IMPERFECT GOD/BRAHMAN/ALLAH/JEHOVA

barney50

1. respomded by Iman_6: Somehow, I agreed with our former PM, Tun M, saying that all islamic nations should join force to build own high tech warfares to protect themselves from the increasing discrimination, aggression of non-muslims against muslim.

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That is a strong statement by the ex PM. Non Muslims? What does he mean? Is China against Muslims? Is India against Muslims? Is Thailand against Muslims? Is Sri Lanka against Muslims? Is Myanmar against Muslims? Is Vietnam against Muslims? Is Japan against Muslims? Is Korea against Muslims? Please tell me who are the non Muslims against Muslims. As a senior politician and an ex priminister who had dealings with these countries during his tenture in office  should not throw such statement blindly. He should be specific and tell the world who are the enemies of Muslims and not speak in general. May be he is losing his bearing as age as caught up with him. Arming themselves would only bring more chaos into the world and it would give more the reason for super powers to attack Islamic countries. Muslim countries should first rectify their own standing in the world arena if they need to co-exist with non Ismamic countries. Do not only think of Muslim countires alone but speak for world peace and understanding. I have seen and listen many times our leaders as well as other Muslim country leaders speak only for the benefit of Muslims around the world but never spoke for peace of all people in the planet.

Just ask yourself why does the west dissident  Muslim countries? When disaster struct these countries the west are the first to lend a helping hand. Although other nations do help but you cannot deny America's and Britons help and in Asia Japan would be the first to lend a helping hand. See their imput in Indonesia and all this is because we all feel the world is an oyster we are the pearls in it. We need each other to survive and help each other to progress. No nation can stand on its own without the other nations as pillars. Just as Singapore needs us as we need Singapore that is because of trade economy. So are other nations. Never use emotions to play our mind. If there is any difference it can be solved and that is why we create embassies and  ambassadors in other countries. Arming yourself with sofosticated weapons would only create more tenssion and agression. It is not  what GOD planned  nor is it good for mankind. I think our ex PM Tun is losing his touch and it is best he is left alone to rest.

Originally posted by barney50 at 14-7-2006 04:05 PM

Just because they have a different method of approach does not necessarily mean they are non believers because only GOD knows.

Do you believe that there is only ONE God/ONE Creator? Do you believe that there is only one approach to your Maker and it is not through the multitiudes of gods or the carvings to symbolize God?

Do you believe that Muhammad was the final prophet from God?

If you do than you抮e a believer.

Originally posted by barney50

But you know the punishment because it is state in the syariah laws which is interepreted by the hadiths. As I have said it is an unforgivable sin for those who hurt, kill, rape, rob or cheat others than apostacy. Because GOD knows best and it is notfor man to decide how one should approach GOD.

You抮e making a decision there yourself. Are you not a man?

Originally posted by barney50 Likeiwise I too disagree as I have my own thoughts and my rational thinking.

That is called the 揑 shall not allow myself to  lose to you

Originally posted by barney50 at 14-7-2006 04:33 PM
  
O.K since you are going in that direction let me ask you this, what makes you pretty sure that you are worshiping GOD and not some other spirit. What really makes you sure? You may think in your hear that it is GOD  butmay be it is not but a spirit of soem kind. GOD had said the devil to can impersonate me so did you for one second stop to think it could be the devil that disguised it self as GOD and pretended to be the angel gabriel too. Have youthought of that for a moment. Please use your loigic and stop talking nonsence like a stuburn child refusing to believe that the bitter medicine would cure his sickness. I know of learened Musims who had agreed with me but you seem ot think you know all. That is pathetic.

What has that got to do with my statement saying that even if there are no people believing in Him God is still God?  God is the source. God is The Creator. Everything else is creation by Him and His existence, His Power  does not depend on how many of His creation believe in Him. If He is in need He is not God. He抯 not a politician who depends on votes. He invites, He reminds, He commands, YES. But He is not dependent. If you are shaky about that and starts asking those sort of questions that you suggest, it only  shows that you have no faith that  He is the Source. The one who should be asked the above questions is YOU - to yourself, because you have doubts about that very fundamental point.   

