Muhammad pendidik unggul?

apam

Sephiroth posted on 6-5-2014 08:46 AM
Maaf, aku tak layan orang2 yg menpunyai avatar seorang pelacur. Terima kasih.

bro, apsal ko angin sangat dengan Muhammad? Dia ade kacau hidup kau ke? Dia banyak pengikut pun bukannya dia paksa. Dia pun dah takde dalam dunia ni. Kau ni macam jiwa kacau aje.

Sephiroth

apam posted on 14-5-2014 03:07 PM
bro, apsal ko angin sangat dengan Muhammad? Dia ade kacau hidup kau ke? Dia banyak pengikut pun bu ...

Memang dia "kacau" hidup kami (bukan Muslims). Kamu tahu tak berapa banyak orang Hindu MATI kerana kata2 yg disampaikannya (dijilidkan menjadi Al Quran dan Al-Hadith)? 80 JUTA orang Hindu mati di India kerana Islam. Hentak berapa juta yg mati di Africa dan Middle East sejak kemunculan Islam.

Jadi, selagi Islam itu wujud, peperangan menentang ajaran tersebut akan tetap berterusan supaya anak cucu kami tidak menjadi mangsa seperti nenek moyang kami.

sam1528

Sephiroth posted on 15-5-2014 10:31 AM
Memang dia "kacau" hidup kami (bukan Muslims). Kamu tahu tak berapa banyak orang Hindu MATI kerana kata2 yg disampaikannya (dijilidkan menjadi Al Quran dan Al-Hadith)? 80 JUTA orang Hindu mati di India kerana Islam. Hentak berapa juta yg mati di Africa dan Middle East sejak kemunculan Islam.

Jadi, selagi Islam itu wujud, peperangan menentang ajaran tersebut akan tetap berterusan supaya anak cucu kami tidak menjadi mangsa seperti nenek moyang kami.

Boleh tak pakai otak sikit? Anggaran peningkatan penduduk di India antara 1000 CE - 1600 CE adalah 60 juta (75mil - 135 mil).


India jatuh kepada muslim ~ 1200 CE. India jatuh kepada Inggeris / Belanda / Portugal ~ 1600 CE. Anggaran tersebut menggunakan De Vries’ Estimates of the Urban Population of Europe, 1000 to 1800 AD dari History of World population Growth.

Macamana ko boleh temberang yg 80 juta org India mati dlm pemerintahan Islam di India selama ~ 400thn? Kalau 80juta mati , India akan mengalami 'negative population growth'. Aiyoyo meenachi , kalau nak temberang pun pakai otak lah. Guna fakta bukan auta.

Sephiroth

by sam1528

Boleh tak pakai otak sikit? Anggaran peningkatan penduduk di India antara 1000 CE - 1600 CE adalah 60 juta (75mil - 135 mil).

Kamu ini ... jenis terencat akal kah?

Bila masa aku bagi tempoh antara 1000 CE - 1600 CE? Aku kata lebih kurang 80 juta orang mati di India kerana Islam. Itu bermakna dari kemunculan Islam pada CE1000 sampai sekarang. Ini termasuk kerana tiga peperangan antara Pakistan dan India, hampir sejuta orang mati semasa Pemisahan India-Pakistan/Bangladesh dan Riot 1850an dulu.

Memandai je kamu taruk anggar kamu sendiri.
Kalau kamu berani sangat, bagi tahu berapa orang hindu yg mati antara 400 tahun Islam memerintah India.

sam1528

Sephiroth posted on 15-5-2014 01:13 PM
Kamu ini ... jenis terencat akal kah?

Bila masa aku bagi tempoh antara 1000 CE - 1600 CE? Aku kata lebih kurang 80 juta orang mati di India kerana Islam. Itu bermakna dari kemunculan Islam pada CE1000 sampai sekarang. Ini termasuk kerana tiga peperangan antara Pakistan dan India, hampir sejuta orang mati semasa Pemisahan India-Pakistan/Bangladesh dan Riot 1850an dulu.

Memandai je kamu taruk anggar kamu sendiri.
Kalau kamu berani sangat, bagi tahu berapa orang hindu yg mati antara 400 tahun Islam memerintah India.

Terbongkar temberang ko tu , dah mula gelabah. Soalan skg mana ko dapat auta 80 juta org hindu India mati kerana Islam? 80 juta ni rujukkan dari mana atau hanya dari imaginasi kamu?

Konflik India Pakistan ~ 1 juta kematian , jumlah dari 2 pihak. Bermakna anggaran kematian kaum India (hindu) kurang dari 1 juta ~ 500k. Mana lagi 79.5 juta kematian orang hindu India yg ko dok bebel? Islam mula disebar di India secara aman oleh peniaga2 arab/india ~ 700CE.

Tak macam ko , aku ada rujukkan fakta yg menyebelahi aku. Rujukkan tersebut diambil dari 'The World Economy : A Millennial  Perspective' (Angus Maddison) yg di taja oleh OECD - Carta B-10 mukasurat 241. Ia menunjukkan peningkatan penduduk India ~ 60 juta dari 1000 CE hingga 1600 CE. India jatuh ke tangan muslim ~ 1200CE dan kemudian Inggeris / Belanda / Portugal ~ 1600 CE.  Macamana ko boleh temberang 80juta orang hindu India mati pada masa 400 thn pemerintahan muslim (~ 1200 CE - 1600 CE) manakala fakta menunjukkan peningkatan jumlah penduduk sebanyak 60 juta?

