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Aku nak tanya pada muslim..

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Author: Truth.8       Show all posts   Read mode

Post time 16-4-2014 09:42 PM | Show all posts
Truth.8 posted on 16-4-2014 06:37 PM
read the topic from begining and you agreed with me.... why on earth want wome covering all over?? ...

wiki link is a weak link.  it can be written by anybody.  the arguments in it is coming from anti hadith arguments.  not worth for me to argue base on those arguments.
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Post time 16-4-2014 09:48 PM | Show all posts
Truth.8 posted on 16-4-2014 08:50 PM
My challenge to you : Can you provide the  Arabic words 'shaar' (hair) or 'raas' (head) in 24:31?  

'hijab' is an old Jewish tradition that infiltrated into the hadith books like many innovations that contaminated Islam through the hadith. Any student of Jewish traditions  would know that the head cover for the Jewish woman is encouraged by the Rabbis and religious leaders.
Religious Jewish women still cover their heads most of the time and especially in the synagogues, at weddings and religious festivities. This Jewish tradition is a cultural not a religious one. Hijab was observed by the women of the civilisations that preceded the Jews and was passed down to the Jewish culture.

So, the jewish practised such is a traditions. is not part of the Bibical teachings.  

What a simple challenge :
- hair : شعر
- head : رئيس

What is the issue? You now want to argue that there is no رئيس in the verse? This is where your ignorance came to the fore again. Arabic words are built from tri lateral roots. Let me give you an example
- headache : صداع   

Where is the  رئيس  in headache? You will never be able to answer because you in your ignorance think that there has got to be the word 'head' (رئيس ) in headache.

I thought I have already explained (my post #46) about tri lateral roots for the construction of arabic words. Why are you trying your best to display your lack of intelligence?

My challenge still stand : Can you provide the authoritative source(s) that the word 'khimar' in Quran24:31


does not mean 'head cover'.  

Are you not embarrassed that you continuously display your ignorance to everyone? Really thick skinned person you are. Tak tau malu. Why argue on issues that that you have no knowledge of?

Like I stated before. We muslims believe that the Israelites were once chosen by Allah. Allah's laws have already been implemented. What is the issue when such laws persist in Islam. Its a continuation of the divine message. We muslims don't have any problem with such.

Veil and headcovering is in the Old Testament as already pointed out. You must blind or simply ignored it. It is also agreed by Prof Geza Vermes a reknown academic in the field of Jesus research that head cover is mentioned in 1cor11.

Ha ha , see the difference. We muslims provide the reference to scholars and authoritative sources. You , a christian , can only provide reference from lay people like Rashad Khalifa lah , wiki islam lah. In short you are not an intelligent nor a critical person.
Last edited by sam1528 on 16-4-2014 10:02 PM

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sam1528 posted on 16-4-2014 09:48 PM
What a simple challenge :
- hair : شعر
- head : رئيس

where ? i do not find . can you pin point the hair and head :



And  tell  the  believing  women  to  reduce  [some]  of  their  vision  and  guard  their  private parts  and  not  expose  their  adornment  except  that  which  [necessarily]  appears  thereof and  to wrap  [a  portion  of]  their  headcovers  over  their  chests  and  not  expose  their adornment  except  to  their  husbands,  their  fathers,  their  husbands'  fathers,  their  sons, their  husbands'  sons,  their  brothers,  their  brothers'  sons,  their  sisters'  sons,  their women,  that  which  their  right  hands  possess,  or  those  male  attendants  having  no physical  desire,  or  children  who  are  not  yet  aware  of  the  private  aspects  of  women. And  let  them  not  stamp  their  feet  to  make  known  what  they  conceal  of  their adornment.  And  turn  to Allah in  repentance,  all  of  you,  O  believers,  that  you  might succeed.

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 Author| Post time 16-4-2014 10:18 PM | Show all posts
ibnur posted on 16-4-2014 09:42 PM
wiki link is a weak link.  it can be written by anybody.  the arguments in it is coming from anti  ...

not only wiki link but many muslims scholars plus sister in islam...if you do not agree, than something is wrong with islam and how am i going to accept islam when  many muslims do not agree each other???
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Post time 16-4-2014 10:24 PM | Show all posts
Truth.8 posted on 16-4-2014 10:18 PM
not only wiki link but many muslims scholars plus sister in islam...if you do not agree, than some ...

Truth,

If you do not want to accept Islam is not a problem to muslim.  it is your own choice.  I am here only to inform you, if you don't accept is fine.  

You are bringing argumant and facts that are not authentic no matter how long you are going to type after this.  And if anyone muslim is influenced by your arguments, it is actually they are following you and not following true islam.
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 Author| Post time 16-4-2014 10:32 PM | Show all posts
ibnur posted on 16-4-2014 10:24 PM
Truth,

If you do not want to accept Islam is not a problem to muslim.  it is your own choice.   ...
You are bringing argumant and facts that are not authentic no matter how long you are going to type after this.  And if anyone muslim is influenced by your arguments, it is actually they are following you and not following true islam.

the problem with certain muslims, they always  not agreeable each other. now you says as per your claimed  is not authentic but the others (muslims) says is fabricated or manipulated...

so,it  show so many loopholes in your religion??? but base on the research i study, I do agreed with those aganist the the covering head..... they have  provide solid proof and fact..

