Teori Pemanasan Corona Matahari berdasarkan tafsiran Alquran dan Sains

putragold

Salam buat semua,

Sebagai pembuka kata, kewujudan thread ni adalah rentetan perbincangan berkenaan isu  vakum yg menjadi hangat didalam thread Konspirasi : USA Tipu Dunia Tentang Pendaratan Di bulan. Maka telah dicadangkan agar satu thread khusus dibuka agar fokus perbincangan  lebih kepada darihal corona matahari dan vakum.

Sebelum saya menyerah perbincangan kepada ahli panel, izinkan saya memberi sedikit sebanyak info berkenaan matahari dan vakum.

Matahari seperti mana yg digambarkan seperti dibawah terdiri drpd beberapa zon atau  lapisan, fokus kita adalah pada lapisan corona.

The sun and its atmosphere consist of several zones or layers. From the inside out,  the solar interior consists of the core, the radiative zone, and the convection zone.  The solar atmosphere is made up of the photosphere, the chromosphere, a transition  region, and the corona. Beyond the corona is the solar wind, which is actually an outward flow of coronal gas. Because astronomers cannot see inside the sun, they have  learned about the solar interior indirectly. Part of their knowledge is based on the  observed properties of the sun as a whole. Some of it is based on calculations that  produce phenomena in the observable zones.

Sun Statistics
Mass (kg)                        1.989e+30
Mass (Earth = 1)                332,830
Equatorial radius (km)                695,000
Equatorial radius (Earth = 1)        108.97
Mean density (gm/cm^3)        1.410
Rotational period (days)                25-36*
Escape velocity (km/sec)        618.02
Luminosity (ergs/sec)                3.827e33
Magnitude (Vo)                        -26.8
Mean surface temperature        6,000癈
Age (billion years)                4.5

Principal chemistry
Hydrogen                         92.1%
Helium                                 7.8%
Oxygen                                0.061%
Carbon                                 0.030%
Nitrogen                         0.0084%
Neon                                 0.0076%
Iron                                 0.0037%
Silicon                                 0.0031%
Magnesium                         0.0024%
Sulfur                                 0.0015%
All others                         0.0015%
        

http://www.solarviews.com

sambung.....

putragold

Seterusnya kita lihat pula definisi vakum

A vacuum is a volume of space that is essentially empty of matter, such that its  gaseous pressure is much less than atmospheric pressure.[1] The word comes from the  Latin term for "empty," but in reality, no volume of space can ever be perfectly  empty. A perfect vacuum with a gaseous pressure of absolute zero is a philosophical  concept that is never observed in practice. Physicists often discuss ideal test  results that would occur in a perfect vacuum, which they simply call "vacuum" or "free  space" in this context, and use the term partial vacuum to refer to real vacuum. The  Latin term in vacuo is also used to describe an object as being in what would  otherwise be a vacuum.

Outer space has very low density and pressure, and is the closest physical  approximation of a perfect vacuum. It has effectively no friction, allowing stars,  planets and moons to move freely along ideal gravitational trajectories. But no vacuum  is truly perfect, not even in interstellar space where there are still a few hydrogen  atoms per cubic centimeter.

All of the observable universe is filled with large numbers of photons, the so-called  cosmic background radiation, and quite likely a correspondingly large number of  neutrinos. The current temperature of this radiation is about 3 K, or -270 degrees  Celsius or -454 degrees Fahrenheit.

sumbangan saintis muslim

Medieval Islamic world, the Muslim physicist and philosopher, Al-Farabi (Alpharabius,  872-950), conducted a small experiment concerning the existence of vacuum, in which he  investigated handheld plungers in water.[10] He concluded that air's volume can expand  to fill available space, and he suggested that the concept of perfect vacuum was  incoherent.[11] However, the Muslim physicist Ibn al-Haytham (Alhazen, 965-1039) and  the Mu'tazili theologians disagreed with Aristotle and Al-Farabi, and they supported  the existence of a void. Using geometry, Ibn al-Haytham mathematically demonstrated  that place (al-makan) is the imagined three-dimensional void between the inner  surfaces of a containing body.[12] Abū Rayhān al-Bīrūnī also states that "there is no  observable evidence that rules out the possibility of vacuum".[13] The first suction  pump was invented in 1206 by the Muslim engineer and inventor, Al-Jazari. The suction  pump later appeared in Europe from the 15th century.[14][15][16] Taqi al-Din's six- cylinder 'Monobloc' pump, invented in 1551, could also create a partial vacuum, which  was formed "as the lead weight moves upwards, it pulls the piston with it, creating  vacuum which sucks the water through a non return clack valve into the piston  cylinder."[17]