Kalau 80 juta mati , bermakna peningkatan jumlah penduduk India adalah -ve. Dari carta tersebut , jumlah penduduk India pada 1000CE adalah 75 juta dan pada 1500CE adalah 110 juta bermakna peningkatan 35 juta dalam 500 thn. Purata peningkatan adalah 7 juta / 100 tahun. Ini bermakna jumlah penduduk India (kemungkinan hindu) adalah ~ 89 juta pada 1200 CE. Kita bagi ~ 9 juta dah peluk Islam pada 1200 CE. Kalo ko kata 80 juta hindu India mati oleh sebab pemerintahan Islam (1200 CE - 1600 CE) bermakna tak ada lagi orang hindu di India. Jelas menunjukkan yg ko tu langsung tak guna fakta & logik.

Macamana nak tahu berapa ramai orang hindu mati pada 400 tahun pemerintahan Islam. Tapi fakta menunjukkan peningkatan penduduk di India bermakna kematian orang hindu pada zaman tersebut adalah teramat sedikit. 80 juta mati? Ini pemikiran orang yg tak siuman. Rujukkan apa pun ko tak ada. Meenachi , kurang sikit temberang boleh tak? Mana bukti / rujukkan ko tu?

Sephiroth

by sam5128

Islam mula disebar di India secara aman oleh peniaga2 arab/india ~ 700CE

Ini jawapan kamu ke? Penipuan bahawa Islam kamu itu datang ke India dgn "aman". Muhammad kamu pun tak pernah hidup ataupun mati dgn aman, apatah lagi kamu dia itu.

Kita semua tahu sejarah Islam di India lah. Jangan nak menperbodohkan kami. TAK ADA KEAMANAN DALAM ISLAM - itulah hakikatnya. Yang pasti adalah berjuta2 orang hindu mati ditangan orang Islam sejak 400 tahun pemerintahan orang Moghul Islam di India. Itu adalah sejarah. Aku mungkin tidak dapat jumlah tepat berapa banyak yg mati tetapi yg pastinya adalah ianya satu jumlah yg tinggi.

Kaum Hindu yg ada sekarang harus diperingatkan bahawa mereka tak seharusnya leka dgn kaum Islam kerana tak ada sebarang kejahatan yg lebih teruk dari orang2 Islam di dunia ini.

sam1528

Sephiroth posted on 15-5-2014 02:31 PM
Ini jawapan kamu ke? Penipuan bahawa Islam kamu itu datang ke India dgn "aman". Muhammad kamu pun tak pernah hidup ataupun mati dgn aman, apatah lagi kamu dia itu.

Kita semua tahu sejarah Islam di India lah. Jangan nak menperbodohkan kami. TAK ADA KEAMANAN DALAM ISLAM - itulah hakikatnya. Yang pasti adalah berjuta2 orang hindu mati ditangan orang Islam sejak 400 tahun pemerintahan orang Moghul Islam di India. Itu adalah sejarah. Aku mungkin tidak dapat jumlah tepat berapa banyak yg mati tetapi yg pastinya adalah ianya satu jumlah yg tinggi.

Kaum Hindu yg ada sekarang harus diperingatkan bahawa mereka tak seharusnya leka dgn kaum Islam kerana tak ada sebarang kejahatan yg lebih teruk dari orang2 Islam di dunia ini.

Dah kena dedah temberang sekarang nak cuba lari? Mana bukti / rujukkan kamu yg 80 juta orang hindu India dibunuh oleh pemerintah muslim selama ~ 400 tahun (~1200CE - ~1600CE)? Dalam mimpi kamu? Kalau kamu tak tahu yg Islam mula2 disebar secara aman oleh pedagang Arab / India ~750Ce bermakna kamu buta sejarah.

Lagi sekali kamu ditanya , mana bukti / rujukkan kamu yg 80 juta hindu dibunuh zaman pemerintahan Islam (moghul) di India? Bukti dari rujukkan yang ditaja oleh OECD menunjukkan pertambahan hindu India ~ 30 juta selama 400 thn tersebut. Ha ha , 'yang pasti ini lah / itu lah'. Ini bukti kamu hanya  berhujah dalam mimpi. Cuba gunakan bukti / rujukkan dan logik. Sekarang tak tahu pulak dgn tepat berapa ramai kononnya dibunuh. Pasal apa pada awal2 dok sibuk 80 juta hindu dibunuh?

Kamu tak mahu berbaik dgn muslim? Terpulang pada kamu. Kamu hanya minority seorang sahaja. Hindu yang lain tak seperti kamu. Bermimpi pada siang hari. 80 juta mati? Ha ha , senang2 aje bagi nombor.

Sephiroth

by Sam1528

Mana bukti / rujukkan kamu yg 80 juta orang hindu India dibunuh oleh pemerintah muslim selama ~ 400 tahun (~1200CE - ~1600CE)? Dalam mimpi kamu?

Tunjjukan kpd aku bila masa saya buat kenyataan yg saya boldkan di atas ini? Saya kata 80 juta oleh Islam je, bukan dlm masa 400 tahun yg kamu katakan itu.

Kalau kamu tak tahu yg Islam mula2 disebar secara aman oleh pedagang Arab / India ~750Ce bermakna kamu buta sejarah.

