IMPERFECT GOD/BRAHMAN/ALLAH/JEHOVA

barney50

1. Never made an idols? never kissed? How do you know? no fact no reasoning? Ok if never then what is the relevance fo the discussion anyway?

Copy the Code

pease read posting. I said there were 360 idols. The same as you believe Mohammed would not have. The relevence before islam it was not kissed but only after Mohammed introduced this new relgion Islam and he set the ball rolling.

1. Probably Barney... but some says for another reason too, and some no importance of it.
   
2. 
   
3. Since we were talking about Hajj, I clearly mentioned no importance of it for Hajj.

Copy the Code

O.K if you say so.

[ode] BTW, If no comment from him, means nothing important for 'umat' for sure, nothing really matter in religious term, if that was obligatory, surely he already told to obeyed... but he didn't say anything, so should we invent stories?

Perhaps there is a God's secret about it, but that was not important for us to know and remain the secret of God, and again we can't just invent a story.[/code]

You see my friend, has Mohammed given any reason why they have to go around the Kaaba seven times in anti clockwise direction? He did not and so kissing the black stone too he did not give reason but motted his followers to do so. He has a reason otherwise he would not practice it but did not want to give the reason because none dare ask him why so.

1. See the reason above, in Islam we don't invent something new in religious matter, unlike other religion who made invention of religious matter to suit themselves.

Copy the Code

Many new interpretations are being made so is it not new invention?

1. If it is important in religious matter, prophet Muhammad would have told us.
   
2. 
   
3. And why we be so naive when kissing something must into worshiping? That's not Islam.

Copy the Code

As I have said above he did not wish to give reason because none were interested in knowing the reason.

1. Didn't you read that prophet Muhammad put it in its original place again, in the corner as prophet Abraham put there previously.

Copy the Code

That is what I said and may be prophet Moses too worshiped it but not mentioned in the OT. Or it was ommitted by the rabbies later after his death. Anything could be possible don't you think so?

1. Now get the fact straight please, I clearly said in "rememberance of 'my glorious prophets'... 'glorious history of my religion'" and none glorifying an idol (stone).

Copy the Code

It is ok. No one is going to make fun of you if you do both or otherwise. I said because such practice is proof of glorifying. But I did not say you glorify the BS but GOD through it as Hindus.

[code] Barney, if you really think that we worship black stone, then nevermind, I'm gonna leave you with that thought.

However my message delivered to you clearly, Islam is no idolatry.[code]

It does not matter how you worship GOD as long as GOD is worshiped and I'm happy about it.

[code] No Barney... eventhough it fell from heaven as you assume or whatever it came rom, we ony worship Allah, never an idols nor other thing.

However we could love the blackstone, surely, but that's it. No more than that. True love and worship only for Allah.  

So you see the follower of idolatry like you a Hiduism might think that strict monotheism religion such as Islam has 'something idolatry to effect' while conducting our religious activities which might seem in your eyes as the same spirit of your action, perhaps because you saw it from different perspective than us, based on your religious logic and reasoning, but when it comes to Islamic perspective, whatever we do should be free from idolatry thing, not just action, but also intention. I think that should clear enough /code]

Am I forcing you to accept my opinion? No, I merely said what I feel about Islam and its practice and Mohammed as a reformer of his ancesstors religion which he revolutionize it and called it Islam [which means surrender].

BeanDiesel

I see you both have been discussing ethically. (of course I didn't read in detail each one of them, but looking at the last few, they seem clean.)
So I'm rewarding you both 30 credits each for your effort, cashed to your last two posts.

So which one is true? God or allah or brahman or jehova?

[ Last edited by  davidchemic at 23-7-2006 03:20 PM ]

Truth.8

Originally posted by davidchemic at 22-7-2006 10:56 AM
So which one is true? God or allah or brahman or jehova?

very simple.

God that do not need to be worshipped in forms of  idols like  golds, silver , procelain , woods, plastice and etc
God that do not need an so called direction to worhsipped HIM and bowing indirectly to an object.

so, it is a twoness faith which  valued God as Almighty without any images or likness...meaning God is spirit and we worshipped HIM spiritually.

[ Last edited by  Truth.8 at 22-7-2006 11:42 AM ]

Originally posted by Truth.8 at 22-7-2006 11:33 AM


very simple.

