suffer the same fate as Palestine of being divided into separate states.

the world should know its wrong for usa to force democracy in iraq.  hence wotever the outcome in iraq, the blame lies totally on un impotency n us terrorism aginst arab nations.  exactly that’s wot happenin in PALESTINE  

peace

[ Last edited by sonny~~ on 22-3-2004 at 09:05 AM ]