Source : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_India

Memang Islam datang ke India pada kurun ke 11 melalui Malabar dan Gujerat. Tetapi ianya diikuti oleh penalukan ke atas India yg dihantar oleh Kesultanan Islam di Damascus pada tahun 711. Boleh dikatakan peniaga2 Islam yg datang ke India 100 tahun sebelumnya bertugas sbg perisik dan mengumpul maklumat mengenai India sebelum menghantarkannya ke Damascus. Oleh itu, Islam sememangnya menpunyai niat jahat terhadap India sejak dulu lagi.

Adalah kesilapan Raja2 Hindu yg menberikan orang Islam tempat di India (Malabar dan Gujerat) yg menjadi punca kpd kejatuhan India. Orang2 Hindu terlalu lembut dgn semua orang dan itulah akibat yg mereka terima - mereka diperhambakan oleh orang2 gasar. Satu kesilapan yg saya tak nak diulangi oleh kaum Hindu di masa depan nanti.

Sephiroth

To ALL Muslims like sam5128, Kid and others who kept claiming Islam is peaceful.

Source : http://forumforhinduawakening.or ... -increasing-attack/

The mob arrived at around midnight, brandishing clubs. They smashed statues, looted gold artefacts and then set the Hindu temple in Pakistan ablaze.

An accusation of blasphemy sparked the attack in the town of Larkana, human rights activists said, part of a spike in violence against Hindus in predominately Muslim Pakistan.

All of Pakistan’s minorities – Hindus, Christians, Ahmadis and even Shi’ite Muslims – feel that the state fails to protect them, and even tolerates violence against them.

Many complain the problem has become worse since Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif, who is seen as more conservative and indulgent of Islamists than his predecessor, came to power last year.

This is what Islam made human beings into - animals who goes around hurting and abusing other people in the name of their religion.

How long do you think before we (non-Muslims) pick up a weapon, go from house to house and start killing Muslims? Do you think you are strong enough to handle situation IF we become enraged and start doing things you are doing to us? Do you really want this?

When War begins (and it will soon) - there is no room for excuses like "I'm innocent, I didn't do anything". Any Muslims who sees injustice (done by their fellow Muslims toward non-Muslims) and remain silent - he or she is GUILTY for not taking any actions and whatever punishment awaits the Muslims do did evil, awaits you as well. Be forewarned.

apam

Sephiroth posted on 15-5-2014 10:31 AM
Memang dia "kacau" hidup kami (bukan Muslims). Kamu tahu tak berapa banyak orang Hindu MATI kerana ...

itu hanya tuduhan tanpa bukti bro. very lame. kalau ade pembunuhan pun, itu terjadi waktu perang yg kita pun tak tahu puncanya, masa perang zaman dulu, rekod sejarah, muslim selalunya minoriti, dan dlm peperangan mereka boleh dibunuh dan membunuh.
Kalau go by today standard pun, berapa banyak org awam mati kena bom dgn amerika mcm di afgahnistan, iraq, japan...even kerajaan komunis china banyak bunuh rakyat sendiri sehingga bejuta2. Dan these people tak mampu melawan balik.

sam1528

Sephiroth posted on 16-5-2014 08:20 AM
by Sam1528

Tunjjukan kpd aku bila masa saya buat kenyataan yg saya boldkan di atas ini? Saya kata 80 juta oleh Islam je, bukan dlm masa 400 tahun yg kamu katakan itu.

Ini menunjukkan yang ko mula nak lari , kononnya 80 juta hindu mati kerana Islam. Muslims perintah India selama ~ 400 thn. Kalau hindu India mati sebab Islam adalah kerana pemerintahan Islam. Mana dia kononnya 80 juta hindu mati? Fakta menunjukkan pertambahan penduduk ~ 35 juta pada era tersebut. Ko dah malu pasal ditangkap membohong.

Source : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_India

Memang Islam datang ke India pada kurun ke 11 melalui Malabar dan Gujerat. Tetapi ianya diikuti oleh penalukan ke atas India yg dihantar oleh Kesultanan Islam di Damascus pada tahun 711. Boleh dikatakan peniaga2 Islam yg datang ke India 100 tahun sebelumnya bertugas sbg perisik dan mengumpul maklumat mengenai India sebelum menghantarkannya ke Damascus. Oleh itu, Islam sememangnya menpunyai niat jahat terhadap India sejak dulu lagi.

Adalah kesilapan Raja2 Hindu yg menberikan orang Islam tempat di India (Malabar dan Gujerat) yg menjadi punca kpd kejatuhan India. Orang2 Hindu terlalu lembut dgn semua orang dan itulah akibat yg mereka terima - mereka diperhambakan oleh orang2 gasar. Satu kesilapan yg saya tak nak diulangi oleh kaum Hindu di masa depan nanti.

Dari copy post kamu : 'Islam first came to India with Arab traders as early as 7th century AD to coastal Malabar.[4] Islam arrived in 11th century to coastal Gujarat.[5] Islam arrived in north India in 12th century with Turkic invasions and has since become a part of India's religious and cultural heritage.[6]'

Copy paste kamu nyatakan India mulai ditakluk pada 1200 CE. Ha ha , peniaga2 arab adalah perisik utk Baghdad? Kamu ni mabuk ke? Copy paste kamu nyatakan India mulai ditakluk oleh geng Turkey.

Nak tau pasal apa raja2 hindu benarkan Islam. Pengakuan Mahatma Ghandi :

Mahatma Gandhi, statement published in 'Young India,'1924.