modern definition of vacuum

In 1930, Paul Dirac proposed a model of vacuum as an infinite sea of particles  possessing negative energy, called the Dirac sea. This theory helped refine the  predictions of his earlier formulated Dirac equation, and successfully predicted the  existence of the positron, discovered two years later in 1932. Despite this early  success, the idea was soon abandoned in favour of the more elegant quantum field  theory.

The development of quantum mechanics has complicated the modern interpretation of  vacuum by requiring indeterminacy. Niels Bohr and Werner Heisenberg's uncertainty  principle and Copenhagen interpretation, formulated in 1927, predict a fundamental  uncertainty in the instantaneous measurability of the position and momentum of any  particle, and which, not unlike the gravitational field, questions the emptiness of  space between particles. In the late 20th century, this principle was understood to  also predict a fundamental uncertainty in the number of particles in a region of  space, leading to predictions of virtual particles arising spontaneously out of the  void. In other words, there is a lower bound on the vacuum, dictated by the lowest  possible energy state of the quantized fields in any region of space.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacuum

Disini kita dapat melihat maksud/makna/definisi/intepretasi/apadia vacuum itu sendiri  masih belum lagi muktamad bahkan ia masih diresearch sampai ke hari ini. Justeri itu,  harus dan amat digalakkan kita tidak menutup minda kita terhadap teori-teori baru  bahkan membuka ruang seluasnya perbincangan tanpa sebarang syak wasangka.

putragold

Setakat pencarian saya, kebanyakan teori macam ni

"The question of why the corona has such a high temperature is harder to explain, and probably the last word on the physical mechanism has not yet been given. Most astronomers assume that the gas is heated by the magnetic field that pervades the corona. The solar magnetic field has long been known to cause the sunspot cycle, and the physical shape and activity in the corona also varies with the sunspot cycle. Magnetic fields are known to be able to transfer large amounts of energy to the solar atmosphere, sometimes explosively as in flares. Huge magnetic loops can be seen to rise far into the corona, and it is quite plausible that the solar magnetic field is the ultimate source of physical heating of the corona."

Teori mereka ni macam ignore yg ruang corona tu ialah vakum empty space tapi assume ia mengandungi gas. Adakah benar assumption mereka itu?

Namun ada juga yg berpendapat macam ni

The solar corona is the source of the light and heat we need but how the energy is generated is a mystery. The surface of the sun is 8000 degrees Fahrenheit. 100,000 miles above the surface of the sun the corona is two million degrees. Supposedly the heat of the corona is a product of the sun but the thermodynamics are wrong. Astrophysicists have known this conundrum for decades and many theories have been proposed on how the corona derives power from the sun. Definitely radiative processes cannot account for the cooler surface of the sun heating up the much higher temperature plasma and gases in near vacuum. Conduction is not possible. Convection might bypass the surface of the sun through powerful magnetic storms ejecting prominences and flares from sunspots and heating the corona. But the corona remains hot when there are no magnetic storms. Also the storms cover just a small part of the circumference of the sun, yet the whole corona remains hot. Magnetic convection has to be ruled out.

putragold

Merujuk pada Alquran, matahari disebut sebagai 憀ampu

putragold

Soalan seterusnya dari saya,
Bagaimanakah (HOW) kita boleh mendapatkan bacaan suhu di matahari ?
Berapakah suhu bagi setiap zon atau lapisan matahari?
Sejauhmanakah kebenaran (TRUTH) bacaan suhu dimatahari yang dikira itu jika law fizik tidak boleh diapply pada matahari?

Jika suhu yg dikira sampai peringkat (TRUTH) then barulah sepatutnya kita boleh bincang persoalan dibawah namun jika no choice kita terima dulu buat masa ini but subject to change in future;

Bagaimanakah ruang vakum di corona matahari mencapai suhu jutaan K manakala permukaannya sekitar 6000 K?

