Matthew 5:20

eastrun

Jesus said

" For I say unto you , That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the Scribes and Pharisees, ye shall no case enter into the kingdom of heaven"

Casejulia, Pony Tail Hair...I am asking...you believe there will be a salvation from Jesus. If the salvation is true, why does Jesus uttered such word?....Since those who believes in Jesus as Lord will get into heaven, then why now he said you cannot get into heaven if your righteousness is not as good as those Pharisees and scribes?.

One thing I want to know is why did you deleted my opinion about Jesus the sons of incest?. Afraid to tell the truth?. About a father in law prohibited with his daughter in law, produced sons of incest and they are honored to be great grand fathes of Jesus Christ (Matthew 1:1)

I don't know why you to decrease my credit, cos all these are just my opinions....

Truth.8

Originally posted by eastrun at 10-6-2006 09:23 AM
Jesus said

" For I say unto you , That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the Scribes and Pharisees, ye shall no case enter into the kingdom of heaven"

Case ...

many of my topic was deleted when i counter attacked the koran, muhammad and hadith in Muslims forum because they afraid of truth.

so, dont make noise here.

sparrow

well.. to understand why Jesus said that, you must first read and understand how the Pharisees and scribes are described in the Bible.

Read all those accounts of the Pharisees and the scribes in the Bible. You will find that the they are the religious people in the days of Jesus.. they are religious people holding to the Jewish law. Yet, religious as they are - they do not  believe in Jesus. In fact, they are the people who opposes Jesus in public.

In Christianity, we believe that salvation comes through Jesus, and righteousness  are credited to us who believes that Jesus Christ as Lord. As Romans 3:22 says: This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe.

As the Pharisees and the scribes rejected Jesus Christ as Lord, they do not have this righteousness from God. In fact, read Matthew chapter 23 to see how Jesus described them.

In other words, the Pharisees (ie, the teachers of the law) are people who appear righteous in public, but are not at all righteous in their hearts.

[ Last edited by  sparrow at 10-6-2006 05:06 PM ]

eastrun

Originally posted by sparrow at 10-6-2006 04:20 PM
well.. to understand why Jesus said that, you must first read and understand how the Pharisees and scribes are described in the Bible.

Read all those accounts of the Pharisees and the scribes in ...

You said....

In other words, the Pharisees (ie, the teachers of the law) are people who appear righteous in public, but are not at all righteous in their hearts.

If your statements are true, then why did Jesus said if no one has a righteousness like the Scribes and Pharisees, he or she shall not get into heaven. You condemn the Pharisees and Scribes righteousness, but Jesus didn't. You got to have a righteousness of the Scribes and Pharisees, because by having such righteousness, you can get into heaven.

sparrow

Originally posted by eastrun at 12-6-2006 03:56 PM


You said....

In other words, the Pharisees (ie, the teachers of the law) are people who appear righteous in public, but are not at all righteous in their hearts.

If your statements are t ...

Read again Matthew 5:20. Jesus never said righteousness like the Scribes and Pharisees.

Jesus said
" For I say unto you , That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the Scribes and Pharisees, ye shall no case enter into the kingdom of heaven"

And where does this righteousness comes from? This righteousness comes from God though Jesus Christ HIMSELF.. not from ourselves.
Romans 3:22 says: This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe.

And who says Jesus never condemned the Pharisees' "righteousness"? Did you read Matthew chapter 23 like I asked you to?
Read Matthew 23 here: http://www.biblegateway.com/pass ... 2023&version=31
Read especially verses 13 to 33... and see how Jesus addressed them.

[ Last edited by  sparrow at 13-6-2006 09:38 AM ]

13Friday

self righteousness and holy righteousness

eastrun

Originally posted by sparrow at 12-6-2006 05:14 PM


Read again Matthew 5:20. Jesus never said righteousness like the Scribes and Pharisees.

Jesus said
" For I say unto you , That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness  ...

Thart day you said that Jesus condemned the righteousness of the Scribes and Pharisees. Since the righteousness of the Scribes and Pharisees is so unacceptable in the eyes of Jesus, then why suddenly he asked us to get the righteousness more than the righteousness of the Scribes and Pharisees?.

The statements make we think that actually the righteousness of the Scribes and Pharisees is so special...So, actually Jesus didn't condemned the righteousness of the Scribes and Pharisees...