    I wanted to know the best of the life of one who holds today an undisputed sway over the hearts of millions of mankind.... I became more than ever convinced that it was not the sword that won a place for Islam in those days in the scheme of life. It was the rigid simplicity, the utter self-effacement of the Prophet the scrupulous regard for pledges, his intense devotion to his friends and followers, his intrepidity, his fearlessness, his absolute trust in God and in his own mission. These and not the sword carried everything before them and surmounted every obstacle. When I closed the second volume (of the Prophet's biography), I was sorry there was not more for me to read of that great life.

Macamana skg? Hero kamu dah buat pengakuan tersebut? Oops , skg pada kamu Mahatma Ghandi adalah pembelot?

sam1528

Sephiroth posted on 16-5-2014 08:45 AM
To ALL Muslims like sam5128, Kid and others who kept claiming Islam is peaceful.

Source : http://forumforhinduawakening.or ... -increasing-attack/

The mob arrived at around midnight, brandishing clubs. They smashed statues, looted gold artefacts and then set the Hindu temple in Pakistan ablaze.

An accusation of blasphemy sparked the attack in the town of Larkana, human rights activists said, part of a spike in violence against Hindus in predominately Muslim Pakistan.

All of Pakistan’s minorities – Hindus, Christians, Ahmadis and even Shi’ite Muslims – feel that the state fails to protect them, and even tolerates violence against them.

Many complain the problem has become worse since Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif, who is seen as more conservative and indulgent of Islamists than his predecessor, came to power last year

This is what Islam made human beings into - animals who goes around hurting and abusing other people in the name of their religion.

How long do you think before we (non-Muslims) pick up a weapon, go from house to house and start killing Muslims? Do you think you are strong enough to handle situation IF we become enraged and start doing things you are doing to us? Do you really want this?

When War begins (and it will soon) - there is no room for excuses like "I'm innocent, I didn't do anything". Any Muslims who sees injustice (done by their fellow Muslims toward non-Muslims) and remain silent - he or she is GUILTY for not taking any actions and whatever punishment awaits the Muslims do did evil, awaits you as well. Be forewarned.

You cannot even differentiate what is law and mob rule. So much so for your education.

Ok then , we can also play this game : The myth of Ram's temple has become a licence to kill in India (The Independent 5th March 2002)

I expect no such call from the ministry this week. The deaths of at least 450, and probably more than 1,000, Gujaratis, nearly all Muslims, in four days of communal bestiality have exploded for ever the Hindu nationalist Bharatiya Janata Party's (BJP) claim to have presided over an era of communal peace.

Why the Babri Mosque was demolished by the hindu mobs? Answer - its their (the hindu) belief that your god , Ram (the incarnation of Vishnu) was born there. Whaaa!! A God been born? What kind of God is this?

What say you? Going by your skewed logic , irrational hindus like you are animals. Yes?

Sephiroth

by Sam1528

You cannot even differentiate what is law and mob rule. So much so for your education.  

So many Muslims behaving the same way - by giving inhuman treatment toward non-Muslims and you call it as mob rule. No, this is Islam. And it is good thing you people behave like this. It will serve to enrage non-Muslims and very soon, they will bound together and kill the Muslims.

Imagine this - Hindus, Buddhists, Jews and Christians all come together with one goal in mind - THE DESTRUCTION OF ISLAM FROM THE WORLD. Very soon, that WILL happen with these sort of attitude Muslims have toward non-Muslims.

Muslims - you need to understand one thing. You treat us good, we will treat you fairly. You treat us bad, then may your god help you for our rage will burn the Muslim World down. Be forewarned.

Why the Babri Mosque was demolished by the hindu mobs?

Answer :- BECAUSE INDIA IS NOT SAUDI ARABIA. WHO GAVE YOU PERMISSION TO BUILD A MOSQUE IN HINDU LAND? By right, every mosque in India should be demolished as India belongs to Hindus.

sam1528

Sephiroth posted on 16-5-2014 01:31 PM
by Sam1528

So many Muslims behaving the same way - by giving inhuman treatment toward non-Muslims and you call it as mob rule. No, this is Islam. And it is good thing you people behave like this. It will serve to enrage non-Muslims and very soon, they will bound together and kill the Muslims.

Imagine this - Hindus, Buddhists, Jews and Christians all come together with one goal in mind - THE DESTRUCTION OF ISLAM FROM THE WORLD. Very soon, that WILL happen with these sort of attitude Muslims have toward non-Muslims.

Muslims - you need to understand one thing. You treat us good, we will treat you fairly. You treat us bad, then may your god help you for our rage will burn the Muslim World down. Be forewarned.

What utter BS is this? Mob rule exist when people like you exist. You cannot differentiate between what is lawful and your own violent lust. Too bad for you , people like you are a minority. You are just arguing from your wet dreams.

I don't live in imagination. My world and the majority is the world of reality and hard facts. Only dreamers like you live in a world full of imagination. How many hindus are earning their living in the mid east because of the $? Time for you to wake up and smell the coffee.

We have always treated you well despite the fact that you harbour the 'imagination' to kill muslims. You should seek professional help.

Answer :- BECAUSE INDIA IS NOT SAUDI ARABIA. WHO GAVE YOU PERMISSION TO BUILD A MOSQUE IN HINDU LAND? By right, every mosque in India should be demolished as India belongs to Hindus.

A fine example of hinduism being a religion of 'tolerance'. Thank you , you just demonstrated why hinduism is not a global religion. Millions of Indian muslims disagree with you. Are there any hindus is Mecca? Yes or no?

