maternity and employment

Originally posted by rurouni_khairul at 20-3-2007 03:11 PM
Takde saksi nie agak susah sket laa..maybe bole depend solely on letter of offer tuh ajerlah....

Chance kemenangan nie susah nak determine..saya bukan judge..

Tapi ape-apehal pun gi Mahk ...

offer letter tu pun bknnya dapat.dia dah tarik balik kan...

kalo en khairul ni judge lain la plak ceritanya...

rurouni_khairul

Hmmm..saksi takde, letter pun takde...

Agak rumit jugak nie..nasib baik saya bukan Presiden Mahkamah Perusahaan..

Tapi cadangan pada tigger kalau nak proceed jugak....cuba tanya pihak berkenaan iaitu Mahkamah Perusahaan atau consult sape2 yang penah ade experience buat menda nie..

quedac1

Camne plak kes kalau kontrak staff.
Mulanya boss dah setuju nak extend kontrak, tp tetiba HR plak kata hold for one week lepas tahu yg kita nih pregnan dan akan bersalin biler2 masa.
HR kata one week tuh cooling of period. Ader ker ke gini?
Then satu lagi kalau HR terminate kontrak tuh just because pregnant camner eh? Sah ker dari segi undang2?

tigger

nie pun interesting questions jugak sbb ramai jugak kontrak staffs kat opis skrg kena mcm nie... bila kata nak sambung, HR selalu la buat derk jer.. pastu kalau pregnant, lagi la dia tak nak sambung... so, sap yg arif tentang nie boleh la tolong jawab...

sebenarnya, byk injustice berlaku pada pregnant ladies out there sbb employer tak nak bear the cost for maternity.. tapi tu la aku nak tau if this masuk katefori discrimination in work place ke tak?

Yg pasal nak gi mahkamah tu, aku memang ada niat jugak nak buat aritu... tgk la hari ni mcm mana sbb director kat kompeni tu kata nak call aku... so, nanti aku update korang yek apa conclusion aku punya kes nie...

fairy_hobbit

Originally posted by quedac1 at 21-3-2007 02:34 AM
Camne plak kes kalau kontrak staff.
Mulanya boss dah setuju nak extend kontrak, tp tetiba HR plak kata hold for one week lepas tahu yg kita nih pregnan dan akan bersalin biler2 masa.
HR kata on ...
Then satu lagi kalau HR terminate kontrak tuh just because pregnant camner eh? Sah ker dari segi undang2

Cooling period untuk kontrak staff sebelum sambung the next contract normally supaya org yg dioffer contract tu ada masa untuk fikirkan the T&Cs of the agreement dan untuk fairly fikir to accept the offer or not... also for the purpose of membezakan hari antara satu kontrak dgn kontrak yg seterusnya... im not sure kat malaysia apa standard practice but some countries/companies specify standard cooling off period (seminggu ke sebulan ker).  but check la whether this is normal in ur company punya HR policies..? kebetulan plak nak bersalin time cooling off tu yer... :hmm:

terminating the contract just bcz pregnant tu u mean terminate the existing contract yg sedang berjalan ker? n how did  u know that reason untuk terminate tu sebab pregnant? majikan bgtau mcm tu ataupun tidak bgtau reason?  

this one gotta check ur employment contract.. what are the permissible grounds for termination? adakah majikan boleh main suka suki terminate by giving relevant notice without giving any reason (termination of convenience)? if no, majikan dah buat tindakan yg salah la.. they've breached the contract.... but if yes, then most probably majikan maybe akan guna ground ni untuk terminate without giving any reason but by giving the prerequisite notice.. coz i really doubt ada employment contract yg kata kalau pregnant, contract terminate... tp kalau ada dlm T&Cs tu yg cakap kalau pregnant bole terminate, then mmg bole la majikan buat mcm tu    dulu2 tak silapnya stewardess mas ada clause mcm ni... now dah takder...  (


T&Cs = terms n conditions

Dilto

Originally posted by elbecks at 17-3-2007 11:17 PM
tak leh buat apa sbb offer tu ditarik balik sblm ada acceptence.

memang tak baik kalau tarik balik hanya kerana u mengandung, mungkin kerje tu memang immediate kene isi dan berat kot bagi pomp ...

Persoalan yg perlukan jawapan:
1)back to the basic contract...surat tawaran tu adakah really an offer(in the eyes of law)??Or just an invitation....
2)kalau it is an offer...contract still belum complete as no acceptance...

meaning that u never be the employee of that company

[ Last edited by  Dilto at 22-3-2007 11:12 AM ]

rurouni_khairul

Hohoho...balik semula pada basic question, difference between Offer and an Invitation to treat...ade satu kes yang discuss pasal issue nie....

Kesnya ialah Carlill v Carbolic Smoke Ball Co [1893] 1 QB 256 ade mase cuba la carik...

Additional note: For offer and acceptance generally and for the difference between an offer and an invitation to treat, see 9 Halsbury's Laws (4th edn) paras 226--230, and for cases on the subject, see 12 Digest (Reissue) 63--66, 328--338.

Nanti ade mase aku cube carik.

[ Last edited by  rurouni_khairul at 22-3-2007 12:41 PM ]

tigger

wah.. korang nie ckp bahasa lawyer buat aku konpius lagi....:stp:

anyway, nak update aku pun kes... today, the director of the company call aku kata dia ngan HR dah bincang and will give me a kaveat (apa tu??) of:

1) They will offer me the job after maternity leave with the condition of the position is still open and vacant.
2) If the position is not vacant after my maternity leave, they will bot offer me the job

So, persoalannya, adakah aku perlu setuju dgn condition yg dia bagi tu? Is it fair to me or not?

