M-MRCA utk TUDM

windof

kelana, wa cuma wonder sikit....
dalam exercise, kita dah tau dengan a/craft apa kita nak duel, so basically perancangan dan kajian ttg keupayaan pesawat tersebut telah kita tahu dan pelajari sebelum pergi buat exercise utk mencari titik kelemahan mereka. meaning, b4 exercise dah ada preparation la about what to do n what to expect...

tapi kata la, dlm situasi sebenar pesawat pejuang musuh yg tak diketahui tiba2 masuk ruang udara negara, kita tak tau jenis pesawat, keupayaannya, senjata yg dibawanya dan juga rejim atau spektrum keupayaan tempurnya, macamana nak handle masalah nih?

kelana36

Very unlikely kalau org nak serang sesebuah negara without merisik risik.
sekurang kurangnya ada aerial probing , squadron deployment within striking range and positioning of ground support. Kan ke ada MI semua. So basically kita tau la sapa enemy kita.
Nevertheless, kata la kita tgh buat CAP, combat air patrol, tiba2 ada bogey approaching, looking at the planes boleh tau capabilities dia. Samada sweptwing, delta wing, ada foreplane, twin vertical stabilizer etc etc. Big wing area, low wing loading, 2 engines have big specific excess energy, kalau ada foreplane mean very unstable. Masa dia turn nampakla clearly. So  keep our energy high, stay in our regime. Keep mutual support between leader n wingman, only one aircraft engage at a time, the other provide cover and plan for next move for a quick kill. CRM bro ! Wingman and leader sama la macam Capt n Co pilot, bila engage, no more leader or wingman, its called engage fighter or free fighter, sama macam PF and PNF, hehe. Masing2 ada tugas tertentu.
So basically macam tu la kalau nak survive .
Seperti kata pepatah, In an aerial combat, there is no winner, those who makes mistake will loose.

windof

442# kelana36

wowkeh! caya la bro... kalu macam nih la standard pelot2 feter kita, wa mmg tabik spring la sama lu orang...

innocentti

431# kelana36
very interesting story i say..tak dapat di mana2 ni..thanks!

areguard

442# kelana36

Tuan Kelana Sir, jangan lupa upload itu gambar2 ya..Esp. those with the "kill" in gunsight photos..boleh merembes ni

cmf_nando

442# kelana36

Wa ambil peluang tanya yr opinion macam mana air force Syria boleh kalah teruk dlm perang lebanon 1982 terutama dlm aerial combat? Puas wa cari tapi kebanyakan " talk" about musnah SAM. Isreal superpriortiy ECM etc. Pada wa, Syria ada Mig21, Mig23 yg baru dari Soviet. Pelot Syria pun well train dan sudah kenal siapa enemy dia. Then, kenapa gagal tembak/damage 1 pun Isreal f16, F4 sampai ia hilang 80-90 plane vs 0 di pihak isreal. Wa paham Isreal masa itu sudah ada AWACS. tapi wa rasa itu bukan kelebihan muklak dlm areial combat in.

TQ dulu.

alphawolf

MiG-23 Syria pakai radar MiG-21...lepas tu semua setakat pakai Atoll saja...tarak pakai Aphid atau Apex.

jofizo

446# cmf_nando


ada citer dlm history channel, kalau tak silap masa tuh menteri pertahanan syria hendak melawat ke salah satu pengkalan tentera syria dgn menggunakan pesawat. yg bagusnya SAM syria di-offkan sebab takut tertembak pesawat sendiri. pada masa inilah israel menggunakan kesempatan utk ayam2 yg tgh menunggu kat airfield..........

yaminz

448# jofizo

Kalo xsilap itu Menteri Mesir dan event yg blaku dlm 6 days war...

kelana36

446# cmf_nando


Masa tu, Israel AF ada defence radar kat israel, offshore north east beirut dekat dgn Nicosia,Cyprus dan juga AWAC. Almost 3D monitoring. Sebelum dia orang launch air attack, dia orang destroyed dulu all the AAA and radar site kat syria. So basically Syria tak ada air defence radar dan pilot dia orang bila take off jer dah kena track dengan defence radar israel. jadi macam orang jalan dalam gelap, sorang guna night vision sorang lagi meraba, macam mana nak lawan. Dalam 2 hari jer dah habis fighter syria. Furthermore nak lawan F15 and F16. Tak sempat pun close air combat. most of the kill were by the sparrow and sidewinder. probably battle commander dia org salah planning.