Maka dengan ini, saya sebagai tuan rumah secara rasminya membuka gelanggang kepada ahli panel yang terdiri dari semua yang berminat. Silakan.

aku_EnSeM

aku xwaper arif bab2 matahari, tp suhu permukaan matahari diukur dengan melihat brightness and luminosity matahari...

mbhcsf

soalan yg relevan ialah berdasarkan persoalan ini kan

macam mana suhu korona boleh tinggi dari matahari?

kalau sayalah, sebelum saya kata sapa - sapa salah sebab ini bukan tujuan threda ni kan so

saya teringin nak tahu ttg :

a) apakah teori teori yg ada untuk menerangkan  fenomena : SUHU TINGGI di korona let say

b) apa kekauatan teori yg ada tu
c) apa kelemahan the  forwarded theory

d) sapa yg kat sini bebetul ambik PLASMA PHYSICS  boleh citer tak dalam ayata yg saya sebagai non physics major boleh faham?


sebab : saya rasa kalau ada persoalan mesti ada dah forwarded theory  
dan logik tak teori tu

so cara ni kot perbincangan boleh berkembang dari dok salah sapa ? tak salah sapa..knowledge is neutral i guess ...tak da sapa salah cuma ada reviewed / improved understanding

rasanya setakat tu kot my comments

aku_EnSeM

ko nk tnye knpe corona suhu die tgi sedangkan die vakum ke?

based on ur explanation in the magnetic field that transfers energy, there is nothing wrong with it. Magnetic field exists in vacuum all the time.

mbhcsf

lagi satu ttg the word Gas tu dalam statement tu ....

tapi i agree with this statement yg cakap
Magnetic fields are known to be able to transfer large amounts of energy to the solar atmosphere, sometimes explosively as in flares. Huge magnetic loops can be seen to rise far into the corona, and it is quite plausible that the solar magnetic field is the ultimate source of physical heating of the corona.

mbhcsf

how  would u connect  ayat tu dgn pemanasan korona and vakum?

boleh tak terangakan guan ayat sendiri jgn cut and paste sebab yg menariik ialah your thought formulation. yg cut and paste tu cut and paste

saden

Originally posted by mbhcsf at 6-3-2009 19:33
soalan yg relevan ialah berdasarkan persoalan ini kan

macam mana suhu korona boleh tinggi dari matahari?

kalau sayalah, sebelum saya kata sapa - sapa salah sebab ini bukan tujuan threda ni kan so

saya teringin nak tahu ttg :

a) apakah teori teori yg ada untuk menerangkan  fenomena : SUHU TINGGI di korona let say

b) apa kekauatan teori yg ada tu
c) apa kelemahan the  forwarded theory

d) sapa yg kat sini bebetul ambik PLASMA PHYSICS  boleh citer tak dalam ayata yg saya sebagai non physics major boleh faham?


sebab : saya rasa kalau ada persoalan mesti ada dah forwarded theory  
dan logik tak teori tu

so cara ni kot perbincangan boleh berkembang dari dok salah sapa ? taksalah sapa..knowledge is neutral i guess ...tak da sapa salah cuma adareviewed / improved understanding

rasanya setakat tu kot my comments

Ishh.. naluri kelectureranku membuak2 melihat persoalan ini. Mari kita clarify the issues first.

First, what is corona? Is it the area above sun's surface? Or is it the charged particles occupying that space? Or is it both together-gether?

Second, temperature tu, temperature of the charged particles occupying said space atau pun temperature of the space itself (which may be empty)?

If we can agree that the issue is about the temperature of the charged particles, then we can proceed...

Kendian, about SUHU. Suhu increases bila particle terima ENERGY. Energy yg diterima ni disimpan sebagai Internal Energy. Internal energy ni yg kita detect sebagai suhu (taking into account heat capacity juga).

BAGAIMANA energy tu diterima oleh particle tersebut, it doesn't matter. Boleh jadi secara radiation, heat conduction, electromagnetic excitation, mechanical acceleration, compression...whatever2 lah. Janji energy masyukkk. Bila energy dah masuk, suhu naik.

Macamana cara energy diTRANSFERkan ke sesuatu body? Kalau energy tu berpindah due to temperature gradient, kita panggil dia HABA. Tapi, bukan itu saja cara untk pindahkan energy, kita boleh pakai letrik, mechanical compression, electromagnetic excitation, etc. Yang penting energy tu ditransferredkan.