Ok...since you say your righteousness shall exceeds the righteousness of the Scribes and Pharisees, I am sure your righteousness won't. Because, Christians actually not really follow the commandments and laws of God.Look...they eat pig or swine...see Leviticus chapter 11 verse 8.

sparrow

Before I go any further, did you read Matthew 23 like I told you to?

eastrun

I have read the Matthew 23...I have a Bible at home. It is King James Version and Indonesian Bible.like I said before...why suddenly after Jesus condemned the righteousness of Pharisees and Scribes, he asked we to get higher righteousness than them?. Yes...in the eyes of Jesus, the righteousness of Pharisees and Scribes is unacceptable( Like I mentioned before).

At time he condemned, another time he asked to get higher level of righteousness....Is it contradiction?

sparrow

You know.. 13Friday did not put his remark up there for no reason. He requested that when we differentiate between the two: self righteousness and true righteousness. (or what 13Friday says, holy righteousness.. because this kind of true righteousness only comes from God Himself)..I think you should be able to understand the two terms.

Self righteousness is the kind of righteousness that we convince and justify ourselves of.. usually through outward actions. It is not the kind of righteousness that God credits to us.. it is the kind of righteousness we think of ourselves. If you read through Matthew 5:20.. and Matthew 23, you will find the type of righteousness of the Pharisees.. which was described by Jesus.. fall in to this category of  self righteousness. The Pharisees think of themselves as righteous because of all the things they do and show to others.

But is that kind of righteousness from God? As Matthew 23 puts it.. it is not. It is only what Pharisees think of themselves. God on the other hand, does not think of them as righteous.

And that is where many of us, even Christians, go wrong. A lot of us thinks that we can be good and righteous by doing this, doing that.. obeying this law, practising that law, etc.

As Romans 3:22 says: This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. True righteousness.. (or what 13Friday calls holy righteousness) only comes from God Himself.. through believing in the Lord Jesus Christ. Now, if you read through the gospels.. the Pharisees do not believe in Jesus.. (in fact, they oppose and blaspheme Jesus in public..).. so clearly, they do not have this holy righteousness from God.

Now how do we exceed the righteousness of the Pharisees? Well.. if we go by self righteousness.. we'll never exceed the Pharisees' righteousness. The only way that we can exceed the Pharisees' righteousness... is by obtaining true righteousness from God.. which is by believing in the Lord Jesus Christ. Not by what we do.. but by just believing in the Lord Jesus Christ.

For Romans 3:22 says: This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe.

[ Last edited by  sparrow at 13-6-2006 09:37 AM ]

eastrun

Originally posted by sparrow at 13-6-2006 09:30 AM
You know.. 13Friday did not put his remark up there for no reason. He requested that when we differentiate between the two: self righteousness and true righteousness. (or what 13Friday says, holy r ...

You are not ansewring my questions...read my questions again...I asked why Jesus make two different statements about the righteousness of the Scribes and Pharisees?. He put the righteousness of the Pharisees and Scribes on the level that by exceed the level, you shall get into the kingdom of heaven.

Since the Pharisees and the Scribes never wanted to except Jesus as Lord, then Jesus should not put the righteousness of the Scribes and Pharisees at that level. After you dah kutuk banyak - banyak, now you nak puji pula keimanan orang itu..

sparrow

When did Jesus ever "puji" the Pharisees' righteousness?

Jesus said:
" For I say unto you , That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the Scribes and Pharisees, ye shall no case enter into the kingdom of heaven"

Put it in a blunt way.. what Jesus said actually means.. Unless your righteousness exceeds the Pharisees' righteousness..  you will not enter the kingdom of heaven. So what does that mean? It means that, the Pharisees righteousness.. amounts to NOTHING! The Pharisees' righteousness are NOTHING in the eyes of God! Think about it.. what good is the self reighteousness of the Pharisees if it is not going to get them to heaven? It amounts to nothing!

It is not contradictory to Matthew 23. In fact, it is in line with it.

[ Last edited by  sparrow at 13-6-2006 10:04 AM ]

casejulia

Jesus labelled the Pharisees as HYOPCRITES & BLIND GUIDES


Matthew 23:1-33
Seven Woes

1-Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples:
2-"The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat.
3-So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.
4-They tie up heavy loads and put them on men's shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.
5-"Everything they do is done for men to see: They make their phylacteries wide and the tassels on their garments long;
6-they love the place of honor at banquets and the most important seats in the synagogues;
7-they love to be greeted in the marketplaces and to have men call them 'Rabbi.'
8-"But you are not to be called 'Rabbi,' for you have only one Master and you are all brothers.
9-And do not call anyone on earth 'father,' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.
10-Nor are you to be called 'teacher,' for you have one Teacher, the Christ
11-The greatest among you will be your servant.
12-For whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.

