WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS ABOUT MUHAMMAD (PEACE BE UPON HIM) THE PROPHET OF ISLAM

Am i ignoring the facts? hmmm let's see. you asked me if i understood the meaning of brethren, so to show that i understand that, i showed you the definition of it. and where it is from. and the definition mention "fellow Christian", does Muhammad fit into that category or does any Arab fit into that category?

Your article only suggests that brethren there "undoubtedly" meant the Arab, without any solid facts. Well there is some vague ones about Abraham bla bla bla Ishamel bla bla bla, what else? All i'm asking for is that you show me the written fact that "brethren" must have been the Arabs. rather than bringing out talks about Abraham and Ishamel.

and about the prophecy of Jesus, i've already given u a verse from the old and new testament and both perfectly. and let me ask you again. is there anyone else in the Bible that has the name or the title Christ other than Jesus? secondly is there any other accounts of people that is born of a virgin birth other than Jesus?

Sorry to say this, i dont know whether u r blind or what. Let me repeat here again here the meaning of BRETHREN:-

If Ishmael and Isaac are the sons of the same father Abraham, then they are brothers. And so the children of the one are the BRETHREN of the children of the other. The children of Isaac are the Jews and the Children of Ishmael are the Arabs - so they are BRETHREN to one another. The Bible affirms, 'AND HE (ISHMAEL) SHALL DWELL IN THE PRESENCE OF ALL HIS BRETHREN.' (Genesis 16:12). 'AND HE (ISHMAEL) DIED IN THE PRESENCE OF ALL HIS BRETHREN.(Genesis 25:18). The children of Isaac are the brethren of the Ishmaelites. In like manner Muhummed is from among the brethren of the Israelites because he was a descendant of Ishmael the son of Abraham. This exactly as the prophecy has it- 'FROM AMONG THEIR BRETHREN'.(Deut.18:18). There the prophecy distinctly mentions that the coming prophet who would be like Moses, must arise NOT from the 'children of Israel' or from 'among themselves', but from among their brethren. MUHUMMED THEREFORE WAS FROM AMONG THEIR BRETHREN

I have stated clearly the meaning of BRETHREN. If u still cant understand and say what i say as blah blah blah, then i think you are afraid of the truth. You only refute my claim by saying the whole verse only about true and false prophets but u cant say to which prophet it refers to at the same time u cant accept what i say.

Im not going to argue about prophecy about coming of Jesus here coz its out of topic.

yeap i'm blind, i still can't see any brethren-Arabs there. sorry...

i'm not afraid of the truth, it's just that i don't see anything related to arabs there. nothing but just unproven claims that the word brethren must have the Arabs. Ishmael was rejected by Abraham. end of story, the israelites have nothing to do with them.furthermore i could have claimed that the word brethren means the 12 tribes of Israel...

by the way a search at BibleGateway for the word 'brethren' reveals that the word 'brethren' was mentioned 542 times. does that mean all the verses with the word brethren meant the Arab? :hmm:

Originally posted by weedkiller at 19-8-2006 06:29 PM
by the way a search at BibleGateway for the word 'brethren' reveals that the word 'brethren' was mentioned 542 times. does that mean all the verses with the word brethren meant the Arab? :hmm:

Different situation, different meaning.

let's take a random example then.

Then Samuel took the horn of oil, and anointed him in the midst of his brethren: and the Spirit of the LORD came upon David from that day forward. So Samuel rose up, and went to Ramah. 1 Samuel 16:13

Samuel the judge, is a Jew. The 'brethren' would undoubtedly be the Arabs. Samuel then anoints David. Wow, Samuel anointed David in front of the Arabs.

Originally posted by weedkiller at 19-8-2006 07:17 PM
let's take a random example then.

Then Samuel took the horn of oil, and anointed him in the midst of his brethren: and the Spirit of the LORD came upon David from that day forward. So Samuel ros ...

Since u want to twist the topic, now i give u a chance to tell me so which person that particular verse refers to? I not only give u that particular verse, i have already given u many proofs, but u want to fight with me just with the word BRETHREN, now come on proof me wrong. Have u read my other fact that i have already mentioned ? If not, just read it and refute my claim one by one ok.

no one in particular. just Samuel's 'brethren'.

like i say, your proof is vague. just because Arabs descended from Abraham it doesn't mean that they definitely fit into the description of "brethren of Iraelite". what i want to see is written facts that the word 'brethren' there meant the Arabs. thats all. i'm not interested in listening to the story of Ishamel and some other granddaddy stories. Abraham rejected Ishmael. End of story there.

Originally posted by davidchemic at 15-8-2006 06:25 PM

Neh, it's Monkey God Sun Wu Kong. Raised from his ape brethren.

lol...

good one

laught for about 10 mins

Originally posted by weedkiller at 19-8-2006 08:41 PM
no one in particular. just Samuel's 'brethren'.

like i say, your proof is vague. just because Arabs descended from Abraham it doesn't mean that they definitely fit into the description of &qu ...