Originally posted by barney50 at 14-7-2006 04:33 PM

Same with you friend. Unless you want to.

Again, the usual 揑 shall not allow myself to lose to you

barney50

1. Do you believe that there is only ONE God/ONE Creator? Do you believe that there is only one approach to your Maker and it is not through the multitiudes of gods or the carvings to symbolize God?
   
2. 
   
3. Do you believe that Muhammad was the final prophet from God?
   
4. 
   
5. If you do than you抮e a believer.

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It sounds silly as I too can ask you the same question but in a different format. But I'll still answer your question.

I believe there is only one CREATOR. No, I do not believe so as approach can be in many ways. No one man is right as far as religion is concern. Nations where there were no divine beings adopted other faiths as their. Like Malays who once prayed to spiritts of the jungle adopted Hinduism as their relgion and when Islam came they adopted Islam.
No I do not believe Mohammed was a prophet of GOD but a reformer of his ancesstors religion. But you cannot assess me by my approach and it is for GOd to know who is right and who is wrong.

1. You抮e making a decision there yourself. Are you not a man?

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The decision I make is good for mankind whereas yours brings disunity and hatred.

[code] That is called the 揑 shall not allow myself to  lose to you

barney50

1. Focus point means God. When we pray too, our focus point is God The Creator
   
2. 
   
3. You can twist the facts about the Kaabah and the black stone whilst we cannot tell the truth about your carved statues? Why do you need to give thousands of names to a focus point? Why do you need to carve them in  the shape of animate objects if they are mere focus points?. Why do you house them in temples and worship them?

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Good question. The carved statues be it in any form is a focus point to Hindus. In Hinduism we have 1008 names are to describe GOD unlike Muslims who only have 99 names to describe the Supreme Being. The shaves are insignificant but to make it look realistic and not just place a ugly stone the sculptors create these figures as written according to the scriptures. We prefer to have an object in a temple because it gives us a spiritual aspiration and assurance that GOD is close to us. Unlike the Mosque which is so empty and no would have any feelings of presence of GOD but just follow what the imam says and off they go thinking they have done their duty as instructed by the koran and hatred for the Jews and non believers. That is what the Muslims feel after Friday prayers. But not the Hindus. Instead we feel we have been graced by GOD and that we return home with a clean mind with love for all and peace at mind.

1. The difference is  like the sky and the earth. You go around the temple and utter the name of the stone gods inside the temple. Get rid of them, then maybe you can claim you are similar to us. Right now you are not even distantly close. Period.

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Ignorant thoughts some of you have against Hinuism. We go around the temple uttering the names and glory of GOD and pray for world peace not pray the non believers and Jews would be destroyed. Why should we rid of the true path just because Mohammed said his is the true path? You must be kidding. The closeness to GOD is for HIM to decide not you or any Muslims. As a matter of fact no one knows for fact where Mohammed is or any of our Rishis are. We only believe what has been written but no proof of claim. But if you die and return to me and claim what you have seen or experienced than may be I would believe you otherwise it is all in the mind.

[code]Firstly, the black stone is not inside the Kaabah. Get that right. And.... Its still a stone and we consider it a stone. If for some sentimental reason you love the door of your house and you kiss it, it doesn抰 mean that you believe that the door is your Creator.  For Islam and for Muslims, God only means one thing

barney50

1. What has that got to do with my statement saying that even if there are no people believing in Him God is still God?  God is the source. God is The Creator. Everything else is creation by Him and His existence, His Power  does not depend on how many of His creation believe in Him. If He is in need He is not God. He抯 not a politician who depends on votes. He invites, He reminds, He commands, YES. But He is not dependent. If you are shaky about that and starts asking those sort of questions that you suggest, it only  shows that you have no faith that  He is the Source. The one who should be asked the above questions is YOU - to yourself, because you have doubts about that very fundamental point.

