Covenant of Prophet Muhammad(saw) with Christians

sam1528

Sephiroth posted on 18-6-2014 12:04 PM
by Sam1528
Quantity of people stating the same thing doesn't mean that they are saying are true. Especially Muslims - they have no proof but believe whatever written in Al Quran and Al-Hadith simply because they believe it is "holy" book.

You again demonstrate your ignorance. When a historical report has multiple independent attestation , it means that such report is the closest to the truth. A 'mutawatir' hadith has multiple independent attestation. Such is the historical methodology. Compare it to the Bhagavad Gita. The Gita is just a book of fairy tales. We don't know who wrote it in addition that there are no chains of narrators. Are you now going to discard the Bhagavad Gita? Yes or No?

You still believes in that fairy tale?

Source : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Splitting_of_the_moon

    Early traditions supporting a literal interpretation are transmitted on the authority of companions of Muhammad such as Ibn Abbas, Anas bin Malik, Abdullah bin Masud and others.[2][3] According to the Indian Muslim scholar Abdullah Yusuf Ali, the moon will split again when the day of judgment approaches. He says that the verse may also have an allegorical meaning, i.e. the matter has become clear as the moon.[4][5] The Qur'anic verse 54:1-2 was part of the debate between medieval Muslim theologians and Muslim philosophers over the issue of the inviolability of heavenly bodies. Philosophers held that the heavenly bodies could not be pierced because, unlike terrestrial matter, they were not composed of the four fundamental elements of earth, air, fire, and water.[5] Some rationalistic Muslim thinkers argued that only an appearance of the split of the moon had happened.[4]

    The narrative was used by some later Muslims to convince others of the prophethood of Muhammad.[4] It has also inspired many Muslim poets, especially in India.[6]



So which one is it? Moon will split in Judgement Day? Moon cannot be pierced? Or it is merely an illusion? Even your own members of Muslim societies seems unable to make up their mind.

And Yes, this bull$hit had been used in India before - to convert gullible Indians into believing in an Arabic guy named Muhammad. I just wasn't expecting you could try something this gullible on me.

You are not answering my question. The issue here was a Hindu King in India (who then became muslim) witnessing the event and we have an ancient document about him which is still preserved till today. What happened to the moon is not an issue but the witness of someone far away at that time is the contention. I have historical evidence of independent attestations. When the event had multiple independent attestations , historical analysis means it is close to the truth.

Can you address the issue of the validity of this incident instead of arguing what the Quranic commentators think? Whether the moon was split or appeared to be split is a non issue to me. I am addressing the historical validity of this event. You are running away from this issue. Can you address the issue with some form of evidence if you think it is invalid.

Sorry, I don't know you nor do I have any reasons to accept what you said as truth. As far as I know, ALL Muslims are very good liars when debating with Non-Muslims. Muhammad taught them well.

In other words , you are denying for the sake of denial. Dr Baker is a bona fide figure. You can write him an email to find out for yourself. Just mention the reference. Are you scared that it might shatter your faith in Hinduism? So far we do not see any miracles by the Hindu Gods that has been preserved thru time. So how?

Really? Show me examples of Muslim countries (other than in Middle East) which actually progressed forward - in education, health system, welfare system and such by following Islam.

Which of these so called country(ies) have the Quran or Islam being their constitution? Has India progressed in the said conditions? I say no. What is there to showcase in Hinduism? I say Hinduism is even worse off.

ONLY a stupid ba$tard like you can link the color of the skin to implementation of a Judicial System.

We (non-Muslims) follows (NOT SUBMIT OURSELVES) the Common Laws because it can be debated, implemented, revised and removed completely with the changes of Time and Society. The Laws are made by us, implement by us, revised by us and if necessary new laws can be created or old ones can be destroyed. We cannot do that with Hudud because ONLY MUSLIMS will be able to revise it and even that is done by follow an out-dated 7th Century fictional book named Al Quran.

We follow the British Law System. You in your mindless defence of the Common Law makes you a boot licker to the white man. You dream of having their skin color? Yes?

The issue here is not the debate or implement or revision of the laws. The issue here is the effectiveness of the law , once punitive punishment handed out , would it deter future crime of the same? Debating or implementing or revising the laws does not make it effective being a deterrent. Muslims cannot revise the Hadd punishment. It is cast in stone. Where did you get the idea that only muslims can revise the Hadd punishment? BTW the Hadd punishment are for specific crimes only. All this while you are in ignorance that only muslims can revise the Hadd punishment? Again you are just arguing from your knowledge deficiency ...... as usual. You are one ignorant person.

Where are the statistics which you want me to compare? Show it here.

Can't you do any work by yourself? Ok , you are an extremist Hindu. People like you detest knowledge and expect to be spoon fed. India ranks #3 in this world for rape

Rape and violence against women are a massive problem in India.  According to the country's National Crime Record Bureau, crimes against women have increased by 7.1 percent since 2010. The number of rapes reported has also risen.  Nearly one in three rape victims in India is under the age of 18.  One in 10 are under 14. Every 20 minutes in India, a woman is raped.

And yet India only ranks third for the number of rapes reported each year.

Good enough?

1 is killed, six presumed to be death (if you say otherwise, proof it), two escaped by converting to Islam and one run away (not want to convert). These are the numbers. You say anything different, you have to prove it yourself.

To presume is to make an assumption. Assumption is not data but cock up. You need to provide proof as you are the one citing the reference and making such argument. The bigger issue is your claim of hundreds or perhaps thousands that were supposed to be killed because Prophet Muhammad(saw) instilled humiliation and fear in the muslims due to the one sided Treaty of Hudaibiyah. You have been proven wrong and now you are trying to cover up your blunder by being extremely silent on this. You are just a fraud and a liar.

Waking up and praying to some Arabic god is "business" - you merely trading your time and effect for a daydream of heaven. Paying Zakat is politics - to ensure that the wealthy doesn't ignore the poor because if they did, then the poor become restless and riots could happen. So Muhammad ensure something goes from someone's pocket to the poor's pocket so the poor could remain quiet toward Muslim rule.

You being a Hindu don't pray to your Gods? Ha ha , then what is the use of professing worship of your Gods. Not good for business issit? Zakat is part of the social welfare meaning there is to some degree a distribution of wealth. Compare such to Hinduism , no need to talk lah. There is no welfare system in Hinduism apart from the upper caste opressing the lower caste. Are you a pariah/dalit or brahmin? Hmm , you could be the former with the way you curse left and right. No finesse at all.

Can you explain why you could you think that Islam is a religious system?

Islam is a way of life. Religion , spirituality , politics etc are all incorporated in it. Religious system is a part of Islam. However we do not have caste system in Islam ..... ha ha

I merely stated the choice Abu Sufiyan and Muhammad had in this matter. Muhammad "forgave" Abu Sufiyan simply because Abu Sufiyan have become a powerful warrior and leader of Meccans. To kill Abu Sufiyan could lead to an open revolt or possible splinter group which could target Muslims and Islam from within. No, Muhammad kept his enemy closer, sending him off to battlefields so he could get killed. It is also something Napoleon and Hitler did their enemies as well.

You are wrong again. Historical facts state that Prophet Muhammad(saw) forgave his enemies when all of them were in fear of being put to the sword. To forgive when in the position of power shows the tolerant and impeccable character of Prophet Muhammad(saw). Abu Sufian was not a powerful enemy. He was never in any circle of power duing the time of Prophet Muhammad(saw). Which battle did Prophet Muhammad(saw) sent Abu Sufian in a hope for him to be killed? Another 'pull from the ass' fact? Appears so. You sure it wasn't Abu Mutalib ..... ha ha



So how? How is your Hindu Holy war getting along. I tried to look for the such news in the papers but none. Oops my bad ... you chickened out when it really mattered. Cluck cluck goes the chicken ...... ha ha

Sephiroth

by Sam1528

When a historical report has multiple independent attestation , it means that such report is the closest to the truth.

I think you know $hit about Truth.

The issue here was a Hindu King in India (who then became muslim) witnessing the event and we have an ancient document about him which is still preserved till today.

No, nothing perserved to this day. That fairy tale about Hindu king observing the moon split was created in 1980s (same time the story about having Shivalingam inside the Kaabah). It is all fairy-tale which people like you could believe.

Whether the moon was split or appeared to be split is a non issue to me.

In another word, you don't care whether what is written in your Al Quran is true or false. You just follow like a good donkey. Very good.

In other words , you are denying for the sake of denial.  

No, I'm denying because I don't know you and have no reasons to believe in what you have said.

Which of these so called country(ies) have the Quran or Islam being their constitution?

You tell me first which countries have progressed forward with Islam and Syariah, and then we will see whether they have Al Quran or Islamic principle in the Constitution or not.

We follow the British Law System. You in your mindless defence of the Common Law makes you a boot licker to the white man.

And you mindlessly following Islam all your life without thinking like a human being makes you a mindless Arab slave and puppet.

Where did you get the idea that only muslims can revise the Hadd punishment?

Show me Al Quran verses which says otherwise.

Zakat is part of the social welfare meaning there is to some degree a distribution of wealth.

No, zakat is just a begging system used to prevent the poor from rising up against their pro-Arabic masters like what happening in many countries in Africa.