God that do not need to be worshipped in forms of  idols like  golds, silver , procelain , woods, plastice and etc
God that do not need an so called direction to worhsipped HIM ...

So-called God that  needs  to come in  the form of a man to convince pagans who cannot run away from paganism

Truth.8

Originally posted by KENNKID at 22-7-2006 11:48 AM


So-called God that  needs  to come in  the form of a man to convince pagans who cannot run away from paganism

dont forget the so called claimed by u hve touched millions heart frm going to pagans. one example myself where i bow indirectly to an object 5x a day but saying god is one= pagan. now i hve been touhced the real God who came to down to earth to exposed the real truth.

Originally posted by Truth.8 at 22-7-2006 11:52 AM



dont forget the so called claimed by u hve touched millions heart frm going to pagans. one example myself where i bow indirectly to an object 5x a day but saying god is one= pagan. now i hve  ...

Thats your big lie to us.

But just to satisfy you into sticking to your compulsive lying habit, it only reflects your own level of intelligence. Nobody asked you to bow to an object, but because you kept  relating it to your christian pagan  habit, you still couldn't differentiate and your intelligence was not strong enough to differentiate & distinguish between just a point of direction and an idol.  So, you decided to return to your true self - the eternal pagan. Thats where  you remain, back to square one - Paul's pagan   

[ Last edited by  KENNKID at 22-7-2006 11:59 AM ]

Originally posted by Truth.8 at 22-7-2006 11:52 AM



dont forget the so called claimed by u hve touched millions heart frm going to pagans. one example myself where i bow indirectly to an object 5x a day but saying god is one= pagan. now i hve  ...

i doubt you are a muslim before.  i think you are a liar. i challenge you to prove you were a muslim. in fact i think you are not even a true christian since your knowledge on christian is also shallow. you are neither here nor there. i think if a buddhist comes a long and preach to you, you will claim yourself as a buddhist.

barney50

Let him say what he wants but that does not mean others are wrong. Truth.8 have not reached the level of maturity to know what is religion and its purpose in knowing GOD. A true Christian, a True Hindu, A true Buddhist or a true Christiian would know thet GOD does not belong to one denomination but to who creation. Among HIS creation only man has been given the gift of reasoning and undersanding the creator. Why? Because being born a man is the opportunity to know  and understand his creator. It does not matter in which path you understand HIM but as long as you believe HE exist and that your duty as man should show compassion and love for all living beings of this planet. Our path may be different but the aim is one and that is to love and respect GOD and his creatures. A Hindu by praying in th temple with all the idols would not n any way hinder your belive of a formless GOD and you praying in a mosque with no idols. The same goes to Christians or Buddhist, they all believe in GOD their own way and understanding and none could destroy your faith.

But keep away from those who call upon the devil to help them. These people be thy from Malays, Chinese, Indians or any other race if any from these race call upon the name of Lucifer [in Christianity], Shaitan [in Islam] and Satan [in Hinduism] are the enemy of GOD. Sacrifice of human or any other life saying it is for GOD is a sin and are considered to be devil worshipers. No relgion of GOD would practice such an act because GOD did not ask of any such sacrifice. Truth.8 is an ignoran man who believe only his path whatever he calls it is the right path. THere are millions or such people in this world and it matters not. As long as a believer is pure in his heart and believes that he is here to do only good to all and serve GOD in his own way will not be rejected by GOD.

We are only here for a certain period of time and when our task is over we will live this body behind and move on to the next stage. So, until than let us learn to respect each other and live in peace so that the coming generation would inherit our ways and make this county a peaceful place for all.

barney50

Let Truth.8  say what he wants but that does not mean others are wrong. Truth.8 has not reached the level of maturity to understand true path of  religion and its purpose in knowing GOD. A true Christian, a true Hindu, A true Buddhist or a true Muslim would know thet GOD does not belong to one partucular denomination but to all. Among GOD's creation man is the highest level of of HIS creation . Why? Because of the gift of reasoning and undersanding the CREATOR. It does not matter in which path you understand HIM but as long as you believe HE exist and that your duty as man should show compassion and love for all living beings of this planet. Our path may be different but the aim is one and that is to love and respect GOD and his creatures. A Hindu by praying in th temple with all the idols would not n any way hinder other believers of a formless GOD. Nor will others hinder the way of the Hindus.