Last edited by Truth.8 on 16-4-2014 10:33 PM

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Post time 16-4-2014 11:12 PM | Show all posts
Truth.8 posted on 16-4-2014 10:14 PM
where ? i do not find . can you pin point the hair and head :



And  tell  the  believing  women  to  reduce  [some]  of  their  vision  and  guard  their  private parts  and  not  expose  their  adornment  except  that  which  [necessarily]  appears  thereof and  to wrap  [a  portion  of]  their  headcovers  over  their  chests  and  not  expose  their adornment  except  to  their  husbands,  their  fathers,  their  husbands'  fathers,  their  sons, their  husbands'  sons,  their  brothers,  their  brothers'  sons,  their  sisters'  sons,  their women,  that  which  their  right  hands  possess,  or  those  male  attendants  having  no physical  desire,  or  children  who  are  not  yet  aware  of  the  private  aspects  of  women. And  let  them  not  stamp  their  feet  to  make  known  what  they  conceal  of  their adornment.  And  turn  to Allah in  repentance,  all  of  you,  O  believers,  that  you  might succeed.

You are not a clever person are you? You did not read my last response did you? You are just arguing blind.

In the first place we are not talking about hair but head meaning head covering. I have stated before , you need to have a bit of intelligence. Since we are talking about head covering , automatically hair is included as almost all female on this planet have hair on their heads. This is the grammar rule of 'tagleeb' or in english , simultaneous understanding - 'synecdoche'.

Then I have already stated that arabic words are constructed with trilateral roots. 'Khimar' in Quran24:31 in arabic is

coming from the trilateral root of 'Kha Mim Ra' (خ م ر) , the active component of 'ra' , ر  , in head - 'raas' (رئيس)   is taken and joined with 'Kha' and 'mim' thus becoming head cover (the blue portion , the word 'khimar' above).

That is why I do not need to look for the word 'raas' (رئيس) because I have combined the root 'ra' (ر) with 'Kha' (خ) and 'mim' (م) thus it becoming head cover. That is why I stated , your challenge is the challenge of a person who don't know any arabic but think that semitic language is like english. You need to have the word 'head' in head cover.

Therefore the word headcover is per the 2nd line 3rd word from left in your post. This is again confirmed by 2 authoritative sources :

(1) Lane Lexicon (pg 809) :

(2) Dictionary and Glossary of the Koran by John Penrice (Adam Publishers and Distributors) , pg 45


What is the issue except that you don't know what you are talking about. Kepala sudah pusing ka? Hmm , you always kepala pusing wan. You know lah , you have very low education , form 3 also fail what. I don't expect you to know something which is beyond your capability to understand. You have reached your limit of intelligence. Cannot expect anymore from you.

You have already refuted yourself. The translation you provided is headcover per the underlined in red per your post #101. This means the headcover is extended till it cover the breasts. Ha ha , you want to pusing pusing but end up refuting yourself. This is classical 'truth.8' , always refuting himself. TQ yeah ....

You still have not answered my counter challenge. Where is the word 'raas' (رئيس) in headache? The arabic word for headache : صداع . Suddenly you have forgotten about it?

My challenge still stand : Can you provide the authoritative source(s) that the word 'khimar' in Quran24:31


Aiyoyo tambi , if you don't know a language , don't act as if you know it. Your bluff would be called out. Now you have been made to look silly.

I repeat my counter challenge if you think arabic is like english. Where is the arabic word 'raas' (رئيس) meaning head in headache? The arabic word for headache : صداع . Ha ha , suddenly you cannot answer? Why are you avoiding this issue?

Last edited by sam1528 on 17-4-2014 12:12 AM

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Post time 17-4-2014 07:24 AM From the mobile phone | Show all posts
Truth.8 posted on 16-4-2014 10:32 PM
the problem with certain muslims, they always  not agreeable each other. now you says as per you ...


Laaaa.. Berapa kali cerita pun tak faham ke? Engkau tu golongan yang engkar.  Jadi tak payah setuju atau tak setuju berkenaan hukum Islam yg dikenakan kepada muslim.

ada faham ke masih tak faham! Last edited by ibnur on 17-4-2014 07:25 AM

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Post time 17-4-2014 07:27 AM From the mobile phone | Show all posts
Only those that does not have hair on their head will say it is not wajib to cover the hair.  Because their hair is somewhere else on their body.
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sam1528 posted on 16-4-2014 11:12 PM
You are not a clever person are you? You did not read my last response did you? You are just argui ...

I am asking very simple question to pin point the quran verses on hair and head.
yes it show head covers but is says wrap  [a  portion  of], it did not says cover the  whole head.

The Quran also did not says about covering the hair, mean to cover the portion of it right to the chest.


    And  tell  the  believing  women  to  reduce  [some]  of  their  vision  and  guard  their  private parts  and  not  expose  their  adornment  except  that  which  [necessarily]  appears  thereof and  to wrap  [a  portion  of]  their  headcovers  over  their  chests  and  not  expose  their adornment  except  to  their  husbands,  their  fathers,  their  husbands'  fathers,  their  sons, their  husbands'  sons,  their  brothers,  their  brothers'  sons,  their  sisters'  sons,  their women,  that  which  their  right  hands  possess,  or  those  male  attendants  having  no physical  desire,  or  children  who  are  not  yet  aware  of  the  private  aspects  of  women. And  let  them  not  stamp  their  feet  to  make  known  what  they  conceal  of  their adornment.  And  turn  to Allah in  repentance,  all  of  you,  O  believers,  that  you  might succeed.