Yang jadi persoalan pasal particle kat corona bersuhu juta2 tu, ialah BAGAIMANA energy tu sampai kat charged particles tu dan PUNCA energy tu. Oleh kerana suhu surface rendah dari suhu corona, kita kena RULE OUT heat transfer from surface to corona. Ketiga2 mode (conduction, convection & radiation) kena rule out pasal temperature gradient dia terbalik untuk drive heat transfer.

Tapi disebut tadi, bukan heat transfer saja yg kita boleh pakai untuk transfer energy. Banyak cara lain lagi.

So, yang jadi kemusykilan 'para saintis barat' (hahahaha mbhcsf mesti fobia dgn term ni) ialah mode2 lain ENERGY transfer tak cukup to account for the phenomenon.

Itu pasal, like I said haritu, talking about HEAT transfer will confuse the issue. Kita kena tengok dia sebagai ENERGY transfer.

In terms of the AMOUNT of energy to heat sampai juta2 suhu, itu takjadi masalah, pasal AMOUNT tu cuma a fraction saja of the sun's totalenergy output.

So, kemusykilannya ialah not about heat transfer pasal heat transfer is out of the question.... Tapi kemusykilannya ialah what OTHER modes of ENERGY TRANSFER yg terlibat untuk corona ni.

Now, if we say the energy supply is not from the sun, but instead from the vacuum space itself, I think we can also rule that out pasal asteroid yg duduk dlm vacuum tu tak pulak panas. Dan free hydrogen atoms yg duduk kat interstellar vacuum tu tak pulak glowing with heat.

p.s. Lepas ni memang takmo dah pakai Toyota Corona...

mbhcsf

so sorry dear at 1 am now the only stinging words i see is  together - gether euwwwwwwwwwwwwwww cut it out

mbhcsf

okay, back to your question

corona refers to the ? region/ areas / entity above the sun surfaces. It contains charged particle, so when it is said to be containing charged particles - teh particles could exist in the form of ions lah kan? so what are ions? they are known as charged molecules? ada cas positif / negative so when the particles are said to carry charges there surely be some form of polarity , and i dunno the word plarity implying certain form magnetic fields


so the most pertinent question is that

what are the plausible ( highly likely) form / mechanism of energy transfer and thsi must not VIOLATING the previously established premis that the outer space is vacuum?

mbhcsf

still u know it is a never ending question...and of course i just wondering what would be the effect if the vaccum of space is said to be containing the energy  ( atau heat)
adakah teh space will be ? filled up / with too high amount of radiation ?
and betulkah satu doc kat discovery channel astro kata the space needs to be "cool off" as to making certain EM rays like gamma, beta etc not so highly radiated? like depa semua ni taklah emitting high level of radiation sebab cooling effect ofteh outer space..

mbhcsf

and thank God space is vaccum i could not imagine hearing those bising bising noise of something blasting off lah in the ouer space

hints : sound wave is abit diferent kan compared to the other wave and sound wave cannot be transmitted without a MEDIUM so if space is not vacuumed wecould be hearing  you know banyak bunyi , plausible ker?

but sound wave needs to be transferred v thru a medium tapi kan bukan udara space is vacuum still ...

aku_EnSeM

panjangnye post2 korg... byk ilmu ek...