Is Barbri the place where your God Ram was born? A God born out of what? Conjugal relationship of other Gods? Ha ha , where is the birth certificate confirming the God Ram was born there?

Sephiroth

by sam1528

What utter BS is this? Mob rule exist when people like you exist. You cannot differentiate between what is lawful and your own violent lust. Too bad for you , people like you are a minority.

And what is lawful? Who decides which is lawful or not? You? Your Muhammad? Your clergymen?

In islam, it is lawful to expect non-muslims to pay Jiyzah or protection money to Muslims for protection and rights to live in Muslim territory. In Common Laws - mobsters exhort protection money under threats to those they "protect."

In islam, it is lawful to expect Muslims to establish Hudud Laws and non-Muslims must follow or risk getting killed. In Common Laws - such practice is redeemed against human rights and freedom of the human race.

This shows that your Islam have no idea what is lawful and what is not. It is against the very nature of Man (to be free in pursuit of Spiritualism by his own means) and against the norm of society. IF your Allah truly god, then how come he cannot even come out with a religion that fits modern times? This proves that your Allah is a false god.

How many hindus are earning their living in the mid east because of the $?

Who gives damn how many hindus living in middle-east and earning living working for Muslims. That is irrelevant to the topic here.

Millions of Indian muslims disagree with you.

Millions you say. Show me one HERE then talk.

Again, the issue of Shri Rama born there is irrelevant. What is relevant is - MUSLIMS HAVE NO RIGHTS IN INDIA. Full stop.

sam1528

Sephiroth posted on 16-5-2014 03:09 PM
by sam1528

And what is lawful? Who decides which is lawful or not? You? Your Muhammad? Your clergymen?

In islam, it is lawful to expect non-muslims to pay Jiyzah or protection money to Muslims for protection and rights to live in Muslim territory. In Common Laws - mobsters exhort protection money under threats to those they "protect."

In islam, it is lawful to expect Muslims to establish Hudud Laws and non-Muslims must follow or risk getting killed. In Common Laws - such practice is redeemed against human rights and freedom of the human race.

This shows that your Islam have no idea what is lawful and what is not. It is against the very nature of Man (to be free in pursuit of Spiritualism by his own means) and against the norm of society. IF your Allah truly god, then how come he cannot even come out with a religion that fits modern times? This proves that your Allah is a false god.

Lawful is something that is within the boundries of the law , religious or secular. Any law does not support mob rule to which you ascribe to. Therefore you are just a minority who wants to fulfill your cowardy thirst for violence. Too bad for you.

Anyone who lives in any territory is expected to pay taxes to the authority. Jizya is a form of tax. Jizya is only on the able bodied males of military age. Income tax , GST , SST etc are on everyone. Therefore in comparison , Jizya is a lot more compassionate. In history , Jizya by the caliphs is about 4 dinars (~ RM661 x 4) or 40 dirhams (~ RM25 x 40) per able bodied male per year - per hadith Malik Muwatta Book 17 Number 17.24.44. This again shows your ignorance in this topic. You pay less taxes with Jizya. Why complain if you pay less in taxes. Not very intelligent are you? What is the problem with Hudud Laws? Can you elaborate what is the problem? Where does it say id you go against Hudud laws , the person is to be killed. You are farting thru your mouth. Oh , I see common law is for human rights? What about this one -

In the city of York it is legal to murder a Scotsman within the ancient city walls, but only if he is carrying a bow and arrow (2%)

Where is the so called human rights? Hmm , you talking about laws whereas you harbour the lawless thoughts to murder every muslim? You should be the last one talking about freedom and human rights.

Another baseless claim from you. Where is your proof that Islam cannot fit modern times? Why are arguing on speculation? Provide your proof. As far as I can see , you argument lack intelligence because you offer no proof. Just violent emotions. Hinduism teach such? Apprently it does looking at your level of argument.

Who gives damn how many hindus living in middle-east and earning living working for Muslims. That is irrelevant to the topic here.

The hindus working there give a damn. They bring back good $ to their family. Ha ha , this is funny. You detest muslims but your kind go to them in the mid east begging for work. Are you not embarrassed? It is relevant because it shows how low you have sunk. Hindus are earning a living from the people that you detest. Too bad for you .... embarrassing , isn't it?

Millions you say. Show me one HERE then talk.

Again, the issue of Shri Rama born there is irrelevant. What is relevant is - MUSLIMS HAVE NO RIGHTS IN INDIA. Full stop.

The muslims of India consider themselves Indian nationals. What is the issue? If you consider India for hindus only , then what about the hindus living out or emmigrated from India? You cannot even think 2 steps ahead of you. Now you are caught in a trap. What about your rights in Malaysia? You should expect what you expect from others. Yes? Oh yeah , you want to behead all muslims regardless where you are. Ha ha , the reasoning of a lawless person namely you , a hindu extremist devoid of any rational thinking.

The question of the birth of Ram is relevant. Hindu extremists like you claim he was born in Barbri. Firstly the ridiculous notion that a God being born and secondly where is his birth certificate that certify of Ram being born in Babri? Can you provide such before claiming Ram's birth right. Oooh I see , muslims have no rights in India? Wow! Can I now say that hindus like you are like the Nazis. Is your other holy scripture , the Mein Kampf?

Sephiroth

by sam1528

Any law does not support mob rule to which you ascribe to.

Then your Islam should be thrown out from being practice first. Reason - Muhammad established Islamic rule under a mob rule where he went out and attacked caravans and other (lesser) tribes with excuse that they are plotting against him. Even today, Muslims' cry to implement Hudud System which control non-Muslims' lives are just one such mob rule.