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ibnur posted on 17-4-2014 07:24 AM
Laaaa.. Berapa kali cerita pun tak faham ke? Engkau tu golongan yang engkar.  Jadi tak payah set ...
Laaaa.. Berapa kali cerita pun tak faham ke? Engkau tu golongan yang engkar.  Jadi tak payah setuju atau tak setuju berkenaan hukum Islam yg dikenakan kepada muslim.

ada faham ke masih tak faham!
saya golongan engkar? sedangkan saya dah bukti dengan segala copy n paste berdasarkan bukti yg kukuh..tapi kamu gagal memahami ...maka kamu golongan yg engkar

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ibnur posted on 17-4-2014 07:27 AM
Only those that does not have hair on their head will say it is not wajib to cover the hair.  Becaus ...

lame excuses...the hair roots need air and ventitlation.....dont use women an object by telling them to cover the whole head..pity them ...is not God commandement...is a men made   rules

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Post time 17-4-2014 01:37 PM | Show all posts
Truth.8 posted on 17-4-2014 12:52 PM
I am asking very simple question to pin point the quran verses on hair and head.
yes it show head covers but is says wrap  [a  portion  of], it did not says cover the  whole head.

The Quran also did not says about covering the hair, mean to cover the portion of it right to the chest.


    And  tell  the  believing  women  to  reduce  [some]  of  their  vision  and  guard  their  private parts  and  not  expose  their  adornment  except  that  which  [necessarily]  appears  thereof and  to wrap  [a  portion  of]  their  headcovers  over  their  chests  and  not  expose  their adornment  except  to  their  husbands,  their  fathers,  their  husbands'  fathers,  their  sons, their  husbands'  sons,  their  brothers,  their  brothers'  sons,  their  sisters'  sons,  their women,  that  which  their  right  hands  possess,  or  those  male  attendants  having  no physical  desire,  or  children  who  are  not  yet  aware  of  the  private  aspects  of  women. And  let  them  not  stamp  their  feet  to  make  known  what  they  conceal  of  their adornment.  And  turn  to Allah in  repentance,  all  of  you,  O  believers,  that  you  might succeed.

The problem with you is that you have very poor language skills.

Any reason why I should pinpoint 'hair' and 'head' in the Quran when we are arguing about 'head cover'? Why are you trying your best to throw red herrings in the argument? You cannot even address the point in concern - 'head cover'

Now you argument is about language semantics? Even that , your understanding is wrong.

Your contention :
wrap  [a  portion  of]  their  headcovers  means  wrap  [a  portion  of], it did not says cover the  whole head

This is confirmation that you have very poor language skills. The phrase of wrap  [a  portion  of]  their  headcovers means take a portion of the headcover and cover the breast. It certainly does not mean not all of the head is covered.

Again you are arguing about covering the hair. You are again displaying poor language skills. In any language there is a grammar rule of simultaneous understanding - 'synecdoche'. This mean that when it is mentioned covering of the head , automatically it also mean covering the hair as most people have hair on their heads. To follow your logic , covering the head means not covering the hair is absurdity to the highest degree. Imagine a person covering the head but not covering the hair. It cannot be done because it is absurd. Why are you unable to think in any intelligent manner?

You are just contradicting yourself again and again.

Can you be brave enough to answer the question? Can you provide the authoritative source(s) that the word 'khimar' in Quran24:31


does not mean headcover?



Last edited by sam1528 on 17-4-2014 01:39 PM

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sam1528 posted on 17-4-2014 01:37 PM
The problem with you is that you have very poor language skills.

Any reason why I should pinpoi ...

in your earlier responsed you mentioned not about hair but head covering. that show Allah not concern on the hair rather cover the head....in the quran which is translation it mentioned portion of it.

the portion of it :



is this portion of it:


how u explain that

The word 'khimar' in the Quran:

The word 'khimar' can be found in the Quran in 24:31 While the first basic rule of Dress Code for the Muslim women can be found in 7:26, the second rule of the dress code for women can be found in 24:31. Some Muslims quote verse 31 of sura 24 as containing the 'hijab', or head cover, by pointing to the word, khomoorihinna, (their khimars), forgetting that God already used the word 'hijab', several times in the Quran. Those who are not shackled by pre-conceptions will easily see that there is no command in 24:31 for women to cover their heads. The word 'khimar' does not mean 'hijab' nor head cover. Those who quote this verse usually add the words (head cover) and (veil) after the word 'khomoorihinna' and usually between brackets. These additions are their own words not the words of God and they are clearly added to the text to imply a meaning not found in God's words. The words of 24:31 are:

"And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and to guard their private parts and not to show their adornments except that of it which normally shows. They shall cover their cleavage with their khimar. They shall not show their adornments except in the presence of their husbands, their fathers, the fathers of their husbands, their sons, the sons of their husbands, their brothers, the sons of their brothers, the sons of their sisters, other women, their slaves, the male attendants who have no sexual desire and the children who are yet to attain awareness of womens nakedness. They shall not strike their feet so as to reveal details of their hidden ornaments. You shall repent to God all you believers, so that you may succeed." 24:31

The Arabic word khimar means cover. Any cover can be called a khimar, such as a curtain, a dress. A table cloth that covers the top of a table is a khimar. A blanket can be called a khimar and so on. The word khamr, which is used in the Quran for intoxicants, has the same root as khimar. Both words mean that which covers. The khimar covers a window, a body, a table and so on, while khamr is that which covers the mind. Traditional translators, obviously influenced by Hadith and culture, claim that khimar in 24:31 has only one meaning, and that is veil or hijab. Thus, they mislead women into believing that 24:31 commands them to cover their hair! The correct meaning of the word khimar can easily be verified by consulting any Arabic dictionary.
In 24:31 God is telling women to use their khimar (cover/garment), which could be a dress, a coat, a shawl, a shirt, a blouse, a scarf and so on, to cover their cleavage/bosoms.