Islam is a way of life. Religion , spirituality , politics etc are all incorporated in it.  

No, Islam is a way of politics - designed by the Arabs so they can rule over other races in name of some made-believe god named Allah. That is all it is.

You are wrong again. Historical facts state that Prophet Muhammad(saw) forgave his enemies when all of them were in fear of being put to the sword.

All of them? You are lying because I have already stated at least ONE had been killed.

sam1528

Sephiroth posted on 18-6-2014 04:07 PM
by Sam1528
I think you know $hit about Truth.

Historical truth is that when it can be verified or it has multiple independent attestation. Such is the historical method of verification. You again demonstrate that you don't know what you are talking about. You start cursing , it means that you are losing your grip. Could also be due to your upbringing having less than stellar family values or a culture in Hinduism.

No, nothing perserved to this day. That fairy tale about Hindu king observing the moon split was created in 1980s (same time the story about having Shivalingam inside the Kaabah). It is all fairy-tale which people like you could believe.

What do you mean nothing is preserved to this day? I have already provided the archive reference which has been checked out. All you need to is contact the Dr Baker and get the historical document. I suspect you are in fear of the truth. You fear it could shatter your faith in Hinduism. Shivalingam in Kaabah is like the Bhagavad Gita - a fairy tale. Ha ha , every year cleaners would go in the Kaabah for it to be cleaned. There is also a video of what is in the Kaabah. All is above board.

In another word, you don't care whether what is written in your Al Quran is true or false. You just follow like a good donkey. Very good.

Don't care what is in the Quran? You must be drunk coming up with such claim. The Quran states that the moon was split. It could be literally split or appeared to be split. Either one is of no issue to me. What is more important , this incident was verified by independent witnesses in which the Hindu King was one of them - with proper historical evidence. This confirm the validity of the Quran. Unlike the Bhagavad Gita , a book of fairy tales with no independent witness of the stories it contain. Appears that the one with blind faith is you. The one who is of lesser intelligence is you. Why do you follow a book that cannot be independently verified? Blind faith for sure.

No, I'm denying because I don't know you and have no reasons to believe in what you have said

If you don't know , find out. You are not doing such which shows that you are in fear that your faith could be shattered and you deny just for the sake of denial. My argument has the support of independent historical evidence , you have nothing but auta. BTW , I asked you to contact Dr Baker , not me. Allah forbid , I hope I never manage to see you.

You tell me first which countries have progressed forward with Islam and Syariah, and then we will see whether they have Al Quran or Islamic principle in the Constitution or not.

That is why I am asking you provide me a country which has the Quran being its constitution. You cannot answer me and now you are asking which country have progressed with Islam. If there is no country with the Quran / Islam being the constitution , how can you name which country has progressed with Islam and syariah? You don't seem to employ any logic. You are like a cow being let loose in a pen mucking in its own poo. You have this uncanny ability to blunder in anything and everything.

However studies by Oxford University is that Thomas Jefferson was somewhat influenced by the Charter of Madinah and the Quran when he drafted the constitution of USA.

There are two ways in which Jefferson understood the Qur'an; the first is as a law book. As a legal document, the Qur'an, together with the Hadith and Sunnah, are the scaffolding upon which the Shari'a or Islamic Law is erected. Jefferson understood this implicitly about the Qur'an, probably as a result of his own legal training. In this legalistic understanding of the Qur'an, he was able to probe the text for information for his diplomatic endeavors, particularly those involving the Barbary States.

Whether or not Jefferson was also familiar with the Constitution of Medina—the document dictated by Muhammad to govern relations among the diverse Muslim and Jewish tribes in Medina—is unknown. As legislative documents, there are similarities between the Declaration of Independence, the United States Constitution, and the Qur'an. Some of the contents of the Constitution of Medina, particularly in the inclusion of the unification and protection of a people regardless of creed under the government, equal rights, and protection of religious groups, are articulated in both the Declaration of Independence and the United States Constitution

There you go. Deal with the scholarship. Ha ha , you are going to have a hard time with me.

And you mindlessly following Islam all your life without thinking like a human being makes you a mindless Arab slave and puppet.

We are talking about laws and you go off tangent again. Where did you get the nonsense that only muslims can change the prescription of Hadd? I am a thinking human being , that is why I say Hudud is superior to common law in every aspect that it is being applied to. You cannot even answer me when I made a comparison of the punishment of a convicted rapist. All I get from you is undiscernible blabber. How can I be an arab puppet as the arabs themselves are subjected to the same law. You don't seem to use your brains to think.

Show me Al Quran verses which says otherwise

If you only have half a brain (which is better than none for your case) and have read / understood the 2 sentences before your copy paste , you would not have made such a blunder. Where did you get the idea that only muslims can change the Hadd punishment? Do you understand what you read? Can you explain what I stated in my post#41 as follows :

.... Muslims cannot revise the Hadd punishment. It is cast in stone. Where did you get the idea that only muslims can revise the Hadd punishment? ....

Can you explain what is the context of the above. Get an english teacher to help you.

No, zakat is just a begging system used to prevent the poor from rising up against their pro-Arabic masters like what happening in many countries in Africa.

Huh? Wow! Your logic is really warped. Zakat is for the poor to assist them in their sustanence. Isn't such an act of charity meaning a welfare system? I know there is no welfare system in Hinduism but that is Hinduism. How can it be pro Arabic as the same system is practiced in the Arab countries. By your logic it means pro-pro Arabic. Ha ha , I just don't understand this. Why you 'die die' want to expose yourself being a person of lower or no intelligence? You get the kick of people laughing at you because of your inferior intelligence? Issit because you are from the lowest caste that you are now a self hating Hindu?

No, Islam is a way of politics - designed by the Arabs so they can rule over other races in name of some made-believe god named Allah. That is all it is.

Hmm , I am surprised. Are the leaders of the non Arab countries being Arabs? The Ottomans were not arabs. They were once rulers of the arab lands. There is something mentally wrong with you.

All of them? You are lying because I have already stated at least ONE had been killed.

If you had read carefully , I stated that Prophet Muhammad(saw) forgave his enemies. Did I say 'all'? Tell me the reason why that particular person was executed. Do explain your outlandish claim of hundreds or perhaps thousands that were supposed to be killed because Prophet Muhammad(saw) instilled humiliation and fear in the muslims due to the one sided Treaty of Hudaibiyah. Why are you trying to run from your blunder?

You sure not Abu Mutalib yeah? Ha ha



Did you manage to kill any muslims in your ongoing Hindu Holy War? Before this you were gung ho wanting to kill muslims. You got 'chicken heart attack' or what ..... ha ha

Sephiroth

by Sam1528

Historical truth is that when it can be verified or it has multiple independent attestation. Such is the historical method of verification.

And Yet Muslims have problems when Jews and Christians reject Muhammad as prophet of God. Muslims have problem when Hindus and Buddhists stated that most terrorist activities are done by Muslims (and therefore has connection to their belief, Islam).

Muslims only care when others stated things which fits their little heads. They don't know truth, don't want to learn about truth and have no capability to think outside the concept of Islam. In another word, Muslims are "herded animals" - herded not by god but by the Arabs.

All you need to is contact the Dr Baker and get the historical document.

I need to go and verify that you are telling the truth? BULL$HIT. I don't need to do anything.

I know two facts - that this fairy-tales surfaced in 1980s to convert Indians in India and that Muslims are good liars and you are no exception. I know this for facts, why should I be bothered to check your fairy-tale?

The Quran states that the moon was split. It could be literally split or appeared to be split. Either one is of no issue to me.

You have just proven just how stupid Muslims can become.
You say Al Quran states the moon have been split and then you come out with notion that you don't care if it is split in appearance only. THAT MEANS THE MOON HAVE NEVER BEEN SPLIT AND YOUR AL-QURAN LIED, BODOH.

IF you claim Al Quran is word of god, then the Moon must split and join back. There must be physical evidence (as can be seen from Earth) which shows the place where the split had occurred. ONLY then we could say that Al Quran is trully from god. But if you say you OK with the moon's appearance of being split (which means it is an illusion), then what is the use of claiming Al Quran is word of god? It proves Al Quran is nothing more than fictional book.

If you don't know , find out.

I don't need to find out because I know for fact that Muslims are liars.

If there is no country with the Quran / Islam being the constitution , how can you name which country has progressed with Islam and syariah?

So you are saying there is NO country in the World that progressed with Islam? Then why do you need to put this 7th Century Arabic nonsense into any country's constitution?

Where did you get the nonsense that only muslims can change the prescription of Hadd?

Show me where (in Al Quran) does it state that non-Muslims can change prescriptions in Hudud. THEN TALK.

Zakat is for the poor to assist them in their sustanence.  

Like I said, Zakat is there to prevent the poor from rising up against those who has power. The poor cannot fight the powerful because they will fear losing whatever little begging money they get from the powerful and the powerful will sleep better at night, knowing that they threw some money for poor Muslims before.

Are the leaders of the non Arab countries being Arabs? The Ottomans were not arabs. They were once rulers of the arab lands.

I said Islam was political system designed (by the Arabs) to rule over other Muslims. Which means non-Arabs are second-class even within Arabic nations. Which is why no other non-Arabic races like Africans, Middle-Easterners and Asians can take over the Kaabah. The Arabs created a system where they are in the middle (as caretakers of Kaabah) and all other non-Arab Muslims are required to protect them. In another word, non-Arabs are the shields of Arabs.