Copy the Code

But Muslims make HIM to be one. You demand that HE be accepted as one so who is making HIm to be a politician but Muslims alone. You use HIM to fulfill you policital agenda. GOD and spiritulaism is personal but you are trying to make it a political gain by compeling others to accept HIM the way you feel is right. If HE is not dependent than why compel others to call HIM Allah? Looks like without Muslims HE would not be reconized. That is what all this drama about Islam being the true relgion of GOD and Allah is the only GOD and Mohammed is HIS last prophet? No need for all the assurance if Allah is not dependent. I have no doubts as to the existence of GOD but it is Muslims like you who have doubts therwise you need not worry about the others who show their love for GOD in their own way. You have doubts when Muslims apostate fearing there would be exodus of Muslims would follow suit. So the law of punistment is applied to Muslims who apostate. So who is having doubts of HIS existence? Think and think again....

[code]Again, the usual 揑 shall not allow myself to lose to you

Originally posted by barney50 at 18-7-2006 12:00 PM
What has that got to do with my statement saying that even if there are no people believing in Him God is still God?  God is the source. God is The Creator. Everything else is creation by Him and H ...

Hikayat dan ceriter Hinduisma nih semuer citer karut & dongeng jer, tak boleh pakai  :nerd:

barney50

POPOY,

Sama aja seperti dengan cerita dongeng Islam. Allah tu ciptaan orang Arab khsusunya Mohammed. Dahlah tu mimpi lagi pula surga yang langsung tak wujud tapi hanya dalam mimpi pengikut Islam. Kalau nak cerita dongeng banyak boleh di cari dalam perpustakan negara.

Originally posted by barney50 at 18-7-2006 02:30 PM
POPOY,

Sama aja seperti dengan cerita dongeng Islam. Allah tu ciptaan orang Arab khsusunya Mohammed. Dahlah tu mimpi lagi pula surga yang langsung tak wujud tapi hanya dalam mimpi pengikut Islam ...

kalo ko ada akal ko akan berfikir. Cerita hayalan dlm hinduisme itu semuer dongeng. Itu pasal sgt mudah bagi org melayu tok nenek aku tinggalkan ugama hindu. Sebab semuer tak masuk akal. org berakal akan berfikir. malangnyer sampai sekarang serpihan karut tu ader lagi.

barney50

POPOY,
Yang tak masuk akal ia lah kamu seorang. Kerana saya dah kata semua cerita tentang agama itu ceruita karut termasuk Islam. Pakar kaji agama telah pun buktikan nabi musa dan nabi yang sebut dalam al kuran itu cerita reka jadi apa lagi? Allah, Jehova, Esa, Brahma, Vishnu atau pun Shiva semua cerit dongeng. Mana ada Allah mana ada surga, ini semau rekaan manusia untuk buang masa pada waktu zaman dahalu supaya masa akan lalu. Ynag tak ada kerja reka cerita seperti koran dan sabaginya kemudian paksa manusia terima cerita meraka. kerana itulah berjuta manusia mati akibat kepercayaan pada apa yang tak wuijud. Kalau nak jadi bodoh hingga habis hayat percayalah kamu. Pada saya itu tak kessah kerana saya bebas.

BeanDiesel

guys,
make sure you don't just claim something, prove it. remember, our guidelines states that if your claim is something you can't verify, just say that it's your personal opinon.
Thanks.

Originally posted by barney50 at 18-7-2006 03:02 PM
POPOY,
Yang tak masuk akal ia lah kamu seorang. Kerana saya dah kata semua cerita tentang agama itu ceruita karut termasuk Islam. Pakar kaji agama telah pun buktikan nabi musa dan nabi yang sebut ...

Ko nak  buktikan hinduism itu bukan hayalan dan tahyul  ko kene sebut semuer ugama dongeng - begitu ker cara ko membuktikan? maner fakta sejarah ko yg kater nabi musa tu dongeng? kalo ko ikut fikiran giler yg ko ajukan last sekali ko pun ko kater takder

[ Last edited by  POPOY at 18-7-2006 03:44 PM ]

barney50

Question time:

1. Can any of you tell me where does GOD live or stays?

2. Can anyone tell me what is GOD doing now?

3. If God is believed to be all powerful and Omnipresent that HE created the universe than why does GOD need a messanger? He could have just wished and all mankind would be righteous and follow HIS instruction but HE was not able to do that isn't it?