Third Rule: Not to reveal any of their adornments

The third rule can also be found in 24:31. Here God commands women not to reveal their adornments (beauty spots) except what is normally apparent (face, hair, lower arms and lower legs .. etc).

" .... not to show their adornments except that of it which normally shows."

This expression may sound vague to many because they have not understood the Mercy of God. Once again, God here used this very general term in order to allow women the freedom to decide on what is shown of her body. Righteous women will always make the correct decision so as to conform to the general code of morality, and also according to the time, place and occasion.

The great wisdom of God in granting women this fexible concession can be witnessed every day and in every place. The following example demonstrats the application of this concession:

A woman attending the masjid for prayers, or attending a funeral would wish to wear fairly concervative clothes, but a woman playing sports for example would wish to wear simple light clothes that does not hinder movement.

If God did not grant this merciful concession in 24:31it would mean that all women would have to wear ientical clothes at all occasions!

The word 'zeenatahunna' (adornments) in this verse refers to the woman's beauty spots which carry a sexual connotation, examples are "thighs, breasts, back side ... etc). At the end of the verse, God tells the women not to strike with their feet to show their 'zenatahunna'. The way a woman strikes her feet while walking can expose the details of certain parts of the body.

For more detailed analysis of 24:31 please go to: Corruption of 24:31

Fourth Rule : Lengthen your Garments

"O prophet, tell your wives, your daughters and the wives of the believers that they shall lengthen their garments. This is better so that they will be recognized and not molested. God is Forgiver, Merciful." 33:59

When we reflect on the above words, we would understand the great wisdom of God. In this verse, God, deliberately said that women should lengthen their garments, but did not say how long is long. God could have said tell them to lengthen their garments to their ankles or to their mid-calf or to their knees, but He did not. God knows that we will be living in different communities and have different cultures and insists that the minor details of this dress code will be left for the people of every community to decide for themselves, as long as righteousness is always maintained.

Relaxing the Dress Code:

In the family setting, God put no hardship on the women, and permitted them to relax their dress code. This is apparent from the words of 24:31 (above). In addition, elderly women who no longer expect to get married can also relax their dress code:

"The elderly women who no longer anticipate marriage commit no error by relaxing their dress code, provided they do not flaunt their adornments, but to abstain from doing so would be better for them. God is Hearer, Knowledgeable." 24:60

Reply to those who claim that a Muslim woman should be all covered except for her face:

Many Muslim scholars have invented extreme rules for women's dress which are not found in the Quran. Some say that women should be totally covered except for her face, while others who are even more extreme, say that all women must be covered from head to toe except for two holes for the eyes to see!

1- There are no words anywhere in the Quran which command women to cover all their bodies. Those who preach such un-Quranic rules cannot find words in the Quran to justify this extremity, so they manipulate various words in 24:31 and 33:59 to justify the falsehood.

2- The fact that God says in 24:31 to specifically cover the bossom indicates clearly that there are other parts of the womans body that do not have to be covered.To elaborate on the indication of the words in 24:31, let us ponder on the following example:

Think of your house and in it you have a garden. You have gardener who comes to look after your garden. One day you tell the gardener: please water the area under the big tree and also water the back of the garden.

What does this example tell us?
It tell us that since you specified only areas to be watered, then this is a clear indication that there will be other areas in the garden that are not to be watered. If you wanted the gardener to water the whole garden you would have asked: please water the whole garden.

When we apply this example to the issue of womens dress code in the Quran, the same principle applies. If God wanted the whole body of the woman to be covered, God would not have bothered saying "cover your chest" since an overall command to cover all the body would be all that is needed to say. But since God specifies certain parts of the womans body to be covered, then there are other parts that do not have to be covered, as long as they are not beauty spots of sexual connotation and as long as righteousness in dress is maintained.

3- The command to "lengthen the garment" also proves that the woman is not commanded to be covered from head to toe. For if that was the case and women must be covered down to their toes, there would be no meaning to lengthen the garment. How can a woman lengthen a garment that is already down to the ground?

Last edited by Truth.8 on 17-4-2014 02:58 PM

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Post time 17-4-2014 05:40 PM | Show all posts
Truth.8 posted on 17-4-2014 02:49 PM
in your earlier responsed you mentioned not about hair but head covering. that show Allah not concern on the hair rather cover the head....in the quran which is translation it mentioned portion of it.

Allah not concern about hair? Ha ha , what an 'intelligent' person you are. Just how do you come to the conclusion that 'Allah not concern about hair' when this argument is about 'head cover' in Quran24:31?

Can you explain for the benefit of others just how do one cover the head without covering the hair? Your line of thinking is going from bad to absurd.