This method is not new. Roman Empire has similar setup as well. They established the Capital in Rome and then established City-States around Rome all the way to east Europe where they could bring in the wealth of land, gold, slaves and other resources to feed Rom. Muslims merely repeated the same method but instead of using a political system directly, they used a political system that disguised as religious system indirectly.

Did I say 'all'?

Yes, you did.

sam1528

Sephiroth posted on 19-6-2014 01:49 PM
by Sam1528
nd Yet Muslims have problems when Jews and Christians reject Muhammad as prophet of God. Muslims have problem when Hindus and Buddhists stated that most terrorist activities are done by Muslims (and therefore has connection to their belief, Islam).

Muslims only care when others stated things which fits their little heads. They don't know truth, don't want to learn about truth and have no capability to think outside the concept of Islam. In another word, Muslims are "herded animals" - herded not by god but by the Arabs.

The muslims did not have a problem with the Christians and Jews when they rejected Prophet Muhammad(saw). Else why have the Covenant with the Christians in St Cathrine and  Treaty (or Charter) of Madinah. Historical facts have thoroughly refuted your hollow argument. In fact you only argue with 'pull from the ass' facts.

Don't think so. The LTTE which is the foremost in suicide terrorism are Hindus. It is Hindu terrorism that is the cause of the demolition of the Barbri Mosque. You in support of them implictly makes you a Hindu terrorist.

Ha ha , if you talk about things that fit their little head , this fit nicely into Hinduism. Islam has gone global. Hinduism is just centered in India. I don't think you can think outside the concept of Hinduism , for example the hereditary caste system - I just love to hit you on this one.

I need to go and verify that you are telling the truth? BULL$HIT. I don't need to do anything.

I know two facts - that this fairy-tales surfaced in 1980s to convert Indians in India and that Muslims are good liars and you are no exception. I know this for facts, why should I be bothered to check your fairy-tale?

Then you are just a frog in a well because ignorance is bliss for you. In fact I suspect you are afraid of the truth. It might be faith shattering for you.

It surfaced in 1980 because Dr Hamidullah wrote a book - Muhammad : Rasullah in 1979 based on his research in which he found out of this archived historical transcript. How can it be a fairy tale as there is a written document in historicity? You are scared to find out , aren't you. This shows that Islam has all the historical documents to back up its claim. Compare it to the Bhagavad Gita - truly a book of fairy tales.

You have just proven just how stupid Muslims can become.
You say Al Quran states the moon have been split and then you come out with notion that you don't care if it is split in appearance only. THAT MEANS THE MOON HAVE NEVER BEEN SPLIT AND YOUR AL-QURAN LIED, BODOH.

IF you claim Al Quran is word of god, then the Moon must split and join back. There must be physical evidence (as can be seen from Earth) which shows the place where the split had occurred. ONLY then we could say that Al Quran is trully from god. But if you say you OK with the moon's appearance of being split (which means it is an illusion), then what is the use of claiming Al Quran is word of god? It proves Al Quran is nothing more than fictional book.

The question you have yet to answer. Does it matter if the moon appeared or was actually split? People witnessed it with multiple independent attestation. It is recorded history with independent multiple attestation. If Allah has the power to split the moon , any logical mind would conclude that Allah has the power to join it up again without any blemish. This is logical thinking. To your logic ,  the moon was joint back with 'super glue' and masking tape? You need to use your brains , if you have any.

Any reason why there should be any physical evidence of the moon joining back?

Why can't it be an appearance or illusion that the moon has been split? Its a very powerful illusion then as a Hindu King in India (~ 2000km away) witnessed it and became muslim.

What is wrong with either interpretation?

A fictional book is a book whose content cannot be independently verified like the Bhagavad Gita. You still have a long way to go in logical thinking. Its ok , take small steps and be humble.

I don't need to find out because I know for fact that Muslims are liars.

Translation : I am scared to find out in case the truth shatter my Hindu faith

So you are saying there is NO country in the World that progressed with Islam? Then why do you need to put this 7th Century Arabic nonsense into any country's constitution?

Why do insist to twist what I stated? Don't you think you would be called out? I asked you to show me which country has the Quran being its constitution? Then the said country becomes an islamic country. This is factual and logical thinking yet you fail badly in trying to grasp the concept. You again demonstrate your less than average intelligence.

Show me where (in Al Quran) does it state that non-Muslims can change prescriptions in Hudud. THEN TALK.

Hudud is a penal law system derived from the Quran and sunnah. Hadd punishment is prescribed in the Quran. Muslims cannot change the Quran. Therefore muslims themselves cannot change the Hadd punishment. What nonsense from you that only muslims are permitted to revise the Hudud in the Hadd punishment? What you are saying is that muslims can change the Quran when they revise the Hadd punishment in Hudud. Hadd punishment is only limited to certain crimes. Even such , the scope is for muslims only because non muslims are not bound by the Quran. BTW what is wrong with the Hadd punishment for the crime committed?

Why in world that you 'die die' insisting to demonstrate your less than average intelligence? Are you a self hating Hindu? Appears so ....

Like I said, Zakat is there to prevent the poor from rising up against those who has power. The poor cannot fight the powerful because they will fear losing whatever little begging money they get from the powerful and the powerful will sleep better at night, knowing that they threw some money for poor Muslims before.

The poor would rebel when they have been neglected. This is evident throughout history like the French / Russian revolution. In a country where there is a welfare system , the conditions are ok. In fact the Scandanavian countries employ the same concept with their welfare system. You argue with 'pull from the ass' facts , nothing more. This is because you are jealous that there is no set welfare system in Hinduism. Too bad for you. Time to look for a better religion than Hinduism.

I said Islam was political system designed (by the Arabs) to rule over other Muslims. Which means non-Arabs are second-class even within Arabic nations. Which is why no other non-Arabic races like Africans, Middle-Easterners and Asians can take over the Kaabah. The Arabs created a system where they are in the middle (as caretakers of Kaabah) and all other non-Arab Muslims are required to protect them. In another word, non-Arabs are the shields of Arabs.

This method is not new. Roman Empire has similar setup as well. They established the Capital in Rome and then established City-States around Rome all the way to east Europe where they could bring in the wealth of land, gold, slaves and other resources to feed Rom. Muslims merely repeated the same method but instead of using a political system directly, they used a political system that disguised as religious system indirectly.

This is the silliest argument I have ever come across. It really demonstrate that you are ignorant of the world. How can Arabs rule over other non arab muslims? Are there any arab leaders in the non arab muslim dominant countries? Are you blind? Just look around you. How can other races take over the Kaabah? The Kaabah in in Saudi Arabia not in China nor in India nor in Nigeria. Therefore it is logical that the locals take care of it. The muslims will protect their own similar to you who blabber for the Hindus in India. It is the same thing because religion is the binding force.

You are wrong. The roman empire was divided in 2 , the east being the Byzantine Empire centered in Constantinople. What nonsense that all the wealth goes to Rome? You are ignorant of history. Now its bringing wealth and slaves to Mekkah per your Rome analogy? For your information Mekkah was never the capital of the Abbasid , Ummayad and the Ottomans. The political power never resided in Mekkah throughout 1400 years of Islamic History. You are a nutcase who argue with 'pull from the ass' facts. Your ass must be hurting with all the rubbish you pulled from it.

Like I stated , you are a self hating Hindu who loves being intellectually humiliated.

Yes, you did.

Show me , the post# and the actual sentence.



How? Have you recovered from your 'chicken heart attack'. Summoned enough courage for wage your Hindu Holy War? Ha ha

Sephiroth

by Sam1528

The muslims did not have a problem with the Christians and Jews when they rejected Prophet Muhammad(saw).

I'm talking about Islam's stance on Jews and Christians where Islam clearly state that non-muslims should be given three choice - Accept Islam, Pay Jizyah or die. WHO THE F$#K DO YOU (MUSLIMS) THINK YOU ARE TO GIVE US CHOICE?

Islam has gone global.

Yes, a Global Pandemic.

It surfaced in 1980 because Dr Hamidullah wrote a book - Muhammad : Rasullah in 1979 ....

So you agree that a Muslim wrote this fairy-tale to promote Islam in India (and elsewhere). Very good, thank you.

Does it matter if the moon appeared or was actually split? People witnessed it with multiple independent attestation. It is recorded history with independent multiple attestation.  

Yes, it matters whether the Moon was split or just appeared to split. It matters if such event happened or merely delusion of Muslims. IT MATTERS. As for the power of your fairy-tale god, Allah - proof first the Moon had been split first before you talk about your Allah's fairy tale powers. It is like trying to support one bull$hit (Moon splitting in half) with another bull$hit (Allah's powers).  

Any reason why there should be any physical evidence of the moon joining back?

Because without evidence, your story is merely a fairy-tale.

Why do insist to twist what I stated?

Why are you unable to answer any of my questions?

I asked - which country implemented Hudud and moved forward?
You asked back - Which country had Syariah in its Constitution?
I asked back - Is no country in the World had Islamic Constitution before?
And you ask back - Why am I twisting your words?