The only people the a believer should keep away is from those who call upon the devil to help them. These people be thy from Malays, Chinese, Indians or any other race if any from these race call upon the name of Lucifer [in Christianity], Shaitan [in Islam] and Satan [in Hinduism] are the enemy of GOD. Sacrifice of human or any other life saying it is for GOD is a sin and are considered to be devil worshipers. No relgion of GOD would practice such an act because GOD did not ask of any such sacrifice. Truth.8 is an ignoran man who believes only his path whatever he calls  is the right path. There are millions of such people on this planet and it matters not. As long as a believer is pure in his heart and believes that he is here to do only good to all and serve GOD in his own way will not be rejected by GOD.

We are only here for a certain period of time and when our task is over we will live this body behind and move on to the next level. So, until than let us learn to respect each other and live in peace so that the coming generation would inherit our good ways and make this county a peaceful place for all.

Originally posted by davidchemic at 22-7-2006 10:56 AM
So which one is true? God or allah or brahman or jehova?

No one answer my question? I need to know which god is true.

Originally posted by davidchemic at 23-7-2006 03:20 PM


No one answer my question? I need to know which god is true.

your god should be true then.

when you feel its not right, seek further. truth is defined by your own needs not someone else. t8 may find his brand of religion of condemning others as true, 13 may find his halfwitted comments as true. and barney may find hinduism as the perfect one. and i dont think any amount of posting will change any of you until you experience the magic yourselves.

Bateesta

A very endless and pointless discussioon . Many people thru the ages have try 2 solved this and no 1 suceed. Even wonder y ?

It is bcoz theres no answer to this question . It is whether all answers are correct or all answers are wrong , u pick 1.

Absolute truth means when it applied to all living being , it suit them. Think abt it.

Bateesta

Originally posted by davidchemic at 23-7-2006 03:20 PM


No one answer my question? I need to know which god is true.

Only god himself can varify this question n tel u the correct answer. The problem is u cannot ask god while u'r  still alive. Get it :cak:

kid

Originally posted by barney50
pease read posting. I said there were 360 idols. The same as you believe Mohammed would not have. The relevence before islam it was not kissed but only after Mohammed introduced this new relgion Islam and he set the ball rolling.

No one knows whether it was also kissed before prophet Muhammad era or not, and there just possibility that prophet Abraham also kissed it, or maybe not? so whats so important about it? Prophet Muhammad didn't told us to kiss either, nor it is an obligatory, I can't see where you are heading to.

You see my friend, has Mohammed given any reason why they have to go around the Kaaba seven times in anti clockwise direction? He did not and so kissing the black stone too he did not give reason but motted his followers to do so. He has a reason otherwise he would not practice it but did not want to give the reason because none dare ask him why so.

Dont make assumption please, please learn all about Hajj before you start inventing though.
Hajj also not only around kaabah, there are many of 'rukun Hajj', there's reason for each of them.

Many new interpretations are being made so is it not new invention?

Interpretation is different than invention, however some false interpretation could lead to new invention, that's why Muslim must refrain from inventing a story... but all knows that inventing an idol concept is a major sin.

As I have said above he did not wish to give reason because none were interested in knowing the reason.

If you mean a reason like 'idolatry kissing', nope... in your religion perhaps it would cause an issue, because your God come in form of carved stones... , but for Muslim a stone remain a stone whether kissed or not...

That is what I said and may be prophet Moses too worshiped it but not mentioned in the OT. Or it was ommitted by the rabbies later after his death. Anything could be possible don't you think so?

No 'maybe' please.... can't just justify personal assumption without base, do yo agree?
Moses was one of the prophet of God who detroyed the pagan religion of Pharaoh remember? Surely it wouldn't make sense he worship idols that he destroyed.

It is ok. No one is going to make fun of you if you do both or otherwise. I said because such practice is proof of glorifying. But I did not say you glorify the BS but GOD through it as Hindus.

Thanks...its OK, I'm not making fun of you either, you have your belief in worshipping your God in form of physical thing, and that's doesn't bother me, no worry Barney.

It does not matter how you worship GOD as long as GOD is worshiped and I'm happy about it.