You are going around in circles. Per your post #101 as follows :
And  tell  the  believing  women  to  reduce  [some]  of  their  vision  and  guard  their  private parts  and  not  expose  their  adornment  except  that  which  [necessarily]  appears  thereof and  to wrap  [a  portion  of]  their  headcovers  over  their  chests  and  not  expose  their adornment  except  to  their  husbands,  their  fathers,  their  husbands'  fathers,  their  sons, their  husbands'  sons,  their  brothers,  their  brothers'  sons,  their  sisters'  sons,  their women,  that  which  their  right  hands  possess,  or  those  male  attendants  having  no physical  desire,  or  children  who  are  not  yet  aware  of  the  private  aspects  of  women. And  let  them  not  stamp  their  feet  to  make  known  what  they  conceal  of  their adornment.  And  turn  to Allah in  repentance,  all  of  you,  O  believers,  that  you  might succeed.

Now you on a u turn and appeal to the following :
The word 'khimar' can be found in the Quran in 24:31 While the first basic rule of Dress Code for the Muslim women can be found in 7:26, the second rule of the dress code for women can be found in 24:31. Some Muslims quote verse 31 of sura 24 as containing the 'hijab', or head cover, by pointing to the word, khomoorihinna, (their khimars), forgetting that God already used the word 'hijab', several times in the Quran. Those who are not shackled by pre-conceptions will easily see that there is no command in 24:31 for women to cover their heads. The word 'khimar' does not mean 'hijab' nor head cover. Those who quote this verse usually add the words (head cover) and (veil) after the word 'khomoorihinna' and usually between brackets. These additions are their own words not the words of God and they are clearly added to the text to imply a meaning not found in God's words. The words of 24:31 are:

You need to answer the following :
(1) How do you come to the understanding that us muslims understand hijab = head cover? Nobody stated so
(2) Look at your post #101 , is there a bracket between the word 'head cover'? Yes or no?
(3) Where is the reference of the article that confirm 'khimar' is not head cover? There is no authoritative reference

You are just arguing from your imagination. Imagination don't count. Only the lesser intelligent people (like you) argue from their imagination whereas the others prefer facts and figures.

The Arabic word khimar means cover. Any cover can be called a khimar, such as a curtain, a dress. A table cloth that covers the top of a table is a khimar. A blanket can be called a khimar and so on. The word khamr, which is used in the Quran for intoxicants, has the same root as khimar. Both words mean that which covers. The khimar covers a window, a body, a table and so on, while khamr is that which covers the mind. Traditional translators, obviously influenced by Hadith and culture, claim that khimar in 24:31 has only one meaning, and that is veil or hijab. Thus, they mislead women into believing that 24:31 commands them to cover their hair! The correct meaning of the word khimar can easily be verified by consulting any Arabic dictionary.

The dictionaries we have are as follows :
(1) Lane Lexicon (pg 809) :

(2) Dictionary and Glossary of the Koran by John Penrice (Adam Publishers and Distributors) , pg 45


The arabic dictionary we have confirm that 'khimar' is head covering.

This comes back to my question : Can you provide the authoritative source(s) that the word 'khimar' in Quran24:31


does not mean headcover?

You are unable to address the issues put forth. Yet you are just going on a copy paste spree without any understanding.

Lets see how brave you are in answering the questions. 'Truth.8' the chicken hearted


Last edited by sam1528 on 17-4-2014 05:44 PM

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Post time 17-4-2014 06:53 PM | Show all posts
Udah udah ler.....  pusing pusing asyik post yang sama jer.  Dah dia nak kata gitu, biaq pi la dia giytu.  dah memang ENGKAR.  Allah tak bagi hidayah lagi tu.  Kita dah sampaikan dah.

@sam1528
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 Author| Post time 17-4-2014 08:44 PM | Show all posts
sam1528 posted on 17-4-2014 05:40 PM
Allah not concern about hair? Ha ha , what an 'intelligent' person you are. Just how do you come t ...

...do u  understand the differences between portion and fully?
the portion of it :



is this portion of it:


how u explain that
Last edited by Truth.8 on 17-4-2014 08:48 PM

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 Author| Post time 17-4-2014 08:47 PM | Show all posts
ibnur posted on 17-4-2014 06:53 PM
Udah udah ler.....  pusing pusing asyik post yang sama jer.  Dah dia nak kata gitu, biaq pi la dia g ...
Allah tak bagi hidayah lagi tu


why the all powerful allah could  not provide hidayah?  is allah not that powerful??? when ur allah sent the so called angel to muhammad 'read"
now who is not receiving the hidayah after I have provide the fact on head covering base on the muslims scholars and others? are they all not receive hidayah too??



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Post time 17-4-2014 09:23 PM | Show all posts
Truth.8 posted on 17-4-2014 08:44 PM
...do u  understand the differences between portion and fully?
the portion of it :



is this portion of it:


how u explain that

No wonder you are the laughing stock in this forum. You are just a clown with poor communication skill.

Refer to your post #101 (bit part)
which  [necessarily]  appears  thereof and  to wrap  [a  portion  of]  their  headcovers over  their  chests  and  not  expose  their adornment  except  to  their  husbands

The context of the sentence is to wrap a portion of the headcover over the chest. In BM - sebahagian tudung tersebut menutupi dada.

It does not mean only a portion of the head is covered per your understanding. A primary 4 kid would understand such a simple sentence. How in the world do you manage to understand that only cover a portion of the head. Are you reading the article or just looking and ogling at the photo of the lady? This is terrible. How do you survive on a day to day basis?