You are the one who seems to be suggesting that no country in the World (including those in middle east) have Islamic principle in their Constitution.

What you are saying is that muslims can change the Quran when they revise the Hadd punishment in Hudud.

NO. I was asking where does it say (in Al Quran) that non-Muslims can change the prescription in Hudud. Read properly.

The poor would rebel when they have been neglected. This is evident throughout history like the French / Russian revolution.

Yes, THAT was what I had stated about Zakat System. Why are you repeating what I have said?

How can Arabs rule over other non arab muslims?

By putting Arabic tradition, culture and way of life as guide to non-Muslims to follow. Those who follows the Arabic ways are in turn become Arab (wannabees). And if tomorrow any non-Muslims were to attack Arab Saudi, these wannabees will be there to defend. In doing so, no Arab will be killed and there will be no shortage of fools to die for the Arabs, believing that will go to Heaven when all they paved to is Hell.

For your information Mekkah was never the capital of the Abbasid , Ummayad and the Ottomans. The political power never resided in Mekkah throughout 1400 years of Islamic History.

No, but Islamic religious powers did resign in Mecca, just like Roman empire's "religious powers" were reside in Roman Church in Rome after it was adopted by Roman Emperors starting 3rd Century AD. In doing so, Roman indirectly links all Christians around Rome to the service and protection of the Holy City of Rome while enjoying the wealth and power. Your Muhammad merely repeated what he had learned from Rome. That is all.

sam1528

Sephiroth posted on 20-6-2014 10:48 AM
by Sam1528
I'm talking about Islam's stance on Jews and Christians where Islam clearly state that non-muslims should be given three choice - Accept Islam, Pay Jizyah or die. WHO THE F$#K DO YOU (MUSLIMS) THINK YOU ARE TO GIVE US CHOICE?

Your evidence? None as usual. Why are you arguing without any evidence? The treaty of Madinah and the Covenant of St Cathrine did not state of jizya nor death. I again have the historical evidence and you have auta. So for you have never provided any evidence of in your argumenst. Once again , where is your evidence?

Yes, a Global Pandemic.

Better than local pandemic in Hinduism.

So you agree that a Muslim wrote this fairy-tale to promote Islam in India (and elsewhere). Very good, thank you.

Fairy tales? Are you talking about the Bhagavad Gita? Oh , its the book by Dr Hamidullah. It has historical evidence of the Hindu King reverting to Islam after witnessing split of the moon.
Fairy tale - no evidence like the Bhagavad Gita.
Facts - evidence available with the historical transcript of the Hindu King who became a muslim.

Hope you know the difference between fairy tales (Bhagavad Gita) and historical fact (splitting of the moon).

Yes, it matters whether the Moon was split or just appeared to split. It matters if such event happened or merely delusion of Muslims. IT MATTERS. As for the power of your fairy-tale god, Allah - proof first the Moon had been split first before you talk about your Allah's fairy tale powers. It is like trying to support one bull$hit (Moon splitting in half) with another bull$hit (Allah's powers)

Why does it matter whether the moon was physically split or appeared to have been split? You still have not asnwered me. In both cases it was an observation. The split of the moon is a historical fact meaning proof from historical sources with independent multiple attestation. What is your problem with the proof? You cannot answer but go on a mindless blabber.

Lets expose your double or no standards. In the faith of Hinduism

When Lord Krishna was 7 years old, he lifted a mountain (26 miles in perimeter) and held it up with his one hand for 7 days. Witnessed by tens of thousands of people who were standing underneath the mountain.

Do you believe that such is true? If yes , can you provide the evidence as this event was witnessed by tens of thousands of people. Multiple independent attestation would do. Now you would squirm. Ha ha , I want everyone to see that our meenachi Hindu extremist in Sepiroth have blind faith in her God who lifted a mountain , without evidence but dismiss authentic evidence of the splitting of the moon. Lets see how you respond. Don't argue its not relevant. It is relevant to expose the poor values in your argument.

Because without evidence, your story is merely a fairy-tale.

The evidence is the historical fact. You keep on denying the proof. Wonder why? Issit because it is faith shattering for you. What is your problem if Allah had the ability to combine the split parts seamlessly since Allah had the ability to split the moon? You still have not answered me but keep on arguing without evidence or logic.

Why are you unable to answer any of my questions?

I asked - which country implemented Hudud and moved forward?
You asked back - Which country had Syariah in its Constitution?
I asked back - Is no country in the World had Islamic Constitution before?
And you ask back - Why am I twisting your words?

You are the one who seems to be suggesting that no country in the World (including those in middle east) have Islamic principle in their Constitution.

I answered but you did not bother to read my answers. I already stated that there is no country that has the Quran being its constitution hence no Islamic country. Then you asked / stated in post #44

So you are saying there is NO country in the World that progressed with Islam?

Ha ha , nice try in twisting the argument. The fact is that Islam was not allowed to prove it it can progress. How to talk if there is no data? I argue with data , unlike you arguing with 'pull from the ass facts'. What about Hinduism , has India progressed under hinduism?

Show me where (in Al Quran) does it state that non-Muslims can change prescriptions in Hudud. THEN TALK.

In your post #40 you stated only muslims are able to change the Hadd laws

We cannot do that with Hudud because ONLY MUSLIMS will be able to revise it and even that is done by follow an out-dated 7th Century fictional book named Al Quran.

I asked you how is that so because Hadd prescription is from the Quran and muslims cannot change the Quran. Now you come back and ask me where in the Quran it states that non muslims can change the Hadd punishment? You are a lunatic. First you claim only muslims can change Hudud , when refuted you then claim where does it state non muslims can change Hudud. If muslims cannot change the Hadd punishment , what makes you think non muslims can do it? You are going round and round in circles chasing your backside. This is what hinduism has done to you. Hinduism has muddled your already fried brains.

Yes, THAT was what I had stated about Zakat System. Why are you repeating what I have said?

Zakat system is a welfare system. People rebel when there is NO welfare system as proven by history. You claim zakat is bad so as to keep in check the population. Then a lot of countries in the world is following a bad system as all countries have welfare system that takes care of the poor people. This is where you are of lesser intelligence. You condemn zakat but not knowing an identical or similar systems are implemented in most countries in this world - the welfare system. Don't you ever use your brains to think - do you have one in the first place?

By putting Arabic tradition, culture and way of life as guide to non-Muslims to follow. Those who follows the Arabic ways are in turn become Arab (wannabees). And if tomorrow any non-Muslims were to attack Arab Saudi, these wannabees will be there to defend. In doing so, no Arab will be killed and there will be no shortage of fools to die for the Arabs, believing that will go to Heaven when all they paved to is Hell.

Since when there is any forcing of non arabs or non muslims to follow arab culture? You are again farting from your mouth. The binding force is the religion not culture. Similar like you , you keep on barking about Hindus getting a raw deal in India and threaten Hindu Holy War of the Hindu Rights are not respected. Can I say you are forcing the non Hindus to follow the Hindu culture? This is your logic.

No, but Islamic religious powers did resign in Mecca, just like Roman empire's "religious powers" were reside in Roman Church in Rome after it was adopted by Roman Emperors starting 3rd Century AD. In doing so, Roman indirectly links all Christians around Rome to the service and protection of the Holy City of Rome while enjoying the wealth and power. Your Muhammad merely repeated what he had learned from Rome. That is all.

The centre of power has never been in Mekkah. Even at the time of Prophet Muhammad(saw) the centre of power was in Madinah. You are again demonstrating your ignorance. Wrong again. The Byzantine Empire has its centre of power in Constantinople not Rome. The catholics center is towards Rome but not the other denominations.

So how issit that it is similar to what Prophet Muhammad(saw) did as the administration centre was in Madinah , not Mekkah. Again , your ignorance.


One thing you are aware of is you chickening out of your Hindu Holy War. What has happened , you took flight and never came back. Ha ha .... talk big but chicken hearted

Sephiroth

by Sam1528

Your evidence? None as usual.

IF you are blind, that could not be my problem.

Oh , its the book by Dr Hamidullah. It has historical evidence of the Hindu King reverting to Islam after witnessing split of the moon.

Repeated bull$hit from a Muslim ran out of idea.

Why does it matter whether the moon was physically split or appeared to have been split?

I already told you. Physically split means there could be physical evidence and records of the event in various countries. So far, we got book from an Indian pariah stating some made-belief king of India had seen this nonsense and onverted to Islam without knowing what islam was. Gullible nonsense.

Do you believe that such is true? If yes , can you provide the evidence as this event was witnessed by tens of thousands of people. Multiple independent attestation would do.

You cannot even prove a 14th century Arab can split the Moon but have balls to ask me about Hindu God and His feat over 10,000 years ago? Provide your own proof first before asking others for proof.

The fact is that Islam was not allowed to prove it it can progress.

More and more bull$hit from a Muslim. Now you claiming that Islam is not "allowed" to prove it can do it? Is your pathetic god Allah so damn pathetic that he cannot even make ONE F&%KING COUNTRY IN THE WORLD TO ACCEPT ISLAM AND PUT IT IN CONSTITUTION? Then what the hell we need that pathetic $hit you call Allah for?

If muslims cannot change the Hadd punishment , what makes you think non muslims can do it?