Prophecy wont give u something exactly. It only give hints. As i told u, u cant refute my other proof that i showed to you. U also cant say to which prophet that verse refers to. You say you are not a christian, but a so called christian here say that verse refers to JESUS. Whats your comment ? U want me to highlight again all proof again ?

"That Prophet"
If we look up any Bible which has a concordance or cross-references, then we will find in the marginal note where the words "the Prophet", or "that Prophet" occur in John 1:25, that these words refer to the prophecy of Deuteronomy 18:15 and 18. And that 'that prophet' - 'the prophet like Moses' - "LIKE UNTO THEE", we have proved through overwhelming evidence that he was MUHUMMED and not Jesus!

We Muslims are not denying that Jesus was the "Messiah", which word is translated as "Christ".1 We are not contesting the "thousand and one prophecies" which the Christians claim abound in the Old Testament foretelling the coming of the Messiah. What we say is that Deuteronomy 18:18 does NOT refer to Jesus Christ but it is an explicit prophecy about the Holy Prophet MUHUMMED!"

first of all i did not say it's a prophecy. So i do not have to tell you which prophet it specifically mentioned there. even if you insist on asking me i would say i don't know, as i'm not God himself.  i merely said that it's just a passage that tells us about true and false prophet IF you read the whole passage. you're doing all the claims yourself throwing every article from muslim websites regarding it. i in the other hand did not even bother to dig out any article. and i've already shown you
1) the word Israelite in the Bible
2) the meaning of the word brethren.
3) that if you read the whole passage it tells u that it's regarding true and false prophet.

and you on the other hand give out vague facts like:
1) Ishmael descended from Abraham. So they must have been the 'mentioned' there.

So now just cut the overwhelming copy and pasting, fast forward and give me the answers to the question i'm asking.
1) Is there any written proof that the word 'brethren' there definitely meant the Arabs. (please don't bring out your vague facts that Ishmael bla bla bla Abraham stories. those are just assumptions.)
2) if it does mean the Arab, again where is it written that the prophet must have been Muhammad?

And regarding the bible concordance. not only does it says the Prophet. It also says True and False prophet in other versions. wanna see the screenshot?

http://www.biblegateway.com/pass ... 18;&version=31; - NIV version concordance. "The Prophet"

http://www.biblegateway.com/pass ... 18;&version=51; - New Living Translation version concordance. "True and False Prophet"

http://www.biblegateway.com/pass ... 18;&version=50; - New King James version concordance. "A New Prophet Like Moses"

http://www.biblegateway.com/pass ... 18;&version=74; - New Life Version concordance. "A Man Who Speaks For God"

http://www.biblegateway.com/pass ... 18;&version=76; - New International Readers Version - The Prophet of the Lord

So many versions there, but i don't see keywords like "Prophecy" and most importantly "Muhammad".

sparrow

Originally posted by SilentKiller at 19-8-2006 05:57 PM
.(Deut.18:18). There the prophecy distinctly mentions that the coming prophet who would be like Moses, must arise NOT from the 'children of Israel' or from 'among themselves', but from among their brethren. MUHUMMED THEREFORE WAS FROM AMONG THEIR BRETHREN
where did you get the portion in green above from?

I have stated clearly the meaning of BRETHREN. If u still cant understand and say what i say as blah blah blah,

Firstly, i do understand your meaning of the word brethren. i understand that Isaac and Ishmael are from the same father Abraham and so the Israelites and the Ishamelites are brothers in that sense. But like weedkiller, i do not agree that this is what Deuteronomy means.

Secondly, i'd like to refute the portion of your post in green above. Read the verse again. The verse did NOT say that the coming prophet must not arise from the children of Israel themselves, It ONLY says that he will be raised from among their brethren. Clearly, the Israelites ARE brethren among themselves too.

Furthermore, you are not reading the whole thing. Read a bigger portion of the chapter, rather than singling out one verse alone. Read from verse 15 onwards:
Deut 18:15-18
15The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;
16According to all that thou desiredst of the LORD thy God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, Let me not hear again the voice of the LORD my God, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not.
17And the LORD said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken.
18I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.

Moses was speaking to the Israelites.. and he said that the God will raise the Prophet from the midst of the Israelites.. ie, from their own Israelite brethren.

Well, if you are claiming that the BIBLE actually says this prophecy refers to  Muhammad, (per your thread title).. then i'd like to point it out to you that this is NOT the fact. In fact, the Bible states the opposite.The Bible Because there are some verses in the later portion  of the Bible that clearly states who the prophet is, and it does not refer to Muhammad:

Acts 3:19-24
19Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord, 20and that he may send the Christ, who has been appointed for you - even Jesus. 21He must remain in heaven until the time comes for God to restore everything, as he promised long ago through his holy prophets. 22For Moses said, 'The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your own people; you must listen to everything he tells you. 23Anyone who does not listen to him will be completely cut off from among his people.
24"Indeed, all the prophets from Samuel on, as many as have spoken, have foretold these days.

If you read Acts 3 - you will notice that in the BIBLE, the coming prophet mentioned in Deuteronomy is NOT Muhammad, but Christ.

p/s: the reason for my post here is not so much as to fight on who the prophecy refers to, but to refute your claim that the BIBLE says this about Muhammad. The Bible did not say what you claimed about Muhammad, because the Bible pointed it clearly to the Lord Jesus Christ.
(You can claim the Qu'ran says it... you may claim the Torah says it.. but you may NOT claim, the Bible says it.)