You still have not answered my questions , per your post #112
(1) How do you come to the understanding that us muslims understand hijab = head cover? Nobody stated so
(2) Look at your post #101 , is there a bracket between the word 'head cover'? Yes or no?
(3) Where is the reference of the article that confirm 'khimar' is not head cover? There is no authoritative reference

Can you provide the authoritative source(s) that the word 'khimar' in Quran24:31


does not mean headcover?

Why are you so scared to answer?


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 Author| Post time 17-4-2014 10:58 PM | Show all posts
sam1528 posted on 17-4-2014 09:23 PM
No wonder you are the laughing stock in this forum. You are just a clown with poor communication s ...

A primary 4 kid

now i am a primary 4 kid but you a budak tadika because most muslims do agreed that is not covered totally in head.

now, I have experience when a muslims women  cover their head totally are slow in driving  and maybe very slow in thinking or in working because it all covered  compare muslims women without covering.  this is a fact, i hve seen and experiences. is nothing to do with islam but the risk by covering .  I already explained in this thread. browse thru...

another source:

Women in hijabs 'need sunlight or risk illness'

Muslim women who wear the hijab are at risk of serious illness because they do not get enough sun, doctors have warned.
They said an alarming number of women who cover their skin are suffering bone deficiencies over a lack of vitamin D.
Most of the body's vitamin D  -  which prevents rickets  -  is obtained through sunlight acting on the skin. Only a little comes from food.
Doctors told a London conference today that people with dark pigment are at risk because of "cultural reasons" and because they are less efficient at producing the vitamin.
The bone disorder rickets has now broken out in young Muslim children as babies are not getting enough calcium from mothers' breast milk.
The National Health Service is launching a campaign aimed at Muslim women, particularly Bangladeshi, Pakistani and Somalis, to encourage them to increase their vitamin D intake.
A Department of Health spokesman said: "For ethnic groups there is an increased risk of vitamin D deficiency as people with dark and pigmented skin are less efficient at making vitamin D in their skin.
"They need to spend longer outside to make similar amounts and those who wear concealing clothing are unlikely to make enough.
"Studies have shown low vitamin D levels in Asian women in the UK  -  particularly among those who cover most of their skin for cultural reasons."
The problem first came to light in Bradford, which has one of the highest Muslim populations in Britain.
Community leaders and doctors will today warn a conference in Acton that women in London are also in danger of passing vitamin deficiencies to their children. The Department of Health project  -  called Healthy Start  -  comes after studies show Muslim children lack vitamin D.
Officials are concerned it is driven by mothers who are not getting enough of the vitamin because they are fully covered by the hijab.
This is because vitamin D helps calcium get absorbed from the intestine and pushes the calcium into the bone.
The Government is calling on community leaders to warn Muslims they need more sunlight and better diets. Pregnant women are also advised to take vitamin D supplements and folic acid.
A spokeswoman said: "People may be at risk if they are South Asian, African or African-Caribbean and have low exposure to sunlight, for example if they observe Hijab or do not spend much time outside."
She said a poor diet or restricted diet such as veganism, also posed dangers. "Breastfeeding is recommended for all babies, however a baby may be at risk if breast-fed and the mother has a low vitamin D level herself."
Through the Healthy Start scheme qualifying families and pregnant women will be given vouchers for fruit and vegetables as well as milk and infant formula, plus free vitamin supplements.
One official said: "We are not interfering in a Muslim woman's right to wear the hijab, but we are stressing that we all need sunlight on our skins. If you have your head and skin covered, then you risk stopping these natural rays from topping up vital vitamins.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-469196/Women-hijabs-need-sunlight-risk-illness.html#ixzz2z9ijH0Dm



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 Author| Post time 17-4-2014 11:02 PM | Show all posts
Truth.8 posted on 15-4-2014 02:09 PM
"Among them is a group who distort the Book with                 t ...

Understanding the way                 Allah created the Human:                                                
                The human body is a                 miraculous act of creation by Allah. Every function of the                 body is placed through superior wisdom. The human body has five primary                 senses to interact with the world. These are:
                                
                1) Vision            2) Hearing            3) Smell                            4) Taste           5) Touch           
                                
                Each of these senses have                 unique sensing devices that are especially designed to accomplish their                 respective sensing functions. Sense of touch is done by the skin on                 every part of our bodies. The sensors for vision, hearing, smell and taste are                 all concentrated on one particular place, the human head.                This is for an important reason. The reason being solely the fact that                 the head is intended by Allah to be exposed to the environment.
                 
                                
               
                                
                All organs that requires to be fully exposed to                 the environment are strategically placed on the head so that it can work at its best                 performance without hindrance.
               
                In the creation of the human, Allah                 intended the human head to be completely unobstructed in order for all                 the systems to function optimally. This is how:
                                
                The Eyes
                                
                Light rays from                 reflecting scenery are to fall on the eye through an unobstructed passage                 in order to perceive the true intensity and the colour of the scenery.                 A barrier would block light. This is an important reason why the eyes are on the head, since the head                 is expected to be                 left uncovered.
                                
                Mouth & Nose -                 Breathing
                                
                The exhaled breath contains a relative humidity of 100% -                 that is, it is highly moisture rich. This moisture as well as heat has                 to diffuse into the surrounding environment and not get trapped, if it                 does, then heat and moisture would cause discomfort on the skin.                 This is a reason why nose and mouth are again placed by Allah on the                 head, so that an unobstructed passage is maintained with the                 environment, allowing diffusion of heat                 and moisture optimally.
                                