THEN what the hell we need a 14th century Arabic law system which cannot be changed, revised, reviewed or removed by its followers AND non-followers for? What the F%#K we need this Syariah $hit for?

Zakat system is a welfare system. People rebel when there is NO welfare system as proven by history. You claim zakat is bad so as to keep in check the population.  

I already told you that zakat system is a begging system exist solely to throw money to the poor so they could not revolt. You already agreed TWICE. So why are you making the same statement repeatedly?

The binding force is the religion not culture.

Stupid Arab dog. You eat like an Arab, sleep like an Arab, drink like an Arab, $hit like an Arab and even do a woman (or in your case, probably another man) like an Arab also - BUT CLAIM THE BINDING FORCE IS RELIGION.

Muslims are just Arabic dogs, their collars is Islam and those who holds them are the Arabs. They jerk and you run to them, they give orders and you will bark and they tell you to sit and you sit. If you cannot even see this, then you are indeed a good obedient dog.

Even at the time of Prophet Muhammad(saw) the centre of power was in Madinah.

But your Kaabah is in Mecca.

sam1528

Sephiroth posted on 21-6-2014 12:23 PM
by Sam1528
IF you are blind, that could not be my problem.

In other words you don't have the evidence. Auta can only get you so far. Where is your evidence?

Repeated bull$hit from a Muslim ran out of idea.

Ha ha , this is so lame. Historical evidence is now bullshit. However the birth of your Hindu God Ram with no evidence is a fact. This is evidence how low Hinduism has fallen. You cannot even think straight.

I already told you. Physically split means there could be physical evidence and records of the event in various countries. So far, we got book from an Indian pariah stating some made-belief king of India had seen this nonsense and onverted to Islam without knowing what islam was. Gullible nonsense.

Like I stated , what is wrong if Allah joint the two parts without blemish? It is not outside the ability of God. You still have no answers. The book detailed the evidence and it can be verified. Somehow Hindus like you are so scared to verify the evidence yourself. You are scared and decide to cover your head in the sand to remain ignorant. Too bad for you.

However you believe your God Krishna who at 7 yrs old lifted a mountain of 26 miles in perimeter and held it with his finger for 7 days and been witnessed by tens of thousands. Where is the evidence? Yet you believe it with all your life.

This demonstrate that you have no logic nor any intelligence to argue with data. Yours is just an emotional argument. Why are you trying to run when I bring in the Krishna 'lifting of the mountain' argument?

More and more bull$hit from a Muslim. Now you claiming that Islam is not "allowed" to prove it can do it? Is your pathetic god Allah so damn pathetic that he cannot even make ONE F&%KING COUNTRY IN THE WORLD TO ACCEPT ISLAM AND PUT IT IN CONSTITUTION? Then what the hell we need that pathetic $hit you call Allah for?

Historical evidence is in my support. The Islamic Party won the democratic election in Algeria in the 90's and wanted to establish an Islamic state. The military with the backing of the US staged a coup de etat. Similar thing happened to Morsi in Egypt. Allah to make a muslim country? Isn't it the duty of the people the act and strive for it. Else muslims will be like the Hindus , just sit back and expect the Hindu Gods to act for them. Why are you trying to impose Hindu culture on us - sitting back and hoping for God to act.

THEN what the hell we need a 14th century Arabic law system which cannot be changed, revised, reviewed or removed by its followers AND non-followers for? What the F%#K we need this Syariah $hit for?

Now you admit that you have blundered badly in your argument about revising the laws. Do tell me , why do we need the law to be changed for a crime like murder or rape for example. Death for rape can only be revised to a non death sentence. Like I stated , the rapist could be freed and later commit the same crime. This has been proven. Why the need for any revision of the law? What worng with Syariah Law? Until now you cannot answer me. Your last argument about non muslims cannot change it has bombed out badly on you.

I already told you that zakat system is a begging system exist solely to throw money to the poor so they could not revolt. You already agreed TWICE. So why are you making the same statement repeatedly?

Zakat system is similar to a welfare system which almost all countries in the world implement. It is a redistributrion of wealth to try to balance the economy between the two extremes. You seem to have an issue with it but in reality Hindus in this country is part recipient of a welfare system. Looks like you are cutting your nose to spite your face. Since zakat is a form of welfare system , therefore you are against welfare system but in your post# 40 , you argued for a welfare syatem

Show me examples of Muslim countries (other than in Middle East) which actually progressed forward - in education, health system, welfare system and such by following Islam

Now you are against welfare system. You again contradict yourself. Looks like you are arguing blind without any logic.

Stupid Arab dog. You eat like an Arab, sleep like an Arab, drink like an Arab, $hit like an Arab and even do a woman (or in your case, probably another man) like an Arab also - BUT CLAIM THE BINDING FORCE IS RELIGION.

Muslims are just Arabic dogs, their collars is Islam and those who holds them are the Arabs. They jerk and you run to them, they give orders and you will bark and they tell you to sit and you sit. If you cannot even see this, then you are indeed a good obedient dog.

- There is only one way to eat / drink , thru the mouth. You eat thru the opening at your rear? No wonder you are of lesser intelligence.
- There is only one way to sleep , to close the eye and lie down , you sleep with your eyes open and hanging upside down?
- There is only one way to $hit , thru the rear end. You $hit thru your mouth? This could be true from your arguments so far.
Don't you use your brains at all? Oops , the bigger question , do you have any brains?

Now muslims are arabic dogs. When ask for evidence you run away. Are there arabic dogs , Indian / Hindu dogs , chinese dogs etc? Waaah! In your world dog are racially divided and have religion also. Don't you think you need professional help?

But your Kaabah is in Mecca.

The centre of power during Prophet Muhammad(saw) time was in Madinah. Therefore you made a huge blunder in your argument per your post #44

...The Arabs created a system where they are in the middle (as caretakers of Kaabah) and all other non-Arab Muslims are required to protect them. In another word, non-Arabs are the shields of Arabs.

This method is not new. Roman Empire has similar setup as well. They established the Capital in Rome and then established City-States around Rome all the way to east Europe where they could bring in the wealth of land, gold, slaves and other resources to feed Rom. Muslims merely repeated the same method but instead of using a political system directly, they used a political system that disguised as religious system indirectly.

Mekkah was never the capital nor the centre of power. Ha ha , you again expose your less than average intelligence



Ha ha , why so quiet in your so called Hindu Holy War? You are embarrassed to the bone with me hitting you on this. You deserve it. Talk big some more lah , threatening war. Now you are knighted - Sepiroth the Chicken Hearted.

Sephiroth

by Sam1528

... what is wrong if Allah joint the two parts without blemish?

Show me proof that such thing happens first, before you can say your Allah pasted the Moon without any traces. Even your own Muslims are split in three ways on what to think - some say Moon split in Judgement Day, some says it is a real event (happened during Muhammad's time) and some say it is just an illusion.

However you believe your God Krishna who at 7 yrs old lifted a mountain of 26 miles in perimeter and held it with his finger for 7 days and been witnessed by tens of thousands. Where is the evidence? Yet you believe it with all your life.

Like I said before - prove first something your Al Quran claimed to happened 1,400 years ago before you could ask about something that happened over 10,000 years ago.

Allah to make a muslim country? Isn't it the duty of the people the act and strive for it.

Then what is your Allah useful for? Your god so pathetic that he kept on losing to humans when trying to establish ONE F*#KING Muslim Country. And you want us to pray to this ridiculous Arabic god?

Death for rape can only be revised to a non death sentence. Like I stated , the rapist could be freed and later commit the same crime.  

Then the failure of the judicial system will become a human fault. However, if we were to implement Hudud and its kept failing us in preventing crime and worst, give too much power to Muslims over non-Muslims, that could become your religious failure as it is your religion that promotes this ridiculous 7th century nonsense.

Furthermore, Muslims need to remember ONE SIMPLE FACT - ONLY place they qualified to run a Hudud system is in Saudi Arabia. They try it anywhere else, and they have declared a war against non-Muslims and we will answer it accordingly.

Zakat system is similar to a welfare system which almost all countries in the world implement. It is a redistributrion of wealth to try to balance the economy between the two extremes.

A proper religion should not have two extremes to begin with. Man can be divided according to his personality (caste system) as Hinduism stated - because NOT ALL MEN ARE BORN EQUAL. But distribution of the nation's wealth must be equal to all. Those who are poor should be given more monetary support as well as social support to move forward while those who are rich should be given Spiritual education so they could use their wealth for benefit of the people and nation. This is what proper religion should do. Your zakat doesn't achieve that.

Now muslims are arabic dogs.

Yes, trained using a system called Islam.

Mekkah was never the capital nor the centre of power.

Yes it is. Cos Kaabah is in Mecca.

sam1528

Sephiroth posted on 23-6-2014 02:12 PM
by Sam1528
Show me proof that such thing happens first, before you can say your Allah pasted the Moon without any traces. Even your own Muslims are split in three ways on what to think - some say Moon split in Judgement Day, some says it is a real event (happened during Muhammad's time) and some say it is just an illusion.

Oh , you want physical proof? Can you travel back 1400 years. Guarantee I can show you the physical proof. Event like such don't repeat itself. If you can't do that ,  there is such a thing called historical evidence where the intelligent people refer to. This means that you are of lesser intelligence.

