Reason/Mind

033589

salam!

anyway...pertaining to my topic..i have something to raise here..

usually when we need to support or strenghten our statement..we tend to quote opinions, ideas, sayings and what not from jurists, prominent writers and etc..soemtimes i do think why are w quoting all those for the purpose of supporting our statement..basically they came out with oipnions, ideas based on their human reasoning..same with us..we have the ability to think logically, but yet why do we need those others' opinions in our statement?? are we do not believe on our own reasoning??mind is its center...mind controls eveything of ourselves..if tjose jurists and etc can come out with their marvellous ideas..so do us..but yet people still insist on proofs...why?

-believe in mind power-

mbhcsf

well not when you are writing ur dissertations. You need to be able to demonstrate the ability to synthesise - compare and contrast and perhaps come out with a new formulated ideas i think. Thsi is Uni level,
If not, u never know what you did good, bad or wrong. and there will be no knowledge expansion etc. if you would base on ur single opinion. Scientific proosition must be back up with evidences, medical field needs plenty of those. If not youjust ended believing that drug a is good but drug be is somewhat bla..bla
In academic world dear, u need to back up your view.Or else people would question ur credibility.

The easiest example, kan semua statment yg berunsurkan agama mesti ada dalil ? so as everything.

033589

i dont have a problem if the purpose if to compare and contrast..yet some tend to have reliance on those ideas....as if it is imitation..

exactly in Islam dalil is a must..yet it is open to interpretation and thats how ijtihad, istishab, istihsan come into pict..those sources are interrelated..

mbhcsf

well it 'll be useful to refute or support the other ideas, so u somehow need to back up ur statement.\Compare and contrast that you 've no prob with is basically helpful in generating new dimesnion in thinking. so you 'd go to another level.If that is teh case ...why not?

well whatif someone said that our idea is  questionable? due to some sort of reason, then ? what happened next? would u objectively review ur idea/ theory or just ... i dunno defending ur own... by having more studies done...either way it's good as well ,kan? so you 'd give choices, some angles on howto look at things but where the line? not too many agles nanti kacau pulak.

Agul

Sometime, we want to persuade others to our view and one of the way is to gain his confidence and trust by quoting others.

Other time, we are affirming ourselves...

They may be an  original thought, that has been thought by others before. Or we may come to know them, and think that it is good. So, we quote.

Agul

If we totally adhere to them strictly, there may be limitation. But the ideas can grow, expand, become better. We can remove the limiter.

my-alja

...gud one to ponder

frankly, i learnt my lesson when i did my thesis a few yrs agoooo ..u cannot quote ur own believe bcos it's not proven yet....so maybe i get carried away....

2nd, it shows a significant point..that you are not alone, emotional support if people dun agree with u ...kekekekek

dutchy

it's not that we are not to sure about our own contribution in live perse that most of us like to quote and unquote famous people
it's just that sometimes all we need is an affirmation that what we are going thru and our thought resonant with someone else

like shakespears and such, there is a lot that we can decipher from all the famous quotes, I find that most of them gives some food for thought and I like to find the deeper meaning of all the quotes

sometimes those quotes gives us strength (when we are feeling down / unsupported by our surrounding)

hamizao

I tend to think that it is also a matter of style. So if you want to quote someone,  he better be someone famous.

Generally, it doesn't bother me if no one else think like me............ Then, my thoughts would be truely and originally mine in my OWN search for knowledge and understanding. Other people's thoughts are good as references but in the end it is my own understanding is what counts.

Agul

Of course there would be repetitious thought. Someone might have thought about it a hundred years ago... and someone will think of it a hundred years in the future...

There might be a thousand men having the same thought, right now...

dan, bagaimana kalau kita 'quote' jiran sebelah rumah kita yang langsug tak terkenal... mesti orang akan... "huh, Pak Mail? Siapa tu?"

hamizao

Yup. You got my drift then.

So, quoting such people might not help your case any more than just using your understanding of the issue and explaining it in your own way/words.

mbhcsf

but akak, would that newly generated thought is a product of synthesising other peoples' thought , ideas, opinions etc? so somehow  you'd need a certain foundation to base / suppot ur ideas jugak , kan?

cam ner tu , akak?

i dunno what to call u by, i always thought akak akak kat sini lebih tua dari i....but if this isn't the case, do excuse me.

hamizao

Akak is fine in a traditional way, mbhcsf. Otherwise, plain Hami would be sufficient........so that we may discuss issues as peers instead.

True, a lot of what we know is synthesised from other people's thoughts. Even thoughts can evolve and change in accordance to time and circumstances. However, some basic thoughts say of core values, may remain. We accept and adopt those that make sense to us and shelve up the others perhaps to be relooked at some other time. Some may even be discarded as inapplicable, inappropriate or even downright erroneous. If you can rationalise issues as you understand it, that should be the aim of all learning. Even philosophers differ in their thoughts.

Mansairaku

Originally posted by 033589 at 17-1-2008 10:10 PM
salam!

anyway...pertaining to my topic..i have something to raise here..

usually when we need to support or strenghten our statement..we tend to quote opinions, ideas, sayings and what not from jurists, prominent writers and etc..soemtimes i do think why are w quoting all those for the purpose of supporting our statement..basically they came out with oipnions, ideas based on their human reasoning..same with us..we have the ability to think logically, but yet why do we need those others' opinions in our statement?? are we do not believe on our own reasoning??mind is its center...mind controls eveything of ourselves..if tjose jurists and etc can come out with their marvellous ideas..so do us..but yet people still insist on proofs...why?

-believe in mind power-

me?
" artificial " intelligence ..

redsinner

i believe we need precedence to double check that our idealogy is not new, just to affirm that what we thought yesterday has been thought 1500 years before.
i also believe that if you over analyse everything on your own u will be what people say "mengaji tanpa guru", hence it will lead u astray and it will be pointless.
people become famous for being an expert in their fields so i do agree that if you wanna be great, follow the lead of the great people. we have to start somewhere.


"I dont wanna be interesting, I just wanna be good" ~ Ludwig Mies van der Rohe (famous architect)

hamizao

Quoting others would also serve as giving due respect to the person(s) whose thoughts or wisdom were the seeds of your own thoughts. You would normally reaffirm them by your own experience or understanding. This is better than plagiarising other people's ideas or work especially in research and so on.

hang19

i would say because people that we are quoting is more respectable/knowledgeable than we actually are.
hence the quote makes us as credible as them.