Jizya is a form of tax.  

Does Muslims expected to pay Jizya to Muslim rulers like non-Muslims?
IF the answer is NO, then Jizya is NOT EQUAL to tax. Tax is paid by ALL citizens for the benefits of the society in whole.

Jizya equals protection money, not tax. So the claim you pay less means it is OK to pay is irrational. You pay protection money so you and your family will not be abused is against the human rights. And your Islam teaches Muslims to expect and force non-Muslims to pay the protection money or suffer.

Where is the so called human rights?

It is agreed upon and followed by every civilized society which is not a Muslim society. The ONLY reason why Muslims are still alive IS because we (non-Muslims) believe in the Human Rights (which include your rights to believe in whatever religion of your choosing). YOU ARE ALIVE BECAUSE WE ALLOW YOU TO LIVE.

Hmm , you talking about laws whereas you harbour the lawless thoughts to murder every muslim?

IF you can daydream of establishing a Nazi-like rule on this World based on Islam - where we (non-Muslims) will lose our rights to live as we please, then it is NOT lawful for me to have thoughts to killing every Muslims on the Planet - every men, women AND children. Let's not forget about the children for they will grow up and strap a bomb up their a$$.

Where is your proof that Islam cannot fit modern times?

Where is your proof that Islam CAN fit in modern times? What did Islam give to modern society today which no other belief (including Atheism) could possibly give?

You detest muslims but your kind go to them in the mid east begging for work. Are you not embarrassed?

Why should I be embarrassed? WHO are they that I should be embarrassed about their actions?
IF it pleases you, you can KILL them or CONVERT them to become Muslims. I do not care less.

The muslims of India consider themselves Indian nationals.

Wrong. There is no Muslims who are Indian nationals. They have loyalty ONLY for Allah and Muhammad (the Arab). Therefore, one should not consider Muslims in India as citizens of India and should take away their rights to have mosques.

IF they argue - KILL THEM.

sam1528

Sephiroth posted on 17-5-2014 05:21 PM
by sam1528

Then your Islam should be thrown out from being practice first. Reason - Muhammad established Islamic rule under a mob rule where he went out and attacked caravans and other (lesser) tribes with excuse that they are plotting against him. Even today, Muslims' cry to implement Hudud System which control non-Muslims' lives are just one such mob rule.

You are one ignorant person. Attacking the caravans was recorded by Ibn Ishaq. The same chapter also stated that the caravans attacked were selling the properties of the emigrated muslims. Meaning the meccans confiscated the properties of the muslims who emigtared to medina and sold them. The muslims had every right to claim the proceeds of the sale. This again shows that either you are ignorant or disengenous. Which one is it? Hudud is a ruling of a crime same as common law. What is the issue here? It is certainly not mob rule as the ruling of a crime comes under a court that finds a person guilty or otherwise. Appears that you are talking about things beyond your comprehension. Hence your mindless blabber. Can you make some sense of your diatribe. Mob rule means that there is no law. You are like 'truth.8' , having problems understanding english.

Does Muslims expected to pay Jizya to Muslim rulers like non-Muslims?
IF the answer is NO, then Jizya is NOT EQUAL to tax. Tax is paid by ALL citizens for the benefits of the society in whole.

Jizya equals protection money, not tax. So the claim you pay less means it is OK to pay is irrational. You pay protection money so you and your family will not be abused is against the human rights. And your Islam teaches Muslims to expect and force non-Muslims to pay the protection money or suffer.

Muslims are expected to pay zakat which is a minimum of 2.5% and levied on all profits or non movable savings. This is a lot higher than Jizya which is on able bodied males only. The people under Jizya gets the military protection and autonomy. Meaning it is self rule with military protection. Compare this with the old (ancient) taxation system in India :

He laid down that traders and artisans should pay 1/5th of their profits in silver and gold, while the agriculturists were to pay 1/6th, 1/8th and 1/10th of their produce depending upon their circumstances. The detailed analysis given by Manu on the subject clearly shows the existence of a well-planned taxation system, even in ancient times. Not only this, taxes were also levied on various classes of people like actors, dancers, singers and even dancing girls. Taxes were paid in the shape of gold-coins, cattle, grains, raw-materials and also by rendering personal service.

This is not to mention of the tributes one state has to pay its conquerers , if it being conquered. An example as follows :

The victories in war with the Chalukyas would enable to Cholas to gain much riches, gold, jewellery, cavalry items like horses, elephants and armaments in addition to vast sums of cash which were ceded by the Chalukya kings as tribute to the Chola emperors, who graciously restored them their empires and re-integrated them with their wives, children etc.

Compare Jizya to gold, jewellery, cavalry items like horses, elephants and armaments in addition to vast sums of cash being tributes in ancient hinduism. A comparison shows that Jizya is much better.

Not paying taxes means punitive action can be taken against you. This is true in any society and in any government throughout the ages. Your argument about action taken against non tax payers is just BS as this has been a practice of everyone through out the ages. Try not paying your income tax or property tax. See what will happen to you. You cannot think very well , can you?

It is agreed upon and followed by every civilized society which is not a Muslim society. The ONLY reason why Muslims are still alive IS because we (non-Muslims) believe in the Human Rights (which include your rights to believe in whatever religion of your choosing). YOU ARE ALIVE BECAUSE WE ALLOW YOU TO LIVE.