That is the tafsir of the Quran. We have the Hadith that state it happens. Why are you arguing about different tafsirs whereas I am referring to the hadith and the historical reference? This shows that you are trying to run from the issue.

Like I said before - prove first something your Al Quran claimed to happened 1,400 years ago before you could ask about something that happened over 10,000 years ago.

Like I stated , can you travel 1400 years back in time? Than I can show you the physical proof. Else , everyone one in this world apart from you would refer to historical sources for evidence. The splitting of the moon has historical evidence but your God in lifting the mountian with its finger do not have any historical evidence. By the way per your logic , we can check the mountain for evidence that it has been lifted. That is your argument. Now you should be able to show the physical evidence that the mountain was lifted from the ground. Ha ha , when it comes to discussing about the Bhagavad Gita you seem to be scared.

Then what is your Allah useful for? Your god so pathetic that he kept on losing to humans when trying to establish ONE F*#KING Muslim Country. And you want us to pray to this ridiculous Arabic god?

Allah has stated in the Quran that the people need to strive to change or help themselves before Allah helps them. The argument can come back to you. Why are your thousands of Gods so useless? Not one of them can make India a Hindu country? Ha ha , no answers from you as usual.

Then the failure of the judicial system will become a human fault. However, if we were to implement Hudud and its kept failing us in preventing crime and worst, give too much power to Muslims over non-Muslims, that could become your religious failure as it is your religion that promotes this ridiculous 7th century nonsense.

Furthermore, Muslims need to remember ONE SIMPLE FACT - ONLY place they qualified to run a Hudud system is in Saudi Arabia. They try it anywhere else, and they have declared a war against non-Muslims and we will answer it accordingly.

How can Hudud fail as it has eliminated the problem , it being the rapist be executed? Elimination of a problem means that there would not be any failure anymore. You 'die die' place your faith in a system which you admit that can fail against a system which eliminates the problem. Then you again demonstrate being of lesser intelligence.

The JAIS raid has already cast the die. You take it being a declaration of war in which you threatened a Hindu Holy War. What has happened? Suddenly you got 'chicken hearted' attack. You talk big but when the time comes you chicken out ..... cluck cluck .... ha ha. Oops , you did answer accordingly ..... you chickened out.

A proper religion should not have two extremes to begin with. Man can be divided according to his personality (caste system) as Hinduism stated - because NOT ALL MEN ARE BORN EQUAL. But distribution of the nation's wealth must be equal to all. Those who are poor should be given more monetary support as well as social support to move forward while those who are rich should be given Spiritual education so they could use their wealth for benefit of the people and nation. This is what proper religion should do. Your zakat doesn't achieve that.

You just provided the evidence that Hinduism is an inferior religion. All men are born equal. What people achieve in life is thru their hard work plus the blessings of Allah. When you provide social support meaning welfare , such is zakat. Zakat is payment for charitable purpose to close the gap between the strata of society thus setting up a welfare syatem. Welfare is for charitable purpose. Zakat is mandatory meaning being charitable is mandatory in Islam.

This zakat system makes Islam multiple times better than Hinduism which teaches that no all men are born equal with an indirect meaning that there is no system to redistribute wealth on charitable purpose. Then what is the use of Hinduism to any society as it teaches men are born not equal due to the hereditary caste system. When you say men are BORN NOT EQUAL , you are affirming that the caste system is hereditary. TQ

Yes, trained using a system called Islam.

Then what about Hindu dogs? Ha ha , dogs also have religion and race wan ah?

Yes it is. Cos Kaabah is in Mecca.

Is the capital in Mekkah or Madinah? A quiz for you. Let see if you can answer. The power of a state resides in the capital or outside the capital?



How issit with your Hindu Holy War? Are you all dressed up like the following


or are you the following :


I think you are the latter .... ha ha

Sephiroth

by Sam1528

Oh , you want physical proof? Can you travel back 1400 years.  

You cannot give physical proof? Then I will conclude your Al Quran is a pack of fictional stories, useless to anyone except those stupid enough to believe in fairy-tales. Thank you.

Allah has stated in the Quran that the people need to strive to change or help themselves before Allah helps them.

IF people can change without your Allah's help, then what the F#*K we need your useless Allah for?

Elimination of a problem means that there would not be any failure anymore.

Very stupid statement. As long as mankind have greed, lust, envy and such, problems always exists. Your Hudud System does NOTHING for these.

All men are born equal.  

That is your bull$hit nonsense. I have never taken any Muslims or Christians as equals to Hindus or Buddhist. And there is no indication that these races are equal to each other. To me, Muslims are just garbage upon this World.

Zakat is mandatory meaning being charitable is mandatory in Islam.

Like I said - Zakat is just a begging system implemented to ensure the poor do not rise against the rulers. It used since Muhammad's time to now.

When you say men are BORN NOT EQUAL , you are affirming that the caste system is hereditary.

When I say men are not born equal, it simply means Men are not born equal. FULL STOP.

The power of a state resides in the capital or outside the capital?

Power of Islam is in Mecca. This does not change. FULLSTOP.

sam1528

Sephiroth posted on 24-6-2014 11:07 AM
by Sam1528
You cannot give physical proof? Then I will conclude your Al Quran is a pack of fictional stories, useless to anyone except those stupid enough to believe in fairy-tales. Thank you.

Can you travel back 1400 years to witness the actual event? Yes or no?

If not what is the issue with historical evidence?

You need to be consistent. Can you now provide evidence to the story that your God lifting the mountain with his finger per the Bhagavad Gita? Why are you running away from this issue? Ha ha , this is where you are very weak in your argument. All I need is to touch the Bhagavad Gita and you would be running out of your skin. You just can't defend fairy tales.

IF people can change without your Allah's help, then what the F#*K we need your useless Allah for?

The guidance comes from Allah but the action to do something is by the persons themselves. This again shows that Hinduism is a passive and a lackadaisical religion. Everything is dependent on the myraid of Hindu Gods whom you people made with your own hands but then worship your own creation. In fact the Hindu Gods should be worshiping you as you made them.

Very stupid statement. As long as mankind have greed, lust, envy and such, problems always exists. Your Hudud System does NOTHING for these.

What is so stupid about it? To get rid of a problem is to eliminate it. Another person would know what awaits him if he tries to rape another. Such is a deterrent. The Hudud addresses such. However in Hinduism , there is no laws but only preaching spirituality. I have shown that India is the 3rd highest nation in terms of rape. Therefore it has been proven , blabbering about spirituality does not help. People toe the line with laws not spirituality.

That is your bull$hit nonsense. I have never taken any Muslims or Christians as equals to Hindus or Buddhist. And there is no indication that these races are equal to each other. To me, Muslims are just garbage upon this World.

You've never taken Christians and Muslims being equals is probably due to the fact that you feel inferior. That is your problem not anyone else and you then try to cover your deficiency by being a bigot. Bigots are people like you who suffer from inferiority complex. I dunno , probably due to your skin color or where you came from - the rubbish dump. There are lots of Hindus who are confident people , unlike you.

Like I said - Zakat is just a begging system implemented to ensure the poor do not rise against the rulers. It used since Muhammad's time to now.

You contradict yourself. Zakat is a welfare system. First you argue for a welfare system and now you argue against it. This is so funny. You have trapped yourself and now you have a problem looking for an exit path. A begging system is when people first beg for money. However zakat is the opposite , the distributors of the $ actively look for the people in need. Big difference here but you are just too dim witted to understand. I don't blame you. Hinduism has shaped your outlook to be a selfish person.

When I say men are not born equal, it simply means Men are not born equal. FULL STOP.

Why is it? You have not provided any evidence of your claim. I understand where you are coming from because of the caste system which is hereditary. Such idea is the scourge of society. In the better religions , like Islam , all men are born equal. What we do in life shape us. That is why the lower caste Hindus readily revert to Islam. This however makes people like you sick. Too bad for you.

Power of Islam is in Mecca. This does not change. FULLSTOP.

Ha  ha, what do you hope to achieve trying to force an issue which you know you are wrong? Has Mekkah ever been the capital of the Islamic world? Yes or No?

In every nation , the governing body resides in the capital. Even a primary 2 kid would understand this. You are a middle aged adult but have problems understanding it. Your mentality is worse than a primary 2 kid. Oops , not mentality but mental disorder - a much more apt description of you.



Ha ha , I want everyone to see this. I have slapped you left and right , mock and taunt you with regards to your boast of waging a Hindu Holy War. You have been neutered by me and now you are impotent (do check out what this mean). This is what happen to people like you - a big talker but an empty vessel. All I can say to you .... cluck ....cluck ....cluck

This is for you :

Sephiroth

by Sam1528

If not what is the issue with historical evidence?

I will ask you the same question. Can you travel back in time 1400 years? IF not, how can you say something you cannot prove as a historical evidence without any proof?

Why are you running away from this issue?

There is no running here. You prove to me that Splitting of the Moon had occurred as stated by your Al Quran - time and date, THEN we will discuss about Sri Krishna's feats.

The guidance comes from Allah but the action to do something is by the persons themselves.  

So you are saying humans are too dumb to think for themselves and requires some Arabic god to think for them? Right ... I guess it was your Allah who came out with modern medicine, Internet, Science and Technology (sarcasm).