[ Last edited by  sparrow at 20-8-2006 11:13 PM ]

first of all i did not say it's a prophecy. So i do not have to tell you which prophet it specifically mentioned there. even if you insist on asking me i would say i don't know, as i'm not God himself.  i merely said that it's just a passage that tells us about true and false prophet IF you read the whole passage. you're doing all the claims yourself throwing every article from muslim websites regarding it. i in the other hand did not even bother to dig out any article. and i've already shown you
1) the word Israelite in the Bible
2) the meaning of the word brethren.
3) that if you read the whole passage it tells u that it's regarding true and false prophet.

and you on the other hand give out vague facts like:
1) Ishmael descended from Abraham. So they must have been the 'mentioned' there.

So now just cut the overwhelming copy and pasting, fast forward and give me the answers to the question i'm asking.
1) Is there any written proof that the word 'brethren' there definitely meant the Arabs. (please don't bring out your vague facts that Ishmael bla bla bla Abraham stories. those are just assumptions.)
2) if it does mean the Arab, again where is it written that the prophet must have been Muhammad?

And regarding the bible concordance. not only does it says the Prophet. It also says True and False prophet in other versions. wanna see the screenshot?

Deut 18:18 clearly shows a prophecy, if for u it isnt a prophecy, then i cant say anything.

and you on the other hand give out vague facts like:
1) Ishmael descended from Abraham. So they must have been the 'mentioned' there.

U are like telling me something exactly must be mentioned here, but as i have asked you before did JESUS's name mentioned explicitlly on his coming in Old Testament ? It doesnt matter if i cut n paste from other websites, u can do it too if u want. As long as u can proof ur claim.

So i do not have to tell you which prophet it specifically mentioned there

Just say you do not know to which prophet it refers to. End of story. Dont say you do not have to tell me. That verse explicitly refers to a prophet, yet u say its not.

Originally posted by sparrow at 20-8-2006 08:32 PM


Firstly, i do understand your meaning of the word brethren. i understand that Isaac and Ishmael are from the same father Abraham and so the Israelites and the Ishamelites are brothers in that s ...

prophet in Deuteronomy is NOT Muhammad, but Christ.

Are u saying JESUS is a prophet ?

Deut 18:18 clearly shows a prophecy, if for u it isnt a prophecy, then i cant say anything.

great then, prove that's a prophecy. i've already shown u the verse and the concordance there. prove it.

U are like telling me something exactly must be mentioned here, but as i have asked you before did JESUS's name mentioned explicitlly on his coming in Old Testament ? It doesnt matter if i cut n paste from other websites, u can do it too if u want. As long as u can proof ur claim.

so do you want to talk about Jesus' prophecy or not? because previously you said that it's offtopic. and i asked you 2 simple question regarding the prophecy of jesus. is there anyone else with the name or contains the name "Christ" in the bible? Secondly is there any other person born of the virgin birth other than Jesus in the bible? Just answer yes or no. simple as that

Just say you do not know to which prophet it refers to. End of story. Dont say you do not have to tell me. That verse explicitly refers to a prophet, yet u say its not.

why do i say i do not have to tell you? because it's not me who claims that the verse is a prophecy. and yes matter of fact i don't know because i'm not God. but are you God since you know that it refers to Muhammad? or you're just playing a game of tikam? or should i say "tikam with vague facts?"

Are u saying JESUS is a prophet ?

let me guess sparrow's answer. he would say yes. he is a prophet and son of god because he brought in the word of God to us. so yes he fulfilled the requirement and the duty of Prophet and God at the same time.

p.s. i might be wrong though. let's wait for sparrow's answer

sparrow

Originally posted by SilentKiller at 20-8-2006 08:43 PM

Are u saying JESUS is a prophet ?

Yes. While Jesus was on earth as a man, He carried to us the message from the Father. He did prophecy what would be happenig after He died on the cross and rose back up to heaven. He did prophecy His own coming again (ie, Jesus will be coming again at the end of the world.. ) He also prophecied the last days, and the events related to His own second coming.

But being a Prophet does not cancel His being the Son of God. Being the Son of God, and being a Prophet, is not mutually exlusive.
Must a Prophet be a human only? Can't the Son of God Himself be Prophet as well? And remember that Jesus is Son of God, as well as Son of Man....
Jesus is Son of God, and Son of Man.. and Prophet, Priest and King...


p/s: Silentkiller and Weedkiller.. maybe i should come up with a similar sounding name too..

[ Last edited by  sparrow at 20-8-2006 09:01 PM ]

sparrow

Originally posted by davidchemic at 15-8-2006 06:25 PM

Neh, it's Monkey God Sun Wu Kong. Raised from his ape brethren.

Originally posted by me at 19-8-2006 11:27 PM
lol...

good one

laught for about 10 mins

LOL.. yeah.. got myself choking with laughter too.. i must say, that guy has a funny sense of humor..