paparock

Victor Pizzo, a physicist at the National Oceanic andAtmospheric Administration's Space Environment Center, explains.The fact that the sun's corona is very hot--one million to twomillionkelvins in "quiet" regions, two million to five million inmagneticallystrong active regions and higher yet in solar flares--waswellestablished by the 1940s. Temperatures in the cooler photosphere(thevisible surface of the sun, where we see sunspots) and theoverlyingchromosphere (where we best see prominences and the expandingmagneticstructure in the lower solar atmosphere) had been determinedlong beforethat by spectroscopic observations. For example, thecharacteristicbrilliant red of the chromosphere seen during solareclipses was readilytraced via so-called Balmer line emissions fromhydrogen to material ataround 6,000 kelvins. Astronomers recorded redand green line emissionfrom the corona during eclipses as early as1867, but they could notassociate them with any known laboratoryspectra. For a time peoplespeculated that the coronal emissions weredue to coronium, a potentialnew element found only in the sun.Finally, however, it was recognizedthat the observed color lines arisefrom what are known as forbiddenemissions from very hot atoms (in therange of one million K or more)occurring under highly rarifiedconditions. That is, only in anultra-low density medium, such as thecorona, are collisions betweenatoms so infrequent that atomicpopulations can be maintained in theright kind of energy states toenable the observed emission. Althoughthese high coronal temperatures came as a surprise toearly observers,it did not take long for theoretical explanations tosurface. They fallinto three main categories: In the first, thephotosphere can be likenedto the bubbling surface of boiling water; itis a seething mass ofrising and falling columns of hot fluid. And justas the roiling watermakes noise, so does the convective overturning ofthe solar surfacefill its atmosphere with intense sound waves. Thus,if you could standon the solar surface, not only would it be very hotbut it would also beincredibly loud. At least some of this sound makesits way upward intothe corona, where dissipative processes covert theaudio energy intoheat. Because the coronal material is so thin andtenuous, only a tinyportion of all the sound energy in the photosphereneeds to bleed upinto the corona and be absorbed in order to heat itto the observedtemperatures. The second theory is really just an elaboration of thefirst.The bubbling fluid of the photosphere is threaded by magneticfields,some of which are many thousands of times as intense as Earth'sfield,but most of which are a good deal weaker. (The fields locatednearsunspots are the strongest.) The presence of this magneticfieldenables the energy from the boiling motion to propagate upward inavariety of ways as magnetohydrodynamic waves. These are analogoustopure sound waves, but their properties depend on the magneticfieldstrength and direction. Some of these waves allow forparticularlyefficient transmission and deposition of energy and so arefavored bymany theorists as the corona's heating source. The thirdexplanation is quite different. In this case theheating is thought toarise from the interaction of the magneticstructure in the lower solaratmosphere with the convective motionsmentioned above. The near-surfacelayers of the sun comprise countlesssmall and large loops of magneticflux, looking something like thefield lines connecting the poles of abar magnet. As the boiling motiontwists and pushes the foot points ofthe field lines around, strongelectric currents are induced along thefield lines. The surface layerscan thus be viewed as a mass ofcurrent-carrying wires, which come tobe twisted and braided into ahopelessly tangled mass. Eventually, by aprocess known as reconnection(which can be thought of as ashort-circuiting of the wires), the fieldlines rearrange themselvesinto a simpler pattern. In this process,large amounts of energy arereleased to heat the corona.At the very least, all these hypotheses appear capable of explainingtheobserved magnitude of coronal heating. Yet the detailedobservationsneeded to distinguish among them have not been made. Inaddition, thereare other unrelated theories of heating (the decay ofneutrons leakingout from the sun, dissipation of heretofore unobservedmassive subatomicparticles, and so forth) that cannot be ruled outwith existingobservations or theoretical understanding. More than halfa centuryafter the corona was determined indisputably to be very hot,there is noconsensus as to which particular mechanism or mechanismsactually doesor do the heating. Indeed, given current remote sensing techniques, aconclusiveresolution of all these hypotheses may not even be possible.The surestcourse would be to sample directly the actual plasma in thesolaratmosphere to as low an elevation as practical. This wouldentailcareful measurement of the distributions of electrons and ions intermsof both direction and speed across a range of heights in thecorona.The various mechanisms described above are thought to leavetelltalesignatures that would be evident in such measurements. Aspacecraftmissionto accomplish precisely this goal has been in the works forseveraldecades now, but the technological difficulties involved arebothdaunting and costly to overcome. No matter what the missionconcept, thespacecraft and its instrumentation would be subjected toenormousamounts of heat during the approach to the sun, so the passthrough thesolar atmosphere would have to be done quickly. Not onlywouldspacecraft survival be a difficult proposition, but even thecapture ofmeaningful data (and its transmission to Earth) would be amajorchallenge. You can read more about what a prospective solarprobemission could look like via the link provided below. Hopefully,some time in the near future, funding will becomeavailable to supportsuch a mission to finally resolve the mystery ofcoronal heating.

Prepare to empty your pocket guys!! Nak sangat pecahkah rahsia coronatu kan?

mbhcsf

wow Papa...hehe hm a lot to digest ni

saden

Originally posted by mbhcsf at 7-3-2009 03:02
so the most pertinent question is that

what are the plausible ( highly likely) form / mechanism of energytransfer and thsi must not VIOLATING the previously established premisthat the outer space is vacuum?

Whatever energy transfer yg tak depend on temperature gradient la. Macam yg paparock paste tu, basically yg induction mechanism like magnetic whatever tu.

But still, those methods tak boleh account for the amount and steady rate of energy transferred.

aku_EnSeM

Pjg sgt r post atas tu, jenuh nk bace..