To get rid of a problem is to eliminate it. Another person would know what awaits him if he tries to rape another. Such is a deterrent.

Deterrent doesn't change $hit. Even a great country like America learn that the hard way since the Cold War in 1950s to 1990s. Proper religion of God should address the problem which exists within oneself - their own ego, lust, greed and such - and try to eliminate it through Spiritualism. YOUR ISLAM FAILS THESE AND THAT IS WHY YOU NEED HUDUD - TO SCARE THE MUSLIM (ESPECIALLY YOUNGSTERS) INTO BEHAVING LIKE CIVILIZED HUMANS.

In another word - Islam is a failed religion.

You've never taken Christians and Muslims being equals is probably due to the fact that you feel inferior.

Why the F#*K do I have to feel inferior to a group of pigs and dogs???

You contradict yourself. Zakat is a welfare system.

That is your definition, not mine. My definition - Zakat is a begging system, designed to keep the poor from rioting against their Muslim leaders.

Why is it? You have not provided any evidence of your claim.

Why do I need to prove evidence that you (Muslims) equals to me (a Non-Muslim)? You should be the one who is showing the proof why you think Muslims (and christians) are equals to anyone else who are civilized.

That is why the lower caste Hindus readily revert to Islam.

The lower caste pariahs can go to hell with you for all I care. We can find plenty of them in MIC.

Has Mekkah ever been the capital of the Islamic world? Yes or No?

Yes, Mecca IS the capital of Islamic World. Muslims prays to Kaabah there - the symbol of their power and will defend it with all their might if any non-Muslims try to attack it. In doing so, they indirectly protect Saudi Arabia where the Arabs are. Therefore, Muslims are just puppets that used (by the Arabs) to shield themselves from foreigners' attack. This is simple and logical but you Muslims are too stupid to understand that you are being used.

sam1528

Sephiroth posted on 24-6-2014 03:50 PM
by Sam1528
I will ask you the same question. Can you travel back in time 1400 years? IF not, how can you say something you cannot prove as a historical evidence without any proof?

You stated you want physical proof. Ok then , travel back 1400 years to see it. Can you do that? Yes or No?

If not , there is a such a thing called historical evidence. Historical proof comes in the form of independent multiple attestation. This simple thing also you blunder horribly. How do expect to understand more complex issues? The historical proof has been provided. You have nothing to counter except repeating it is not proof. In short you cannot counter my argument.

Ha ha , you again demonstrate your problematic logic. If it is a historical evidence , it means that the proof has already occured some time back in time - therefore the term 'historical evidence'. Ha ha , why are you arguing for the actual happening but then talk about historical evidence? You are a lunatic.

Can you now provide proof that your God lifted a mountain witnessed by thousands in the Bhagavad Gita? You cannot. It confirms that the Bhagavad Gita a book of fairy tales.

There is no running here. You prove to me that Splitting of the Moon had occurred as stated by your Al Quran - time and date, THEN we will discuss about Sri Krishna's feats.

No , I disagree. You are running from the challenge. Both need to provide the proof from their scripture. I can do it with historical evidence that can be checked out by anybody as I have provided the archive reference. You have nothing. That is why you are trying your best to run from this argument. In short , the Bhagavad Gita is just fairy tales. Yet you believe it without evidence. You have blind faith.

So you are saying humans are too dumb to think for themselves and requires some Arabic god to think for them? Right ... I guess it was your Allah who came out with modern medicine, Internet, Science and Technology (sarcasm).

Your words not mine. I stated that humans need to figure out themselves on any action to be taken. Guidance comes from Allah. Guidance and thinking for oneself are 2 different things that complement each other. Ha ha , twisting issues will not get you anywhere. The innovation of modern medicine , technology etc becomes logical when people start thinking with inspirational guidance. This is logical. Unlike you and your Hindu Gods. You just sit back and hope for a miracle from the Gods that you fashion yourself. Ha ha , Hindus like you expect help from the Gods that you yourself created.

Deterrent doesn't change $hit. Even a great country like America learn that the hard way since the Cold War in 1950s to 1990s. Proper religion of God should address the problem which exists within oneself - their own ego, lust, greed and such - and try to eliminate it through Spiritualism. YOUR ISLAM FAILS THESE AND THAT IS WHY YOU NEED HUDUD - TO SCARE THE MUSLIM (ESPECIALLY YOUNGSTERS) INTO BEHAVING LIKE CIVILIZED HUMANS.

In another word - Islam is a failed religion.

Deterrent doesn't change anything? The Cold War is all about deterrence. No one was crazy enough to start nuking each other on fear of the consequence of nuclear war. Even in this issue you got it wrong. Appears that you never seem to get anything right.

Ha ha , what can spirituality do like in Hinduism? Most of the Hindu spiritual gurus are just con men. A good example is Shree Rajneesh. You name it - fornication , murder , con jobs were his specialities (together with his followers). This is even worse than a failed religion , it is an institutionalized con game.

Islam has laws which keep the miscreants in check. This is similar to any country that has laws to keep the peace, You see any country that utilize spirituality to ensure peace? Even in India with a majority Hindu population , it has laws. However Hindus like you have no regard for laws but spirituality. No wonder India is the 3rd top ranking in the crime of rape. Spirituality some more lah ....

Why the F#*K do I have to feel inferior to a group of pigs and dogs???

The psychology of bigots like you is inferiority complex. A good example is that you are going all crazy in this so called debate means that you losing this debate big time. It could also be you are embarrassed feeling inferior due to the colour of your skin. It could also be that you have very poor upbringing coming from a dysfunctional family or from a lower rung of society. I believe it is a combination of all the above. A person who is confident , with good upbringing is very controlled in his / her argument .... like yours truly. Ahem ahem ....

That is your definition, not mine. My definition - Zakat is a begging system, designed to keep the poor from rioting against their Muslim leaders.

Your definition is just your own opinion. Your own opinion doesn't count for anything because you have no evidence in support. The zakat system is a system where the poor is actively being sought after to deliver assistance. This is the purest form of a welfare system. Begging is when the poor goes asking for assistance first before it being provided. These are 2 different scenarios. Yet you fail to understand. This makes you of lesser intelligence. Oh well, you are a Hindu spiritualist , these things are not in your understanding. You only worship the 'lingam' hoping for 'spiritual orgasm'. Ha ha ....

Why do I need to prove evidence that you (Muslims) equals to me (a Non-Muslim)? You should be the one who is showing the proof why you think Muslims (and christians) are equals to anyone else who are civilized.

You make a claim , you provide the evidence. Simple as that. Else your claim is an empty one like your other arguments. How can you say Hindus are civilized , you guys rank 3rd in the world for rape. You burn widows ('sutee') , you have hereditary caste system - religious apartheid.

The lower caste pariahs can go to hell with you for all I care. We can find plenty of them in MIC

TQ , this again show that you are so deeply entrenched in the hereditary caste system that you don't care for your fellow Hindus who are of a lower caste than you. Any lower caste than a dalit like you? Else you are one of those who are so embarrassed of their caste - inferiority complex again.

Yes, Mecca IS the capital of Islamic World. Muslims prays to Kaabah there - the symbol of their power and will defend it with all their might if any non-Muslims try to attack it. In doing so, they indirectly protect Saudi Arabia where the Arabs are. Therefore, Muslims are just puppets that used (by the Arabs) to shield themselves from foreigners' attack. This is simple and logical but you Muslims are too stupid to understand that you are being used

Mekkah has never been the capital of the Islamic world. Which temple did you learn this from? Mekkah is the center for prayers - yes , meaning its a center for spirituality. Yes , we do have spirituality in Islam. Of course muslims would protect their holy site. Just like Hindus in the like of you who would 'die die' protect the places where your Gods in Ram and Krishna were allegedly  born. This is even better , you are just puppets of the Brahmin caste then. In other words you are admitting that you are too dim witted to understand that you are just a puppet to the brahmins. Ha ha ....



So how. How are you coping being a chicken in your Hindu Holy War? You chickened out because your priest did not bless you to have a braver heart or your priest is also a chicken heart. Ha ha .....

Sephiroth

by Sam1528

If not , there is a such a thing called historical evidence. Historical proof comes in the form of independent multiple attestation.

Without any physical proof, there is no such thing as historical evidence. It is just a group of Arab wannabees who all sings the same Arabic tune for various reasons - zealots, money, women or fame. They do not present any "evidence". You want to show me evidence, show me the physical proof of your god's feats. Otherwise, shut the F%*K up.

I can do it with historical evidence that can be checked out by anybody as I have provided the archive reference.

You can do $hit about anything from Al Quran. All you (Muslims) can come out with are fairy-tales agreed by those who are like you also - an Arab wannabee.

I stated that humans need to figure out themselves on any action to be taken. Guidance comes from Allah.  

And I stated if humans need to figure out for themselves, they don't need any $hit from Allah.

Telling that you need to think for yourself but at same time have to follow an Arab god's guidance to think is contradicting with each other. IF you need an Arab god to think for you, then why you need to figure anything for yourself? Just follow what the Arab (Muhammad) and his alter ego (Allah) said like a good herded animal.

Deterrent doesn't change anything? The Cold War is all about deterrence. No one was crazy enough to start nuking each other on fear of the consequence of nuclear war.