4. If GOD is what Muslims , Jews and Christians claim to be why are these three races in logger heads with each other to prove their claim?

5. If GOD is what the Muslims calim why are there no much sufferings in Muslim nations? Poverty, internal war, killing own race to proof their point and killing innocent people outside their nation. Was this the instruction of their prophet to kill others in order to retain their strenght?

6. If GOd of the Jews was believed to have spoken to Moses in Mount Senai directly, why did HE not speak to Mohammed directly instead send angel Gabirel? Was HE not free to speak to Mohammed?

7. If GOD of Islam is the same GOD of the Isrealis how come Isreal surrounded by Muslim countries oppose Islam and stay strong against Muslims. Looks like the GOD of the Jews does not agree with the GOD of the Muslims . That is why there is war now between the Muslim GOD and the Jews GOD. Who would win in the end?

8. If paradise is the place man should look forward to than why create man on earth? Should have created man in the so called Paradise. Well, may be the Muslim GOD needs something to play with so man became HIS play thing uh!?.......Like putting the mice in the maze to see if it can find its way back uh!.. Or may be all these are fairytales to kill time in the desert. No other entertainment in the desert except story telling like the bushmen of the Kalahari desert.

9. The GOD of the Jews gave 10 commandments to Moses and than decided HE made a mistake and gave new commandments to Mohammed. So GOD made mistake uh!?..............

10. Why was it so difficult for GOD of Islam to change the mind of the Arab pagans? HE could not do it on HIS own so HE had to appoint an illetrate like Mohammed to tell the pagan Arabs that Allah wants them to leave their old pagan relgion and ambrace a new faith? Why? Did HE not have the power to change? So no power than how could HE become Allah the Al" Mighty? If Allah is Al' MIghty than HE should be able to change everything at a blink of an eye. Any particular reason why HE could not?


Hope some expert would reply.

Originally posted by barney50 at 18-7-2006 04:00 PM
Question time:

1. Can any of you tell me where does GOD live or stays?

2. Can anyone tell me what is GOD doing now?

3. If God is believed to be all powerful and Omnipresent that HE created ...

pertanyaan org jahil. nak suruh kiter letak tuhan tercogok mcm patung2 dlm tokong dier tu baru percayer ader tuhan

Ko tengok ler diri ko sendiri. ko boleh bercakap, ko boleh berfikir, kor boleh melihat, ko boleh bernafas tu. ko ingat ko punyer sendiri? ha? sedangkan robot lagi manusia yg buat. Inikan pulak ko dan aku. Patung yg ko ukir tu pun ader pembuat - ko!

[ Last edited by  POPOY at 18-7-2006 04:32 PM ]

Originally posted by POPOY at 18-7-2006 04:20 PM


pertanyaan org jahil. nak suruh kiter letak tuhan tercogok mcm patung2 dlm tokong dier tu baru percayer ader tuhan

Ko tengok ler diri ko sendiri. ko boleh bercakap, ko boleh berfikir, kor bo ...

Simple as Popoy may be, his points are logical. Take a look at yourself Barney and take a look at robots and the idols you carve

Originally posted by KENNKID at 18-7-2006 04:37 PM


Simple as Popoy may be, his points are logical. Take a look at yourself Barney and take a look at robots and the idols you carve  

Sesempoy sempoy aku jgn ingat aku tak berisi

Si Barney pernah bacer hadith ni tak? Ini hadtih Qudsi, bukan calang2 hadith dan ia diwahyukan kepada Rasulullah oleh Allah Ta'ala:

"Aku adalah perbendaharaan yg tersembunyi, oleh kerana Aku kasih maka aku ciptakan makhluk suci (roh engkau) agar ia mengenal akan Aku"

barney50

1. responded by KENNKID:Simple as Popoy may be, his points are logical. Take a look at yourself Barney and take a look at robots and the idols you carve