Yang arif, sila jawab ye....

tigger

sorry, yg no 2 tu suppose to say like this 'If the position is not vacant after my maternity leave, they will not offer me the job'   sorry, salah tekan huruf...

rurouni_khairul

Sori la tigger...aku terbawak-bawak lak zaman study aku dulu...

Kaveat tuh maksudnya macam nak cakap "Aku chopkan untuk ko dulu" laa lebih kurang (tak nak jawab ikut legal jargon takut ko konfius lagi.. )

Hmmm..Tigger, leh tanye awak skrg dah ngandung brp bulan sebelum awak akan deliver baby? Sebab kalau lama lagi takut jawatan awak tuh dah ade org lain apply...yelah mane kita tau kan?

tigger

kira belajar law dulu la ek?? patut la terer jawab soklan2 nie...

anyway, kaveat nie kira chop la ek... mcm bagi keutamaan gitu?

kalau camtu perlu setuju ngan kaveat tu ke tak?

skrg nie tgh pregnant 5 months and deliver early august... so kalau ikutkan maternity leave bulan 10 baru masuk keje balik la...

rasanya lama sgt ke diorg nak tunggu tu? is it worth to wait or just let it go?

lagi satu nak tanya, kalau kata kita setuju dgn conditon dia, time bila kita nak hantar surat letak jawatan? before maternity leave or lepas maternity leave?

sori.. byk tanya nie sbb nak tau hak2 pekerja nie...

rurouni_khairul

Yup, kaveat kire u akan diberi keutamaan laa..

Dah 5 bulan ngandung eh? Kalau camtuh ade lagi 4 bulan...lama jugak kan? Tapi kalau die dah kate nak kaveat untuk u maknanya die dah janji tak nak amik pekerja baru utk jawatan u tuh sementara tunggu u selamat bersalin, kan? Ape lak maksud die dalam para (2) tuh?

Rasenya soalan selebihnya kena tanye org yang expert employment law laa..Dilto, assitance needed!!

tigger

kalau nak kira 4+2 months maternity leave la...

yg maksud para 2 tu la yg aku tak paham tu... maybe in the mean time dia still carik org utk isi kekosongan jawatan tu kot... so, maknanya i'm still at the losing side jugak la sbb they can always fill the position at any time kan?

so, buat apa bagi kaveat kalau mcm tu? heeee.... pening kepalo den....

anyway, HR diorg still tak de bagi surat or kaveat lagik kat aku.. kira kena tnggu jer la..
nanti aku call lagi director tu nak tanya dia napa org HR tu tak calling lagik...

I will update later....

rurouni_khairul

Aku rase taklah...aku rase bile die setuju bagi kaveat meaning jawatan tuh memang konfem ko punye lepas ko abis bersalin...die takkan amik orang lain dan setia tunggu ko. Kalau tak, tak guna lah ia dipanggil kaveat kan?

Klause kedua tuh based on interpretation aku ialah, in case kalau jawatan ko dimansuhkan dalam syarikat tuh, maknanya offer dan kaveat tuh akan terbatal sama sekali. Kan pernah berlaku kalau sesebuah company restructuring atau merged, sesetengah jawatan yang dah tak relevan akan dimansuhkan.  Tapi nie tafsiran aku ajer, aku mungkin silap.

Tapi camner pun, cuba ko konfem balik dgn HR die pasal klause kedua die tuh okay!

tigger

ok la kalo mcm tu...

Apa pun aku akan confirmkan besok bila aku call director tu... apa kaveat yg diorg tulis...

Nanti akan diupdate ye....

rurouni_khairul

Ade perkembangan terbaru Tigger? Kalau ade stori la yer...

tigger

so far belum ada perkembangan lagi...

HR dia still belum call sbb kaveat tu belum di finalise lagi, kata director tu la...

tapi by monday kalau HR tak call, aku akan call balik HR dia and nak tanya napa lembab sgt...

Dun worry, aku akan sentiasa update kalau ada perkembangan terbaru...

Aku rasa kat luar sana ramai jugak org yg pregnant yg kena mcm aku nie tapi tak ambik pot sbb malas nak fight balik... kalau kat US nie aku rasa sure mesti diorg dah hire lowyer nih..

tigger

Ok... aku nak update my kes...

The HR dah call aku and ckp benda yg sama, aku punya offer is still KIV jugak...

Nothing about the caveat or what so ever... aku dok tanya dia knp discriminate org pregnant? dia kata bukan discriminate but company practice tak pernah buat camtu... so, dia akan offer aku lepas confinement itupun kalau the position is still open...

At the end, result dia sama gak la... KIV

Kengkadang aku rasa mcm kena main la pulak sbb last 2 days the director tu kata nak bagi caveat tapi lepas tu HR kata tak de la pulak...

So, any comment?

rurouni_khairul

Janji kaveat dibuat melalui phone atau meeting face to face, tigger?

Lagipun, teruk sgt ke keja u nie sampai orang pregnant takleh kerja?

DARSITA

Originally posted by tigger at 3/16/07 00:11
Nak tanya pendapat korang la especially yg tau pasal akta buruh ke...

Aku dah dpt offer keje dari satu tempat ni and diorg dah bagi kat aku terms and consition of employment verbally...

Pas ...

Kalau nak saman nak saman under apa .. lagi pun you tak up front about your pregnancy during the interview process. Beside calculating your losses might be difficult, though.

In some places (dkt US lah kan) that fact pattern would give rise to a breach of contract claim. Contract was offered and accepted. Sure it was oral and sure there will be some fight over it but you got a shot at it.

Cari lah kerja baru lepas bersalin nanti - good luck