Another silly argument from you. The caste system is engrained and enshrined in hinduism , your religion , which is against human rights. How can people born to a caste? You hindus allow us muslims to live? Hindus were under muslim rule for 400 years. If the muslims were ruthless , hindus would have been wiped out. Instead the population flourished. Can you think intelligently before you argue. Your argument is the argument of a person who cannot think but acting on emotions. Such is just the actions of animals not human beings.

IF you can daydream of establishing a Nazi-like rule on this World based on Islam - where we (non-Muslims) will lose our rights to live as we please, then it is NOT lawful for me to have thoughts to killing every Muslims on the Planet - every men, women AND children. Let's not forget about the children for they will grow up and strap a bomb up their a$$.

I live in a world of reality and facts. You are the one daydreaming to be hindu extremist with nazi ideology. You stated as follows , post#355 :

What is relevant is - MUSLIMS HAVE NO RIGHTS IN INDIA. Full stop.

The issue now is that you expect full rights from non hindus out of India but muslims in India you argue for no rights. Apart from a bigot , you are into nazism. Why are you trying to change the topic to Nazi like rule based on Islam? Islam is a global religion. Even from the time of Prophet Muhammad(saw) , Islam cuts across racial boundries with converts from Israelites , Egyptians , Ethopians , Byzantines , Persians etc. By the way the leaders of suicide bombing is the LTTE (the Tamil Tigers) - they are Hindus but the top people are christians. Ha ha , I bet you don't not know this fact because you are not well read.

Where is your proof that Islam CAN fit in modern times? What did Islam give to modern society today which no other belief (including Atheism) could possibly give?

We muslims are living in the modern world but retaining our values. What is the issue? At least not in Hinduism which can see marriage to dogs , sutee etc. Does this fit into the modern world? Again , you are not a well read person. An example , algorithm which makes computers possible was from Al-Khawarizimi ~ 800CE. Ha ha , meenachi , you have nothing but argue on presentism. In fact until now hinduism is just a fringe religion. You need to come to terms with this fact.

Why should I be embarrassed? WHO are they that I should be embarrassed about their actions?
IF it pleases you, you can KILL them or CONVERT them to become Muslims. I do not care less.

You just pretend that you are not embarassed. Ha ha , begging for work from the people you despise. You are in denial. When the truth hits you smack on your face (or whats left of it) , you do what extremists do - deny it. Ha ha , I love this.

Wrong. There is no Muslims who are Indian nationals. They have loyalty ONLY for Allah and Muhammad (the Arab). Therefore, one should not consider Muslims in India as citizens of India and should take away their rights to have mosques.

IF they argue - KILL THEM.

No muslims who are Indian nationals? Are you high on something? Whatever you have been smoking or drinking , it must be really strong. Ha ha , again you advocate to take away the rights of Indian muslims but demand full rights from the people whose religion is the same like the people you want the rights to be taken away or be killed. Anybody who read your post will conclude that
- you are a nutcase   ; or
- you are an extremist but an inconsistent one ; or
- you are a nutcase of an extremist but an inconsistent one

Which one are you?

I have a good friend who is a great psychiatrist having been trained in the UK and the US. He is muslim though. I can recommend you to him in case you need professional help which I think you do.

Sephiroth

by Sam1528

Attacking the caravans was recorded by Ibn Ishaq. The same chapter also stated that the caravans attacked were selling the properties of the emigrated muslims.  

So you admit that Muhammad had attacked caravans that goes between Mecca and Madinah. Thank you.

Hudud is a ruling of a crime same as common law.  

No. Hudud Laws are NOTHING like Common Laws.

Common Laws are created by men after debate in the Parliment and after listening to public opinions. The Government implementing the Common Laws must explain why they implement certain Bills and in some cases, public opinions would override the Parliment's decision to implement the Law. And finally, the important aspect in Common Laws is that the Laws can be reviewed, revised and even abolished completely by the People. CAN HUDUD LAWS BE IMPLEMENTED IN SUCH WAY? NO.

The people under Jizya gets the military protection and autonomy.

So you admit that Muslims take protection money from non-Muslims under Jizya. Thank you.

Compare Jizya to gold, jewellery, cavalry items like horses, elephants and armaments in addition to vast sums of cash being tributes in ancient hinduism.

The difference between Jizya and taxes in ancient India - the taxes in India is not written down in any religious books like Jizya which is a must for all non-Muslims. Hindus do not chop any non-hindus' heads if they refused to pay taxes. And in some cases, taxes are reduced when things become very bad in term of argiculture and economy. And besides, India is a rich nation before Islam and Christianity so such taxes are not a burden to the people.

How can people born to a caste?

Go to Hinduism column and read through some of the threads there. I really lazy want to repeat what already repeated.

If the muslims were ruthless , hindus would have been wiped out. Instead the population flourished.

Oi, look at India today. Hinduism almost wiped out of India by Islam. Taj Mahal was a Shiva temple but recreated by Muslim Shah Jahan for his prostitute. Madura prison where Shri Krishna was born was almost demolished and made into a mosque. Millions had died in hands of Muslims in 400 years than they died in famine or disease in thousands of years. Islam did not bring ANYTHING good to India and it is time Hindus got up and throw away this Arabic belief out of their borders.

Islam is a global religion.

No, Islam is an arabic religion. It has no place anywhere EXCEPT Saudi Arabia.

An example , algorithm which makes computers possible was from Al-Khawarizimi ~ 800CE.