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Like birds of feather flocks together. That's what he is and so are you. The carved idols they may be but it helps Hindus focus their mind to GOD and not to some empty room you call a place of worship. You ways suits you and our ways suits us. If you say yours is the right way so is ours. There is no one single path to GOD and shouting on top of your voice does not mean GOD listens to your call. I can deny GOD and yet I can ambrace HIM and that is the beauty of my religion. Can you do the same? I know you cannot because you have been warned that if you do so you would burn in hell. Is that what you understand about GOD in your religion? It is a shame but you can do nothing about it because its fear and that fear would lead you to an emptiness.

Originally posted by barney50 at 19-7-2006 06:21 AM
Like birds of feather flocks together. That's what he is and so are you. The carved idols they may be but it helps Hindus focus their mind to GOD and not to some empty room you call a place of worship. You ways suits you and our ways suits us. If you say yours is the right way so is ours. There is no one single path to GOD and shouting on top of your voice does not mean GOD listens to your call. I can deny GOD and yet I can ambrace HIM and that is the beauty of my religion. Can you do the same? I know you cannot because you have been warned that if you do so you would burn in hell. Is that what you understand about GOD in your religion? It is a shame but you can do nothing about it because its fear and that fear would lead you to an emptiness.  

The strength of the focus of the mind and soul in God's name and His Attributes is a communication of the mind and soul to The Almighty - full concentration, without any need for some artificial carved 'imagination' of Him (in your case, them instead of Him).  This is pure,  more powerful and certainly the real form of man-Maker contact.  You see 'emptiness'  because, like all other primitive religions, primitive people need to 'see' albeit just false images, in order to be convinced. As humans become more progressive they are more ready to focus with their mind and soul. You can have millions of carved idols as ' focus' but they remain carved idols and when you reach a stage when the human race becomes  more intelligent, compared to primitive members of society, you don't need such things anymore, you are ready to go to greater heights. That way is the complete submission to The Creator (Islam).

[ Last edited by  KENNKID at 19-7-2006 06:41 AM ]

barney50

1. responded by KRENNKID:The strength of the focus of the mind and soul in God's name and His Attributes is a communication of the mind and soul to The Almighty - full concentration, without any need for some artificial carved 'imagination' of Him (in your case, them instead of Him).  This is pure,  more powerful and certainly the real form of man-Maker contact.  You see 'emptiness'  because, like all other primitive religions, primitive people need to 'see' albeit just false images, in order to be convinced. As humans become more progressive they are more ready to focus with their mind and soul. You can have millions of carved idols as ' focus' but they remain carved idols and when you reach a stage when the human race becomes  more intelligent, compared to primitive members of society, you don't need such things anymore, you are ready to go to greater heights. That way is the complete submission to The Creator (Islam).

Copy the Code

Oh! you mean as a baby you have been looking at you mother and would miss her when she is not around. Now that you are grown up you do not need to look at her face nor need her beside you. Such an ungreatful son you are. That is not Hinduism you think. Hinduism is a unique system that would show you the path to GODHEAD through series of ways for students and enlightened. It tells you that you can focus with or without an image. The primitive way you mentioned are trible worship of spirits of air, water, earth, fire and viod. But do you  know that they have more peace and contended life than people who say tcondemn them as pagans..

It is carved idols for those who think so but not to them. That is because they can feel and sense the presence of the spirits which you can't. The difference is they believe but you do not. Does that make you smart? No, becuase you are missing something that you are unaware of. If you say devils do not exist does it mean it does not exist? It is the same with all others. You have chosen a path that you believe you are right because it says so and I believe my path is right too because it has proven so. The creator you speak of is no where to be seen but the creator I speak of is right where I can see and feel and experience all my life.

Originally posted by barney50 at 19-7-2006 07:00 AM
Oh! you mean as a baby you have been looking at you mother and would miss her when she is not around. Now that you are grown up you do not need to look at her face nor need her beside you. Such an ungreatful son you are.

Who's talking about mothers and babies here?