13-"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the kingdom of heaven in men's faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.

15-"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are.

16-"Woe to you, blind guides! You say, 'If anyone swears by the temple, it means nothing; but if anyone swears by the gold of the temple, he is bound by his oath.' 17You blind fools! Which is greater: the gold, or the temple that makes the gold sacred? 18You also say, 'If anyone swears by the altar, it means nothing; but if anyone swears by the gift on it, he is bound by his oath.' 19You blind men! Which is greater: the gift, or the altar that makes the gift sacred? 20Therefore, he who swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it. 21And he who swears by the temple swears by it and by the one who dwells in it. 22And he who swears by heaven swears by God's throne and by the one who sits on it.

23-"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices梞int, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law梛ustice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former. 24-You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.

25-"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. 26-Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean.

27-"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of dead men's bones and everything unclean. 28-In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.

29-"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the graves of the righteous. 30-And you say, 'If we had lived in the days of our forefathers, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.' 31-So you testify against yourselves that you are the descendants of those who murdered the prophets. 32-Fill up, then, the measure of the sin of your forefathers!

33-"You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell? 34-Therefore I am sending you prophets and wise men and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town. 35-And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36-I tell you the truth, all this will come upon this generation.

[ Last edited by  casejulia at 13-6-2006 11:38 PM ]

casejulia

Matthew 16:6
"Be careful," Jesus said to them. "Be on your guard against the yeast of the Pharisees and Sadducees."

Matthew 15:9-8
These people honor me with their lips,
but their hearts are far from me.
They worship me in vain;
their teachings are but rules taught by men

The Pharisees seems to be so Righteous cos' they teaches the Law but they themself dont put it into  practice!
they heart are not righteous at all
that's why Jesus said "your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the Scribes and Pharisees".
means your heart must righteous too. not only your appearence and action

Luke 18:9-4
To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everybody else, Jesus told this parable:
"Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector.
The Pharisee stood up and prayed about himself: 'God, I thank you that I am not like other men梤obbers, evildoers, adulterers梠r even like this tax collector.
I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.'
"But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, 'God, have mercy on me, a sinner.'
"I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted."

[ Last edited by  casejulia at 14-6-2006 11:59 PM ]

casejulia

Let us study more about these Pharisees:
-they always find other's faults but they themself done many faults!
-They have a wicked mind
-They plotted to kill Jesus


Mark 2:16-17
While Jesus was having dinner at Levi's house, many tax collectors and "sinners" were eating with him and his disciples, for there were many who followed him.
When the teachers of the law who were Pharisees saw him eating with the "sinners" and tax collectors, they asked his disciples: "Why does he eat with tax collectors and 'sinners'?"
On hearing this, Jesus said to them, "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners."

mark 2:23-28
One Sabbath Jesus was going through the grainfields, and as his disciples walked along, they began to pick some heads of grain.
The Pharisees said to him, "Look, why are they doing what is unlawful on the Sabbath?"
He answered, "Have you never read what David did when he and his companions were hungry and in need?
In the days of Abiathar the high priest, he entered the house of God and ate the consecrated bread, which is lawful only for priests to eat. And he also gave some to his companions."
Then he said to them, "The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.
So the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath."

Matthew 12:9-14
Going on from that place, he went into their synagogue,
and a man with a shriveled hand was there. Looking for a reason to accuse Jesus, they(The Pharissees) asked him, "Is it lawful to heal on the Sabbath?"
He said to them, "If any of you has a sheep and it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will you not take hold of it and lift it out?How much more valuable is a man than a sheep! Therefore it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath."
Then he said to the man, "Stretch out your hand." So he stretched it out and it was completely restored, just as sound as the other.
But the Pharisees went out and plotted how they might kill Jesus.

Matthew 12:22-28
Then they brought him a demon-possessed man who was blind and mute, and Jesus healed him, so that he could both talk and see.
All the people were astonished and said, "Could this be the Son of David?"
But when the Pharisees heard this, they said, "It is only by Beelzebub, the prince of demons, that this fellow drives out demons."
Jesus knew their thoughts and said to them, "Every kingdom divided against itself will be ruined, and every city or household divided against itself will not stand.
If Satan drives out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then can his kingdom stand?
And if I drive out demons by Beelzebub, by whom do your people drive them out? So then, they will be your judges.
But if I drive out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you