                The Ears
               
               
read more here :  http://www.quranicpath.com/misconceptions/hijab_niqab.html
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Post time 17-4-2014 11:37 PM | Show all posts
Truth.8 posted on 17-4-2014 10:58 PM
now i am a primary 4 kid but you a budak tadika because most muslims do agreed that is not covered totally in head.

now, I have experience when a muslims women  cover their head totally are slow in driving  and maybe very slow in thinking or in working because it all covered  compare muslims women without covering.  this is a fact, i hve seen and experiences. is nothing to do with islam but the risk by covering .  I already explained in this thread. browse thru...

another source:

Women in hijabs 'need sunlight or risk illness'

Muslim women who wear the hijab are at risk of serious illness because they do not get enough sun, doctors have warned.
They said an alarming number of women who cover their skin are suffering bone deficiencies over a lack of vitamin D.
Most of the body's vitamin D  -  which prevents rickets  -  is obtained through sunlight acting on the skin. Only a little comes from food.
Doctors told a London conference today that people with dark pigment are at risk because of "cultural reasons" and because they are less efficient at producing the vitamin.
The bone disorder rickets has now broken out in young Muslim children as babies are not getting enough calcium from mothers' breast milk.
The National Health Service is launching a campaign aimed at Muslim women, particularly Bangladeshi, Pakistani and Somalis, to encourage them to increase their vitamin D intake.
A Department of Health spokesman said: "For ethnic groups there is an increased risk of vitamin D deficiency as people with dark and pigmented skin are less efficient at making vitamin D in their skin.
"They need to spend longer outside to make similar amounts and those who wear concealing clothing are unlikely to make enough.
"Studies have shown low vitamin D levels in Asian women in the UK  -  particularly among those who cover most of their skin for cultural reasons."
The problem first came to light in Bradford, which has one of the highest Muslim populations in Britain.
Community leaders and doctors will today warn a conference in Acton that women in London are also in danger of passing vitamin deficiencies to their children. The Department of Health project  -  called Healthy Start  -  comes after studies show Muslim children lack vitamin D.
Officials are concerned it is driven by mothers who are not getting enough of the vitamin because they are fully covered by the hijab.
This is because vitamin D helps calcium get absorbed from the intestine and pushes the calcium into the bone.
The Government is calling on community leaders to warn Muslims they need more sunlight and better diets. Pregnant women are also advised to take vitamin D supplements and folic acid.
A spokeswoman said: "People may be at risk if they are South Asian, African or African-Caribbean and have low exposure to sunlight, for example if they observe Hijab or do not spend much time outside."
She said a poor diet or restricted diet such as veganism, also posed dangers. "Breastfeeding is recommended for all babies, however a baby may be at risk if breast-fed and the mother has a low vitamin D level herself."
Through the Healthy Start scheme qualifying families and pregnant women will be given vouchers for fruit and vegetables as well as milk and infant formula, plus free vitamin supplements.
One official said: "We are not interfering in a Muslim woman's right to wear the hijab, but we are stressing that we all need sunlight on our skins. If you have your head and skin covered, then you risk stopping these natural rays from topping up vital vitamins.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-469196/Women-hijabs-need-sunlight-risk-illness.html#ixzz2z9ijH0Dm

Ha ha , the funny part is that no one except only you understand the following
which  [necessarily]  appears  thereof and  to wrap  [a  portion  of]  their  headcovers over  their  chests  and  not  expose  their adornment  except  to  their  husbands

to be partially covering the head. I stated that a primary 4 kid would understand the sentence. Too bad , you did not understand the sentence. That makes you worse off.

So now your argument is that maybe this and that for women in headcover drive slowly lah , slow in thinking lah. What about you? No head cover but your thinking is extremely slow. I don't know how you manage to understand that the above underlined to mean cover a portion of the head.

Ha ha , now hijab cause illness? It looks like you are a sucker for conspiracy theories. What about nuns then? They have been around for centuries and they are all covered up and most of the time they are indoors in the convent. How come no such related illness? What about the people in the North / South poles all covered up due to the environment?
Simple solutions :
- Consume Vitamin D fortified drinks like milk etc
- Consume dairy producte
- Consume vitamin D supplements

Aiyoyo tambi , don't be a sucker for conspiracy theories.

You still have not answered my questions , per your post #112
(1) How do you come to the understanding that us muslims understand hijab = head cover? Nobody stated so
(2) Look at your post #101 , is there a bracket between the word 'head cover'? Yes or no?
(3) Where is the reference of the article that confirm 'khimar' is not head cover? There is no authoritative reference

Can you provide the authoritative source(s) that the word 'khimar' in Quran24:31


does not mean headcover?

Why are you so scared to answer?
Last edited by sam1528 on 17-4-2014 11:50 PM

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Post time 17-4-2014 11:48 PM | Show all posts
Truth.8 posted on 17-4-2014 11:02 PM
Understanding the way                 Allah created the Human:                                                
                The human body is a                 miraculous act of creation by Allah. Every function of the                 body is placed through superior wisdom. The human body has five primary                 senses to interact with the world. These are:
                                
                1) Vision            2) Hearing            3) Smell                            4) Taste           5) Touch           
                                
                Each of these senses have                 unique sensing devices that are especially designed to accomplish their                 respective sensing functions. Sense of touch is done by the skin on                 every part of our bodies. The sensors for vision, hearing, smell and taste are                 all concentrated on one particular place, the human head.                This is for an important reason. The reason being solely the fact that                 the head is intended by Allah to be exposed to the environment.
                 