FYI - We already had a University called Nandi in North India even BEFORE Islam was born (in 1th - 3th century).

again you advocate to take away the rights of Indian muslims but demand full rights from the people whose religion is the same like the people you want the rights to be taken away or be killed.

No, I merely saying that Muslims have no rights ANYWHERE ELSE except in Saudi Arabia where their belief system came from. And that is fact. Being Islam doesn't mean that you are qualified to be Indians or demand anything from Hindus. India and South East Asia belongs to Hindus as history had shown that they have travelled far and wide and brought culture and heritage to the people living there.

sam1528

Sephiroth posted on 19-5-2014 11:28 AM
by Sam1528

So you admit that Muhammad had attacked caravans that goes between Mecca and Madinah. Thank you.

Of course the Meccan caravans were attacked because it is not wrong to claim what has been robbed. I make no apology about it. In fact such action is supported throughout the history of the world. Such is called 'handelskreig' (origin german) or 'guerre de course' (origin french). It roughly means 'commerce raiding'.

No. Hudud Laws are NOTHING like Common Laws.

Common Laws are created by men after debate in the Parliment and after listening to public opinions. The Government implementing the Common Laws must explain why they implement certain Bills and in some cases, public opinions would override the Parliment's decision to implement the Law. And finally, the important aspect in Common Laws is that the Laws can be reviewed, revised and even abolished completely by the People. CAN HUDUD LAWS BE IMPLEMENTED IN SUCH WAY? NO.

Why should Hudud be the same like Common Law? You are now arguing about implementation , not the law itself. To implement Hudud , it needs to go to the Parliment. That is why the 'Hudud Bill'. Aiyoyo , meenachi , don't you know what is happening around you?

So you admit that Muslims take protection money from non-Muslims under Jizya. Thank you.

This is similar to what one ancient Hindu king did to another or one state that has vanquish another in the history of the world. You are ok with a victorious Hindu king taking exhorbitant tribute from a vanquish enemy but have a problem with Jizya which is miniscule in comparison? Then I say , you are not a rational person who cannot even make simple comparison.

The difference between Jizya and taxes in ancient India - the taxes in India is not written down in any religious books like Jizya which is a must for all non-Muslims. Hindus do not chop any non-hindus' heads if they refused to pay taxes. And in some cases, taxes are reduced when things become very bad in term of argiculture and economy. And besides, India is a rich nation before Islam and Christianity so such taxes are not a burden to the people.

Where does it say Jizya is a must for non muslims? You are farting thru your mouth again. Where in the history of Islam that heads of non muslims were chopped of because they refused to pay Jizya? Most of them pay because they value the military protection. Where does it state (in ancient India) that the taxes were reduced when the economy was bad? I stated 2 things
(1) the exhorbiitant taxes averaging 10% - 25%
(2) the exhorbitant tributes from gold to jewellery to livestock to arms to elephants that the victorious Hindu kings expect from the vanquished

Go to Hinduism column and read through some of the threads there. I really lazy want to repeat what already repeated.

The fact still remain , how can caste be hereditary? You are avoiding the issue. You cannot answer - yes?

Oi, look at India today. Hinduism almost wiped out of India by Islam. Taj Mahal was a Shiva temple but recreated by Muslim Shah Jahan for his prostitute. Madura prison where Shri Krishna was born was almost demolished and made into a mosque. Millions had died in hands of Muslims in 400 years than they died in famine or disease in thousands of years. Islam did not bring ANYTHING good to India and it is time Hindus got up and throw away this Arabic belief out of their borders.

Hinduism wiped out by Islam? The last I checked , the hindu population was increasing from 1000CE till now. Why can't you argue with facts? Taj Mahal a brothel? Taj Mahal is a grave for Shah Jahan's wife , the King who does not know the meaning of moderation. Ha ha , Taj Mahal a brothel? You are not drunk .... are you? Your God Sri Krishna was born at the site of Madura prison and now a mosque? A God being born? Do you have Sri Krishna's birth cert or at least an attested document that Sri Krishna was born there? BTW , who were his parents?

The question that you are so scared to answer. Where did you get the figure 80 million Hindus died during the 400 years of muslim rule? You pulled it out from your ass? If I am to use your logic , Hinduism did nothing for India. Time to throw it away , yes?

No, Islam is an arabic religion. It has no place anywhere EXCEPT Saudi Arabia.

Hmm , again another argument that you pull out from your ass. If Islam is an arabic religion , how is it arabs make up only ~ 15% of its adherents? This goes to show Islam is a global religion , unlike hinduism.

FYI - We already had a University called Nandi in North India even BEFORE Islam was born (in 1th - 3th century).

What has it produced that is being used till today. Gasp!!! Nothing!!

No, I merely saying that Muslims have no rights ANYWHERE ELSE except in Saudi Arabia where their belief system came from. And that is fact. Being Islam doesn't mean that you are qualified to be Indians or demand anything from Hindus. India and South East Asia belongs to Hindus as history had shown that they have travelled far and wide and brought culture and heritage to the people living there.

You are merely extending your bigoted nature. Indians whether Hindus or Muslims qualify to be Indian nationals because that is their birthright. You are just a bigot who advocate to take away the rights of muslims in India (and kill them if they even argue about it) but shouting at the top of your voice for your rights to be respected in Malaysia. In short , you are a nutcase of a bigot who needs professional help.

SEA in history doesn't belong to Hinduism. If the then people felt they have a better alternative in Islam , Hinduism would be replaced as history shows