Matthew 15:1-6
Then some Pharisees and teachers of the law came to Jesus from Jerusalem and asked,
"Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? They don't wash their hands before they eat!"
Jesus replied, "And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition?
For God said, 'Honor your father and mother'and 'Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death".
But you say that if a man says to his father or mother, 'Whatever help you might otherwise have received from me is a gift devoted to God,'
she is not to 'honor his father' with it. Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition

Matthew 16:1-4
The Pharisees and Sadducees came to Jesus and tested him by asking him to show them a sign from heaven.
He replied, "When evening comes, you say, 'It will be fair weather, for the sky is red,'
and in the morning, 'Today it will be stormy, for the sky is red and overcast.' You know how to interpret the appearance of the sky, but you cannot interpret the signs of the times.
A wicked and adulterous generation looks for a miraculous sign, but none will be given it except the sign of Jonah." Jesus then left them and went away

Matthew 19:3-9
Some Pharisees came to him to test him. They asked, "Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any and every reason?"
"Haven't you read," he replied, "that at the beginning the Creator 'made them male and female,'
and said, 'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh'?
So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate."
"Why then," they asked, "did Moses command that a man give his wife a certificate of divorce and send her away?"
Jesus replied, "Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning.
I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery."

Matthew 22:15-21
Then the Pharisees went out and laid plans to trap him in his words.
They sent their disciples to him along with the Herodians. "Teacher," they said, "we know you are a man of integrity and that you teach the way of God in accordance with the truth. You aren't swayed by men, because you pay no attention to who they are.
Tell us then, what is your opinion? Is it right to pay taxes to Caesar or not?"
But Jesus, knowing their evil intent, said, "You hypocrites, why are you trying to trap me?
Show me the coin used for paying the tax." They brought him a denarius,
and he asked them, "Whose portrait is this? And whose inscription?"
"Caesar's," they replied. Then he said to them, "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's."

[ Last edited by  casejulia at 14-6-2006 12:41 AM ]

sparrow

I thought we have told you a few times. This is not the place for you to post matters relating to other religion. I know you are just sharing.. but you should do so in the relevant forum. Look, there is a forum here in Cari for Muslim and Muslimat matters, for your Qur'an etc. Why don't you just post it there? That is the main reason, why we have different forums for different faiths. We will go to the relevant forum if we want to read/know about it.

Thank you.

To all the other forumers: please bear in mind that these postings by our friend. eastrun, are not from the Bible... so do not let it confuse you about the Bible.
Thanks.

eastrun

Originally posted by sparrow at 14-6-2006 11:48 AM
I thought we have told you a few times. This is not the place for you to post matters relating to other religion. I know you are just sharing.. but you should do so in the relevant forum. Look, the ...

Look at your statements above...you asked the forumers to be careful....WHY?...Because what are stated in the Quran are almost the same with have been written in the Bible about Jesus Christ. How can it be?...because those books came from same source..the source that had chosen genuine persons to recieve His revelations.The prophets....so what is wrong with you to accept that Muhammad as a prophet, since he alse received what your prophets got.

There is a verse in the Quran thet rejected about the faith of the Pharisees and Scribes:

"We gave Moses the boo and followed him up with a succession of Apostles, We gave Jesus son of Mary Clear(Signs) and strengthened him with the Holy Spirit. That whenever there comes to you an apostle with what ye yourselves desire not, ye are puffed up with pride?. Some ye called impostors, and others ye slay!" (Surah Al - Baqarah 2:87)

DivinePonytail

Originally posted by eastrun at 19-6-2006 02:23 PM



Look at your statements above...you asked the forumers to be careful....WHY?...Because what are stated in the Quran are almost the same with have been written in the Bible about Jesus Christ. ...

We only believes in Jesus Christ, not Muhammad pbuh.
Deal with it mister.

eastrun

Originally posted by DivinePonytail at 19-6-2006 03:46 PM



We only believes in Jesus Christ, not Muhammad pbuh.
Deal with it mister.   

Then explain to me, why do you reject the final prophet?.When you say the Pharisees and Scribes are useless just because they don't want to believe in Jesus, then what would you call yourself for rejecting the final prophet?.

Give me reasons why do you reject Muhammad...

DivinePonytail

Originally posted by eastrun at 19-6-2006 03:52 PM


Then explain to me, why do you reject the final prophet?.When you say the Pharisees and Scribes are useless just because they don't want to believe in Jesus, then what would you call yourself f ...

There you go, you judge me according to your belief, according to islam. Who is the final prophet in Christianity? Certainly its not Muhammad. :no: I'm saying this again, you're in the wrong place buddy.