                                
               
                                
                All organs that requires to be fully exposed to                 the environment are strategically placed on the head so that it can work at its best                 performance without hindrance.
               
                In the creation of the human, Allah                 intended the human head to be completely unobstructed in order for all                 the systems to function optimally. This is how:
                                
                The Eyes
                                
                Light rays from                 reflecting scenery are to fall on the eye through an unobstructed passage                 in order to perceive the true intensity and the colour of the scenery.                 A barrier would block light. This is an important reason why the eyes are on the head, since the head                 is expected to be                 left uncovered.
                                
                Mouth & Nose -                 Breathing
                                
                The exhaled breath contains a relative humidity of 100% -                 that is, it is highly moisture rich. This moisture as well as heat has                 to diffuse into the surrounding environment and not get trapped, if it                 does, then heat and moisture would cause discomfort on the skin.                 This is a reason why nose and mouth are again placed by Allah on the                 head, so that an unobstructed passage is maintained with the                 environment, allowing diffusion of heat                 and moisture optimally.
                                
                The Ears
               
               
read more here :  http://www.quranicpath.com/misconceptions/hijab_niqab.html

I dunno about you but any muslim lady in hijab would not have their senses of
1) Vision  
2) Hearing  
3) Smell  
4) Taste   
5) Touch
impaired

The hijab does not impair her vision. Nothing is covering her eyes unless she wants to look cool with a pair of sunglasses. The headcover does not plug the ears. The nose is not blocked in any way. The tongue is not impared and the hands are not in mittens. What is the problem of performance of these organs related to the 5 senses?

This again shows that you are not able to think intelligently.

Aieek!! Now another copy paste? What happen to your copy paste per your post#101 (in bit part) that states as follows
not  expose  their  adornment  except  that  which  [necessarily]  appears  thereof and  to wrap  [a  portion  of]  their  headcovers  over  their  chests  and  not  expose  their adornment  except  to  their  husbands

Take note , it doesn't mean partially covering the head per your understanding.

Aiyoyo tambi , looks like you are looking for an exit path to run away. How come you are so scared to answer such simple questions?

Per your post #112
(1) How do you come to the understanding that us muslims understand hijab = head cover? Nobody stated so
(2) Look at your post #101 , is there a bracket between the word 'head cover'? Yes or no?
(3) Where is the reference of the article that confirm 'khimar' is not head cover? There is no authoritative reference

Can you provide the authoritative source(s) that the word 'khimar' in Quran24:31


does not mean headcover?

Why are you so scared to answer?

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 Author| Post time 17-4-2014 11:59 PM | Show all posts
sam1528 posted on 17-4-2014 11:48 PM
I dunno about you but any muslim lady in hijab would not have their senses of
1) Vision  
2) He ...
I dunno about you but any muslim lady in hijab would not have their senses of
1) Vision  
2) Hearing  
3) Smell  
4) Taste   
5) Touch
impaired

The hijab does not impair her vision. Nothing is covering her eyes unless she wants to look cool with a pair of sunglasses. The headcover does not plug the ears. The nose is not blocked in any way. The tongue is not impared and the hands are not in mittens. What is the problem of performance of these organs related to the 5 senses?

it is your view but the article that I have forwarded already explained that muslim women in risk..that is the fact ..



.....and before I log out, here is another link for you to ponder  :  click here :  The Hijab and the Burka are not voluntary and they have nothing to do with modesty. The various Islamic coverings are motivated by fear, shame and abuse.
Last edited by Truth.8 on 18-4-2014 12:01 AM

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Post time 18-4-2014 09:47 AM | Show all posts
Truth.8 posted on 17-4-2014 11:59 PM
it is your view but the article that I have forwarded already explained that muslim women in risk..that is the fact ..



.....and before I log out, here is another link for you to ponder  :  click here :  The Hijab and the Burka are not voluntary and they have nothing to do with modesty. The various Islamic coverings are motivated by fear, shame and abuse.

Like I stated , there are very simple solutions , consume
- Vitamin D fortified drinks like milk etc
- Dairy products
- Vitamin D supplements

End of problem.

What about nuns? Don't they have the same problems?

From your post #114
The Arabic word khimar means cover. Any cover can be called a khimar, such as a curtain, a dress. A table cloth that covers the top of a table is a khimar. A blanket can be called a khimar and so on. The word khamr, which is used in the Quran for intoxicants, has the same root as khimar. Both words mean that which covers. The khimar covers a window, a body, a table and so on, while khamr is that which covers the mind. Traditional translators, obviously influenced by Hadith and culture, claim that khimar in 24:31 has only one meaning, and that is veil or hijab. Thus, they mislead women into believing that 24:31 commands them to cover their hair! The correct meaning of the word khimar can easily be verified by consulting any Arabic dictionary.

Can you now show me the dictionary reference that state 'khimar' is not head covering?

The dictionaries I posted all confirm that 'khimar' is 'head covering'.

Per your post #112
(1) How do you come to the understanding that us muslims understand hijab = head cover? Nobody stated so
(2) Look at your post #101 , is there a bracket between the word 'head cover'? Yes or no?
(3) Where is the reference of the article that confirm 'khimar' is not head cover? There is no authoritative reference

Can you provide the authoritative source(s) that the word 'khimar' in Quran24:31


does not mean headcover?

Why are you so scared to answer?
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