Ini my view la, maybe you guys have a different opinion.

yaminz

446# cmf_nando

Pilot israel lebih agressive dan highly trained...

windof

450# kelana36

kalu same thing happen to our ground air defence, radar semua habis kena banzai bersama2 AAA n SAM, pelot feter pon tak leh dapat que dari ground control, macamana nak off radar pesawat?  sorry la, wa rasa soalan nih sensitip.... hang tak yah jawab. wa rasa semua scenario sudah ada dalam kepala otak air defence negara....

kelana36

452# windof


Macam battle of britain WW2, buat observation post banyak2, guna binoculars. British guna ni to detect german fighter approaching.   

Kita ada mobile radar ,ready for deployment. Kalau hang land kat KCH Rwy 25, belah kiri kat padang bola tu one of them. Tak tau la ada lagi ke tak.

Negara jiran belajar dari Israel la, tu sebab dia org dah lama beli AWACS.

Pada beli A319 untuk PM tu lebih baik beli EMB145 ERIEYE ker, hehe

cmf_nando

446# cmf_nando  


ada citer dlm history channel, kalau tak silap masa tuh menteri pertahanan syria hendak melawat ke salah satu pengkalan tentera syria dgn menggunakan pesawat. yg bagusnya SAM sy ...
jofizo Post at 28-10-2009 16:53

Yg wa tahu, kebanyakan Syria plane musnah ketika air battle. maknanya, Syria MIG masih boleh sempat take off and give isreal a flight walaupun sudah defense radar sudah dibutakan. (Scenario pernah ulang tayang kat perang Kosva 1999. Tapi masa 1999, ASSRAM sudah ada dan berjaya jatuhkan Mig29 sebia.) Bab ini sgt pelik bagi wa, pelot Syria sudah tentu tahu segala kelemahan pelot & fighter Isreal, then kenapa  tiada  Syria pelot/MIG tak dapat satu score pun? Blame it on Soviet plane?

lil_riyaz

442# kelana36  

Wa ambil peluang tanya yr opinion macam mana air force Syria boleh kalah teruk dlm perang lebanon 1982 terutama dlm aerial combat? Puas wa cari tapi kebanyakan " talk" about musnah ...
cmf_nando Post at 28-10-2009 13:44

IMHO itulah one of the great example of dominance in Electronic Warfare..and definitely illustrating the importance of AWACS..kalau tak silap the same concept applies dlm South African-Angolan War..walaupun xde AWACS involved tp dominance in EW yg jd deciding factor.

cmf_nando

IMHO itulah one of the great example of dominance in Electronic Warfare..and definitely illustrating the importance of AWACS..kalau tak silap the same concept applies dlm South African-Angolan War ...
lil_riyaz Post at 28-10-2009 19:01

EW memang penting tapi bukan decisive factor dlm perang lebanon 1982. Semua bahan wa cari seolah-olah Isreal fighter tak dapat tiada calar pun! Kalau Syria dapat damage 1 shj, sudah tentu satu dunia sudah heboh. Dlm Imagnasi wa, Isreal fighter ni macam alien dlm filem Indenpendence Day!.

Sori, wa sudah jauh off topic!

kelana36

454# cmf_nando


Yes ,you are rite, most of the Syirian planes destroyed during the air battles. Memang dia orang sempat take off, runways dia orang tak usik pun, unlike the gulfwar, runway habis kena bedil. In fact masa tu the instruction given to the Israeli, do not shoot syrian fighters unless under attack. Nak tunjuk baik to world agaknya. So as I said, the syirian ,bila airborne jer orang dah dapat track, perhati jer mana nak pegi, dia orang standby jer la nak ambush. Letak umpan 2/3 biji, ada sepuluh ready nak ambush, without them knowing. Remember ,masa tu Israel ada 400 fighters against slightly over 200.
So the moment syrian fighter maneuver atau lock on to their fighters, dia orang balun la. justified to kill.

far-eiq

457# kelana36

by reading kelana post....................
so israel beyond far & dominance in :-

pilot quality
strategy
doctrine
great timing
modern fighter + quantity
high train pilot / high moral & full of galant
situation control bu AWACS, radar site, observing
great armament, using sparrow & etc2....
electronic warfare...

in logical...memang sayur la syria ni...............and its damn true..........

what if.....we put Malaysia in SYria situation...how we handle it with our ORBAT now.......

windof

453# kelana36

mungkin radar pasif lebih sesuai dlm keadaan macam tu.
dipadankan pula ngan feter2 4.5g yg memiliki keupayaan irst yg powerful dan boleh buat stol dari jalan2 kampung dan desa atau dari hutan. kalu larat nak pakai vtol is a bonus.

Taring22

431# kelana36

Kelana36 bekas Kala n Keris Mas...yer...he he...