Am I forcing you to accept my opinion? No, I merely said what I feel about Islam and its practice and Mohammed as a reformer of his ancesstors religion which he revolutionize it and called it Islam [which means surrender].

Thanks for your thought, we need more people like you in this forum.

By the way.. back to blackstone, I felt that you want to tell me something since you rather insist that the black stone must be worshipped, do you think the blackstone has something related to idolatry of Hinduism, or maybe you think that stone were belong to Hindu and Abraham took it for Muslim? just curious? Nobody would condemn you either if you think that way.

yusmar

IMPERFECT GOD/BRAHMAN/ALLAH/JEHOVA.......whatever you believe in....' Your god is whoever or whatever occupies your mind most of the time.'

Who can claim to know the "true" name of the That Which is beyond name and form? Is it even meaningful to try to name That Which is beyond name and form?

God, Khoda, Allah, Alaha, El, Elohim, Elat, Om, Jehova, Jah, Yahweh, Brahman, Ram, Krishna, Ahura Mazda, Tao... and many more, have all been used to refer to That Which is beyond name and form.

Nonetheless, words and names are only metaphors that we use to refer to something. The meaning is not inherent in the word, rather the meaning is something that is agreed upon. For example, each language has its own words for mother and father and for hot and cold... is it surprising then that each culture should have its own words to refer to the One?

Throughout recorded history, the differences of mankind have been used as excuses for crusades, wars and hatred. Must every generation fall prey to the same old foolishness, or is it finally time for a new understanding, an understanding based on That Which we all share in common?

May we all learn to celebrate the glory of the Divine Flame that glows in the heart of all beings.

May we learn as one great nation of mankind to celebrate the glory of our Beloved rather than quarrel over our petty differences

"O you who believe, you shall remember God frequently; glorify Him day and night." [33:41]

Thank you

[ Last edited by  yusmar at 24-7-2006 11:07 PM ]

barney50

1. responded by yusmar  :IMPERFECT GOD/BRAHMAN/ALLAH/JEHOVA.......whatever you believe in....' Your god is whoever or whatever occupies your mind most of the time.'

Copy the Code

HE belongs to no one and nor does HE owns any. I do not owe HIM my life nor does HE owns my life. I am me the immortal spirit who lives on and on from one life to another till my karma is exhausted. We have met in past  life and are communiting in this life yet we are always miles apart with no memories of our past. If the link is not there why  we who are total strangers communicate with each other. It may sounds strange but that is the truth. So, let us not worry about what HE would think but worry about what our next life would be and how we would meet again.

barney50

1. responded by yusmar  :IMPERFECT GOD/BRAHMAN/ALLAH/JEHOVA.......whatever you believe in....' Your god is whoever or whatever occupies your mind most of the time.'

Copy the Code

HE belongs to no one and nor does HE owns any. I do not owe HIM my life nor does HE owns my life. I am me the immortal spirit who lives on and on from one life to another till my karma is exhausted. We have met in past  life and are communiting in this life yet we are always miles apart with no memories of our past. If the link is not there why  we who are total strangers communicate with each other. It may sounds strange but that is the truth. So, let us not worry about what HE would think but worry about what our next life would be and how we would meet again.

Originally posted by barney50 at 25-7-2006 09:55 PM
responded by yusmar  :IMPERFECT GOD/BRAHMAN/ALLAH/JEHOVA.......whatever you believe in....' Your god is whoever or whatever occupies your mind most of the time.'


HE belongs to no one and nor  ...

no religion caan prove it is right relative to the other one. what about hinduism?

yusmar

Originally posted by bob at 26-7-2006 01:22 AM


no religion caan prove it is right relative to the other one. what about hinduism?

My opinion bob....hinduismka, christianityka....Islam ka.....buddhistka and all......it is our belief and their beliefs. We may say Islam is right but who are we to be the judge on what is right and what is wrong ? God is the Almighty.....we don't know how God thinks....we don't know God's plans for us....we don't know why God does things.....but we do know that God created us ....with different races, colours and beliefs.....with us human standing above everything else.....with our mind to think on what is right and wrong.

So....for me....i know my truth....but we should not deny others their truth for it is Their truth. I love this quote and thought i'd share it with all of you.

'We are all atheists about most of the gods that societies have ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further.'
Richard Dawkins