And that started something even worse than nuclear war - Terrorism. IF it is not for the Cold Wars between Soviet and USA, do you think CIA could have choose Osama Bin Laden as their agent in Afghanistan and supported Talibans? Do you think Talibans could have able to grow so much that it could spread its evil elsewhere? NO, Cold War helped Taliban to spread and that was done because two groups afraid to nuke each other.

Frankly speaking, they (Soviet and USA) should have nuked themselves and the rest of the World. At least we (non-Muslims) could have afresh start in life and don't have to deal with you people (Muslims).

The psychology of bigots like you is inferiority complex.

Whatever. Like I have to be bothered about a psychological analyse from an Arab wannabee.

Your definition is just your own opinion.

And my opinion on zakat system stands.

You make a claim , you provide the evidence.

I'm not claiming Muslims are equal to non-Muslims. YOU ARE. To me, no one is born equal. Equality is just some bull$hit concept brought by the Christians who behave like thieves, robbers and rapists but want to sit at the same place as decent folks.

... you don't care for your fellow Hindus who are of a lower caste than you.

You are right. I don't care about other "lower caste" ba$tards? They want to become Christians or Muslims - their choice. They want to call themselves secular and wash the rear end of Muslims and Christians to survive (like many in India) - their choice also. WHY should I be bothered about them?

Mekkah has never been the capital of the Islamic world.

Repeating the same statement over and over again doesn't make it right. FACT - Mecca IS capital of Islamic world - because Kaabah is there. FULL STOP.

sam1528

Sephiroth posted on 25-6-2014 10:21 AM
by Sam1528
Without any physical proof, there is no such thing as historical evidence. It is just a group of Arab wannabees who all sings the same Arabic tune for various reasons - zealots, money, women or fame. They do not present any "evidence". You want to show me evidence, show me the physical proof of your god's feats. Otherwise, shut the F%*K up.

To have physical proof you need to travel back in time. You admit you cannot do it. Therefore we rely on history. What do you mean there is no historical evidence? How do you think historians prove that something has occurred in the past? Its all down to historical evidence in which I have the support the event of splitting of the moon.

On the other hand you have nothing being historical evidence in support of the Bhagavad Gita in which your God lifted a mountain supposedly witnessed by thousands.

You contradict yourself. You argue for physical evidence but admit that you cannot travel back in time. What is your solution?

You can do $hit about anything from Al Quran. All you (Muslims) can come out with are fairy-tales agreed by those who are like you also - an Arab wannabee.

Another baseless argument or blabber from you. Fairy tale is when there is no evidence of what has been claimed. The Quran has historical evidence which you admit. However the Bhagavad Gita has no evidence of its claim which makes it fairy tales. However you are scared to even talk about the Bhagavad Gita.

And I stated if humans need to figure out for themselves, they don't need any $hit from Allah.

Telling that you need to think for yourself but at same time have to follow an Arab god's guidance to think is contradicting with each other. IF you need an Arab god to think for you, then why you need to figure anything for yourself? Just follow what the Arab (Muhammad) and his alter ego (Allah) said like a good herded animal.

To figure for themselves , guidance and inspiration is needed. Allah provides it. Where is the contradiction? Ha ha , now Allah's guidance is contradicting one another. Once again no evidence from you aka farting thru your mouth. In turn , are you not a herded animal? You believe in the Bhagavad Gita , a book that cannot be verified by any independent sources. You are even worse.

And that started something even worse than nuclear war - Terrorism. IF it is not for the Cold Wars between Soviet and USA, do you think CIA could have choose Osama Bin Laden as their agent in Afghanistan and supported Talibans? Do you think Talibans could have able to grow so much that it could spread its evil elsewhere? NO, Cold War helped Taliban to spread and that was done because two groups afraid to nuke each other.

Frankly speaking, they (Soviet and USA) should have nuked themselves and the rest of the World. At least we (non-Muslims) could have afresh start in life and don't have to deal with you people (Muslims).

Then the root cause for terrorism and the existence of the Taliban is the USA not Islam. You have just admitted to such. That means your argument so far that Islam is the cause of terrorism is just bunkum.

If the then 2 superpowers had nuked each other , Hindus like you would have been nuclear fodder. There would be nothing left. You don't seem to be able to think straight.

Whatever. Like I have to be bothered about a psychological analyse from an Arab wannabee.

Meaning you agree with me that you suffer from inferiority complex. TQ

And my opinion on zakat system stands.

An opinion without evidence is useless , just like you.

I'm not claiming Muslims are equal to non-Muslims. YOU ARE. To me, no one is born equal. Equality is just some bull$hit concept brought by the Christians who behave like thieves, robbers and rapists but want to sit at the same place as decent folks.

TQ again. This shows that Hinduism teaches bigotry with the hereditary caste system. You are infact a bigot who suffer from inferiority complex , as all bigots do.

You are right. I don't care about other "lower caste" ba$tards? They want to become Christians or Muslims - their choice. They want to call themselves secular and wash the rear end of Muslims and Christians to survive (like many in India) - their choice also. WHY should I be bothered about them?

TQ again. This shows your fear and desperation that once these people leave Hinduism they will never come back because they are off to a better life. In reality you cannot do anything about them and it is eating you up. Hence your false facade of you couldn't be bothered.

Repeating the same statement over and over again doesn't make it right. FACT - Mecca IS capital of Islamic world - because Kaabah is there. FULL STOP.

You should then remind yourself that repeating something over and over again doesn't make it a fact. The fact is that Mekkah has never been the center of power in the Islamic world even in the time of the Ottomans. The Kaabah is there making Mekkah the center of Islam spiritualism. Spirituality and political power are 2 different things.

Sephiroth

by Sam1528

To have physical proof you need to travel back in time.  

That means you have no proof lah. Just say you have no proof. Talk so much for what?

The Quran has historical evidence which you admit.

Oi a$$hole, when did I admit anything? To me Al Quran is a fairy-tale nonsense, and that is all I could admit.

To figure for themselves , guidance and inspiration is needed.

No, to figure something for themselves, they should sit down and discuss the matter, NOT READ SOME FAIRY TALE BOOK AND PRETEND SOME ARAB GOD GONNA SAVE THEM. BODOH.

Then the root cause for terrorism and the existence of the Taliban is the USA not Islam.

Then are you saying everyone who dies in terrorism act are against Islam and will be in Hell?

An opinion without evidence is useless , just like you.

You don't need evidence for personal opinion. And my personal opinion is Zakat System is a begging system designed to ensure the poor remain dumb, stupid and in control of the politically powerful (like BN) and their Muallahs.

This shows that Hinduism teaches bigotry with the hereditary caste system.  

Whatever.

... once these people leave Hinduism they will never come back because they are off to a better life.

Good for them. Why should I be bothered about some pariah leaving Hinduism?

You should then remind yourself that repeating something over and over again doesn't make it a fact.

You are the one repeating it over and over. My stance is firm - Islam is a political system with Mecca as its (religious capital) and the Arabs as your bosses. This is fact, and you are the one who was arguing against it, not me.

sam1528

Sephiroth posted on 25-6-2014 01:22 PM
by Sam1528
That means you have no proof lah. Just say you have no proof. Talk so much for what?

Proof given but you chicken hearted - scared to check. Too bad for you. You are just burying your head in the sand.

Oi a$$hole, when did I admit anything? To me Al Quran is a fairy-tale nonsense, and that is all I could admit.

The why you talk about historical evidence? Is the Bhagavad Gita a book of fairy tales? It is worse , no evidence at all. Why so scared to comment?

No, to figure something for themselves, they should sit down and discuss the matter, NOT READ SOME FAIRY TALE BOOK AND PRETEND SOME ARAB GOD GONNA SAVE THEM. BODOH.

Such is being done. That is what is call consensus. This again shows that you don't know what you are talking about. Ha ha , You still don't want to admit that teh Bhagavad Gita is a book of fairy tales.

Then are you saying everyone who dies in terrorism act are against Islam and will be in Hell?

Terrorism is against Islam. The point here you admitted that the US is the cause of it not Islam. Trying to change the topic?

You don't need evidence for personal opinion. And my personal opinion is Zakat System is a begging system designed to ensure the poor remain dumb, stupid and in control of the politically powerful (like BN) and their Muallahs.

When you discuss a opinion it has to have the backing of evidence. Else its useless like you.How can it be begging system as the needy are sought after first rather than the needy asking in the first place. This is again superior to Hinduism as there is no welfare system in Hinduism. No wonder you have inferiority complex.

Whatever.

TQ for admitting that Hinduism teaches bigotry with the hereditary caste system.

Good for them. Why should I be bothered about some pariah leaving Hinduism?

You are not bothered or you cannot do anything? Its the latter and it is eating and burning you up in the inside. Too bad for you

You are the one repeating it over and over. My stance is firm - Islam is a political system with Mecca as its (religious capital) and the Arabs as your bosses. This is fact, and you are the one who was arguing against it, not me.

Repeating to correct you as you are making the same mistake over and over again. Religious capital is different from a political capital. Ha ha such a simple issue you git it horribly wrong. Against what? Can you be specific?



So how is your one person Hindu Holy War getting along? Since you have chickened out , where are you hiding?